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View Full Version : Leaky Pelikan 30, P30 or M30?



KrazyIvan
July 23rd, 2013, 12:26 PM
I just received a Pelikan 30, M30 or P30. I can't decide which it is because I am finding conflicting info. Some sources state the P30 is the piston filler and the M30 is the cartridge filler. That makes sense to me. Other info I have read suggests the opposite. In any case, I have the piston filler version. It may even be a franken pen. The cap says "Pelikan 30 Rolled Gold - Germany" but I have seen a picture and the nib is wrong on my example.

The semi-hooded nib indicates to me that it is not typically a user removable nib but I am not sure. I operated the piston and it works fairly smooth. Just a little tight but still operable. Not Pelikan smooth as I have been accustomed to with my other Pels. It looked freshly flushed as there was condensation in the ink window. Here is where my radar started going off to a possible piston seal issue. I operated the piston and placed it to my ear and could hear some air/liquid bubbling noise coming from the piston knob when the piston was fully retracted. I decided to go ahead and ink it just to see if it would hold ink. I noticed that while I can write with it, the nib is wetter than what it should be. If I hold it nib down, ink starts to puddle close to the end of the feed in a few seconds. If I do not write with it, it will drip ink eventually. If I leave it sitting on my desk, the section will be wet with ink. I do not see any obvious cracks on the section and ink is not leaking anywhere except for the feed so I think the pen body itself is sound.

So, that long winded explanation is to ask if anyone knows how the piston comes out of this pen. I suspect it is similar to a TWSBI because I see some flat tabs adjacent to the top of the barrel just under the piston knob. Is my reasoning correct? I just want to get in and get the piston re-greased to see if the leak goes away.

Ebay image of the pen:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Black-Gold-Pelikan-M30-Piston-Filled-Fountain-Pen-F-Nib-/00/s/NTc1WDEwMDc=/z/0L0AAMXQTT9Rq1mf/$(KGrHqN,!ocFCqvlqu!9BRq1mftIww~~60_57.JPG

Jeph
July 23rd, 2013, 12:44 PM
http://www.castelloscollection.com.ar/Pelikan.html shows that same pen as an M30

http://www.ruettinger-web.de/e-pelikan-modell-p1.html Says the P30 was cartridge and the M30 was piston filler but does not show the nib. The cap does look the same though.

I don't actually have any idea though, but I have seen Pelikan pistons pulled out with the TWSBI tool. Just remember that those are supposed to be left hand threads.

whych
July 23rd, 2013, 03:40 PM
The M is for piston and P for cartridge.
The pen is an M30, rolled gold. They did 2 nib styles. This is the early style.
You pull the nib and the feed together.
First soak the pen and clean it properly to get all the old ink out. You can fill it with water and leave the whole pen in water.
To pull the nib and feed, use a toothpick with a bit of the sharp end cut off and screw it into the hole on the back of the feed and pull both the nib and feed together.
The nib thickness is on the hidden part of the nib.
The thread on the piston sleeve is left hand, so you turn it clockwise to unscrew. If you do unscrew it, don't unscrew the piston from the filler knob or else you end up with a problem aligning it all when you put it back.

If it is leaking, it could be that the piston is too high in the body and needs to screw in a bit more.

KrazyIvan
July 23rd, 2013, 04:17 PM
Thank you Jeph for that info.

Whych, thank you for the insight. On the toothpick trick am I trying to unscrew something with it? I may just try pulling the piston and staying away from the piston knob.

whych
July 23rd, 2013, 11:39 PM
On the toothpick trick am I trying to unscrew something with it?
You are using the toothpick as an aid to to help you grip/hold the feed so you can pull both nib and feed out together. Pelikan could have had a special tool to use for it, but the toothpick works just as well without damaging the feed.
(The later open nib version's feed doesn't pull out)
For the piston, look at this thread:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/234267-mk30-with-stiff-piston/
and also this one:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/238786-dismantling-a-pelikan-mksilvexa/

KrazyIvan
July 24th, 2013, 08:33 AM
On the toothpick trick am I trying to unscrew something with it?
You are using the toothpick as an aid to to help you grip/hold the feed so you can pull both nib and feed out together. Pelikan could have had a special tool to use for it, but the toothpick works just as well without damaging the feed.
(The later open nib version's feed doesn't pull out)
For the piston, look at this thread:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/234267-mk30-with-stiff-piston/
and also this one:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/238786-dismantling-a-pelikan-mksilvexa/

Thank you very much! The threads are very helpful, especially the pictures. This picture in particular, is very good:

4120

I cleaned the pen out last night and I will have to see if I have and old PC back plate in the storage shed somewhere. I used to have tons of those lying around from my PC building days.

cwent2
July 24th, 2013, 10:07 AM
twsbi wrench won't work?

KrazyIvan
July 24th, 2013, 10:49 AM
twsbi wrench won't work?

I have not tried it yet. That will be the first thing I try. I just want to have a backup if it does not work. I maybe could make something here at work. We have plenty of metal stock scrap I could use. I just don't have the pen with me for sizing. If the TWSBI wrench fails and I don't have a PC back plate, that is Plan C. :D

KrazyIvan
July 24th, 2013, 10:56 AM
Oooo, watch_art has a way of dealing with these pistons that should be fairly easy to do too:

Start at 1:40


http://youtu.be/NANQiMPpxkI

cwent2
July 24th, 2013, 11:27 AM
that looks like a twsbi 540 in the video

KrazyIvan
July 24th, 2013, 11:49 AM
that looks like a twsbi 540 in the video

Yes, it is but the wrench concept is the same and applies to the Pelikan.

cwent2
July 24th, 2013, 11:55 AM
Ah, I see clearly now......

Missed the point - did I. (Yoda style)

Cw

fountainpenkid
July 24th, 2013, 03:38 PM
Looks like the piston used in the P1 as well as the 400 (I think.)

entropydave
July 25th, 2013, 12:49 AM
The piston assembly on the P1 is friction fit (and quite difficult to remove) and different from the M30.

I have disassembled two M30s for lubrication. I found it much easier to remove the section and then lube the piston head by reaching a toothpick or paintbrush with grease up into the barrel. I used section pliers and found it easy to remove the section, once one knows that it is clockwise to loosen.

The style of these pens is a bit wan, but they write really well, like good Pelikans.

David.

KrazyIvan
July 25th, 2013, 09:36 AM
Thank you. The TWSBI wrench is too small but I have two so I may just grind one to the right size unless I can get the section off.

Ernst Bitterman
July 25th, 2013, 03:59 PM
I'm a little late to the party-- I've just had an MK10 and an M20 apart last week, and the amount of material necessary to remove from a TWSBI wrench is very small indeed, but vitally necessary (like you, I've got more than I need to keep in original shape). The point and feed just yoink out, although a little wiggling is in order, and you'd need REALLY steady hands to deliver lubricant to the piston chamber without hitting the narrows between it and the point. There's a little stud on the back of the point that helps to keep it in place and that's what resists the effort to draw the parts. There's no difference in the gross anatomy of the M20 and MK10; this picture is of the latter, but since you can't see the lack of a 14K/585 imprint on the point you can take it as exactly the same.

http://ravensmarch.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/anatomy-mk10.jpg

Since I took this, I've found a picture indicating that the section CAN be unscrewed from the barrel if some adhesive is overcome, but it sounded like a lot more work than defacing a TWSBI tool. {edit-- oh, heck, it was the second of Whych's links}

Oh, one other thing-- like the TWSBI mechanism, your life will be a lot easier if you can take it out of the pen in one piece, because getting it threaded on the proper amount takes a LOT of trial and error. Only drive the piston in the bare minimum for the wrench to pass between body and blind cap for slightly less swearing during the reassembly phase.

KrazyIvan
July 26th, 2013, 11:34 AM
Okay, so I was able to modify my TWSBI wrench and get the piston mechanism out. :D

The TWSBI wrench is about 7 mm and i filed about .5-.75 mm to get it to fit. Worked like a charm but I forgot my silicone grease. The piston is bone dry. It's a wonder it moved at all. I'll have to wait to get home so I can grease it up.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/9372546484_d342d66b9a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivan_romero/9372546484/)
Modified a #TWSBI wrench to fit a #Pelikan M30 piston mechanism. #fountainpen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivan_romero/9372546484/) by IvanRomero (http://www.flickr.com/people/ivan_romero/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7321/9369889427_5eaa3503f7_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivan_romero/9369889427/)
Pelikan M30 dissasembly (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivan_romero/9369889427/) by IvanRomero (http://www.flickr.com/people/ivan_romero/), on Flickr

cwent2
July 26th, 2013, 11:42 AM
Don't you love it when a plan comes together. I would have to bring it to work for the vise too - my son busted my vise at home. Stretched the threads on the worm section of the worm gear in the vise - doesn't know his own strength.

but i ramble

good job.

cw

whych
July 31st, 2013, 04:48 PM
Thank you Jeph for that info.

Whych, thank you for the insight. On the toothpick trick am I trying to unscrew something with it? I may just try pulling the piston and staying away from the piston knob.
If you look at Ernest's pic of the feed, you will see the hole in the feed bottom.
Screw the toothpick into the hole so it will grip the feed and pull the toothpick to get the feed out.
Once the feed starts to move, you can change to holding the nib, feed and toothpick together and pulling the whole lot out.
Doing it this way, means you don't damage the nob.
You can now grease the piston from the front, same way as you do with the M150/2xx/4xx series Pelikans.
You only need to pull the piston if there is a problem with it.

CTSteve
January 6th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Hi Guys,

My first post on the forum..

I know this is an old thread but I thought this was worth sharing. Instead of buying or creating a custom wrench simply use a metal caliper if you have one. I use a 4 inch caliper to remove pistons all the time. They are adjustable and thin enough to do the trick.

Cheers! :cheers:
Steve

KrazyIvan
February 16th, 2017, 09:10 PM
Hi Guys,

My first post on the forum..

I know this is an old thread but I thought this was worth sharing. Instead of buying or creating a custom wrench simply use a metal caliper if you have one. I use a 4 inch caliper to remove pistons all the time. They are adjustable and thin enough to do the trick.

Cheers! :cheers:
Steve

https://scontent-dft4-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/16789577_319885931740142_2147739572216266752_n.jpg

Thanks, Steve. I have so many of those TWSBI wrenches, it was not an issue.

Reviving this thread with new info. Well, I used the M30 for a bit but I ended up having to take it out of rotation. There is a crack somewhere that is allowing extra air exchange and it's leaking in the cap. I left it at that thinking I might replace the whole pen some day. As I could not find a parts pen, it sat in a pen case for the past couple of years.

Today I found that uberpens.com sells parts for these M/P Pelikan pens. You could practically build a whole pen from their parts sans the cap and nib. I have a new barrel on the way and it should be back in the rotation soon.

ceebert
April 9th, 2021, 09:58 AM
Reviving this thread with new info. Well, I used the M30 for a bit but I ended up having to take it out of rotation. There is a crack somewhere that is allowing extra air exchange and it's leaking in the cap. I left it at that thinking I might replace the whole pen some day. As I could not find a parts pen, it sat in a pen case for the past couple of years.

Today I found that uberpens.com sells parts for these M/P Pelikan pens. You could practically build a whole pen from their parts sans the cap and nib. I have a new barrel on the way and it should be back in the rotation soon.

Did it earn it’s way back?

I’ve got an M30 Pelikan (type 1) with a super stiff piston. I’ve never needed to lubricate my other 30s, so I’ve never messed with it, but this is a task that needs doing, ‘cause my M30s are blue, and this is my first black one. Needs Must and all. But I’d never pull apart an Ibis, and this isn’t that much younger. I’ve only opened an M&K 120 once. I have no idea what thin ice looks like with this particular model.

So what do you think, in through the snoot or try not to crack the back? You make it sound casual, which makes me think that you know what you’re doing. I don’t, really. I even bought a cracked 30 for the nib, so I’ve got a practice pen, but... I shattered a Mabie Todd once... I’m still scarred... the “leave it alone” folks have a point.

whych
April 9th, 2021, 10:10 AM
@ceebert
First try putting the WHOLE PEN in water and try filling unfilling the pen while immersed in water. You will probably find there is a lot of ink at the back of the piston that you will get rid of and once cleaned, the piston should be fine.

KrazyIvan
April 9th, 2021, 10:14 AM
Reviving this thread with new info. Well, I used the M30 for a bit but I ended up having to take it out of rotation. There is a crack somewhere that is allowing extra air exchange and it's leaking in the cap. I left it at that thinking I might replace the whole pen some day. As I could not find a parts pen, it sat in a pen case for the past couple of years.

Today I found that uberpens.com sells parts for these M/P Pelikan pens. You could practically build a whole pen from their parts sans the cap and nib. I have a new barrel on the way and it should be back in the rotation soon.

Did it earn it’s way back?

I’ve got an M30 Pelikan (type 1) with a super stiff piston. I’ve never needed to lubricate my other 30s, so I’ve never messed with it, but this is a task that needs doing, ‘cause my M30s are blue, and this is my first black one. Needs Must and all. But I’d never pull apart an Ibis, and this isn’t that much younger. I’ve only opened an M&K 120 once. I have no idea what thin ice looks like with this particular model.

So what do you think, in through the snoot or try not to crack the back? You make it sound casual, which makes me think that you know what you’re doing. I don’t, really. I even bought a cracked 30 for the nib, so I’ve got a practice pen, but... I shattered a Mabie Todd once... I’m still scarred... the “leave it alone” folks have a point.

Yes! It stopped leaking but I have not used it in a while.