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Thread: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

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    Member Shimmershadow's Avatar
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    Unhappy Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I just got a Raymay DaVinci planner, and it uses the very popular Tomoe River paper. I do like the feel of the paper, the color, the way it writes...the dry time leaves a little to be desired, but it's not a deal-breaker. What DOES seem to be a big problem is that I can't seem to figure out the right ink to use on it. Ghosting I can cope with. Bleed-through? Not so much. Even with an EF nib and a light touch, I'm having some problems, and it's breaking my heart. I wanted to love this planner set-up so, so much, and I'm starting to feel like I might have just wasted a goodly chunk of change. I know the paper is thin, it's meant to be thin, and I wanted it because it was thin. I was skeptical on how functional it would really be, but I kept seeing so many reviews of how fantastic it was, and how well it took ink without much issue for being so thin. Now I'm just sad and aggravated, but I'm determined to make this work out somehow, even if I have to use a *gasp* rollerball.

    So I have to ask, if you are a Tomoe River fan, what pens and inks do you use on your paper that seem to work the best? Give unto me your suggestions.
    "Feri ando payi sitsholpe te nauyas"
    ("It was in the water that we learned to swim")

    Lovara saying

    “She wore a gown the color of storms, shadows, and rain and a necklace of broken promises and regrets.”
    ― Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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    Senior Member cwent2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I have used Tomoe River paper from paper for fountain pens in the pad and journal form, the only time I experienced bleed-through is when I let a broad nib sit in one place while I was in thought else where and did not realize the nib was still in contact with the paper. I have used Diamine, Montblanc, J. Herban and Noodlers inks with no bleed through. Nib sizes from fine to broad.

    Unless Raymay DaVinci Tomoe River is of a different quality, I do not understand why you are having issues.
    Cw



    “Life is short, Break the Rules.
    Forgive quickly, Kiss SLOWLY.
    Love truly. Laugh uncontrollably
    And never regret ANYTHING
    That makes you smile.”
    ― Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I am not a Tomoe River fan, but I do have some of the loose paper which I use for letter-writing. I find that ink seems to show through to the other side, no matter what. So, I either use both sides and live with the show-through, or I only write on one side of a page. I guess with a planner it's harder to use one side of the page, though. The show-through will be a lot milder with an F or EF nib and a less saturated ink.

    I'm thinking Quink Blue with a dry fine nib. Or R&K Salix/Scabiosa, which are mild iron gall inks. Or one of the lighter J. Herbins -- lots to choose from there. Do you like gray? A nice light gray like Cacao du Brésil or Pilot Iroshizuku Kiri-same often looks very pencil-like, so I can see that working well. I often use Kiri-same with a fine nib, and it's legible.

    I'm sure you'll find something that works; it's just a little discouraging at first.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmershadow View Post
    I just got a Raymay DaVinci planner, and it uses the very popular Tomoe River paper. I do like the feel of the paper, the color, the way it writes...the dry time leaves a little to be desired, but it's not a deal-breaker. What DOES seem to be a big problem is that I can't seem to figure out the right ink to use on it. Ghosting I can cope with. Bleed-through? Not so much. Even with an EF nib and a light touch, I'm having some problems, and it's breaking my heart. I wanted to love this planner set-up so, so much, and I'm starting to feel like I might have just wasted a goodly chunk of change. I know the paper is thin, it's meant to be thin, and I wanted it because it was thin. I was skeptical on how functional it would really be, but I kept seeing so many reviews of how fantastic it was, and how well it took ink without much issue for being so thin. Now I'm just sad and aggravated, but I'm determined to make this work out somehow, even if I have to use a *gasp* rollerball.

    So I have to ask, if you are a Tomoe River fan, what pens and inks do you use on your paper that seem to work the best? Give unto me your suggestions.
    That's weird. All I use is Tomoe River paper and nothing bleeds through it. Nothing. Not in my big italics, not when I flex. You get lots of see through, shadow, whatever you want to call it. But I've never seen anything bleed. That's bizarre! I use noodlers, Montblanc, Diamine, J Hebrin, etc. Can you post examples??

    There have been posts talking about there being multiple qualities of Tomoe River, not all up to the same standard. I wonder if that's the issue? I use the Hobonichi planner and nothing bleeds through.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I can make the Hobonichi bleed but it's not easy
    If the Hobonichi bleeds everything will
    Tom
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I'm not familiar with RayMay, but I am quite familiar with Tomoe River. It's one of my favorite papers. I'm really surprised by your experience. I've never gotten any bleed-through with Tomoe River and, like tandaina, I often use very broad italic nibs and I prefer very wet inks. The writing does show through on the opposite page, but it's an unobtrusive shadow and has never been a problem in my Hobonichi diary or in my Seven Seas journal.

    If you're having bleed-through issues, you could choose as fine a nib as you've got and experiment with a very dry ink like Pelikan Blue-black or R&K Salix. I've also had good results on poor quality paper with Platinum Blue-black. But I'm dismayed that you'd have to limit your nibs and inks like that. I wonder if RayMay perhaps uses a different "grade" of Tomoe River that is less fountain pen-friendly.

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    Senior Member sharmon202's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Never had a bleed thru on TR paper, any ink. I usually use fine but do medium sometimes. Is it a different source or sub quality TR?
    Sandy
    We don't know what we don't know

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    Member Shimmershadow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I will see if I can get some examples up. I was checking it to see if there is any way I could be mistaking it for just average show through, as I'm pretty spoiled for that with Rhodia, but nope, there is some definite ink seepage. The only thing I've been able to use so far is Noodler's Polar Blue, but it would be such a shame to have to limit myself to that. I do like gray, so I may do as Laura N suggests and pick some up.
    "Feri ando payi sitsholpe te nauyas"
    ("It was in the water that we learned to swim")

    Lovara saying

    “She wore a gown the color of storms, shadows, and rain and a necklace of broken promises and regrets.”
    ― Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Count me as another surprised TR paper user. The only ink that ghosted after a couple of, few days was the original KWZ Blue #3 (now reformulated not to ghost and named EtherX Blue), and that ink (my bottle of it) ghosts on all papers. But I wantonly use various inks with various nib sizes without any problems. Must be a different grade of TR paper.

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Who makes/sells this EtherX never heard of the brand :-)
    Tom
    @silverbreeze
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    77 Meadowpark Ave North
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    Member Shimmershadow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I may also try ordering insert paper separately and experimenting. The grade may indeed be different. The stuff I have now is the stuff that came with the planner.
    "Feri ando payi sitsholpe te nauyas"
    ("It was in the water that we learned to swim")

    Lovara saying

    “She wore a gown the color of storms, shadows, and rain and a necklace of broken promises and regrets.”
    ― Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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    Senior Member reprieve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    If you enjoy grey inks, try Graf von Faber Castell Stone Grey. It's a drier ink so it shouldn't bleed as much, especially in a fine nib. It's a medium graphite grey and it's water-resistant to boot.

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    I second the Stone Grey ink
    Tom
    @silverbreeze
    ---
    Forgive any ignorance on my part.
    Any stupidity is my brain not being malleable enough to understand
    ===
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    77 Meadowpark Ave North
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmershadow View Post
    I just got a Raymay DaVinci planner, and it uses the very popular Tomoe River paper. I do like the feel of the paper, the color, the way it writes...the dry time leaves a little to be desired, but it's not a deal-breaker. What DOES seem to be a big problem is that I can't seem to figure out the right ink to use on it. Ghosting I can cope with. Bleed-through? Not so much. Even with an EF nib and a light touch, I'm having some problems, and it's breaking my heart. I wanted to love this planner set-up so, so much, and I'm starting to feel like I might have just wasted a goodly chunk of change. I know the paper is thin, it's meant to be thin, and I wanted it because it was thin. I was skeptical on how functional it would really be, but I kept seeing so many reviews of how fantastic it was, and how well it took ink without much issue for being so thin. Now I'm just sad and aggravated, but I'm determined to make this work out somehow, even if I have to use a *gasp* rollerball.

    So I have to ask, if you are a Tomoe River fan, what pens and inks do you use on your paper that seem to work the best? Give unto me your suggestions.
    That's weird. All I use is Tomoe River paper and nothing bleeds through it. Nothing. Not in my big italics, not when I flex. You get lots of see through, shadow, whatever you want to call it. But I've never seen anything bleed. That's bizarre! I use noodlers, Montblanc, Diamine, J Hebrin, etc. Can you post examples??

    There have been posts talking about there being multiple qualities of Tomoe River, not all up to the same standard. I wonder if that's the issue? I use the Hobonichi planner and nothing bleeds through.
    I, too, use every type of nib and every shade of ink and have barely had see through, let alone bleed through. Has someone sold you a knock-off?
    To continue to diminish the place of the handwritten in our lives is to diminish, in a small but real way, our humanity. Philip Hensher

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Hobonichi user here also. Show through yes, but takes a lot of ink to create bleed through.
    Really good paper and smooth.

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Not all "Tomoe River" paper is the same specification. Read this item, specifically the posts around response 11 or 12, for more information.

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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Strange. I use the Da Vinci RayMay filler paper, the packs you can get in 100 sheets, of plain or lined cream paper, for my university notes (as it fits in my Filofax or my Franklin Covey binders), and it's pretty much identical to the A4 Tomoe River sheets I have, or the Hobonichi paper (except, you know, cream coloured). I usually use F or XF Lamy Safaris and either Namiki, Rohrer and Klingner, or J. Herbin inks, and not ever a problem with it. I've never had bleedthrough, even when I space out and leave the nib pressed to the paper for too long. Maybe there is a difference between the paper the binders come with and the other inserts, because I've never had this happen with the inserts I have.

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    KWZ (Konrad) in Warsaw. I met him at the Poland Pen Show last April (btw, plug for the Poland Pen Show (Katowice) coming up April 11 & 12), and I loved his waterproof Blue #3 and mentioned in on FPN. That generated huge interest in his inks (many inks), so he renamed Blue #3 "EtherX Blue." There are many threads there. I thought I had mentioned it here, but obviously that was an oversight on my part. Oops.

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    Member Shimmershadow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Blarrrgh. Well, it looks like I somehow might've gotten a bad batch of the TR then...I wonder if JetPens will be able to help out at all. For those who requested, here are some pics of what I was talking about. (And because I cannot seem to get pics to work today, here's links.)

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByO...ew?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByO...ew?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByO...ew?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByO...ew?usp=sharing

    Not life-threatening by any means, but it does mean that my planner is currently not FP-friendly. It might not even be anything other than pencil friendly, I haven't experimented enough to be sure. Inks used were Diamine "Tyrian Purple", Noodler's "mass 54th" and Noodler's "Polar Blue"; pens were a Platinum Preppy F, Lamy Vista EF, and a Sheaffer #5. again, I know that TR is thin, but this is definitely unlike anything I've seen anyone else post as far as their TR experiences go.
    "Feri ando payi sitsholpe te nauyas"
    ("It was in the water that we learned to swim")

    Lovara saying

    “She wore a gown the color of storms, shadows, and rain and a necklace of broken promises and regrets.”
    ― Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

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    Senior Member sharmon202's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cry Me A Tomoe River (or, Thin Paper Blues)

    Technically may not be a "bad" batch of TR but that manufacturer has different specs OR poor quality control. I would contact the planner company and complain if for no other reason than to let them know what you received. If you get a response you will have some clue as to what the problem is and the character of the vendors.
    Good luck.
    Sandy
    We don't know what we don't know

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