Question about VAT for US residents

[Neo]

From personal experience, I have never paid VAT on anything I have purchased from Euro zone nations.

Thank you, Sith Lord.

[tandaina]

From personal experience, I have never paid VAT on anything I have purchased from Euro zone nations.

Same here. I buy quite a few vintage German pens from places like Martini Auctions and they clearly state that VAT will be charged to EU residents. As a US resident I have *never* been charged VAT.

[Neo]

From personal experience, I have never paid VAT on anything I have purchased from Euro zone nations.

Same here. I buy quite a few vintage German pens from places like Martini Auctions and they clearly state that VAT will be charged to EU residents. As a US resident I have *never* been charged VAT.

Thank you, Tandaina.

[earthdawn]

Here is a copy of my receipt from Akkerman in the Netherlands.... You can see it states no VAT will be added

_______________________________
Order summary

Dear XXXX,

P.W. Akkerman B.V. has received the following order with Order number 2549100_00443

Article Description Quantity Price Total price
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 23 Bekakt Haags 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 13 Simplisties Violet 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 10 Akkerman IJzer-Galnoten bl/zw 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
no VAT will be added
shipping cost (United States) € 20,00
Total price € 60,92
Bedankt voor uw bestelling, wij zullen uw order zo spoedig mogelijk afhandelen. Indien u heeft gekozen voor 'Vooruitbetalen' zullen wij uw bestelling versturen als u het factuurbedrag op onze rekening heeft overgemaakt.
ING 14109 t.g.v. P.W. Akkerman B.V. Den Haag


If you have chosen to pay in advance through your bank, please use the following details and ad in the description box your order number.

_____________________________

Also, if you look at the link below for Cult Pens you can see they clearly display 2 prices... those with VAT and those without, for people residing outside the EU

http://www.cultpens.com/i/q/PK42928/...r-fountain-pen

[Chrissy]

That is exactly how it should be done

[Neo]

Here is a copy of my receipt from Akkerman in the Netherlands.... You can see it states no VAT will be added

_______________________________
Order summary

Dear XXXX,

P.W. Akkerman B.V. has received the following order with Order number 2549100_00443

Article Description Quantity Price Total price
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 23 Bekakt Haags 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 13 Simplisties Violet 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
AkkInkt000 Akkerman Jubileum Vulpeninkt, kleur 10 Akkerman IJzer-Galnoten bl/zw 1 € 13,64 € 13,64
no VAT will be added
shipping cost (United States) € 20,00
Total price € 60,92
Bedankt voor uw bestelling, wij zullen uw order zo spoedig mogelijk afhandelen. Indien u heeft gekozen voor 'Vooruitbetalen' zullen wij uw bestelling versturen als u het factuurbedrag op onze rekening heeft overgemaakt.
ING 14109 t.g.v. P.W. Akkerman B.V. Den Haag


If you have chosen to pay in advance through your bank, please use the following details and ad in the description box your order number.

_____________________________

Also, if you look at the link below for Cult Pens you can see they clearly display 2 prices... those with VAT and those without, for people residing outside the EU

http://www.cultpens.com/i/q/PK42928/...r-fountain-pen

Thank you, Earthdawn. This is how I remember Cultpens doing things also.

[Fountainbel]

Hi fountain pen friends !
Werner asked me to post the following message from Conid on the board.
Note I'm only the messenger,so please contact Conid directly if you should have any complementary questions.
Best regards, Francis


Dear Conid customers !
There is a lot going on on the boards about the fact Conid includes the VAT for non European customers, and we do understand.
We were initially briefed by the Belgian tax authorities that Belgian VAT needs to be charged for "abroad 'Business to customer sales", at least when no export documents are provided, hence no custom import duties are paid at the customers end.
This implies that the VAT can be eliminated when CONID provides these export documents.
However providing these export documents implies automatically the customer will always have to pay custom import duties in his/her country.
As from now on CONID will always provide the necessary import documents, hence the Belgian VAT will not be charged for non EU customers.
As what concerns the already shipped orders , we are unfortunately not able to refund the VAT, as it has been already paid to the Belgian tax authorities
However we just started negotiations with the Belgian tax authorities to see if the cases can be reopened and the VAT can be recuperated.
If these negotiations end positively, it would however imply that the customer has to prove he/she paid effectively the import duties at his/her side.
So in case the refund negotiations with the Belgian tax authorities end positive, only customers which can prove they paid custom import duties in their country can apply for a refund.
We are very sorry for the confusion we caused, and hope to solve it in our mutual benefit
Please note that Conid is committed to work closely with the carrier and the Belgian tax authorities to clarify and solve this issue.
We will surely keep you updated.
Kind regards,
Werner

[Neo]

Hi fountain pen friends !
Werner asked me to post the following message from Conid on the board.
Note I'm only the messenger,so please contact Conid directly if you should have any complementary questions.
Best regards, Francis


Dear Conid customers !
There is a lot going on on the boards about the fact Conid includes the VAT for non European customers, and we do understand.
We were initially briefed by the Belgian tax authorities that Belgian VAT needs to be charged for "abroad 'Business to customer sales", at least when no export documents are provided, hence no custom import duties are paid at the customers end.
This implies that the VAT can be eliminated when CONID provides these export documents.
However providing these export documents implies automatically the customer will always have to pay custom import duties in his/her country.
As from now on CONID will always provide the necessary import documents, hence the Belgian VAT will not be charged for non EU customers.
As what concerns the already shipped orders , we are unfortunately not able to refund the VAT, as it has been already paid to the Belgian tax authorities
However we just started negotiations with the Belgian tax authorities to see if the cases can be reopened and the VAT can be recuperated.
If these negotiations end positively, it would however imply that the customer has to prove he/she paid effectively the import duties at his/her side.
So in case the refund negotiations with the Belgian tax authorities end positive, only customers which can prove they paid custom import duties in their country can apply for a refund.
We are very sorry for the confusion we caused, and hope to solve it in our mutual benefit
Please note that Conid is committed to work closely with the carrier and the Belgian tax authorities to clarify and solve this issue.
We will surely keep you updated.
Kind regards,
Werner

I understand you are only the messenger, but can you provide some documentation from your country's tax authority to support this statement? This seems at odds with how many other EU country based businesses operate.

In addition, I have contacted Conid directly and was ignored until the credit card company did a chargeback to your company. Werner has not responded in almost a week to my last request for supporting documentation.

Just my two cents, I know that it is a risky expense to refund customers before your refund comes in from the tax authority. However, from a customer service standpoint, it would be better to make things right for the non-EU buyers of your products sooner rather than later. After all, although good will does not show up on the ledger as a column, it does have impact on the company.

[rpsyed]

I don't know anything about VAT law or how it differs from country to country, but I know that as a US resident when I purchased a Romillo that was shipped from Spain, I did not have to pay either VAT nor import duties. That is the only time I've ever ordered anything from outside the US, but I thought that was the norm for US customers buying from a EU based business?

I always assumed the prices on Conid's site were without VAT. If the prices include VAT and it will now be deducted from non-EU customers, then the pens are much better deal (at least for non-EU customers).

[Robert]

I don't know anything about VAT law or how it differs from country to country, but I know that as a US resident when I purchased a Romillo that was shipped from Spain, I did not have to pay either VAT nor import duties.

I've ordered pens from Japan, UK, Germany and Italy and was never charged VAT. I was charged customs duty on an expensive pen from Italy - about $20.00 on a pen costing almost $500.00 - - no biggy there. The odd thing was that I was billed U.S. customs charges on the Italian pen a week or two *after* delivery by the carrier, Federal Express.

[Neo]

I don't know anything about VAT law or how it differs from country to country, but I know that as a US resident when I purchased a Romillo that was shipped from Spain, I did not have to pay either VAT nor import duties.

I've ordered pens from Japan, UK, Germany and Italy and was never charged VAT. I was charged customs duty on an expensive pen from Italy - about $20.00 on a pen costing almost $500.00 - - no biggy there. The odd thing was that I was billed U.S. customs charges on the Italian pen a week or two *after* delivery by the carrier, Federal Express.

And the rate appears to be well BELOW the 21% that is charged in Belgium.

[Chrissy]

US buyers buy pens from many sellers throughout Europe, without paying VAT, and they never have to prove that they have paid import taxes, because they are rarely charged any.

[tandaina]

US buyers buy pens from many sellers throughout Europe, without paying VAT, and they never have to prove that they have paid import taxes, because they are rarely charged any.

Yup, this. Import taxes have absolutely zero to do with VAT. VAT is charged within Europe, import taxes are the purview of each country and if a country doesn't want to bother with them that doesn't affect the fact that VAT should not be collected outside the EU. I'm afraid Conid's response makes me lose a great deal of respect for them. Essentially their response says: we were too lazy to do things properly, and our previous customers are out of luck, but someone stirred up trouble with the government so from now on we'll do it right because you made us. Egads.

I hate to say this but whether or not they can get the VAT back from the government is irrelevant. If you collected tax improperly you owe your customers a refund out of your own pocket if necessary. Those customers have a right to demand that.

[Chrissy]

Yup, this. Import taxes have absolutely zero to do with VAT. VAT is charged within Europe, import taxes are the purview of each country and if a country doesn't want to bother with them that doesn't affect the fact that VAT should not be collected outside the EU. I'm afraid Conid's response makes me lose a great deal of respect for them. Essentially their response says: we were too lazy to do things properly, and our previous customers are out of luck, but someone stirred up trouble with the government so from now on we'll do it right because you made us. Egads.

I hate to say this but whether or not they can get the VAT back from the government is irrelevant. If you collected tax improperly you owe your customers a refund out of your own pocket if necessary. Those customers have a right to demand that.

Very well said!

[Neo]

Yup, this. Import taxes have absolutely zero to do with VAT. VAT is charged within Europe, import taxes are the purview of each country and if a country doesn't want to bother with them that doesn't affect the fact that VAT should not be collected outside the EU. I'm afraid Conid's response makes me lose a great deal of respect for them. Essentially their response says: we were too lazy to do things properly, and our previous customers are out of luck, but someone stirred up trouble with the government so from now on we'll do it right because you made us. Egads.

I hate to say this but whether or not they can get the VAT back from the government is irrelevant. If you collected tax improperly you owe your customers a refund out of your own pocket if necessary. Those customers have a right to demand that.

Very well said!

Thank you to both of you for the concurrence.

[cwent2]

For what it is worth as a consumer, after reading Conid's response I would be not purchase a pen from their company.

And evidently Conid could care less as to the future purchases or lack there of from this forum.

Frankly their attitude towards resolving Neo's issue is sad

[Neo]

I'm still waiting for the credit card company and PayPal to make their final decision on this case, and as I've already waited for Werner to respond for almost 2 months, it's only fair that I am patient with them as I didn't open the case that long ago.

[Neo]

I have contacted Conid directly and was ignored until the credit card company did a chargeback to your company. Werner has not responded in almost a week to my last request for supporting documentation.

It would only be fair to mention that Werner reached out today to update me that he has an appointment with the tax authorities later this week. So, hopefully he would be getting some guidance soon as to what the next steps should be.

[Fountainbel]

Dear fountain pen friends,
Werner asked me to post the message below.
It looks the issue will be solved shortly, and i'm very happy with it !
Best regards, Francis



Dear CONID Customers,

We are pleased to come back to you with good news!

We have been questioned about the VAT that we have charged to all our customers, even for our Non – EU customers as we were told to do by legal authorities. This charged VAT is systematically declared at our end as such in all our files and we can ensure you of the transparency of all these transactions .
The raised concerns about CONID making profit charging our Non – EU Customers with the VAT is not justified as these were systematically declared and paid to the Belgium Taxes department.

The rightful concerns from some of our observant customers has challenged us to see what went wrong.

We now not only went for a face to face meeting with the Belgian Customs representative, but even with the Belgian Taxes department.
So finally we hope to have the full picture!
Favorable result is that the wrongly included VAT for Non EU shipments - which we already transferred to the tax office - will be refunded to our account.

We humbly ask you to excuse us for the inconvenience we caused!
We are pleased to say that we will reimburse to all involved for this inappropriatly charged Belgium VAT.
A personal email will be sent in order to arrange the reimbursement correctly!

We will need to revise our website as well and indicate all details of the Belgium VAT appliances and the Non EU shipping.

Thanks again for those who pointed us to the problem!

By putting this problem finally to bed, we sincerely hope our relationship for the future will be strengthened.


Kind regards,

Werner

[Chrissy]

It's good to know that the eventual outcome will be the correct one.

Well done Neo for highlighting this problem.