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Thread: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

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    Default Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Hi!

    I'm a complete newbie in this forum and to fountain pens, so if I'm breaking any rules or making any social faux-pas, sorry about that in advance.

    I've bought and used several cheaper fountain pens (about $15), and wasn't really impressed about the performance (uneven ink and other technical issues). But then I've tried my dads old Montblanc 262, which I really liked. The thing is, I don't want to use it for work, because I'm afraid of losing it or breaking it (I don't know if it's worth a lot, but it has tremendous sentimental value). I wanted to buy a similar one, but found out they are really expensive (about $100?). And losing a $100+ pen now and then at work and replacing, isn't within my budget. So my questions are:

    1) Is there a noticeable difference in performance between my cheap fountain pens and a Lamy safari or other pens, below $50.
    2) If you are only looking for functionality is there any value buying a $100 fountain pen, except for "feel" and design.


    EDIT:
    Thanks for all your fast and insightful replies. I always find it fascinating when people share their personal experiences and perspectives.

    I think I have to clarify some points. I want to use a fountain pen because:
    * I like the "feel" when I write with it, everything from the scratching sound on the paper, the smell of the ink, how the ink soaks up into the paper etc.
    * I like how fountain pen writing looks, I find that kind of text more expressive and interesting to look at.
    So it's not a pure issue of "putting ink to paper", then a ballpoint or gel pen is perhaps a more obvious choice.

    I should perhaps also mention I'm interested in calligraphy, but I'm going to get other pens for that, so that's another issue. What I'm looking for with this this thread is a "workhorse", where I still can enjoy the feel of the fountain pen, without to much hassle and not not to go overboard with the pricing of the pen. (I'm a teacher, pens have a way of disappearing around colleagues and students.)
    Last edited by spoon; May 10th, 2015 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    1 - Sometimes
    2 - Truthfully? Not really.

    At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. A $2 Pilot Varsity satisfies that function very well. I've never found a bad one.

    They're pretty boring though, and not very attractive. There are some things that are related to writing that cost extra - from piston mechanisms to "feel" of the nib. Mostly though, it's aesthetics. The material the pen is made out of, the way it feels in your hand (size and whatnot), and the way it looks are the big draws for me.
    Last edited by dneal; May 9th, 2015 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    1) I think you answered your own question when describing the issues you've had with your cheap pens. Having said that more expensive pens can have issues (just not as often).

    2) what dneal said.

    You'll get lots of suggestions on here if you define a budget and any preferences for nib etc. Give it a go.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    1. I think so.

    2. I think so. But I don't look at fountain pens as just a thing to put marks on paper. I suppose I get a certain amount of enjoyment from using a nice writing instrument. People vary in that. I look at cars as mere transportation, and as a necessity rather than a pleasure, but my husband really knows cars and he really cares what he drives. Some people will happily eat any type of food, while others are gourmets. Some people drink whatever beer is on sale or is handed to them, while others enjoy making their own beer and trying interesting micro-brews. Etc. It just depends how much you care about a particular thing.

    To be honest, it really doesn't sound like fountain pens are that big a deal to you. And that's smart -- you'll save a lot of money. If the primary issue is finding something reliable that you aren't going to care about losing or breaking, the Pilot Varsity suggestion is a good one. You're not going to replicate the experience of a vintage MB with a Lamy Safari anyway. I say that even though I enjoy Safaris very much. It's still apples and oranges.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Sometimes a more expensive pen can be far more enjoyable than a less expensive one but it really depends on the individual pen and user. Also, I try to put fountain pen prices in perspective; what is more expensive, the fountain pen or your watch or phone or shoes or ...

    I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

    Try to put things in perspective, for costs, for risk, for enjoyment.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Counting only modern pens, and leaving vintage ones as a topic for another time, my favorite pens to write with cost me in a range from about $80 to about $160. That's based on the total feel of writing with them. Because these prices were actually fairly substantial discounts, I ended up tweaking the nibs on some of them myself. Sometimes you can greatly improve the performance of a cheaper pen with some simple adjustments and cleaning as well. You don't mention which specific cheaper pens you have.

    I was previously quite satisfied with a number of pens costing me between $4 and $40. If I had never tried the more expensive ones, I probably would not be any less happy for not knowing what I was missing (most of which is down to better nib quality).

    I've never reached $200 for a single pen, and probably will not. If I'm missing something at the $300, $500, or $some-other level, I'm not going to worry about it.
    Last edited by Kaputnik; May 9th, 2015 at 05:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    1. Between inexpensive pens that work, there isn't much difference. Most of the difference is in the percentage that will arrive at your door ready to write. Beyond that, some pens seem to dry out faster than others, but I haven't detected any dollar amount that guarantees they won't dry out.

    2. You can get excellent nibs for under $100. If you pay more than $100, you are looking at feel, design, materials, and manufacturer support at least on new pens.

    However, you have cheap pens that don't work well and an expensive pen that does. You don't want to use the expensive pen at work and don't want to spend too much on a pen you might lose. I would say that increasing your budget by $20-30 and buying from reputable manufacturers will increase the chance that your next pen is better than what you have experienced, but it's no guarantee. And only the Montblanc 262 will write exactly like a Montblanc 262, and it's a unique item, so if you think there is any chance that nothing else will satisfy you and will lead to a chain of inexpensive pens you think fall short, you may as well save up for a spare and simply be more careful with items you use at work (if you can, I don't know if you are construction worker or scuba diver or stuntperson or something where such a pen is in constant danger.)

    You mentioned the Lamy Safari. I have had good luck with all of my Lamy pens, but you can get a bad one here and there like any other pen.

    I am assuming you don't want to get into puttering around with the nibs and feeds on your unimpressive pens, but that's another way to improve the overall experience with your collection, as long as your pens only have minor issues.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper.
    I know what you are saying, but that is a reductionist view of a complex situation. If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify. I would flip it around to incorporate more of the relevant complexities in the human equation. At the beginning of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. At the end of the day it, along with the choice of ink to use, was a way of adding joy to the otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper. Which brings us back to the OP's question in a different way. Can you achieve a similar amount of joy with inexpensive fountain pens? I think yes, but it's not a question of price, rather of judicious selection, both for how well they are designed and built despite their low price and for how they "fit" the individual's preferences. Any fountain pen, at any price point, may need adjustment to reach its potential. People are often accepting of this with cheap fountain pens, annoyed by it with expensive ones.
    Last edited by mhosea; May 9th, 2015 at 07:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify.
    Not really. I've used them ever since I had to copy stuff off a blackboard. They could be bought for pocket-money prices and for no more than any other refillable pen. To this day, I find them as practical and convenient as anything else. Then again, your

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper
    is completely alien to me. To me, everything about writing is a wonderful thing and always a fascinating, deeply engaging activity, whether it's a sonnet or a shopping list that's going round my head. And putting ink to paper is the physical complement to that mental engagement. A good pen does indeed add to that, but a rubbish pen - for me, that would be any biro or rollerball - wouldn't actually take anything away, still less pull it into mundanity.

    To the original poster, a fountain pen is a simple thing, so there's no particular reason for a pen that works well to cost a lot. Sometimes cheaper pens get slated because people think abstemious ink flow is a fault (to me, it's an asset) or because they can't hold a nib properly (particularly with stubs, italics and so on). But sometimes cheaper pens can be a bit rubbish, like anything else.

    I have a pen that's twice your hundred dollars. It feels more sensuous and looks more elegant than my other pens. But I bought it because it seduced me, not because I thought it would be better between the sheets.

    Then again, I would always choose my seven-dollar Pilot Plumix over any pen that didn't have an italic nib, no matter how expensive, as the Plumix would, for me, be a vastly superior pen and a greater pleasure to write with - which is exactly the point mhosea goes on to make.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper.
    I know what you are saying, but that is a reductionist view of a complex situation. If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify. I would flip it around to incorporate more of the relevant complexities in the human equation. At the beginning of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. At the end of the day it, along with the choice of ink to use, was a way of adding joy to the otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper. Which brings us back to the OP's question in a different way. Can you achieve a similar amount of joy with inexpensive fountain pens? I think yes, but it's not a question of price, rather of judicious selection, both for how well they are designed and built despite their low price and for how they "fit" the individual's preferences. Any fountain pen, at any price point, may need adjustment to reach its potential. People are often accepting of this with cheap fountain pens, annoyed by it with expensive ones.
    "At the end of the day", or "when all things are considered"; I'm talking about the utility of the thing. Its intrinsic purpose.

    A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.
    Functionality is a non-issue, unless we need the pen to have a glassbreaker on it or something. I think the OP is probably interested in something that performs more or less like the Montblanc that he knows he likes. So you would recommend a Pilot Varsity then as something reminiscent of the Montblanc performance-wise?
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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.
    Functionality is a non-issue, unless we need the pen to have a glassbreaker on it or something. I think the OP is probably interested in something that performs more or less like the Montblanc that he knows he likes. So you would recommend a Pilot Varsity then as something reminiscent of the Montblanc performance-wise?
    How can it be a non-issue if it is specifically what the OP asked? What does a glass breaker have to do with anything? The OP isn't asking about a Swiss-Army-Knife of pens.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    I do have a few "expensive" pens(I find the term to be relative) and I enjoy using them. By the same reasoning,I
    have some Lamy Safaris that I enjoy using when I feel like it. For me,it is the total package--I have to enjoy everything
    I see and know about the pen to be willing to spend the money on it whether vintage or contemporary. With respect to
    vintage,I look at it this way: Vintage pens are like vintage cars, but you can use them more often and not lose value(In
    fact,they may increase in value). They are also easier to fix and easier to get parts for than (some) vintage cars.

    BTW,some inexpensive pens like the Safari can increase in value over the years also.


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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    I'm not saying that it isn't part of the OP's clarification of his interest (or, probably more to the point, lack of interest in how pretty the pen might be), rather that it is not at issue, as in not a point of contention, since, as you note, all (reasonable) fountain pens have the same functionality. Some perform their function better than others.

    There are pens with a glassbreaker, BTW, just not a fountain pen AFAIK: http://www.uzi.com/tactical-pens .
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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    I have no idea what your point is, or where you're trying to go with this thread. The OP asked a simple question, and you're posting links to pens that are also glass breakers. BTW, no one said they didn't exist.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.
    I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

    As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.
    I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

    As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.
    I enjoy writing with any of my Nakayas more than with a pilot varsity. If you're going to say it "performs better", then I have to ask: how so? (specifically in terms of the OP's second question)
    Last edited by dneal; May 10th, 2015 at 12:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.
    I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

    As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.
    I enjoy writing with any of my Nakayas more than with a pilot varsity. If you're going to say it "performs better", then I have to ask: how so? (specifically in terms of the OP's second question)
    If you read all of the OP's second question things like feel and design are recognized as part of functionality. The experience we call writing is for many of us more than just the words on the paper. When I use a pen I also consider things like how it feels in hand while I am just thinking or listening to others, how it sounds when I cap or uncap it, how it feels during capping and uncapping, how it smells as well as how it looks, how easy it is to cap and uncap, how easy it is to clip it over different fabrics and how secure it is when clipped.

    There are folk that are satisfied with "just barely good enough" and that's great, but then there are also folk that set the minimum as higher than just good enough.

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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I have no idea what your point is, or where you're trying to go with this thread. The OP asked a simple question, and you're posting links to pens that are also glass breakers. BTW, no one said they didn't exist.
    The glassbreaker thing was an off-the-wall example of functionality a pen might have to make the point that functionality was not a contested matter to begin with in this thread. Perhaps my definition of "performance" is just broader than yours, as I was not referring to what I would call "aesthetic matters" in my original post. I provided the link about the glass breaker pens in the subsequent post as an attempt to lighten the mood a little (apparently a failure).

    I take the point that for some applications fountain pens are easy to "justify", but liquid ink, gel ink, and ballpoint ink each have different strengths. It seems to me that the mass movement away from fountain pens in the 1960's and onwards was a purely utilitarian thing. Nowadays fountain pens are making a comeback of sorts, but as an FP user, I don't go very long between instances that remind me that a free-flowing liquid ink isn't better than a good gel ink for most purposes I have at work, so I'd better be getting something else out of it. I'm sure as hell not saving any money. My original point, which is nothing more or less than my personal opinion, is that modern fountain pen usage is not usually going to be a purely utilitarian matter of how to put ink on the page. Even in cases where it is, there may be a special interest in ink selection, instead. Yes, there are folks who just have to write and write, who don't care much about ink selection, don't care about fountain pens except as tools. A fountain pen is well-suited to continuous writing, less so to the occasional "jotting" that probably most people need in a computerized world. I'm a mathematician, and I use fountain pens despite that they are not optimal for my application of them. This may bias my view a bit. The OP might be a member of the long-term continuous-writing, purely utilitarian group. But something about the way they talked about the Montblanc and their less-than-happy experiences with cheaper pens threw me off that trail.
    Last edited by mhosea; May 10th, 2015 at 02:00 PM. Reason: grammar
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    Default Re: Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

    I would say that C/C pens are the most durable. So a Lamy Safari or any Edison production line pen is way more durable than say, a Montblanc 146, Pelikan M800, or any of Visconti's myriad filling systems. The less moving parts and the less complex the construction, the more durable a pen tends to be, assuming quality materials in construction.

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