Nib comparison question: Pilot PO vs Masuyama Needlepoint

[ethernautrix]

Hello, Pen People!

I have a Pilot PO nib (on a Custom Heritage 912) that I adore. It's fantastic for writing small sentences in pocket-size notebooks. For writing in general.

I do not have a Masuyama Needlepoint nib, and I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with both of these nibs and can tell me if there is a great difference or hardly any.

What I love about the PO nib is that I can coax a lovely, subtle line variation in a skinny line. I do tend to hold my pens at a higher-than-average angle.

I'm wrestling with wanting a pen -- a Pilot CH912 (FA) (exactly, I know--not a PO nib, and I've read plenty of problems with inconsistent ink flow) and a Franklin-Christoph Pocket 66 with the needlepoint nib. Thus, I'm seeking knowledgeable comparisons between the Pilot PO nib and the F-C Needlepoint as I am unable to try the latter for myself. I don't expect Franklin-Christoph to come to Pen Show Poland, and I'm not going to make it to the LA Pen Show... and probably not the SF Pen Show, either (HEAVY SIGH).

Anyone?

Thanks in advance!

[Blue Note]

What is a PO nib?

[bluesea]

The Franklin-Christoph needlepoint nib(s) I've had, I couldn't really describe as true needlepoints. I don't think they came close in finest to the Sailor or Platinum ef, which are definitely not the finest points from those brands.

[Lloyd]

bluesea, did you try the gold or stainless? According to FC, the gold runs wetter and thicker than the stainless. Also, you can ask for thinner examples from their supplies (so they told me). I'm waiting on one of each in a pair of 02s.

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[dfo]

What is a PO nib?

It is an extra fine nib that is turned downward and was originally intended for Japanese postcards. It is a hard nib that is stiffer than Pilot's standard extra fine.

ethernautrix
The stiffness of the PO nib helps keep the tines together and a bit smoother than other extra fine nibs I have tried.

[Blue Note]

What is a PO nib?

It is an extra fine nib that is turned downward and was originally intended for Japanese postcards. It is a hard nib that is stiffer than Pilot's standard extra fine.

ethernautrix
The stiffness of the PO nib helps keep the tines together and a bit smoother than other extra fine nibs I have tried.

Thanks, I wasn't familiar with that one.

[bluesea]

bluesea, did you try the gold or stainless? According to FC, the gold runs wetter and thicker than the stainless. Also, you can ask for thinner examples from their supplies (so they told me). I'm waiting on one of each in a pair of 02s.

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Loyd, Good point, I had both. The first, a stainless, was a very nice nib w/line width running between a Pilot f and ef.

The F-C gold Needlepoint was an utter disappointment for the reasons you mention---a wet and fat nib which I sold quickly for a loss.

[Lloyd]

You know FC have a 30 day no questions asked return policy?

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[Lloyd]

Ether, do you like writing with a stiff nibbed Parker 51? They're durable and can be customized to as fine of a line as you want. I use an xf one that, when flipped over, can write fairly well with the finest hairline I can imagine.

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[inklord]

My wife has a steel F-C/Masuyama needlepoint that runs about like a Pilot F or a tad finer. She loves it for sketching and writing tiny annotations inside her drawings and it seems that the line gets finer with a steeper writing angle. Incidentally, that nib is installed in a Pocket 66 (which has advanced to being our mutual favorite modern pen). It's also a very smooth writer.
Another super fine line comes from my Sailor 21k nibs - they can be flipped in reverse mode and thus yield a consistent, ultra-fine line of moderate wetness, are a bit toothy but not scratchy at all, and ideal for minuscule writing (down to about 3mm height for the capitals and extensions in cursive writing).
And Lloyd is right: when a 18k "fine" nib from F-C turned out to be too fat for my taste, they took it back, no questions asked.

[ethernautrix]

Thanks for the feedback! You've all been helpful... and as I'm writing this, I'm remembering my third option: sending my Aurora Optima to Dan Smith for a grind to an EF.

Ether, do you like writing with a stiff nibbed Parker 51? They're durable and can be customized to as fine of a line as you want. I use an xf one that, when flipped over, can write fairly well with the finest hairline I can imagine.

Lloyd, my only problem with P51s is that they are not c/c. I know, I know, but I really don't like ink bladders.

I'm laughing at myself, because I'm thinking, I love the PO nib, and I already have it, so why am I considering the FC Pocket 66? Cos I have a 65 that I like writing with, but I want the #6 nib-swap option. And then, well, why not just forget all of that and just buy another Pilot with the PO nib? "What? As back-up?" "Yeah. Cos, you know...." "But I already have that pen! I don't need TWO of them." "But... back-up?" "How about 'replacement,' when and if it comes to that. So, yeah, meanwhile, no." And then I remembered... but I want the Pilot with the FA nib.

And these are the monkeys jamming my brain signals when I should be studying Polish. (Because Polish is hard.)


I think that if I saw a Pocket 66 with my hands, I would capitulate immediately and buy one. Or maybe the 66. I do like that these (66 and 65) resemble paintbrushes.

I have a Pelikan 100 ca. 1947 that probably writes similarly to the Pilot FA nib. See? I keep trying to inject "need" into the conversation with myself.

[ethernautrix]

bluesea, did you try the gold or stainless? According to FC, the gold runs wetter and thicker than the stainless. Also, you can ask for thinner examples from their supplies (so they told me). I'm waiting on one of each in a pair of 02s.

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This is good to know, because I like steel nibs. If I could buy a Nakaya steel nib (to use with one of my Piccolos), I would be happy to. (At least try it. I'm assuming I'd love it.)

[Lloyd]

I'm expecting to receive two FC model 02 tomorrow. One with a gold needlepoint and one with a stainless. I'm also getting on of their standard stainless xf nibs. I'm planning to keep at most one pen and the xf nib. However, I'm prepared to send them all back. I plan to use it a an eyedropper.

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[inklord]

Hello again, Ethernautrix! Just to inject more confusion/needless neediness/absurdity: I believe you DO need a p66. I have four inked right now and if it weren't for sentimental attachments to my Germanic "Designer Pens" they would be my only pens. Eyedroppered, they didn't even leak on a transatlantic flight that made (seemingly) my sinuses explode. And they are sooo minimalistically perfect (3 pieces of acrylic, 1 nib unit, ink...) and, dare I say it, mildly nakayaesque.
And this morning my wife said that the Masuyama Needlepoint is finer than her Pilot Falcon's fine nib.
Just teasing

[ethernautrix]

I'm expecting to receive two FC model 02 tomorrow. One with a gold needlepoint and one with a stainless. I'm also getting on of their standard stainless xf nibs. I'm planning to keep at most one pen and the xf nib. However, I'm prepared to send them all back. I plan to use it a an eyedropper.

Cool! I'd like to hear your impressions of the nibs (you know what I mean. Not "squeak, squeak, scritchy scritchy" but "skritchyskritchyskritch". Oo, maybe you can do it as Christopher Walken!)...or... just how you like them

[Lloyd]

Why are you anti ink bladder? Are you allergic or phobic?
You know that the 'P51' filler is way different than the typical bladder. Instead of latex, it's made of something far more durable called "plyglass" which is derived from unicorn horns (I read that somewhere on Richard's site). Parker stopped making the 'P51' when PETA started the "alternative truth" that unicorns were not real (a ploy to protect the beasts).

[ethernautrix]

Hello again, Ethernautrix! Just to inject more confusion/needless neediness/absurdity: I believe you DO need a p66. I have four inked right now and if it weren't for sentimental attachments to my Germanic "Designer Pens" they would be my only pens. Eyedroppered, they didn't even leak on a transatlantic flight that made (seemingly) my sinuses explode. And they are sooo minimalistically perfect (3 pieces of acrylic, 1 nib unit, ink...) and, dare I say it, mildly nakayaesque.
And this morning my wife said that the Masuyama Needlepoint is finer than her Pilot Falcon's fine nib.
Just teasing

Oo, might you have a photo of your p66s? No pressure. I could ask Google or go to F-C's website. But I agree with you about the minimalist design. F-C made the 66 simply as nib testers for folks at pen shows to try out every one of their nibs. Thus was born the clamor to make the pens available for sale.

My two finest nibs are both Pilot: the PO and a Falcon SEF. I rarely "flex" the SEF, but I tried it out yesterday and was all "Wheeee! I like this!"

I have my six Nakaya Piccolos inked (nibs ranging from EF to F), all different inks, and I am unable to take any of those pens out of rotation. Love the nibs and how they write and love the ink colors. Also in rotation... the two Pilots, the F-C65, and... oh that vintage Pelikan...and a couple of others. And I think, "I actually don't need any more pens, period. I have these. I love these. These are enough." But those monkeys will continue to grab my attention, between saying "hey, what's on YouTube" and "what do I need to do today" and then not thinking about what I need to do today cos of checking email or fpgeeks and then wondering if I made a decision about that Pilot FA or Platinum UEF or the Pocket 66. And then writing with all my pens again. It's ridiculous. And yet... here I am.

The only reason I don't use the 65 as an ED is having to use silicone. But there are so many threads, maybe it doesn't need silicone. What do you do? Use a little grease or none?

[ethernautrix]

Lloyd, ink bladders are great for them that loves 'em. For me, they are too fussy. Too fussy, I say! And I might poke a hole in it with the syringe when I'm topping off the ink.





Hehehe. You know that I can't use the syringe with ink bladders. How? Frikken all hidden inside the barrel or attached to the feed. I don't want to squeeze-squeeze-squeeze-check-squeeze-squeeze-squeeze-squeeze-is it full?-squeeze--Aaaah! Forget it! -- Or even waterpump-handle jack a lever back and forth, back and forth, get stabbed under the nail by the thin lever, check for blood, am I bleeding? a tiny dot of red -- that qualifies for bleeding! No, thanks. Don't get me started on the touchdowns and button-fillers. They're always "Here, no, you have to hold it like this. This one, you have to hold it like this. Okay, press down. Pull it up. Pull it up faster. No. Okay, let me show you. Usually it's easier, but this one, you know...." What, it's the exception? I think not! They're all like that! Fussy! Even the button-filler. "Press down like this. No, hold the pen like this." "It's awkward." "No, it isn't awkward if you hold it like this. Use your thumb like this and press." "It's too hard. It isn't going down." "No, wait, let me show you. See? Just press down like this. A couple of times." It is hard and awkward and fussy! Give me a cartridge and a syringe any day. Pull the ink up in one smooth move, press on the plunger slowly to fill the cartridge, bada-bing, so easy! Minimal fuss. That's me. That's my personality. (*laughing*)

[inklord]

The only reason I don't use the 65 as an ED is having to use silicone. But there are so many threads, maybe it doesn't need silicone. What do you do? Use a little grease or none?

I use a bit of silicone grease, but it stays on a long time if I don't change inks for that particular pen. The pens are actually tight without the grease, but I'd hate to long-term test that in my murse. And each inking is about 2.5 ml.
Yeah, I remember that syringe in your everyday carry kit back in the FPG post - same way I fill my p66's. Once you get the hang of it, the re-greasing of the threads and filling up the barrel is no-mess easy. People look at me in a funny way though, with my little ziplock bag containing 2 or 3 qtips, a small lipbalm container full of silicone grease, a syringe with a blunt needle, and a 5ml sample size ink vial... refilling my pen on a commuter train somewhere in Europe or at a diner here in the US...
(I'll try to post some pics later today)

[Lloyd]

Give me a cartridge and a syringe any day.

You sound like a hunter with a drug habit.

So you'd rather squirt a few fractions of a milliliter of ink into a tiny tube and then push it onto you pen, hoping that the fitting on the re-used cartridge hasn't worn out than use a little schmear of silicone on a barrel's threads after filling up with several mls of ink? You must really enjoy the refilling process.
(isn't you Danitrio an ED?)