What is up with FPN?

[Sailor Kenshin]

I just wonder when and if it will be back for real.

[david i]

Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I am quite happy with FPN. I found a lot of useful information on FPN and lots of nice, helpful people are contributing there. I don't think Wim and the FPN crew have bad intentions.
However, I get the impression that the technical side of running FPN is getting over their heads. The amount of downtime lately is massive. I can imagine that people who have paid for one of the new merchants accounts are very unhappy with that.

SNIP

I was long unaware of any "backroom" machinations by Admin and moderators and was quite content there, and probably would have remained blissfully ignorant until the board kept going down and "forced" me to look elsewhere for my fountain pen fix. So I came here and found this thread, and..... I am distressed by the recent bout of banning that has occurred this month - I mean, come on, ban people for expressing positive criticism or different views when feedback is supposedly encouraged by admin?? Ban people for expressing an opinion in their PMs (has this been proven??) or on other fountain pen sites? It makes no sense to me and is quite disappointing.

I do not believe that everyone or even most of those in the moderator group at FPN can possibly be as petty, controlling or malicious as the impression of them seems to be here. I will continue to visit and participate there - if the board ever again stays up long enough for me to do so - but I will be a bit more cautious about what I say and what I write, and I will spend much more time here where people seem equally welcoming, friendly and knowledgeable. (Plus there seem to be a lot of FPN members or ex-members (banned) here and I want to keep track of my friends and the folks that I trust to steer me right when I have a question!)

Holly
Holly

People often do not believe... until reality confronts them with unassailable evidence. Perhaps when you are banned...

Different boards appeal to different people, and that of course is just fine. People who don't have strong opinions should do fine at FPN. Those who wish to engage in serious chat and not to feel obligation to genuflect to the caprice and malice of a single owner, might do better at FPG or FPB, where far far greater room is given for disagreement, even for disagreeable posts.

Of course, that's just my opinion

regards

david

[PointyThings]

What if the picture storage is part of the database and is stored as a binary in the database.
Any amount of scanning won't detect any malicious code attached to the image file unless it also scans the database entries.

You mean that enforcing board-hosted images is part of the problem? Wait I think I hear Isaacson screaming with laughter in the corner...

So I've just done a blog post on our site on "Alternatives to the Fountain Pen Network", and plugged any keyword I can think of into the SEO. Hopefully people going cold turkey from FPN will start discovering that there are some good alternatives out here.

My daughter (18 yrs.) commented last night about the placeholder page being rather condescending: "why don't you play with some pens and inks? " Yeesh, I'm getting more irritated all the time.

Thanks for the Fountain Pen Classifieds plug! I know FPC will always be "an alternative" site for pen commerce, but that's fine with me.

--Karl

[Manny]

I wanna be one of the "cool kids".
If only FPN would just stay up long enough so I could also get myself banned...OY!

[jde]

A lot of forums charge for advertising and for access to their own sales forums/boards. What's the big deal here? I myself pay for advertising at a couple of places so I can bring attention to my pens and scholarship. If I make money advertising on somebody else's site, I'm glad to pay what is basically an insignificant amount of money to do so.

I would have been glad to pay a general membership myself.

The issue for me is not about the $$ for advertising.

It's the hypocrisy of it and how it was handled, IMHO.

It is a big deal

because FPN Admins previously insisted they would be happy to have the classifieds go away, that FPN was not a commercial enterprise.

and so one day we wake up finally to a division of commercial memberships and the rest of us pen plebes?

and when we offer opinion, no thank you it is not wanted unless it's how the FPN admin wants you to frame it?

or concern is voiced than there may be conflicts of some interest between paid member accounts and moderation... these threads disappear from view, allegedly for “review?"

There has been no transparency or accountability for our “donations” to FPN. Only complains that we didn't give enough.

As I've over-pondered the recent debacle, I've come to the conclusion it was much easier to offer memberships to people who have something to sell. After all, if there was a general membership to us plebes, we might expect fair moderation, or to be able to offer dissenting opinions. We might expect something, ay?

And no offense intended here to all our wonderful friends who have stuff to sell. What would we do without pens and ink to buy/sell/trade, ay? Here on FPGeeks, they make it clear: they take in ads so they can fund the site (hey, look, they have an “ethics statement!” go figure, such radicalism! *applause*)

And no disrespect meant to you Shawn, as I've admired you for your tenacity, your sharing of what you've learned, and your good works with students.

I'm usually a polite guest in someone else's home, and apologize for my anger which I will leave confined here in this popcorn inducing thread. As a member of FPN for 5 years or so, I've seen a few things I didn't understand, heard about old dramas, and saw new dramas erupt and fizzle. I have felt the unspoken censorship on certain topics. I even thought that good outweighed the bad.

However....Why on earth anyone would ban reprieve or jbb even temporarily is beyond me. Or tandaina permanently? (Yes, I saw 'away' listed for all three.) Such gentle and thoughtful souls.

Honestly, if I could delete all my contributions from FPN I would. Alas, I am not allowed that control over my own content.

—Julie

Edited for clarity: I support advertisements & advertisers of forums I participate in. I'm anti-bullies, among other things. I'm for transparency, respect and kindness.

[david i]

[QUOTE=jde;22956]

SNIP

Honestly, if I could delete all my contributions from FPN I would. Alas, I am not allowed that control over my own content.

—Julie

I did delete the key elements of my contributions there. It possibly was the most entertaining single action I've taken as a pen hobbyist, given how the event evolved. Poor Wim still has palpitations when recalling it.

regards

David

[OakIris]

Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I am quite happy with FPN. I found a lot of useful information on FPN and lots of nice, helpful people are contributing there. I don't think Wim and the FPN crew have bad intentions.
However, I get the impression that the technical side of running FPN is getting over their heads. The amount of downtime lately is massive. I can imagine that people who have paid for one of the new merchants accounts are very unhappy with that.

SNIP

I was long unaware of any "backroom" machinations by Admin and moderators and was quite content there, and probably would have remained blissfully ignorant until the board kept going down and "forced" me to look elsewhere for my fountain pen fix. So I came here and found this thread, and..... I am distressed by the recent bout of banning that has occurred this month - I mean, come on, ban people for expressing positive criticism or different views when feedback is supposedly encouraged by admin?? Ban people for expressing an opinion in their PMs (has this been proven??) or on other fountain pen sites? It makes no sense to me and is quite disappointing.

I do not believe that everyone or even most of those in the moderator group at FPN can possibly be as petty, controlling or malicious as the impression of them seems to be here. I will continue to visit and participate there - if the board ever again stays up long enough for me to do so - but I will be a bit more cautious about what I say and what I write, and I will spend much more time here where people seem equally welcoming, friendly and knowledgeable. (Plus there seem to be a lot of FPN members or ex-members (banned) here and I want to keep track of my friends and the folks that I trust to steer me right when I have a question!)

Holly

People often do not believe... until reality confronts them with unassailable evidence. Perhaps when you are banned...

Different boards appeal to different people, and that of course is just fine. People who don't have strong opinions should do fine at FPN. Those who wish to engage in serious chat and not to feel obligation to genuflect to the caprice and malice of a single owner, might do better at FPG or FPB, where far far greater room is given for disagreement, even for disagreeable posts.

Of course, that's just my opinion

regards

david

I think I understand the reality, I'm just in partial denial. There really are still good people there, even those with strong opinions, so perhaps I am hoping that somehow Admin will get back to reality themselves and become more accepting, though from FPN's history this does not seem likely. I don't want to lose access to all the info on FPN. (Of course, that will be a moot point if FPN never goes back on line again. Three days and counting, and that after it seems it was down more than it was up all last week.) I really don't want to get banned just to prove that Admin is delusional...

As Julie and others have mentioned, I, too, am astonished that folks like Jill (jbb,) reprieve and tandaina were among the "fallen" at FPN. Astonishing, really.... Now as for you, David.... (j/k) I don't know the full story but it would appear that you were banned for equally unfounded, petty reasons - how dare any of us have opinions that don't mirror Admins! So, I may rethink my willingness to still participate at FPN but I will see if things improve or get worse first.

Holly

[david i]

[QUOTE=OakIris;22972][QUOTE=david i;22915][QUOTE=OakIris;22912]

Unlike a lot of people in

As Julie and others have mentioned, I, too, am astonished that folks like Jill (jbb,) reprieve and tandaina were among the "fallen" at FPN. Astonishing, really.... Now as for you, David.... (j/k) I don't know the full story but it would appear that you were banned for equally unfounded, petty reasons - how dare any of us have opinions that don't mirror Admins! So, I may rethink my willingness to still participate at FPN but I will see if things improve or get worse first.

Holly

Hi Holly,

In all fairness... I actually did the major banning-- of FPN in that incident. I gave 'em their most significant smack in the chops they've had (save perhaps if their current downtime in fact is d/t member-related intervention), when they declined to remove my content after they got a bit too much in my face. I did give them the chance, and they really had earned it. The line i received from them when I had made my requests was- more or less- "We do what we want. Who do you think you are?"

"Banning" me-- after that-- rather was like closing the barn doors after all the horses have escaped

Hope you have a good time there. Never would I wish anyone a bad experience. But, if you want to talk pen collecting without concern of the times Wim goes off his (perhaps metaphorical) meds, you will do better at this board or even over at my board (FPnuts, Fountain Pen Board).

regards

david

[david i]

[QUOTE=OakIris;22972][QUOTE=david i;22915][QUOTE=OakIris;22912]

Unlike a lot of people in

I think I understand the reality, I'm just in partial denial. There really are still good people there, even those with strong opinions, so perhaps I am hoping that somehow Admin will get back to reality themselves and become more accepting, though from FPN's history this does not seem likely. I don't want to lose access to all the info on FPN. (Of course, that will be a moot point if FPN never goes back on line again. Three days and counting, and that after it seems it was down more than it was up all last week.) I really don't want to get banned just to prove that Admin is delusional...

Holly

Hi again,

Note that membership at any of these boards is not necessary to have access to the information here. You would not lose that if you left FPN. You would lose merely posting rights. As to searches, Google site-specific searches are more powerful than the searches done within any of the boards.

regards

david

[D Armstrong]

I think that an important point has been raised, and that is the danger of generalization. I personally know one of the FPN mods, and that person is a decent, kindly, and generous soul who would rather die than be involved in backroom politicking. I also think that people like Shawn are decent folks who simply hav invested a lot of themselves in FPN, and thus have a loyalty to it as an entity, rather than to any particular Admin.

So, there seems to be a disconnect between those who have generously contributed to the community, and those who have seized control of the administration and the financial interests of the board and are creating a bully culture within it.

On another thought...

It seems that these communities have something of a half-life. They are created by enthusiasts. They are cultivated by various people who join in and generously contribute. But after awhile they hit a critical mass of discussion (how many times can you address a new member's simply query, like "my ebay Parker 51 is leaking out of the top end, can anyone help?"), and the original enthusiasts stop contributing so much. After a while longer, there are more and more simple topics, and less and less new content, at which point things go very quiet, for a long time.

I am convinced that the one thing which can stave off this decay process is commerce. If people can make it profitable, they will be motivated to find or create new content. Is this in any way morally suspect, or sleazy? Not at all. Fountain pens themselves would not exist if someone had not decided to develop them commercially. Some of the most beautiful and influential examples of 20th century printing and typography were done specifically as advertising by companies selling type.

By quashing, or controlling, commerce, FPN has really "cut off it's nose to spite it's face." Fountain pen lovers want to buy pens, and need to buy ink and paper. They love it. To remove that from the equation limits the board's usefulness to it's members. And it cuts off some of the best sources of information out there: vendors and repairers.

And it's not that it is vastly expensive, because it isn't. But elsewhere is free. And elsewhere is friendly. So as a result, it simply pays better and is more satisfying to put the effort elsewhere.

[Manny]

About this time last year, I had a handwritten post simply titled, "Good Words" on FPN.
It had received, I would say, mostly favorable comments, but because the post had a "religious" element, a few members took exception to it, and cited the "prohibited topics" clause in the Chatter Forum.
Now, I was never really contacted by anyone from FPN Admin regarding the post, but a couple of members who I guess considered themselves "the thought police" gave their opinion, and in MY opinion needlessly started arguing with those who defended me.
Anyway, I just got so annoyed by the whole thing, I took down ALL my handwritten posts from photobucket just for spite - which I sort of regretted. But after I got to cool down a bit, I started handwritten posts again - in earnest. Right now, I have over 1,400 images in photobucket I could just delete...blip...and all gone from FPN. But I won't, because others just might find them helpful - if FPN ever gets running again (and it would just just take too much of my time). I will not be doing any significant posting there anymore either, I feel like my work there is done..off to greener pastures.
Thanks for having me here.

[rwiker]

Hmmm... FPN appears to be back.

[piscov]

I think that an important point has been raised, and that is the danger of generalization. I personally know one of the FPN mods, and that person is a decent, kindly, and generous soul who would rather die than be involved in backroom politicking. I also think that people like Shawn are decent folks who simply hav invested a lot of themselves in FPN, and thus have a loyalty to it as an entity, rather than to any particular Admin.

So, there seems to be a disconnect between those who have generously contributed to the community, and those who have seized control of the administration and the financial interests of the board and are creating a bully culture within it.

On another thought...

It seems that these communities have something of a half-life. They are created by enthusiasts. They are cultivated by various people who join in and generously contribute. But after awhile they hit a critical mass of discussion (how many times can you address a new member's simply query, like "my ebay Parker 51 is leaking out of the top end, can anyone help?"), and the original enthusiasts stop contributing so much. After a while longer, there are more and more simple topics, and less and less new content, at which point things go very quiet, for a long time.

I am convinced that the one thing which can stave off this decay process is commerce. If people can make it profitable, they will be motivated to find or create new content. Is this in any way morally suspect, or sleazy? Not at all. Fountain pens themselves would not exist if someone had not decided to develop them commercially. Some of the most beautiful and influential examples of 20th century printing and typography were done specifically as advertising by companies selling type.

By quashing, or controlling, commerce, FPN has really "cut off it's nose to spite it's face." Fountain pen lovers want to buy pens, and need to buy ink and paper. They love it. To remove that from the equation limits the board's usefulness to it's members. And it cuts off some of the best sources of information out there: vendors and repairers.

And it's not that it is vastly expensive, because it isn't. But elsewhere is free. And elsewhere is friendly. So as a result, it simply pays better and is more satisfying to put the effort elsewhere.

I´m not able to put this better! Thank you!! I support 100% of your words.

[piscov]

Hmmm... FPN appears to be back.

But its sooooooo slow.....

[Sailor Kenshin]

I'll wait until 'fixed' really is.

[Pens&Lit]

Down again, this time for an indeterminate amount of time while they get a new server. Not trying to stir any pots, just posting what I just saw.

[reval]

And it is offline again. *sigh*

[reval]

So at first it was a DoS-attack, after that a DNS hack, and now a hardware problem...

[D Armstrong]

So at first it was a DoS-attack, after that a DNS hack, and now a hardware problem...

Heh heh. You forgot to mention that the 1:00pm notice mentioned more re-directs. Maybe a new server will fix that too...

[david i]

Well, I must say, with FPN crashing we have had quite the flood of vintage pen postings at The Fountain Pen Board, and this thread at FPG is one of the chunkiest to develop so fast I've ever seen. Will be curious if everyone playing more at these two boards will stick around if/when FPN actually manages to achieve a stable platform again.

regards

david