What is up with FPN?

[Jon Szanto]

Jon, don't you mean (for the second part) DANCING! like a ballerina!

I'll think about it...

avatar57_45.gif

[HughC]

Well, we located the cause of the problems, and fixed it with the aid of our registrar.

This means that FPN may be unreachable for up to 24 hours from some parts of the internet. Someone appears to have changed the Domain Name Server registration at the registrar, not in our account itself, and our ip-address was replaced on their servers with someone else's. This means there were two sets of DNS's, each set pointing to different ip-addresses, one correct and one wrong.

That is corrected now, but needs to propagate over the internet first. As mentioned, that takes up to 24 hours.

Regards, Wim
FPN Admin

That's good.Now if you have read this topic you should realise you and your tactics have caused some people feeling very hurt. In a breathtaking display of arrogance you post here and all you want to talk about is "your" FPN ( posting about,say, the FPB on your FPN would probably be deleted...) , there are some other issues you should address as well.

Warm Regards
Hugh

[david i]

Hugh, he can't help himself. But, I know he'll never forget the good-bye I gave him.

-d

[Newton Pens]

Cripes David. Are you STILL talking about that?

[david i]

Cripes David. Are you STILL talking about that?

Uhhh... it is the topic of the thread. I always wonder why people join threads to say, "why are people talking about the thread?".

Just one of those quirks I guess.

If anyone who runs this forum prefers we not talk about this subject, I will of course not talk about this subject. Just sayin'...

[Jimmy James]

I'll give it to you, Dr. I, you left in memorable fashion.

I have always chalked up the way FPN works to the way the leadership wants it to work. It's not the way any other forum I have participated in works, and it's not what I would call the best way. What's absolutely true is that they have the members and the members are what make for interesting conversation. So far, I have been able to avoid the issues others have had. If I run into issues, I'll cross that bridge at that time. I'm glad this is here (even if I often forget it), and if some day it overtakes FPN, fine by me. By the same token, I've learned so much about pens thanks to FPN. I like the place for that reason alone.

[tytoalba]

Hugh, he can't help himself. But, I know he'll never forget the good-bye I gave him.

-d

OK, You win..
have a beer on me.. you're absolutely right, nothing, or very little - lasts forever.

apologies to FPG's for barging into the thread

[Phoenix]

Cripes David. Are you STILL talking about that?

For those members who were suspended for voicing a differing opinion this is a helpful post. I was reading the supposedly offending post before it was taken down on FPN and it was all very civil. The only exception was an unusual outburst from Wim. This entire drama could have easily been avoided but from an objective standpoint it was Wim and not the others who were out of line. Frankly your post here, attacking David, is odd.

[Newton Pens]

sorry.

[david i]

Hugh, he can't help himself. But, I know he'll never forget the good-bye I gave him.

-d

OK, You win.. You win every time you bring up the glorious win.. Till your last breath, and after, may your children win every time they recall how you won.
but it's a pyrrhic victory.. at too great a cost. SNIP

I would venture the observation that you are investing yourself too much in unecessarily "deep" analysis.

I'm having fun with the thread. You seem unhappy I am having fun with the thread, and seek "profound" explanations where none, in my view, exist.

I can recognize that and accept it, but wouldn't you be happier working on being... well... happy?

You state you don't engage in negative sparring, yet your last post seems to be... negative sparring

At FPN many indeed have noted there is not the great discussion of old pens that there used to be. There cannot be, given the nature of moderation there.

There seems to be good discussion here, though this board is relatively new. We've had good discussion of Fountain Pen Board, though that too will improve with ever increasing membership.

One cannot expect the volume of conversation present at a board with far more members, but there can be... better... conversation at boards with relatively few members.

If you feel such a loss about FPN's "old pen" chat, then indeed you should join people who play elsewhere. You might be pleasantly surprised.

I've been online in pen chat for fifteen years. I've seen Boards come and go. You would not believe the volume once present at places whose names you now might not even recognize. They were once the standard bearers for internet pen chat. Now they are gone or nearly so. Nothing lasts forever.

So, play at a place that cannot handle folks who know more and have more to give than does its leadership. Or throw yourself into a smaller place (whichever one or more meets your needs, of course) and help build that which you find missing in your old place. It... can be done.

regards

david

[Phoenix]

sorry.

Now we go have a beer.

[david i]

I like beer...

[Phoenix]

I like beer...

You come too!

[Newton Pens]

No beer for me. Just coffee please.

http://coffeegrinderpress.wordpress....nd-containers/

[Marsilius]

Hi all,
I read here a lot but never post, but thought I would pipe in for a couple of thoughts.

1. I never got officially censored on a forum, but that concept has always bothered me. The only thing I could predict anyone doing here that freak me out would be if someone starting a thread about kilts, which in my mind is the group equivalent of hold your breath while saying "la la la la la" and "I can't HEEEAR you." (Of course, it is not only internet forums that have a way of "drumming people out of town" for dissent.)

2. I have enjoyed both FPG and FPB, both in substance and in tolerance. I have been impressed with how accepting David is with people on his forum that might have offended others. I think the beneficial model both forums provide speaks more than any written policy.

3. The line between controlling quality and toleration of difference can be razor fine indeed: once drawn, however, those on either side tend to end up at the opposite ends of an impassibly wide ravine. I remember two profs I had: One wanted students who were always trying new things and being spontaneous, while the other wanted students who could follow rules and do a great technical job. Neither one was necessarily wrong, nor were they always that far apart, but the controversies of small differences often seemed to hinge on that issue of control vs. freedom. (Full disclosure: I tend to fall in the "tolerance" camp.)

Best wishes to all for great ongoing conversations.
Mars

[AltecGreen]

Hi all,
1. I never got officially censored on a forum, but that concept has always bothered me. The only thing I could predict anyone doing here that freak me out would be if someone starting a thread about kilts, which in my mind is the group equivalent of hold your breath while saying "la la la la la" and "I can't HEEEAR you." (Of course, it is not only internet forums that have a way of "drumming people out of town" for dissent.)

Actually you are wrong about the kilts things. It started a few years ago when a member posted on FPN about another pen site. The thread was getting a bit heated very quickly. I guess a fair number of members did not like the fact the person was promoting a 'rival' pen site. Farmboy and a few others threw out the kilts thing as a way to diffuse the thread by steering the thread towards...well kilts. It really was a way to diffuse threads so they don't get taken down. The whole thing caught on and took a life of it's own.

Soon after we had the armadillo thread but that's another story.

[Marsilius]

[/QUOTE]


Actually you are wrong about the kilts things. It started a few years ago when a member posted on FPN about another pen site. The thread was getting a bit heated very quickly. I guess a fair number of members did not like the fact the person was promoting a 'rival' pen site. Farmboy and a few others threw out the kilts thing as a way to diffuse the thread by steering the thread towards...well kilts. It really was a way to diffuse threads so they don't get taken down. The whole thing caught on and took a life of it's own.

Soon after we had the armadillo thread but that's another story.[/QUOTE]

Point taken, and thank you for that. I saw it only later, and it seemed like something that happened whenever things got too serious, so I perceived it as described: a way of shutting down a talk. But now you see how sensitive I might be!

[D Armstrong]

Hi All,

I'm finding this thread quite interesting, for a number of reasons.

I have been contributing primarily at FPN for several years now. I have always been curious about the whole David Isaacson thing, and have always been a bit disturbed by the fact that all references to what had happened had been purged, and that everyone was afraid to even mention it, at risk of being likewise purged. Rather Stalinesque, by any measure.

That being said, I have found FPN to be a great source of information, and I was always happy to add to the pool. We run a (very) small business in pens and FP-friendly stationery, but I have always tried to keep my postings non-commercial in nature. When I have tried selling, I have found FPN-based commerce to be highly over-rated: too much time spent on listings that either generate no interest, or get buried within hours.

Increasingly, I found postings on FPN to be a bit same-old same-old, to coin a phrase. Recently I have not spent much time there, choosing to spend time with real-life people in our area (Toronto), where there is both interest and demand for pens and pen repair.

However, I do think that the current developments and issues there can provide us with some valuable insight. First, some observations:

1) FPN has recently become a commercial entity in and of itself.

A) It has been incorporated, which means that it now must both grow, and provide dividends.

B) It is selling it's own branded merchandise, including:

i) pens

ii) ink

iii) other merch, like pins, ball caps, coffee cups, etc.

C) It is now charging substantially for advertising rights.

2) There is an history of in-fighting among the moderators/founders.

3) Draconian measures are taken by a moderator or moderators to cover up any dissent. As a result, a certain level of paranoia is always present in the community.

4) According to the present person in control, the recent technical difficulties are a result of someone with administrative rights in accessing the domain registration. In other words, someone among the high-level mods at FPN has recently become so upset that they have tried to destroy it by means of extreme link-hijacking. This indicates a level of animosity and dysfunction that is extreme, desperate, and without hope of reconciliation.

In analyzing these observations, I have come to the following conclusion:

In the past year or so, FPN has become systematically commercial, in violation of the previous vehement intentions to the contrary. Considering the huge size of the pool of members, this commercial activity is potentially worth many thousands of dollars, over the extended lifetime of the company. The incorporation means that someone is legally controlling this income. The obvious conclusion is, again more simply put (by my 20-year-old son): mod war over the cash.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with commerce. In fact, I think that a balanced commercial presence is what has kept FPN so healthy for so long; there are no free lunches, and that includes top-quality input on fountain pens. But when someone starts being commercial, while loudly stating that they are not interested in making money, I start checking that my wallet is still where I left it.

I am sad to see what appears to be the implosion of what has been a good resource. But as David I put it, boards come and go. And in-fighting over the control of people's voices and cash is something we can find throughout humanity's history. So we shouldn't be surprised that it is still around, and that it can destroy what it touches. And from the sounds of things, this has been coming for a long time.

It will be interesting to see if my FPN account suffers any consequences from this posting. In signing off, however, I should point out that there has always been a quotation under my FPN avatar; the same one I use in write-testing all of the pens I rebuild. It comes from Junius, an 18th century English writer who was addressing exactly the same issues that seem to be plaguing FPN:

"The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither recommend, nor submit to, arbitrary measures."

Roughly explained, it means: even though you may have power over people, it doesn't mean that they just have to shut up and take it. In fact, they may just have a duty to ignore what you want them to do.

I love that quote.

PS
JBB: I am truly sorry at your distress. I always appreciated your postings on FPN, and was struck by your generosity and decency. The problem is not with you. Stick to your guns, and simply take them where they are appreciated.

[Jimmy James]

Well for what it's worth, what I recall about Dr. I is that there was a nasty spat over the color of a Snorkel on the Sheaffer board and soon thereafter his very nice photos were replaced by some not very nice photos. I hope I don't get banned here for saying that (or at FPN!).

[dannzeman]

Well for what it's worth, what I recall about Dr. I is that there was a nasty spat over the color of a Snorkel on the Sheaffer board and soon thereafter his very nice photos were replaced by some not very nice photos. I hope I don't get banned here for saying that (or at FPN!).

You'd have to say a lot worse than that to get banned here.