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Thread: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

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    Default Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Hey Everyone.

    I just published a new article on the Edison site.

    http://edisonpen.com/page.cfm/Reevaluate-Converters

    Let me know your thoughts, thanks!

    Brian at Edison

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Nice article that summarizes many of the reasons I like C/C based pens.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    I agree
    While I like all filling systems and as you know will pay for one I like, most of my pens are CC pens because I like saturated inks and sometimes need to replace converters
    Tom
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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    A thought provoking commentary.

    Every filling system has it's advantages and disadvantages, which gives me choice. What's the right pen for me in one set of circumstances is the wrong pen for me in another. Therefore, I'm not particularly bothered about the filling system on a modern pen - but what I do like about convertors is that if the convertor fails, I can pop another one in the pen and be writing in under a minute pending looking at the failed unit at my convenience.

    I like cc pens when testing out a new ink because I can strip them down and flush them so easily, and for this reason I reserve my higher maintenance inks for such pens. I stick to inks that flush easily for lever fill and piston fill pens.

    There are occasions when the limited capacity of a convertor isn't sufficient for me as I like my nibs as italic broads with generous flow - so for a day when I am taking the notes in an all day meeting, I will be equipped with a couple of lever or piston fill pens and a bottle of ink. But I cheerfully refilled a cc Parker 25 during exams at school and university - that was thinking time for me.

    It's great that we have choice, but tolerance is also needed. What suits me may not suit someone else and vice versa. I won't tell someone that a pen is not worth buying because it's a cc, and convertor fill will not stop me buying a pen if a) the ergonomics suit me b ) the nib either suits me or is broad enough to be ground to suit and c) is aesthetically pleasing to me.

    And yes, price does come into it. Would I spend more to buy the same pen with a different filling system? Highly unlikely but I won't say never.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    I completely agree and have been saying the same thing. The c/c system isn't the coolest system, to be sure, and preferring some other system is fine. Some people prefer the Parker 51 Vacs to the Aerometrics, even. I have no problem with people having their preferences. But the ubiquitous c/c system is, in fact, a replaceable piston filler unit and deserves a lot of respect from an engineering point of view. Although converters arose in connection with cartridges, we might also have gotten to this point if we had asked how to make a piston filler that was easier for the end user to maintain/repair.

    I don't personally have any interest in high-capacity, but that might be because I enjoy filling my pens, and changing ink colors. The only negative that I experience is that the diameter of the converter is small enough that surface tension can sometimes hold the ink in the back of the converter. We see springs, balls, and other objects in the reservoir used to mitigate that issue.

    BTW, Brian, I think your next "interesting" filler should be a syringe-type.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post

    BTW, Brian, I think your next "interesting" filler should be a syringe-type.
    Is that another way to say snorkel?

    I would love to see a misquoito like adapter that fits Edition pens for filling from vials and meh bottles actually
    Tom
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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    I totally agree with everything you say, Brian. A c/c filling system is convenient, easy to maintain and holds a lot of ink. And yours are particularly nice.

    However, if the internet teaches us anything, it's that when people have fixed ideas, logic doesn't always sway them. That's why, if I were you, I'd consider making or licensing a piston filler system. That's a nice system as well. But more importantly, people just like piston fillers, and think of them as premium systems. Edison would fill a niche, because you allow a buyer to customize the materials rather than settle for whatever is offered by one of the big companies. Tortoise piston fillers! Demonstrators! You would sell them.

    And I could have the first one.

    No, really. I called the first one.

    Not that a piston filler is better than a c/c, because it isn't. But folks love your special filling systems.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    I totally agree with everything you say, Brian. A c/c filling system is convenient, easy to maintain and holds a lot of ink. And yours are particularly nice.

    However, if the internet teaches us anything, it's that when people have fixed ideas, logic doesn't always sway them. That's why, if I were you, I'd consider making or licensing a piston filler system. That's a nice system as well. But more importantly, people just like piston fillers, and think of them as premium systems. Edison would fill a niche, because you allow a buyer to customize the materials rather than settle for whatever is offered by one of the big companies. Tortoise piston fillers! Demonstrators! You would sell them.

    And I could have the first one.

    No, really. I called the first one.

    Not that a piston filler is better than a c/c, because it isn't. But folks love your special filling systems.
    Variety is the spice of life!!!

    We will introduce a piston filler someday, but exactly when is yet to be determined. I'll sign you up for #1, OK?

    Thanks for the comments!

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    I still can't understand why there aren't any releasable international ink cartridges out there. Next time I'm home I will probably make a few caps for cartridges out of Polymorph. so that I can have a spare cartridge ready no matter what brand of ink etc.

    I don't understand why no company offers a reusable cartridge when there are many specialist far less applicable accessories out there.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbreeze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post

    BTW, Brian, I think your next "interesting" filler should be a syringe-type.
    Is that another way to say snorkel?

    I would love to see a misquoito like adapter that fits Edition pens for filling from vials and meh bottles actually
    The Sheaffer Snorkel system is a marvel of engineering you are not likely to see again because of the complexity. To keep the price under control, you would need mass production and sales volumes that I don't think are realistic today. So enjoy the real Snorkels. They are indeed ideally suited for using the last drops of ink.

    Providing an extending or attachable needle seems prohibitively difficult because a custom feed would be required to obtain the requisite air seal needed. Brian could provide a thread-in needle that fits in place of the nib unit rather than attaches to it. This might be reasonable for occasional use to snap up the last drops of ink. Of course, mind you keep the pen upright when swapping the nib back on! However, you could achieve similar results with a blunt-tip needle on a medical syringe, treating the pen bereft of its nib unit as an ED.

    What I had in mind, rather, was the simplest of all possible piston-filling mechanisms. Rather than twist the end of a pen to push and pull the piston via a screw-type mechanism, you simply push/pull on a piston rod directly. The Gate City Belmont is an example. Flushing such a pen is particularly quick, but it has no advantages vis-a-vis getting at the last drops of ink in the bottle.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbreeze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post

    BTW, Brian, I think your next "interesting" filler should be a syringe-type.
    Is that another way to say snorkel?

    I would love to see a misquoito like adapter that fits Edition pens for filling from vials and meh bottles actually
    The Sheaffer Snorkel system is a marvel of engineering you are not likely to see again because of the complexity. To keep the price under control, you would need mass production and sales volumes that I don't think are realistic today. So enjoy the real Snorkels. They are indeed ideally suited for using the last drops of ink.

    Providing an extending or attachable needle seems prohibitively difficult because a custom feed would be required to obtain the requisite air seal needed. Brian could provide a thread-in needle that fits in place of the nib unit rather than attaches to it. This might be reasonable for occasional use to snap up the last drops of ink. Of course, mind you keep the pen upright when swapping the nib back on! However, you could achieve similar results with a blunt-tip needle on a medical syringe, treating the pen bereft of its nib unit as an ED.

    What I had in mind, rather, was the simplest of all possible piston-filling mechanisms. Rather than twist the end of a pen to push and pull the piston via a screw-type mechanism, you simply push/pull on a piston rod directly. The Gate City Belmont is an example. Flushing such a pen is particularly quick, but it has no advantages vis-a-vis getting at the last drops of ink in the bottle.
    So like the Noodler's Ahab but better?
    Tom
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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by top pen View Post
    I still can't understand why there aren't any releasable international ink cartridges out there. Next time I'm home I will probably make a few caps for cartridges out of Polymorph. so that I can have a spare cartridge ready no matter what brand of ink etc.

    I don't understand why no company offers a reusable cartridge when there are many specialist far less applicable accessories out there.
    Resealable is tough, as most cartridges will have a "pop" seal that only functions once. However, I've heard stories about people refilling a cartridge and then putting a blob of hot-melt glue on the tip of the converter. It creates a seal, and then is easily popped off when you want to use it.

    I've never tried this, so at your own risk, but I've heard that it works fine. I'd probably still put them in a ziploc or something similar just in case the hot-melt failed.
    Last edited by bgray; September 25th, 2014 at 10:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbreeze View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post

    BTW, Brian, I think your next "interesting" filler should be a syringe-type.
    Is that another way to say snorkel?

    I would love to see a misquoito like adapter that fits Edition pens for filling from vials and meh bottles actually
    I have more than a few systems up my sleeve! I just need to find the time to engineer them! We're looking to hire another soon, so that will free me up some. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by View from the Loft View Post
    I won't tell someone that a pen is not worth buying because it's a cc
    Plenty of people do, though, or disparage a pen for not having a gold nib, a bit of flex or whatever, and often that's their only contribution to a thread. Maybe it's the narcissism of minor differences?

    The solution is for people like you and me to jump in every time a pen is mentioned and come down on it from a great height for not being italic, and therefore not a proper fountain pen. They'd soon get tired, but I'm not sure they'd get the message.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by bgray View Post
    I have more than a few systems up my sleeve! I just need to find the time to engineer them! We're looking to hire another soon, so that will free me up some. Thanks!
    I hope you aren't so busy that this pop culture reference will not make sense... but...

    Shut Up and Take my Money


    For those who may not follow all my posts... I bought a Signature Edison Pneumatic that is the most expensive pen in my collection. Yet is my daily carry pen. I am truly the geek with the pen that costs more then your tablet around my neck in a Franklin-Christoph Neck holster... So the Meme is very honest from my point of view. And I don't think I am alone in the Members here
    Last edited by Silverbreeze; September 25th, 2014 at 11:30 AM.
    Tom
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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    I agree that pens are subjective to our own likes and dislikes. I have been using fountain pens for a few years now, I have been "collecting" more seriously for about a year and change. I used fountain pens for drawing mostly so I used "less expensive" pens which made more sense. Now buying much more expensive pens, it doesn't seem logical to carry and beat them up for drawing purposes, so we have different uses for pens and different expectations.

    The issue is once you start getting much more expensive pens having an "exotic" filling system seems more "worth it." I only say that because once we start paying over $200 for a pen the amount of engineering and thought behind exotic filling systems are more appealing. I think the argument can me made with nibs as well. A gold nib is much more expensive, I have used steel nibs that were much better than gold nibs and vice-versa, but once the price reaches a certain level one expects a more impressive selling point.

    I wouldn't want to buy a $350 pen with a steel nib, and I would find it difficult to buy a $350 pen with a converter, when I could get one with a piston filler or a vacuum. A converter isn't really ever a deal breaker but it is something that has to be taken into consideration.

    Both exotic filling systems and converters have its strengths and weaknesses, but for me particularly the price should be justified by many factors, filling system being one of them. Of course these are my opinions I'm sure everyone has a different idea, but that's how I look at it. The engineering behind the filling mechanism is what attracts me to them, especially when price comes into play.

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbreeze View Post
    So like the Noodler's Ahab but better?
    Same principle, yes.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by brunico View Post

    The solution is for people like you and me to jump in every time a pen is mentioned and come down on it from a great height for not being italic, and therefore not a proper fountain pen. They'd soon get tired, but I'm not sure they'd get the message.
    While I might agree with you about italics, I'm not going to tell everyone about them because that would mean fewer left in the wild for you and me to find

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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by View from the Loft View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by brunico View Post

    The solution is for people like you and me to jump in every time a pen is mentioned and come down on it from a great height for not being italic, and therefore not a proper fountain pen. They'd soon get tired, but I'm not sure they'd get the message.
    While I might agree with you about italics, I'm not going to tell everyone about them because that would mean fewer left in the wild for you and me to find
    Bah you children know NOTHING only a pen that has been passed through the skilled hands of a a Master and tuned like the instrument it is may be called a fountain pen

    ;-)
    Tom
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    Default Re: Let's Reevaluate Converter Filling Fountain Pens

    One of the reasons that I love this topic is that there's no wrong answer. I love seeing the variation of responses. It reminds me that the market is wide with all kinds of preferences. As I develop products, it also reminds me that taking a chance on some offering that might be considered "abnormal", or "not-preferred" will still have an audience.

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