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Thread: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

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    Default Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Hello!

    I have posted in the new members category, and am very excited to be here on such a great forum!

    As I said in my intro, I have 2 Sheaffer's that I am looking to get adjusted, working properly, and ready to write.

    However, I would also like to get a pen to learn to write Flex (?) style?

    I have read so many posts, that I am sort of getting confused, and would appreciate any advice on getting my feet wet, without making ignorant choices in the world of Fountain Pens. I know that I like a Medium-sized pen--not too skinny, as I have a very skinny Mont Blanc--fantastic nib, just don't like the size. (It was a gift)

    Here is what I am looking at:

    * A new Pelikan 600 from nibs.com. As a beginning writing student, is it too much? Too big? Too expensive, since I don't know what I am doing?
    * Something like a Sailor 1911?
    *Some sort of Vintage pen?--I don't really know whom I should buy from, or what I should get...and, if I get a vintage pen, what about the nib?

    I know I am all over the place....I don't know how to narrow down choices, or how to ask the correct questions.

    The reason I was going to go with nibs.com, is because I know they will grind the nibs for me.

    Since I want to learn how to write like some of you do here, I'm also needing to know what type of nib to get?

    Should I go with fine or Medium? Should I start with a Stub or go straight to Italian Cursive?

    Any help will be appreciated.

    Thanks

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    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Cursive Italic.

    First I would suggest you hold off on buying any pens and instead invest that money by attending a show or pen posse (local meeting). If you will tell us where you are we can likely make suggestions.

    For now, instead of buying spend time fondling. Use as many different pens as you can. Fondle, fondle, fondle.

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    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Where do you live?

    The best advice possible is to make your selections and purchases from a fountain pen store (in person) or at a pen show. Whatever anyone tells you means nothing compared to how you think about the pen when you hold it or write with it.

    If there is no possible way to do that, I'd recommend a simple Lamy Safari, with a selection of spare nibs, so you can see if you like extra-fine, fine, medium, broad or stub (that's their 1.1 nib). TWSBI is a good alternative to the Lamy, but it will cost you more to buy the pen and a selection of nibs.

    Either save the flex pen for later, because you can't do everything at once, or just buy a dip pen at an art store and try flex that way. Remember that you can use fountain pen ink with dip pens but you cannot use dip pen ink with fountain pens.

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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    A vintage Pelikan 140 would come with a semi-flex nib at a pretty affordable price under $100 usually, bit on the small size, but one of the easier semi-flex to obtain.

    Far as smaller but not too small I really like my Pelikan M250 with a 14K Medium nib, but it's not a flex nib, feels a little soft but not something that would give line variation (most pens are not going to be flexy unless the model is known specifically for it). So vaguely with 'vintage' anything should assume the nib is going to be firm unless otherwise mentioned (many before 1935 were commonly softer with some ability to give line variation due to the spencerian script that was popular at the time).



    However I did get a Pilot Elite (made on March 24th, 1971 according to the date code) which came with a 18K "Soft" Fine nib, ran me about $36 shipped from Japan.



    makes for a great pocket pen and the grip is quite large (normal length of pen when posted).



    It did better with Blue Steel and Liberty's Elysium.

    But you can see them both in this line up (posted) for size, the Pelikan M250 at the end.



    Other than a modern Noodler's Ahab, the main other pen I have with any degree of flex to it is an old BCHR (Black Chased Hard Rubber) pen, probably 1910-1920, that's a simple lever filler, has a 14K gold nib with some flex.





    Ran me about $50 on that one.

    though I don't recommend getting something that flexes too easily until you learn how to handle it, and not all nibs are designed to flex 3x, 6x, 9x etc, so have to know how much is too much or you risk cracking or springing the nib.

    But yea, the Pelikan 140 is a pretty safe bet unless it seems it'll be too small for you, but I find my M250 to be really comfortable, pen-wise it's not that much bigger, the nib is bigger though (but mine isn't a semi-flex).

    Stubs or cursive italic if you simply want that look of line variations without the risk of damaging the nib from pressing.

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    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Welcome!
    If you want to improve your handwriting, you should try to choose a nib that constricts movement and forces certain motions. Some examples of nibs that do this would be sharp italic nibs, stub nibs, or normal nibs with tooth (meaning they are slightly 'scratchy') and a limited horizontal rotation range. If the nib is too smooth and ballpoint-like, you will not be forced to slow down and therefore improve your handwriting.
    In terms of the pen, I think the Pelikan m600 is a great choice if you are willing to invest that sort of money into the hobby from the get-go. If not, there are a bevy of less expensive pens to choose from. The Pilot Custom 74 is much less expensive (I think ~$160) but is somewhat similar to the m600 in size and quality (both are known to have very nice gold nibs). Vintage pens are my personal favorite but things get tricky (restoration of fillers..etc.) The Parker 51 (aerometric model) is probably the safest bet in the vintage category in terms of "out of the box" reliability, and it isn't too hard to find them with modified stub or italic nibs on FPN or here. It is a medium size pen both in length and girth.
    Hope this helps,
    Will
    If my p.m box is full, feel free to email me at dabantur@gmail.com.

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    With flex you are going to get an armload of advice on starting with a dip pen as its less expensive and the nibs are far more flexible than even the flexiest of vintage FPs. I have a few vintage dip pens that are actually larger in girth but they can be hard to find. But they remain the least expensive, most flexible options.

    My largest pens are a vintage Sheaffer OS Crest that has a nice girth but the nib is slightly to B for my tastes but it is a nice writer. I also have a Karas Kustoms INK that is an EDC pen for me and is absolutely fantastic, imo, in all facets.

    Beginner vintage flex will get you into a world of debate that is almost unrivalled in the FP community. I tend to lean on the side if starting most affordable that way you can see what you like. That being said there can be no sibstitute for trying out a pen before you buy it. However, in the world of limited pen shops/shows a good substitute is a reputable pen restorer/repairer who provides writing samples with his/her pens. I recommend Eversharp Skylines as I have found many to have flexible nibs to varying degrees and while they taper, their barrels where you grip them have a decent girth to them though they are fairly lightweight. They are also quite affordable for a working one. Other options include the larger Moores, Waterman Commandos and larger Mabie Todds though those can be a bit more expensive.

    I wish I had more advice for you hopefully your quest is fruitful.

    Paul

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    PS: If you really want to learn flex with high performance nibs. A cheap route is something like those speedballs, or pick up a little box of Zebra-G nibs ($13 or so for 10 nibs) and a nib holder (like I have a Tachikawa Model 40). Would run you no more than $20 total.

    I'm not all that proficient with using it, but you can see the difference in performance (how far it can go) compared to my fountain pens.

    Ideally you want to have a light enough hand to use it without any line variation, if you can do normal writing with next to no variation then you're at a start. Because if you don't have a light hand, especially with a soft gold flex nib, you're going to crush that little sucker.



    And if you break one... you got a small box full.

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Thank you!

    I live south of Houston, but, find it very hard to get to Houston and get around. I had not thought about pen shows, however. Good thought! Thank you. I need to look at the calendar, I guess, or just search for Pen stores. I really didn't know if they had those types of stores here in the south....

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Thank you--Oh, I appreciate the pics and the writing samples!

    I think to begin with, I am not going to need too much flex, and your examples are encouraging. I know it will take a long while to write with very much line variation, and I do think I would be writing "normal" stuff with any new pen, too....you have given me much to think about....If you were looking for these pens you mentioned, where would you turn?

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!
    TWSBI is a relatively new pen company (around 6 or so years, I think?) that was started with a lot of feedback from the pen community. Modest cost pens, some models had production problems, but they also have very fast customer service.

    There are many online retailers that carry the Lamy Safaris. It is a model that has been made for many years, and even though it is an inexpensive pen, some of the older models or rare colors have become collectors items (I consider them the "Beany Babies" of the pen world). And, yes, the nibs just pull off and push on, and each nib only costs a couple bucks. I don't always favor one retailer over another, but a great place to browse stuff like this (and purchase!) is Goulet Pens. You'll see both TWSBI and Safaris there, along with a lot of other stuff. Have fun.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    OH! See, this is something I thought you guys just did with your everyday pens! Thank you--I feel like a kindergartener trying to get into MIT! LOL!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    What is TWSBI? I keep seeing that. Where do you find Lamy Safaris? I think I'm seeing from your post that if you buy different nibs, you can switch them out? Clever!
    It's a brand of pen from Taiwan. I've avoided it for the most part (cracking issues etc, but excellent customer support), but there are many who love their 580, 540 etc.

    A lot of pens can get their nibs swapped. Lamy will take Lamy Nibs, TWSBI will take their own nib units (But some can be pulled out and swapped with a standard #5 or #6). Some like the cheaper Jinhao X450, X750, 159 take standard #6 (so does Nemosine, Monteverde on many, Noodler's, Taccia, Bexley, etc), which allows you to get some specialty nibs made by other vendors. For example I have a Franklin-Christoph 1.9 Music nib in my Monteverde Invincia Deluxe Nighthawk, and a Goulet Extra-Fine in my Taccia Momenta, but I also had a Goulet 1.5 in my Bexley Jitterbug, and I have a Masuyama Needlepoint nib in #6 coming soon which I'll probably put in my Taccia. (they're friction fit so easy to do). Other than a custom grind with lamy you got EF, F, M, B, 1.1, 1.5 and 1.9.

    I don't care for the Lamy Safari's Tripod style grip, I rather the grip be rounded like that of my Pelikan or Pilot.

    The 1.9 on the Lamy looks something like this:



    I sold my Safari so I don't have it anymore (so not able to compare their 1.9 to my current pens), but the above was done using scotch tape to pull the nib off and put a different nib on while it was still inked. Pretty easy to do, and the feed doesn't come out (where as with the pens that take #5 and #6, you sometimes have to pull the feed in order to re-seat it with a new nib).

    I did the same thing here with my Momenta, just pulling nibs out while inked for comparison (didn't have remove the feed, just slipped the nibs in and out)



    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    Thank you--Oh, I appreciate the pics and the writing samples!

    I think to begin with, I am not going to need too much flex, and your examples are encouraging. I know it will take a long while to write with very much line variation, and I do think I would be writing "normal" stuff with any new pen, too....you have given me much to think about....If you were looking for these pens you mentioned, where would you turn?

    Thanks

    I usually got mine either in trade with other FP users or off ebay. But if you're starting out fresh and have a modern pen in mind or a popular vintage pen, I'd look at one of the reputable retails (Goulet comes to mind for modern, especially if you want a TWSBI, Lamy, etc and live in the United States, otherwise for vintage, nibs.com is a good place to look since if you have a problem they'll help you out, as will Richardspens.com )
    Last edited by KBeezie; November 16th, 2014 at 11:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Thank you, fountainpenkid!

    Yes, the Pelikan is very expensive for me...I just knew they were good pens, frankly, and seem pretty easy to fill without many hassles. Plus, of course, they, like most pens, are very pretty.
    I will check out the Pilot Custom 74, as I have not recognized that one, yet, in all my searches. I will now do some searching on it. One reason that I am a little skittish on vintage, is, until I know what I am doing, I don't want to ruin a beautiful old pen, that may need more care than a clumsy newbie. (Though you may be laughing that I would trust myself with an expensive pen....maybe why I am asking you guys for advice, no? =D)

    I appreciate your wisdom on the nibs. I do think one reason my handwriting is so sloppy is because I had to rush it so in school to keep up with professors. Now, there is no excuse! LOL!!!

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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    Thank you, fountainpenkid!

    Yes, the Pelikan is very expensive for me...I just knew they were good pens, frankly, and seem pretty easy to fill without many hassles. Plus, of course, they, like most pens, are very pretty.
    I will check out the Pilot Custom 74, as I have not recognized that one, yet, in all my searches. I will now do some searching on it. One reason that I am a little skittish on vintage, is, until I know what I am doing, I don't want to ruin a beautiful old pen, that may need more care than a clumsy newbie. (Though you may be laughing that I would trust myself with an expensive pen....maybe why I am asking you guys for advice, no? =D)

    I appreciate your wisdom on the nibs. I do think one reason my handwriting is so sloppy is because I had to rush it so in school to keep up with professors. Now, there is no excuse! LOL!!!
    If you're not afraid to order from abroad, you can get a Custom 74 for about $75 shipped from Japan (takes about 3 to 4 days shipping).

    http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/b...m/fkk-1000r-b/

    I got both my Platinum Century 3776 from them for around $90 shipped instead of paying the local (United States) price of $175+.

    The 742 comes with more nib options Such as SU (Stub), Waverly (WA), Posting (PO), Falcon (FA/flexy), Music (Wet broad stub), and the usual Soft Nibs in a variety of tipping sizes. About $140 shipped if importing into the US.

    http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/b...m/fkk-2000r-b/

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    This is so nice...you are so sweet to help me. Thank you!

    I was thinking that I needed a medium nib, but, you are showing me fines! The look great! Do you find them scratchy for everyday use, though?

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    I think you are being very wise....thank you.

    I see you are Deep South Texas--I am in Texas, too, but, not too far south...

    I am, of course, so excited, I am wanting to just jump off into the deep end, I think...Really, I need to breathe and take your advice!.=)

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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    This is so nice...you are so sweet to help me. Thank you!

    I was thinking that I needed a medium nib, but, you are showing me fines! The look great! Do you find them scratchy for everyday use, though?
    All of mine are pretty smooth. Depends on the pen and your writing style. Most "scratch" comes from the tines being misaligned. And Western fine is bigger than Japanese Fine (Japanese F = Western EF, Jpn M = Western F, etc, Chinese tends to be all over the board but tends to lean to western sizing). The smaller the nib there may be some more feedback, but it's not scratchy, think of it as the feeling you get from a soft pencil on paper. My personal preference is western fine and smaller, but I also write smaller and with a light hand.

    Some do come a little rough (just a little), but I use a 12,000 grit micro-mesh sheet with my $2 Pilot Petit1 to smooth that right up with a couple figure 8s drawn on the pad. Not something for a novice to do but hell it's a $2 pen. So now I got a rather smooth pocket pen with a Japanese fine (mainly use it when I don't want to take my nicer pens).

    If you hit up GouletPens.com they have somehting call the "Nib Nook" shows you writing samples from every pen they sell, so you can compare nib sizes and looks.
    Last edited by KBeezie; November 16th, 2014 at 11:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Quote Originally Posted by ntopens View Post
    Thank you!

    I live south of Houston, but, find it very hard to get to Houston and get around. I had not thought about pen shows, however. Good thought! Thank you. I need to look at the calendar, I guess, or just search for Pen stores. I really didn't know if they had those types of stores here in the south....
    You are in luck. On Rice Blvd in Houston is Dromgoole's. The are great folk and also love introducing folk to fountain pens without any pressure to buy. In addition they have a pen doctor there many Saturdays during the month. Give them a call and explain you are new to fountain pens and just into exploring and fondling and see when you can visit.

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    Default Re: Needing advice --very new--very inexperienced

    Thanks for those suggestions--I admit, I have been scared to go to the overseas stores. But, if you recommend them, perhaps that is the way to go...Do you like your Century? Who makes the 742?

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