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View Full Version : Smoke and mirrors.



ainterne
February 4th, 2015, 06:29 AM
This week 2 pens arrived that I had bought for testing and spares. One of them I knew had a great nib which justified even more my purchase, however the barrel in the pictures left a lot to be desired. With that said, on arrival I was surprised how much better the pen looked. I see that quite often, I have a picture in my mind of the pen from the listing and then when it arrives I am presently surprised. Both fell into that category but one specifically, a Piano Black Parker Duofold I was going to dismantle, immediately changed to the "possibly restore" pile on my desk.

Does that happen to others? Looking back on the pictures the scratches and one particular mark on the barrel seemed somehow amplified in the shots, and the pictures where clear. When I looked at it on arrival I could hardly see it. It made me think about, how going overboard to get perfect pictures can possibly sabotage potential sales.

I have no doubt the top photographers on the forum probably know all about this, and probably how to present the pictures without over accentuating flaws but still reflecting a true representation of the pen. Any suggestions on how to do this are more than welcome.

Thanks....Phil.

Bart Willems
February 4th, 2015, 12:15 PM
While it may hurt you in the short-term on a per-sale basis, not having to deal with the anguish of a dissatisfied customer (and the costs involved with that, when eBay/Paypal is concerned) might lead some sellers to take a cautionary "underpromise/overdeliver" approach.

Yes, the pen you received might be in better condition than expected, but nobody will demand a refund for that. If on the other hand a certain scratch is not visible on the photo you will eventually end up with someone demanding a refund or discount ("gimme a discount or I'll tarnish your reputation")

ainterne
February 4th, 2015, 02:41 PM
While it may hurt you in the short-term on a per-sale basis, not having to deal with the anguish of a dissatisfied customer (and the costs involved with that, when eBay/Paypal is concerned) might lead some sellers to take a cautionary "underpromise/overdeliver" approach.

Yes, the pen you received might be in better condition than expected, but nobody will demand a refund for that. If on the other hand a certain scratch is not visible on the photo you will eventually end up with someone demanding a refund or discount ("gimme a discount or I'll tarnish your reputation")

Hi Bart... I think you misunderstood my mail, this is not about hiding anything or eBay, it's about taking a more true shot of the pen where it's reflected more as the eye would see it. Equally I have seen shots that over emphasise parts of the pen in a way that disappoints when a pen arrives. A typical example is where someone uses shadows and lights to diminish the scratches on a nib, but when seen directly they are more pronounced. I have taken shots of my own nibs before and when seeing them on screen the nib looks much worse than it does to the eye and vice versa. I am trying to learn rules to follow to get a more realistic picture where the camera has less influence over the final result. It goes without saying that a pen should not be misrepresented in a written description, but that should also be the case with the pictures. At the same time here is very little point trying to sell items where you deliberately diminish what you are selling.

Scrawler
February 6th, 2015, 06:28 AM
I have a friend who is an avid photographer. I have asked him in the past to get high quality shots for me, that show what the pen actually looks like, for posting on these forums. With modern high density imaging, and strong lighting it is easy to make a scratch jump out. This is due to the angles of light reflected from the surfaces inside the scratch. He had been attempting to photograph his MB Hemingway to show the depth of colour in the barrel. It took him quite a while to set up each shot to get them right. The first thing you need to do is illuminate the pen really well, but with diffused lighting. To do this you must create a "flash tent". That is a white translucent tent in which the object to be photographed is placed. Put the lens through a hole in the tent and illuminate the whole tent with the flash. This helps to prevents the hotspots that amplify the appearance of scratches.

ainterne
February 7th, 2015, 11:34 AM
I have a friend who is an avid photographer. I have asked him in the past to get high quality shots for me, that show what the pen actually looks like, for posting on these forums. With modern high density imaging, and strong lighting it is easy to make a scratch jump out. This is due to the angles of light reflected from the surfaces inside the scratch. He had been attempting to photograph his MB Hemingway to show the depth of colour in the barrel. It took him quite a while to set up each shot to get them right. The first thing you need to do is illuminate the pen really well, but with diffused lighting. To do this you must create a "flash tent". That is a white translucent tent in which the object to be photographed is placed. Put the lens through a hole in the tent and illuminate the whole tent with the flash. This helps to prevents the hotspots that amplify the appearance of scratches.

Thanks Scrawler...appreciate the input. I think your reply make a lot of sense and it identifies/highlights (excuse pun) the weakness in my setup.

I do have a light tent, I have the camera, all the bits except a good lighting solution. I remember maneuver submitted a post with a picture of his tent and the light set up he used. It made me think at the time that I needed a good light source. To be totally honest I have been a bit reluctant because I am, ok scared about the possibility of fire with bright lights. When I do use it I have someone watching the light and side of the tent when I am taking shots (just in case), I can't keep doing that and I not that fastidious about things normally...it's just fire that sends shivers down my spine. I have some halogen lights on tripods in my garage. They stand about 4 foot tall and give out a huge amount of light I use to work on my cars paintwork....The one thing i know about those is that they give of an enormous amount of heat.

My second question, should I have a constant light output on the lighting and if needed, control the amount of light by distance and or thickness of the tent material. Or should I have a variable light source that I can control and keep the everything else constant. Is it even important to consider these things and am I overthinking it by introducing variables. My wife made me the lightbox and she put a couple of hooks on the side so I can change the color or thickness of material by hanging different materials. She put some holes in the material amples, with two brass rings so that I can just hook the materials off and on quickly. A little like switchable curtains. So far I have discovered that using parchment paper for example gives a very different result to a cloth material. Even with my poor lighting it seems to make quite a bit of difference.

Sometimes I like to buy lots of different solutions to see for myself what works best, but I don't want to experiment with lights.... I would rather pay a bit more if needed and get it right first time. I haven't had time to look but I am sure there must be dedicated lighting solutions for these things. A light with perhaps a diffuser that can be controlled for example.. Again perhaps I am overthinking it and just need to buy something on Amazon and hope it's the right/best solution given my needs. ( I do need to be able to take pictures regularly of pens)....

I am really after the most cost effective, flexible, best, easy to use, safest solution. (not a lot to ask huh? :-))..... again, thanks Scrawler...