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Drow
March 5th, 2015, 09:28 PM
If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!

mhosea
March 5th, 2015, 10:26 PM
I fail to see how the word "hypocrisy" could be rationally applied to either party in this disagreement, at least as I understand it with the limited information that I have available. The "new" ethics are the current ones. Some restrictions of the original ethics were apparently removed at some time in the past. My understanding is that it is Eric, not Dan, who wishes to restore the ethics to their previous, stronger form, and Eric, not Dan, who imposed the time-out.

Drow
March 5th, 2015, 10:47 PM
I fail to see how the word "hypocrisy" could be rationally applied to either party in this disagreement, at least as I understand it with the limited information that I have available. The "new" ethics are the current ones with some restrictions of the original ethics removed. My understanding is that it is Eric, not Dan, who wishes to restore the ethics to their previous, stronger form, and Eric, not Dan, who imposed the time-out.

I support Eric's initiative. But Dan has to accept responsibility for allowing himself to succumb to his self-promotion.

Jon Szanto
March 5th, 2015, 10:47 PM
What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college. ;)

Jon Szanto
March 5th, 2015, 10:52 PM
I support Eric's initiative. But Dan has to accept responsibility for allowing himself to succumb to his self-promotion.

Are there not other repair people who mention their services here? Do people also not recommend and promote members of the pen world who offer various work to be done? Does overseeing the running of the board disallow him to speak about his nib and restoration services?

More to the point, why mention it now? I've not seen anyone complain before. I see no ads on the site, and other than showing the work he does, any "self-promotion" has been pretty benign.

I don't know, just hasn't affected me, but this place is always open for discussion, so if it was an issue, I never saw it brought up.

Drow
March 5th, 2015, 10:58 PM
What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college. ;)

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more :)

Jon Szanto
March 5th, 2015, 11:10 PM
Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more :)

No worries. I'm just trying to urge patience, in my comments here and on other sites, until things are a little more transparent. Drama can snowball pretty fast, and there will be plenty of time to open up these issues when we are certain this home is in place. Hope I didn't seem to come down too hard.

mhosea
March 5th, 2015, 11:30 PM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

cwent2
March 6th, 2015, 12:22 AM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

how do you get coffee out of a monitor - my lol made a mess!

sharmon202
March 6th, 2015, 05:52 AM
Promotion of calm and humor then discussion if needed. Only one of the reasons I live here with you all. Thanks to you all for being here.

Quantum Sailor
March 6th, 2015, 06:36 AM
What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college. ;)

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more :)

I'm curious as to what you found inappropriate about a moderator on a fountain pen site offering nib grinding services? Unless you're someone who is a lot more active on the board hiding behind a different name it doesn't appear that you have been on the site enough to have one opinion or another about it other than mere observation.

Do you offer your own nib services and feel its an unfair advantage?

Do you feel the same way about the posters who put up images of the pens they've turned and the sellers who post images of their pens?

Or do you feel there is some violation of ethics in a person who moderates a site posting their own work on that site?

As to your first post do you feel someone should offer their work for free just out of hopes we have pens that write as we want? If that's the case then your issue should be directed at the world not necessarily one person.

To be fair I don't know Dan except from posts I've read and one or two message exchanges that were very short, so I can't say if hypocrisy is involved in how he does things, I just am curious for a bit more clarification in your statements given the way they were posted.

Farmboy
March 6th, 2015, 07:00 AM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

Drow
March 6th, 2015, 08:12 AM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

sharmon202
March 6th, 2015, 08:20 AM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

So how do we have a forum as this is and not allow it to become a primarily sales tool for anyone, moderator or not. I would not enjoy this if it was taken over and sales driven. Where is the line and how to walk it? Decide how to do this then write the ethic/purpose statement? So people making decisions on posts can or cannot also participate? Just because they participate they cannot be objective? Food for thought I guess. Thanks for moving to contribute, Drow.

tandaina
March 6th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Read the ethical standards again. The OLD standards would have had a problem with the moderator/owner selling items or providing services. But those items (outlined in red on the main page) are *no longer* in the ethical standards. The *current* standards move FPGeeks in a more commercial direction. What isn't clear to me is if the Current standard is how it will stay, or if Eric didn't like that change and wants to go back. Who the *heck* knows. (And I honestly don't give a crap so long as the *forums* stay as they are and up.) I'd be very happy to see the forum part ways with the main FPGeeks website and just let this community run itself.

mhosea
March 6th, 2015, 10:14 AM
I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

Last night I misread that as "or the team I'm on will put me on the beach." That sounded more ominous somehow.

snedwos
March 6th, 2015, 10:19 AM
My take on what happened.

Eric disappeared for a long time.
Dan decided he wanted to change somethings in the site that required a "tweaking" of the ethics statement, and went ahead without counting on Eric.
Eric was upset when he came back ("important ethical standards have simply been removed unilaterally when their presence became inconvenient") and unilaterally "called a timeout".

Dan played hard and fast with what was also Eric's baby, and Eric took his bat home. Nothing that shouldn't sort itself out once adults behave like adults. The Andersons are thankfully mediating, once again proving themselves invaluable to the pen community.

Once this gets sorted it'll be nice to see more of Eric.

Jon Szanto
March 6th, 2015, 10:24 AM
My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Part of the confusion in all of this, confusion which I am mighty interested in getting cleared up, is that there are at least TWO people involved in these issue: one is Dan, who has been running things and is the one who does the pen work (and has raised some issues with you because of that), and the second is Eric, who is the one who (apparently) issued forth the new ethical guidelines. I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two, so one hope it becomes settled, but that may explain some of the contradiction.

snedwos
March 6th, 2015, 10:34 AM
Eric co-wrote the OLD ethical guidelines -- the ones that said "WE DO NOT SELL PENS", I remember that being there.

Once Dan wanted to sell pens, those sections were removed.

snedwos
March 6th, 2015, 10:35 AM
Essentially, what people seem to be confused about is which are the old guidelines, and which the new. The old ones are the ones with the red text on the main page, which didn't allow sales.

dannzeman
March 6th, 2015, 10:40 AM
...The Andersons are thankfully mediating, once again proving themselves invaluable to the pen community...

Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.


...I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two...
There's been no communication. I've called and left a message. I've sent a text message. I've PMed Eric here. I've emailed him at multiple addresses. I've sent messages through various social networks.

He's not responded to any of them.

At this point, I have to assume he no longer wants me involved with FPGeeks.

snedwos
March 6th, 2015, 10:43 AM
I notice you're not listed as a moderator...

Hawk
March 6th, 2015, 10:44 AM
Time will tell. If the issue(s) get resolved, I don't need to know what happened (even though my nosey self would like to know what was going on). Let's keep positive on keeping the forum going and assist in that endevour.

dannzeman
March 6th, 2015, 10:45 AM
I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.

Lady Onogaro
March 6th, 2015, 10:45 AM
I thought that the "timeout" post was a way of complaining that the old ethical standards seems to have been changed (by Dan) without any discussion by the editorial team (Dan and Eric). Eric was pointing out the differences as he saw them. He also seemed to have a concern by sponsors providing pens to review; note the section on accepting gifts, swag, whatever. The concern is that reviewers were or could be influenced to show favoritism by the swag, gifts, presents, etc. I can see that point of view as having some validity. It would be hard to accept gifts and not give that gift a positive review. I have seen it done, but I can imagine it being an uncomfortable situation. That's why I also think it makes sense to then pass along the gift in some way to others on the list in a drawing, which he also mentions as part of the original standards.

I can't understand why offering nib services himself and promoting them would make Dan somehow more biased (no one has to use his services, just like no one has to use anyone else's services that have been recommended). Becoming a retailer would certainly cause conflicts.

tandaina
March 6th, 2015, 10:49 AM
Yeah I wouldn't call it moderating. I'm guessing the Andersons (wisely) reminded Eric that totally alienating the forum community was the fastest way to scuttle FPGeeks for good. Many forum owners in the past have realized (too late) that the folks on a forum really don't care what it's called, or even much what it looks like, so long as the people they are used to talking to are there. If this site had stayed down for long *someone* would have put an alternate location up, gotten the word out, and that would have been the end of that. It's happened before it can happen again.

Jon Szanto
March 6th, 2015, 10:57 AM
I thought that the "timeout" post was a way of complaining that the old ethical standards seems to have been changed (by Dan) without any discussion by the editorial team (Dan and Eric). Eric was pointing out the differences as he saw them. He also seemed to have a concern by sponsors providing pens to review; note the section on accepting gifts, swag, whatever. The concern is that reviewers were or could be influenced to show favoritism by the swag, gifts, presents, etc. I can see that point of view as having some validity. It would be hard to accept gifts and not give that gift a positive review. I have seen it done, but I can imagine it being an uncomfortable situation. That's why I also think it makes sense to then pass along the gift in some way to others on the list in a drawing, which he also mentions as part of the original standards.

I can't understand why offering nib services himself and promoting them would make Dan somehow more biased (no one has to use his services, just like no one has to use anyone else's services that have been recommended). Becoming a retailer would certainly cause conflicts.

Right. But it seems that none of that has any effect on the forums, and there seemed to be precisely ZERO reason for shutting down the forums. Punishing the community of members because of a miscommunication among those who are on the administrative staff? I don't think so. Bad move, thankfully corrected relatively quickly. And still no explanation to ANY of us.

tandaina
March 6th, 2015, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I do find it really weird that Eric hasn't popped in to at least say "Hey."

Jon Szanto
March 6th, 2015, 11:09 AM
I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.

Oh, fuck, that is just lame. This is the kind of shit people avoid other forums over. I'm so upset I'm falling back into using foul language, but... really. We - you - deserve a whole lot better.

And I've just reported a spammer. We'll see how long that takes to get fixed.

snedwos
March 6th, 2015, 11:12 AM
It does seem a trifle petulant, yes.

mhosea
March 6th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Perhaps it is helpful to be reminded sometimes of the ephemeral nature of online forums, dependent as they are on the whims of those who own and control them. As regards the forums, at least, Dan has been the ideal forum-master. So ends an era, perhaps.

Annie
March 6th, 2015, 11:38 AM
If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!

WTF???

Neo
March 6th, 2015, 11:50 AM
If Dan is involved in these wonderfully ethical new standards one would also assume that FP Geeks will no longer shamelessly promote his nib services which I am sure are not being offered for altruistic reasons. What a facade this "time out is"!







The choice of whether to use Dan, Mike, Greg, Deb, etc....as a nibmeister is up to the individual pen owner. Where is the shameless promotion you speak of? I see no evidence of inappropriate self promotion by Dan. There are many forum members that have praised his work and polite communication, but this can also be said of other meisters that serve the FP community.


Keep in mind that Dan had singlehanded kept this forum afloat, providing a place for fountain pen collectors to gather and share their thoughts without being overly moderated. Perhaps you would be more comfortable at a forum that censures members without explanation and suppresses honest reviews that run counter to the admins' business interest.


Im not usually this wordy but I felt compelled to put in my two cents in this case.

Annie
March 6th, 2015, 12:02 PM
Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.


...I am unclear as to how much coordination is going on between the two...
There's been no communication. I've called and left a message. I've sent a text message. I've PMed Eric here. I've emailed him at multiple addresses. I've sent messages through various social networks.

He's not responded to any of them.

At this point, I have to assume he no longer wants me involved with FPGeeks.

Fo9r the record, this small ink stained old lady across the pond wants you to stay right here. I offer nib grinding services too and I'm not remotely interested or bothered by competition. I have no doubt that Dan is better at it than me and I tend to stick to grinding stuff at our regular geek meetings in London. I bet tomorrow that Cob will produce something and say 'do something interesting with it' and between bites of whatever I'm eating and whatever beer I go for, I'll grind a nib or two. Is that a commercial operation? Heck, I'm not even sure I can spell that.

I really like the way Dan runs this place - a light touch and interesting pen chat and you can say fuck and bugger and you don't get hauled out the door and treated like a child. We are allowed to use this place to encourage others to join us for our monthly meetings and discuss Bay State Blue (just bought some and I'm wearing it. So is the cat) and how crap the Lamy Safari is. Frankly I don't give a rat's arse about who sells what and I can say that having been badly burned here. Most of us are grown ups and if we make poor choices - we own 'em. If Dan or anyone else wants to sell nib grinding/pens/their granny/ their soul to the devil here, do I think that is 'unethical'? Nope.

I'm really interested in the detail of this love triangle though. It better be more interesting than Fifty Shades though - gawd, I wasted two days of my life on that.

I apologise in advance for saying bugger and fuck but I'm really pleased that I am able to do so.

Annie
March 6th, 2015, 12:49 PM
I notice you're not listed as a moderator...
Correct. My admin status has been removed. I've been locked out of all accounts associated with FPGeeks, though I was able to regain access to Instagram. And, I have no access to my dan@fpgeeks.com email.

This is crazy.

PeppWaves03
March 6th, 2015, 01:13 PM
What infuriates me is the notion that Eric knew he was going to do this and didn't even have the balls to call Dan and tell him what he was doing and why. For Eric to somehow feel empowered to take down the whole forum is just plain mean spirited. Furthermore, WTF does Anderson pens have to be meddling into this mess? If they really wanted to help, why not ask Eric what the hell he was doing and why when they had him on their podcast this week?! Now Anderson Pen's is giving their opinion on redit and FPN taking sides? If you wanted to take sides, why not ask the questions when you had your forum? I loved the Podcasts and Eric's ramblings when he was on. Eric and Dan have both done a great benefit to us all. They seemed to be really good friends and collaborators in the past and I hope they can remember the good times.

Susan3141
March 6th, 2015, 01:45 PM
Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.

mustud52
March 6th, 2015, 04:36 PM
Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.

As a new member I did not even realise there was a blog, only a forum. Now the main webpage is gone I feel cheated - I lost a girlfriend I never even saw.

Scrawler
March 6th, 2015, 04:41 PM
Don't those ethical guidelines really apply to the FPGeeks Blog and not the forums? I mean, we have a Classifieds forum, so, duh, people are going to sell stuff on the forum. I don't really care what Dan/Eric do with the blog. If Eric didn't like the direction it was taking (i.e. selling pens and nib work), fine. Talk to Dan. But taking down the forums was a ridiculous and harsh thing to do since, as I see the forums, they are separate from the blog.

As a new member I did not even realise there was a blog, only a forum. Now the main webpage is gone I feel cheated - I lost a girlfriend I never even saw.
You have rather missed out. The blog was by turns interesting, funny and informative. I originally found this forum through the blog. It is a great shame it is gone. It had videos, announcements of new products, and competitions. It was fun.

TSherbs
March 6th, 2015, 05:21 PM
Dan can write anything he wants on his own website. If he wants to blog, he can do it there, and you all can read it there.

Farmboy
March 6th, 2015, 05:24 PM
Third green at Augusta. Left two clicks past the 9th at Stoney Pines. Pick up at the 11th tee at Pebble Beach.

Green smoke, two canisters. We will be North of the second puff.

Brian Anderson
March 6th, 2015, 07:40 PM
Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.


We anxiously await your impending video explaining your side of the situation. You seemed confident it would be released soon.

For those that are wondering why we are so-called "meddling" we are not meddling any more than anyone else. Eric has been a very good friend of ours for many years. When he took down the entire site, in order to figure out how to separate things, including the forum, we both (separately) strongly encouraged him to get the forums back up and running first. If that is meddling, my sincere apologies.

Brian

Neo
March 6th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.


We anxiously await your impending video explaining your side of the situation. You seemed confident it would be released soon.

For those that are wondering why we are so-called "meddling" we are not meddling any more than anyone else. Eric has been a very good friend of ours for many years. When he took down the entire site, in order to figure out how to separate things, including the forum, we both (separately) strongly encouraged him to get the forums back up and running first. If that is meddling, my sincere apologies.

Brian


Thank you you for your "meddling," :clap2:I think I wore out the F5 button on my keyboard waiting for the forum to come back online. :smash:

Lady Onogaro
March 6th, 2015, 07:53 PM
Let's get one thing clear, the Andersons are not mediating. They're clearly on Eric's side defending his action.


We anxiously await your impending video explaining your side of the situation. You seemed confident it would be released soon.

For those that are wondering why we are so-called "meddling" we are not meddling any more than anyone else. Eric has been a very good friend of ours for many years. When he took down the entire site, in order to figure out how to separate things, including the forum, we both (separately) strongly encouraged him to get the forums back up and running first. If that is meddling, my sincere apologies.

Brian

Thank you for contacting Eric and encouraging him to bring the forum back. I do not know anything about what is behind all of this; I'm just glad I can contact my friends and forum family members again. I was very worried about that. I hope things get back to normal so we can be one community again.

Dreck
March 6th, 2015, 09:01 PM
What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college. ;)

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more :)

Deal with it. Nobody is forcing you to read the ads or use the service. If it seems so horribly unethical to you, nothing prevents you from starting a site of your own

Drow
March 6th, 2015, 10:42 PM
[QUOTE=Jon Szanto;118537]What Mike said. Above everything else, until and unless the details of what has happened in the last 24 hours, and a more clear telling of just how this site is being run, and by who, any comments made, especially attributing negatives to actions one cannot pinpoint, are... less than helpful.

Yeah. I did major in Run-on Sentences in college. ;)

Fair comments. I guess I am just venting at having recently discovered the nib services on the site which I felt were inappropriate. I will be quiet until we know more :)

Deal with it. Nobody is forcing you to read the ads or use the service. If it seems so horribly unethical to you, nothing prevents you from starting a site of your own[/

The site is down. Feedback was asked for. I responded. Deal with it!

Tony Rex
March 6th, 2015, 10:50 PM
Perhaps we can flush out some more information by promoting misinformation. I'll start. It is all but certain at this point that Dan and Eric have been involved in a disastrous love triangle.

Not exactly. As I posted elsewhere, the FPGeeks forum was used to pass messages between the field operatives and the central office. Dan is not just a guy in a John Deere hat and Iowa t-shirt. Like wise, Eric was not hanging out South of the boarder deep sea fishing and working on his lovely tan. When the means by which the messages were passed was decoded there was no point in using the system because the other team was able to read the correspondence.

I really can't say more or the team I'm on will put me on the bench.

My issue is with the proposed ethical standards that have been posted and how they are inconsistent with someone -moderator or not - promoting an aspect of the site within high- level navigation from which he promotes his own products. If he wants to do that, then fine. Just don't parade some sort of ethical doctrine in the meantime that contradicts that approach. And no, I sm not an active poster but I am an interested reader.

Which gives you an automatic right to parade your ethical standard on dannzeman? :)

Drow
March 6th, 2015, 10:58 PM
Given that he is a moderator of the site, "yes" and based on the ethical standards on which the site was originally conceived, "yes". We were asked to respond to the ethical standards. That's what I'm doing. If you don't want to expose yourself to feedback on your ethical standards then don't waste the time to create them in the first place:

Tony Rex
March 6th, 2015, 11:02 PM
Given that he is a moderator of the site, .. Etc.

But who the fuck are you?

Drow
March 6th, 2015, 11:05 PM
Really????

Tony Rex
March 6th, 2015, 11:13 PM
Really????

Yes, really. When people were holidaying and "reading" he was busy pumping these up https://www.google.com.au/search?q=site:fpgeeks.com+review+size+comparison&rlz=1C9BKJA_enAU621AU621&espv=1&hl=en-GB&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sboxchip=Images&sa=X&ei=qJb6VMXcN9Hj8AWT8oLgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=_

Again. Who are you, Sir?

Scrawler
March 7th, 2015, 07:19 AM
Being a member of this community is voluntary. We can accept how things work, with the nits, personalities, and even commercial interests, of the owners and members, or we can vote with our feet and go elsewhere. I have discovered that I have a much higher probability of meeting people here, who will accept my abrasive personality and become my friends, than any other place. I accept that I disagree on some points with every one, and that everyone will find some part of me disagreeable. However, one does not need to agree with another to like them. That would be as if I had to automatically dislike my neighbour for being a member of a different political party. Human beings, or at least the ones I know, are not shallow like this. I would like this community to survive. If anyone finds any part of how this place is run objectionable, there are alternative fora. If advertising and even selling are required to enable it to survive, I would accept that. Any of us should be able to recognize and ignore adverts and promotion. It would be nice if promotion was identified as such, but even if not, I feel that the members I have interacted with are intelligent enough to recognize it for what it is, and even call people out on it. I, like all people, put greater weight on the opinion of those I know and trust, as a result of interacting with them. There are "takers" in this world, who contribute nothing of themselves, but rather suck up what others have produced. It is difficult to have the same high regard for the opinions of such people, as it is for those we interact with frequently.

TSherbs
March 7th, 2015, 07:42 AM
Given that he is a moderator of the site, .. Etc.

But who the fuck are you?

I woke up in a Soho doorway
A policeman knew my name
He said "You can go sleep at home tonight
If you can get up and walk away"

jbb
March 7th, 2015, 08:14 AM
It seems pretty normal that people on pen sites would promote selling pens and pen services.

mhosea
March 7th, 2015, 10:03 AM
It seems pretty normal that people on pen sites would promote selling pens and pen services.

This is true, but the context here is more complicated. We haven't heard Dan's story on what has transpired prior to the shutdown, but over the last few days, We've learned, I've learned, that the site was founded under some guiding principles that included that the site would not be selling pens and ink. There would be advertisements, but that the site would be operating as a publisher in this respect, not as a partner. It was envisioned that the site might sell things like the FPG lapel pins, coffee mugs, and whatnot, little things that promoted the site per se, and which incidentally, though this was not a stated advantage, would not put it in competition with its potential paying advertisers.

What I did not know before was that Dan was a Pelikan dealer. Maybe he isn't. I have no direct knowledge of it. But I read that somewhere else, and it fits something. I saw his announcement that the new gray 805's were "in". I thought he might have organized a group buy or something. I didn't care. I'm thinking now that he might have been acting as a dealer. The promotion of his nib grinding services might have been OK as long as he was, in that respect, a paid advertiser. Even if he was acting as a Pelikan dealer and getting free advertising on both Pelikan sales and nib services, this is not unethical in a general way. It merely violates the site's ethical charter. But the plot thickens. If Dan unilaterally removed the provisions in the founding ethical standards of the site in order to make it possible for him to do exactly what he did without violating the ethical standards of the site, then this could be regarded as an abuse/usurpation of power. That is not an ethical action. There is some indication that Eric was angry about this, at least, so perhaps he regarded the revision as a betrayal of his trust. Clearly he regarded the commercialization of the site as a corruption of its intended purpose.

Nevertheless, all of this should be mitigated by Dan's tireless service to the site, which in no small part has kept it alive and growing so that there is anything to talk about in the first place. IMHO, Eric made a tactical error, especially given the context of him "returning". Rather than doing a combination Second-Coming and Jesus-Cleansing-the-Temple act, if he if he felt that there was no coming back from this situation with Dan as the admin, the best way of handling it was quietly, offering Dan the opportunity to resign, allowing him to give whatever public reasons he wished. It isn't about the individuals involved, rather for the benefit of the community/company/etc. I think that would still be true even if there were a great deal more to the story, and there are hints that there is more.

snedwos
March 7th, 2015, 10:53 AM
It seems pretty normal that people on pen sites would promote selling pens and pen services.

This is true, but the context here is more complicated. We haven't heard Dan's story on what has transpired prior to the shutdown, but over the last few days, We've learned, I've learned, that the site was founded under some guiding principles that included that the site would not be selling pens and ink. There would be advertisements, but that the site would be operating as a publisher in this respect, not as a partner. It was envisioned that the site might sell things like the FPG lapel pins, coffee mugs, and whatnot, little things that promoted the site per se, and which incidentally, though this was not a stated advantage, would not put it in competition with its potential paying advertisers.

What I did not know before was that Dan was a Pelikan dealer. Maybe he isn't. I have no direct knowledge of it. But I read that somewhere else, and it fits something. I saw his announcement that the new gray 805's were "in". I thought he might have organized a group buy or something. I didn't care. I'm thinking now that he might have been acting as a dealer. The promotion of his nib grinding services might have been OK as long as he was, in that respect, a paid advertiser. Even if he was acting as a Pelikan dealer and getting free advertising on both Pelikan sales and nib services, this is not unethical in a general way. It merely violates the site's ethical charter. But the plot thickens. If Dan unilaterally removed the provisions in the founding ethical standards of the site in order to make it possible for him to do exactly what he did without violating the ethical standards of the site, then this could be regarded as an abuse/usurpation of power. That is not an ethical action. There is some indication that Eric was angry about this, at least, so perhaps he regarded the revision as a betrayal of his trust. Clearly he regarded the commercialization of the site as a corruption of its intended purpose.

Nevertheless, all of this should be mitigated by Dan's tireless service to the site, which in no small part has kept it alive and growing so that there is anything to talk about in the first place. IMHO, Eric made a tactical error, especially given the context of him "returning". Rather than doing a combination Second-Coming and Jesus-Cleansing-the-Temple act, if he if he felt that there was no coming back from this situation with Dan as the admin, the best way of handling it was quietly, offering Dan the opportunity to resign, allowing him to give whatever public reasons he wished. It isn't about the individuals involved, rather for the benefit of the community/company/etc. I think that would still be true even if there were a great deal more to the story, and there are hints that there is more.

This.

Quantum Sailor
March 7th, 2015, 02:02 PM
It seems pretty normal that people on pen sites would promote selling pens and pen services.

This is true, but the context here is more complicated. We haven't heard Dan's story on what has transpired prior to the shutdown, but over the last few days, We've learned, I've learned, that the site was founded under some guiding principles that included that the site would not be selling pens and ink. There would be advertisements, but that the site would be operating as a publisher in this respect, not as a partner. It was envisioned that the site might sell things like the FPG lapel pins, coffee mugs, and whatnot, little things that promoted the site per se, and which incidentally, though this was not a stated advantage, would not put it in competition with its potential paying advertisers.

What I did not know before was that Dan was a Pelikan dealer. Maybe he isn't. I have no direct knowledge of it. But I read that somewhere else, and it fits something. I saw his announcement that the new gray 805's were "in". I thought he might have organized a group buy or something. I didn't care. I'm thinking now that he might have been acting as a dealer. The promotion of his nib grinding services might have been OK as long as he was, in that respect, a paid advertiser. Even if he was acting as a Pelikan dealer and getting free advertising on both Pelikan sales and nib services, this is not unethical in a general way. It merely violates the site's ethical charter. But the plot thickens. If Dan unilaterally removed the provisions in the founding ethical standards of the site in order to make it possible for him to do exactly what he did without violating the ethical standards of the site, then this could be regarded as an abuse/usurpation of power. That is not an ethical action. There is some indication that Eric was angry about this, at least, so perhaps he regarded the revision as a betrayal of his trust. Clearly he regarded the commercialization of the site as a corruption of its intended purpose.

Nevertheless, all of this should be mitigated by Dan's tireless service to the site, which in no small part has kept it alive and growing so that there is anything to talk about in the first place. IMHO, Eric made a tactical error, especially given the context of him "returning". Rather than doing a combination Second-Coming and Jesus-Cleansing-the-Temple act, if he if he felt that there was no coming back from this situation with Dan as the admin, the best way of handling it was quietly, offering Dan the opportunity to resign, allowing him to give whatever public reasons he wished. It isn't about the individuals involved, rather for the benefit of the community/company/etc. I think that would still be true even if there were a great deal more to the story, and there are hints that there is more.

I agree with snedwos in ^this.

I would just like to add one bit to the statement if I may without overstepping bounds. I got the impression from other posts on this site that Eric had moved on and was no longer participating in FPGeeks. If that impression is correct and that was how things were left then he really has no say in the direction that Dan went with the site. In fact I would say that if that was the case then the "jesus cleansing the temple" thing (which I totally agree with the phrasing you used) is completely out of bounds. You don't get to abdicate your controlling interest then dislike how things went and snatch it back and still be the returning savior. If you were that concerned in the first place abdicating your controlling interest shouldn't have happened.

But again the standard disclaimer prevails. I am only going on the little I have seen, I don't know any involved personally, I'm just put off by the whole scenario and the more I think about it the more I'm coming down on the side of it was a fucked up way to handle a person who ran your site for years, if in fact you retained controlling interest in the site. Excuse the language but that's about the only way I can express what I'm thinking about it.

I would also like to point out that the innuendoes thrown out by those involved are also not doing anything to incur favorable views from this direction. The blatant innuendo that struck me was that Eric is reachable and implying that Dan wasn't trying to reach him. If it wasn't intended to suggest this then it shouldn't have been stated as such. But again as I stated in a different post, I find a lot of irony that a pen business is one of the big players in a squabble over conflicts of interests with pen businesses.

elaineb
March 7th, 2015, 03:10 PM
I don't know Dan nor Eric, I haven't been here that long. But I know that when a big rift opens suddenly between two people who consider themselves a team, it's a no-man's land of emotional turmoil. It is very hard to navigate, to figure out what to do about it. In these situations, people very often make decisions that are baffling to people outside their heads and hearts. Think about the first time someone dumped you with no warning, for instance. Did you do nice, rational things in those hours right afterwards? I know I didn't. I hadn't a clue how to respond and did some pretty dumb things in a sad attempt to fix things and find some balance.

Now of course whatever rift happened between Dan and Eric, it's not the same as getting dumped, but I'm sure it was still pretty emotional for them. Their sense of team had been damaged, after all. That's hard for anyone. So I'm not going to voice criticism over lack of judgement or behavioral decisions made in the wake of getting blindsided by conflict. I am sure that both Dan and Eric were doing the very best they could at the time. I have my own pile of stupid things done with great sincerity at the wrong time. It's part of being human, and these are the things that we, as friends, can simply let flow into the past.

I applaud how many people here have shown restraint and respect over these past days. This kind of tolerance speaks to the maturity of this forum, and is a good indicator that FPGeeks isn't going to break apart and go away any time soon. I am very glad that I have found you guys. :)

Mags
March 7th, 2015, 03:25 PM
I missed the event it seems. All I can say is Eric I like this site. Dan you have been a good steward of the site over the past couple of years. I truly hope you both resolve the issues and we can continue to enjoy all things about pens and ink .

I don't mind some commercial aspects to the site. The quality of videos and reviews on the forum has been excellent since the podcasts stopped. I do like the after sale ads and have bought from a few people thanks to this forum. Finally, I don't mind Dan marketing his nib work. Eric I suspect you built and financed this site. Thank you also.

HughC
March 8th, 2015, 05:00 PM
I don't have an issue with people who own/run sites such as this having some commercial focus, money is a fact of life. I have no issue with Wim over at FPN taking a clearly commercial approach to fund his forum and if he makes a few dollars well and good. The issue only becomes problematic (imo) if it becomes a prominent part of the site and starts to affect the non-commercial sections such as this forum, the effects are obvious on FPN where the commercial aspect makes it unappealing to a lot. I see no real commercialization of this forum, the moderation didn't reflect it and the sales section is small and far from prominent and seems to operate as intended. I disagree with the OP.

At the end of the day any issues here simply reflect differences between Eric and Dan.

Regards
Hugh

mhosea
March 8th, 2015, 06:37 PM
Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

Jon Szanto
March 8th, 2015, 11:28 PM
Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Tony Rex
March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

mustud52
March 9th, 2015, 02:48 AM
Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

Hey Tony, I haven't met you, despite us both being in Melbourne. Melbourne is big, right?

I thought your very early post on this subject was spot on - something along the lines of let's get on with enjoying pens.

The guys involved will work things through for better or worse. They both know their individual points of view and personal qualities are respected and valued by various members. They are unlikely to crumble into desperate and blubbering tragics.

Of course that is easy for me to say - I am a newbie.

ps, where is you blog, I would be interested to read and see more of your excellent photos.

Tony Rex
March 9th, 2015, 03:22 AM
Hugh, I don't think the forums, including the sales part, ever had anything to do with anything in this matter. It was an accident, apparently, that the forums were even affected by a brief shutdown. It's all about the main page fpgeeks.com. It did come as surprise to me to learn that Dan was not the site owner.

And, since the forums have been run single-handedly in an exemplary manner by Dan for a very extended period of time, his summary removal with no explanation affects each and every member of the forum, to degrees large and small. That the true net worth of any forum is the interaction of the participants, and the content that they provide, seems to have been lost in this. My comfort in being a member, my willingness to contribute time, intellectual property, and good will to the content stream of this forum is very much tied to the manner in which it has been run. I have exactly 0.00% interest in how affairs are managed on every other part of fpgeeks.com, because I view that as unidirectional content distribution, completely up to the owner.

Thanks Jon for putting it that way, because that's exactly how I felt. I regret posting my stuff here, most of whom before I even put them on the blog—so you don't have to visit my shitty blog—. I even thought of removing stuff, but that wouldn't be fair to others who have shown appreciation or would do so later. I'm sad to lose a nice drinking hole, but hey, such is life ay? But I'm not so sure I want to comply with someone's vocabulary after their dictionary throwing exercise. I just can't help but wonder if a fine bloke like dannzeman was dispensable then surely the rest of us would be just numbers?

But I'm willing to wait and see and hoping for the best.

Hey Tony, I haven't met you, despite us both being in Melbourne. Melbourne is big, right?

I thought your very early post on this subject was spot on - something along the lines of let's get on with enjoying pens.

The guys involved will work things through for better or worse. They both know their individual points of view and personal qualities are respected and valued by various members. They are unlikely to crumble into desperate and blubbering tragics.

Of course that is easy for me to say - I am a newbie.

ps, where is you blog, I would be interested to read and see more of your excellent photos.

Hiya mustud, Wish I could welcome you proper mate but I'm kinda busy packing myself ha! I'm glad you're agreeing with my point earlier but with things abuzz lately, it's hard to avoid making the point I just made above, which Jon had eloquently put. As for the blog, just lookup the threads I started for pics. You won't find most of those pics on my blog anyway. I'm so glad the labour day long weekend is over for us Victorians. Mine tasted like ashes because of this nonsense.

Again, from now on I'm simply waiting and seeing.

swanjun
March 10th, 2015, 02:46 PM
Personally, if I owned a website, even if I were not very involved with it anymore, I would be really freaked out by it suddenly becoming a commercial venture. A commercial venture that I suddenly, basically, owned without knowledge or consent. What are the financial repercussions, for example? Would I have to suddenly file self-employment taxes? Claim profits as income? It would be a lot of stuff that I would not want to deal with or worry about, if all I had ever envisioned was an informative website.

Jon Szanto
March 10th, 2015, 02:49 PM
Personally, if I owned a website, even if I were not very involved with it anymore, I would be really freaked out by it suddenly becoming a commercial venture. A commercial venture that I suddenly, basically, owned without knowledge or consent. What are the financial repercussions, for example? Would I have to suddenly file self-employment taxes? Claim profits as income? It would be a lot of stuff that I would not want to deal with or worry about, if all I had ever envisioned was an informative website.

A. It wasn't sudden.
B. If it is yours, you need to pay attention to it, not sit around for a long time and then freak out.
C. You haven't said what kind of directives you gave to those running the website you owned.

... and a lot of other stuff. The primary cause of so many of our questions is the complete lack of transparency as to what actually occurred. It's all pretty much a mystery. Not good.

pajaro
March 10th, 2015, 06:25 PM
My wavering interest in pens having kept me away for a short while, I was intrigued by this thread, which is unsurprising, given the indulgent way this site has been run and the number of comments I have seen here before which were strong, and there is also the indulgence toward certain language, ah, hum, trying to make a longer run on sentence . . .

Interesting doings, anyway. Think of some of the comments here and imagine the reaction to their being made on another site.

Special K
March 10th, 2015, 10:03 PM
I don't know Dan nor Eric, I haven't been here that long. But I know that when a big rift opens suddenly between two people who consider themselves a team, it's a no-man's land of emotional turmoil. It is very hard to navigate, to figure out what to do about it. In these situations, people very often make decisions that are baffling to people outside their heads and hearts. Think about the first time someone dumped you with no warning, for instance. Did you do nice, rational things in those hours right afterwards? I know I didn't. I hadn't a clue how to respond and did some pretty dumb things in a sad attempt to fix things and find some balance.

Now of course whatever rift happened between Dan and Eric, it's not the same as getting dumped, but I'm sure it was still pretty emotional for them. Their sense of team had been damaged, after all. That's hard for anyone. So I'm not going to voice criticism over lack of judgement or behavioral decisions made in the wake of getting blindsided by conflict. I am sure that both Dan and Eric were doing the very best they could at the time. I have my own pile of stupid things done with great sincerity at the wrong time. It's part of being human, and these are the things that we, as friends, can simply let flow into the past.

I applaud how many people here have shown restraint and respect over these past days. This kind of tolerance speaks to the maturity of this forum, and is a good indicator that FPGeeks isn't going to break apart and go away any time soon. I am very glad that I have found you guys. :)

Hi, Elaine. I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of how many people have shown restraint. At the very least, most of the comments have been insulting towards Eric. At worst, they have been downright vulgar. I don't know either of these men, and they certainly don't know me. On one hand, it's nice that so many people like DAN, but on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric. Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them. This would be a great place to lock this thread. The same thing has been said hundred different ways. Let's put this old horse to rest.🚫 more nastiness, Please.

Jon Szanto
March 10th, 2015, 10:15 PM
... on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric.

Really? I certainly can think of one post that went there, from a friend of Eric's, and Eric addressed it. Others? Strong opinions, sure; colorful language, I'll own up to that. But I don't see people being "vile and disgusting", but honestly upset. Don't blame them, as I feel the same.


Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them.

Ok, cowboy, you need to take a step back. Unless you are claiming you haven't seen the Facebook post, or the copy of it here, where Lisa A. pretty much accused Dan of embezzlement, including the use of some figures that - if factual - could only have been supplied by Eric, well... The least you need to do is apologize yourself to Dan. If you actually knew of those comments and figures, you need to apologize to everyone else, as well.


This would be a great place to lock this thread.

Wait, you've made 2 posts in this forum and you are telling people about locking threads? GTFO. Seriously, it doesn't work like that here.

Jon Szanto
March 10th, 2015, 10:51 PM
I just thought it would be fun to report a "Reputation Comment" that I just received:


Jon santo is the ring leader. He's also the rudest still using profanity he keeps using this language because he thinks the owner won't do anythin

I'm guessing I've made a true friend in Special K, with my stooping to take exception with his assessments of the sturm und drang. Mr. K, care to comment? Any thoughts on my other posts in the forum, like the one I made earlier today on correspondence and journaling? Hmmm?

<crickets>

P.S. For goodness sake, when you insult someone, at least spell their name correctly.
P.P.S. I was going to put an image up of a "ring leader", but... well, if you want some lulz, do a Google image search. Yeah, not going there.

Special K
March 10th, 2015, 11:48 PM
Your behavior is vile and contemptible. Your words are vulgar and obscene

Special K
March 10th, 2015, 11:52 PM
Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Jon Szanto
March 11th, 2015, 12:01 AM
Your behavior is vile and contemptible. Your words are vulgar and obscene

Please note the first person that welcomed you to this forum. Odd, that.

Mr/Ms K, you have 4 posts at this point, and have been a member for a handful of days. You have seen posts from me using the most flamboyant language, and what you have not seen are a couple of years worth of posts that come from a very different place. My passion, and my colorful descriptions, are due to some very difficult issues that this forum is dealing with, issues that go back beyond TWO YEARS before you even joined.

Try to take some of this into account.

I'd also like to inform you, if you hadn't noticed it, that this forum does not censure people, nor does it specify behavioral rules to the extent that it stifles free speech. One is obliged to note that a full use of language, from the most mundane to the most rambunctious, has deep roots in our culture:


You taught me language. And my profit on’t
Is, I know how to curse.

~Wm. Shakespeare: The Tempest

I'm no Bill S., believe me. And I don't post like what you may have been seeing often, or without reason. If adult language truly offends you, I can't help you. That issue is in your court. I simply believe in being honest, in fact, deed, and heart.

Jon Szanto
March 11th, 2015, 12:07 AM
Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Let me know if you like the song. I only post songs for my very special friends.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80zkcGiYv9Y

mustud52
March 11th, 2015, 12:08 AM
This becoming very corrosive. As a very recent member I have no idea of the merits of the various positions. What I do know is that the repeated emphasizing of these positions does not add much beyond what was put in the early posts - other than to make FPG increasingly less pleasant for a newcomer.

Quantum Sailor
March 11th, 2015, 12:27 AM
I just thought it would be fun to report a "Reputation Comment" that I just received:


Jon santo is the ring leader. He's also the rudest still using profanity he keeps using this language because he thinks the owner won't do anythin

I'm guessing I've made a true friend in Special K, with my stooping to take exception with his assessments of the sturm und drang. Mr. K, care to comment? Any thoughts on my other posts in the forum, like the one I made earlier today on correspondence and journaling? Hmmm?

<crickets>

P.S. For goodness sake, when you insult someone, at least spell their name correctly.
P.P.S. I was going to put an image up of a "ring leader", but... well, if you want some lulz, do a Google image search. Yeah, not going there.

I feel cheated all I got was an unexplained "rude" for questioning a posters motivations.... I didn't realize you were a ring leader though John, did I join the ring? How long have I been involved? If the answer is no what do I have to do to join the ring and become involved?

Quantum Sailor
March 11th, 2015, 12:54 AM
I don't know Dan nor Eric, I haven't been here that long. But I know that when a big rift opens suddenly between two people who consider themselves a team, it's a no-man's land of emotional turmoil. It is very hard to navigate, to figure out what to do about it. In these situations, people very often make decisions that are baffling to people outside their heads and hearts. Think about the first time someone dumped you with no warning, for instance. Did you do nice, rational things in those hours right afterwards? I know I didn't. I hadn't a clue how to respond and did some pretty dumb things in a sad attempt to fix things and find some balance.

Now of course whatever rift happened between Dan and Eric, it's not the same as getting dumped, but I'm sure it was still pretty emotional for them. Their sense of team had been damaged, after all. That's hard for anyone. So I'm not going to voice criticism over lack of judgement or behavioral decisions made in the wake of getting blindsided by conflict. I am sure that both Dan and Eric were doing the very best they could at the time. I have my own pile of stupid things done with great sincerity at the wrong time. It's part of being human, and these are the things that we, as friends, can simply let flow into the past.

I applaud how many people here have shown restraint and respect over these past days. This kind of tolerance speaks to the maturity of this forum, and is a good indicator that FPGeeks isn't going to break apart and go away any time soon. I am very glad that I have found you guys. :)

Hi, Elaine. I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of how many people have shown restraint. At the very least, most of the comments have been insulting towards Eric. At worst, they have been downright vulgar. I don't know either of these men, and they certainly don't know me. On one hand, it's nice that so many people like DAN, but on the other hand these same people have been utterly vile and disgusting in there contempt for Eric. Dan, if you want to do your part to facilitate healing, you might consider apologizing to the Andersons for publicly insulting them. This would be a great place to lock this thread. The same thing has been said hundred different ways. Let's put this old horse to rest.🚫 more nastiness, Please.

While I agree that things have become a little more heated about the topic than may or may not have been expected, I don't think, and hope this board doesn't go the direction of locking threads. You're a new member and may be more used to a different type of board, or maybe some of us just aren't up to the "class" of participants you're used to. However some of us like reading opinions and getting alternative views on things. In this particular instance there is a lot of history that given your amount of participation in the forums up to this point you may not be aware of, or even if you are aware of it you may just have a different view, not sure, but there are strong views.

I would say that in all seriousness your reputation comments seem more like baiting and instigation rather than your professed purpose of making things less vulgar. Maybe the purpose is "shaming" those you see as instigators or just trying to bait the new moderator/owner/whoever is actually at the helm of the board these days into taking some kind of action, I can't say because I don't know. Maybe you would like to elaborate that purpose? I will reiterate what I've said before, the people in this board are very kind and I feel lucky to have met them in as much as I have, I have found most to be rational and very justified in their statements, even when I don't agree with them. Never have I seen a term like unladylike used on this board. I like it that way..exactly what is ladylike? Would you prefer a lady keep her opinions to herself when you don't agree with them? I find that women have great opinions and enjoy hearing them just as much as men. (yes I'm referring to a reputation comment you posted earlier)

Maybe sitting back and looking at the board for what it is would help you get a feel for how things are here, look in the market feedback, look in the other sections, you'll see the normal good and bad. The past week or so has been a very strange one around here and I think judging the board for it in isolation is probably a disservice to the board. I accept responsibility for all my posts, they are my opinions in as much as the information I have been given, if I have made an erroneous opinion in your judgement then by all means feel free to point out my flaws in logic and deductive reasoning. I will thank you for it and learn from it. If you have issues with me questioning motivations and statements when I don't understand them then I'm sorry I have nothing to offer you, for I will always do so unapologetically. I would also like to point out that the questions in the post you deemed rude remain unanswered and are still valid in my opinion. I believe that most here go to great lengths not to attack the poster personally and simply take issue/a stance on what is said and respect the person.

I'm not sure what credentials you possess in board moderation, conflict mediation, etc however maybe you should elaborate on those if you would like to promote one way or another. Maybe you have information the rest of us don't or maybe you're just smarter than I am and see how things fall in line in ways I don't. Regardless, you come across differently than that to me in your posts.

Welcome to the board.

QS

Holsworth
March 11th, 2015, 01:08 AM
http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/9/98/Popcorn.gif

youstruckgold
March 11th, 2015, 02:11 AM
lol! Couldn't have put it better myself!

picautomaton
March 11th, 2015, 02:25 AM
'Lock This Thread' noOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Over at FPN they lock threads with thread sealant so tight you wouldn't believe it even existed, like poof! gone. I accept that because that is their way and when I comment at FPN I feel like a lobotomised patient.

No locking of threads, freedom of speech please!

Ste_S
March 11th, 2015, 02:29 AM
*snip* You're a new member and may be more used to a different type of board, or maybe some of us just aren't up to the "class" of participants you're used to. However some of us like reading opinions and getting alternative views on things. *snip*

I haven't spent much time on here. I came back as I liked Dan's blog and Youtube content, and wanted to see what happened.
What will probably make me stay though is the refreshing attitude this forum has to debate. Strong opinions can be aired without hackles being raised and threads being locked, with most members policing themselves. Well, apart from the odd one (Hi Special K).

Hopefully the forum will continue in this direction under it's new(old) leadership

HughC
March 11th, 2015, 04:34 AM
I just thought it would be fun to report a "Reputation Comment" that I just received:


Jon santo is the ring leader. He's also the rudest still using profanity he keeps using this language because he thinks the owner won't do anythin

I'm guessing I've made a true friend in Special K, with my stooping to take exception with his assessments of the sturm und drang. Mr. K, care to comment? Any thoughts on my other posts in the forum, like the one I made earlier today on correspondence and journaling? Hmmm?

<crickets>

P.S. For goodness sake, when you insult someone, at least spell their name correctly.
P.P.S. I was going to put an image up of a "ring leader", but... well, if you want some lulz, do a Google image search. Yeah, not going there.

That's an absolutely absurd view of Jon's input, the person who wrote that should be ashamed of his/her ability stoop to such lows of ignorance and pettiness. I've known Jon ( on the net, never had the chance to meet in person) for a number of years, yes he's a person who expresses his opinions and feelings strongly, from the heart and I respect that even though I don't always agree, respecting differing viewpoints is a sign of maturity and leads to better outcomes as well. This issue, and to a degree it's a grieving process, isn't and shouldn't be hallmarked by such disgraceful comments aimed at a person who I believe always supports the views he believes in and sticks by people he believes in. I've said it elsewhere but people who stick by their friends/people they respect are the people you want around when things go wrong, an admirable trait (regardless of who's right or wrong). By all means disagree with Jon but do so on the facts not on some preconceived notion that defies both logic and reality.

Regards
Hugh

HughC
March 11th, 2015, 04:40 AM
Back door rubbish by gutless cowards really annoys me.....

mhosea
March 11th, 2015, 04:49 AM
I feel cheated all I got was an unexplained "rude" for questioning a posters motivations.... I didn't realize you were a ring leader though John, did I join the ring? How long have I been involved? If the answer is no what do I have to do to join the ring and become involved?

Unfortunately, newbies can't actually affect your reputation score, no rep power. But I just sent you a present. :)

mhosea
March 11th, 2015, 05:55 AM
Unless you are claiming you haven't seen the Facebook post, or the copy of it here, where Lisa A. pretty much accused Dan of embezzlement, including the use of some figures that - if factual - could only have been supplied by Eric, well...

BTW, my reaction to that post on FB was a little different in nature. While some censured Lisa A. for suggesting "embezzlement", I felt that was an overreaction. I interpreted it from a human perspective rather than a legal one. Emotions were running high. To me it was "a slip", something she knew about Eric's more candid, unfiltered concerns that he didn't want to talk to us about (which to me seems wise on his part).

Crazyorange
March 11th, 2015, 06:20 AM
Sorry if this has been posted in the thread......Dan embezzling? Huh? Can someone fill in the blanks....I missed something. Lisa A made this statement? Has Eric backed this up? Or was the red lettering in the ethics statement hinting at that? Is this just continuing the whole vagueness of the situation.

I really can't see Dan doing that. Embezzling? Come on. How much money can be involved in that?? (Rolling my eyes here). We are talking of fountain pens and not Wall Street, right???

But anyway.....why did we get punished?

I'm glad this conversion didn't get locked. It's important to me (and I believe the rest of us) to have place to discuss this. To me it's important to get clarity around it because I'm worried the forum could disappear. The hasty rush of Eric leaves me to wonder what will happen next.

Don't worry Jon I like your statements, even when rude. ;)
Maybe Special K is upset at not getting a spam pic?

mhosea
March 11th, 2015, 07:10 AM
Sorry if this has been posted in the thread......Dan embezzling? Huh? Can someone fill in the blanks....I missed something. Lisa A made this statement? Has Eric backed this up? Or was the red lettering in the ethics statement hinting at that? Is this just continuing the whole vagueness of the situation.

I really can't see Dan doing that. Embezzling? Come on. How much money can be involved in that?? (Rolling my eyes here). We are talking of fountain pens and not Wall Street, right???


I propose that we stop throwing that word around. Lisa A. raised what was, IMHO, a "hostile" but legitimate question over what donation funds to the site were actually used for, given that the funds go to a personal rather than site account. Someone else interpreted that as an accusation. Maybe Eric's absentee status necessitated it being a personal account. Maybe the money paid for software, or maybe it paid for A/V equipment used to make site content. There certainly can be legitimate responses. There has been no response of substance, however, only a statement of the obvious (Lisa A., and everybody else, apparently, doesn't have all the facts).

Crazyorange
March 11th, 2015, 07:12 AM
Sorry if this has been posted in the thread......Dan embezzling? Huh? Can someone fill in the blanks....I missed something. Lisa A made this statement? Has Eric backed this up? Or was the red lettering in the ethics statement hinting at that? Is this just continuing the whole vagueness of the situation.

I really can't see Dan doing that. Embezzling? Come on. How much money can be involved in that?? (Rolling my eyes here). We are talking of fountain pens and not Wall Street, right???


I propose that we stop throwing that word around. Lisa A. raised what was, IMHO, a "hostile" but legitimate question over what donation funds to the site were actually used for, given that the funds go to a personal rather than site account. Someone else interpreted that as an accusation. Maybe Eric's absentee status necessitated it being a personal account. Maybe the money paid for software, or maybe it paid for A/V equipment used to make site content. There certainly can be legitimate responses. There has been no response of substance, however, only a statement of the obvious (Lisa A., and everybody else, apparently, doesn't have all the facts).

That makes things clearer. Thanks.

elaineb
March 11th, 2015, 07:16 AM
Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Um, with all respect, no one else wants him to "do it elsewhere." We very much like having him among us. Have -you-contributed to the community in any way except to encourage divisiveness? Your behavior fits the definition of a troll, but I can't figure if it's intentional or not. To give you the benefit of the doubt, here's a start: what's your favorite fountain pen? What do you think of flexy gold nibs? Do you like orange inks?

Ste_S
March 11th, 2015, 07:23 AM
Sorry if this has been posted in the thread......Dan embezzling? Huh? Can someone fill in the blanks....I missed something. Lisa A made this statement? Has Eric backed this up? Or was the red lettering in the ethics statement hinting at that? Is this just continuing the whole vagueness of the situation.

I really can't see Dan doing that. Embezzling? Come on. How much money can be involved in that?? (Rolling my eyes here). We are talking of fountain pens and not Wall Street, right???


I propose that we stop throwing that word around. Lisa A. raised what was, IMHO, a "hostile" but legitimate question over what donation funds to the site were actually used for, given that the funds go to a personal rather than site account. Someone else interpreted that as an accusation. Maybe Eric's absentee status necessitated it being a personal account. Maybe the money paid for software, or maybe it paid for A/V equipment used to make site content. There certainly can be legitimate responses. There has been no response of substance, however, only a statement of the obvious (Lisa A., and everybody else, apparently, doesn't have all the facts).

There was also the vague accusation that Dan had accepted bribes (pens ? advertising ?) for preferential reviews on the old takedown front page. There wasn't a signature to that, although we can guess it was Eric.

I'm not a fan of the way Eric and the Andersons (was that a film ?!) have gone about this.

TSherbs
March 11th, 2015, 07:29 AM
Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Um, with all respect, no one else wants him to "do it elsewhere." We very much like having him among us. Have -you-contributed to the community in any way except to encourage divisiveness? Your behavior fits the definition of a troll, but I can't figure if it's intentional or not. To give you the benefit of the doubt, here's a start: what's your favorite fountain pen? What do you think of flexy gold nibs? Do you like orange inks?

I agree with Special K. And I have made the same request that speculation and rumor be moved to private conversations out of courtesy and respect for the parties directly involved. Obviously, this is a forum that permits obscenity. But not everyone has to like it or be called a "troll." Unless, by definition, dissenters are deemed trolls. And for this site, such a definition would indeed be a "hypocrisy," the title of this thread.

my favorite fountain pen currently is my Lamy 2000 Makralon. I have never used a flexy gold nib, so I can't really give an opinion on that. But generally speaking, since my cursive is rough and labored, I don't use flex nibs of any kind. I own a few Noodler's flex nibs, but they have all been replaced at this point.

You?

ethernautrix
March 11th, 2015, 07:35 AM
Unless you are claiming you haven't seen the Facebook post, or the copy of it here, where Lisa A. pretty much accused Dan of embezzlement, including the use of some figures that - if factual - could only have been supplied by Eric, well...

BTW, my reaction to that post on FB was a little different in nature. While some censured Lisa A. for suggesting "embezzlement", I felt that was an overreaction. I interpreted it from a human perspective rather than a legal one. Emotions were running high. To me it was "a slip", something she knew about Eric's more candid, unfiltered concerns that he didn't want to talk to us about (which to me seems wise on his part).

Seems I was the only one who called her on that - and my purpose was 1) to seek clarification of what she was saying and 2) to point out her careless and biased language. But she didn't engage further, so... I dropped it, too.

She edited out of her comment that she wished someone would host hers and Brian's website for free. I imagined she received some information that caused her to rethink that comment. Anyway, if I were the Lisa attempting to shed some light on the situation, I would have been much more careful about how I worded it.

For the record, Lisa said that more than $1500 was made in donations and that Eric saw none of it. Fact: None of us knows the agreement between Eric and Dan. So, aside from making it clear that Lisa's comment suggested embezzlement -- or misuse of funds or misappropriation (really, they all mean the same thing: stealing) -- we really don't know if a simple misunderstanding occurred (which I'm more likely to believe, e.g., "I thought we agreed that I could do such-and-such") rather than other conclusions easily jumped to that besmirch Dan's character. From dealing with Dan and being familiar with his behavior as the admin, I considered him a man with integrity--and, until or unless contradicting information emerges, I will continue to consider him thus.

As for Eric, I'm less familiar with him, and I'm more likely to believe that shutting down the website and the forum was an emotional reaction to a situation he didn't expect or like or want, with shutting down the forum more of a mistake or an action not well thought-through in the heat of the moment. Certainly understandable, especially since he brought the forum back quickly.

Lisa pointed out that Eric pays for the website and all expenses related to hosting it (which Eric confirmed). I wondered (in the fb thread) if Dan were paid for his time and work on fpgeeks -- perhaps hosting Dan's personal website was payment in trade. (Which is not getting a website hosted for free, which is maybe why Lisa edited out that comment.) I did note that, according to Lisa, Eric didn't bring down Dan's website (which I have never seen--sorry, Dan), and I don't perceive Eric's actions as retaliatory at all.

I do share some of Jon's curiosity (albeit sans his zeal) about why did it take Eric so long to notice the donation button had been added. I made a donation in July 2013, and the button had already been up for some time. (For the record, my donation was actually in lieu of payment to Dan for doing an excellent job re-grinding a Nakaya nib, per his suggestion. Completely up to me, though. Dan did the work gratis and did a great review of the pen.) I understand that I may never know what sparked this brouhaha, and, frankly, I won't lose sleep over it. I do hope, though, that Dan and Eric will be able to work out their problem and repair their friendship.

It's unfortunate that Eric apparently felt that his only course of action was to put FPG in suspended animation, especially without warning. Unless he wanted FPG to garner all of this attention -- in which case, well played, Eric! (Jokey tone.)

I do appreciate having this little space in the virtual prairie to convene with other pen nerds, so I'm sitting back, crossing my fingers for the best.



Mhosea -- I should have read your comment more closely. Yes. I agree. None of us knows the facts. Even the Andersons know, presumably, only Eric's side, and it's human nature to want to defend one's friends.

And we should keep in mind: We don't know what is what. And maybe we'll never know. I guess we'll have to deal with it in our own ways. Me, I'll keep coming to this forum until it changes in a way I don't like or I lose interest. I don't have enough information to know right now if the forum has changed in a way I don't like.

SO... my favorite fountain pen is a Nakaya Piccolo (I have five, and they are all my favorite, especially the unpolished shu, but it's my favorite favorite only in unimaginable circumstances in which I would have to choose only one).

I like flexy gold nibs and flexy steel nibs (vintage German, people!), but for most of my writing, I prefer a rigidity-rigid nail.

I like some oranges, but a little goes a long way.

checkrail
March 11th, 2015, 07:50 AM
In the interests of Dan, Eric and anyone one else who may be more closely involved, more self-restraint from public speculation about people's possible moral responsilities would be both just and helpful. Such speculation cannot assist them to reach what is best for everyone, a quiet resolution with as little injury as possible.
Kind regards
Timothy

Crazyorange
March 11th, 2015, 07:51 AM
I have two websites and it requires a lot of work and paying someone to maintain it. The expenses related to hosting is cheap. It's the hours of work to keep content fresh and interesting that is expensive. My knowledge on maintaining a site is zero, so I pay for someone to do it. That's expensive - way more than $1500. I realize Dan was doing the work but there's a lot of hidden expenses and HOURS of work. I'm sure that money went towards that.

I don't need the drama of the story but would like some resolution around it.

mhosea
March 11th, 2015, 07:57 AM
Mhosea -- I should have read your comment more closely.

Actually, if you read my posts closely enough, you may realize that I rarely say anything at all. ;)

Neo
March 11th, 2015, 08:07 AM
I too have donated and have no issues with that. I learned about this forum after an unfortunate purchase of a Parker Vacumatic (first vintage pen) that did not fill from a seller that was insulting and unhelpful. From his various videos, I knew of Dan and asked him for help. He fixed the pen (no seal installed) and refused any offers of payment. When I had further question on a nib retip (second vintage pen ever-same seller) due to another problematic purchase, he directed me to this forum. In the short time I've been a member, I've made the acquaintance of many great people and hope this continues. Dan is a great member of the fountain pen community as a whole and I just want to add my two cents that one should not judge based on incomplete information. In this day of lightening fast communication, there is a tendency to make decisions at the same pace. That is folly. Just as many of us find we write better letters with a pen instead of a keyboard because the pace allows deeper thought, perhaps the same can be said of decisions made in haste or after adequate thought and information.

sorry to be so long winded.

pengeezer
March 11th, 2015, 10:06 AM
Personally, if I owned a website, even if I were not very involved with it anymore, I would be really freaked out by it suddenly becoming a commercial venture. A commercial venture that I suddenly, basically, owned without knowledge or consent. What are the financial repercussions, for example? Would I have to suddenly file self-employment taxes? Claim profits as income? It would be a lot of stuff that I would not want to deal with or worry about, if all I had ever envisioned was an informative website.

A. It wasn't sudden.
B. If it is yours, you need to pay attention to it, not sit around for a long time and then freak out.
C. You haven't said what kind of directives you gave to those running the website you owned.

... and a lot of other stuff. The primary cause of so many of our questions is the complete lack of transparency as to what actually occurred. It's all pretty much a mystery. Not good.




Agreed.



John

elaineb
March 11th, 2015, 11:00 AM
I'm never sure what my favorite pen is, but it's usually a toss-up between whatever conical Triumph-nib Sheaffer I have inked up, a fine-nibbed Pilot, a Swan self-filler, or my Moore safety pen with a perfect, ultra-flex nib. For general writing purposes I prefer fine-nibbed rigid "nails", but I love messing around with flex nibs. They're also great for drawing, which I do a lot as well.

I'm undecided about orange inks. I keep trying them, and keep deciding they're too noisy for me. (I end up paying more attention to the ink than to the words I've written with it.) But I love golden orange yellow spicy pumpkin gold colors in general, so I keep trying inks in these tones, hoping something will work.

Anyone else?

Sailor Kenshin
March 11th, 2015, 11:18 AM
I love orange inks! They're like a Creamsicle for your pen. I just have to put up with some nib gunk is all.

mhosea
March 11th, 2015, 12:23 PM
I love orange inks! They're like a Creamsicle for your pen. I just have to put up with some nib gunk is all.

I have trouble finding ones that I really like, though. Pilot Iroshizuku Yu Yake is the favorite for now. Most others have tended to seem too dry, too weak, or both. I guess my bottle of Pelikan Edelstein Mandarin will have to be limited to my wettest pens because, while vibrant, it otherwise feels "thin". I wish I had developed an interest in orange before they discontinued Sailor Jentle Apricot. It was only recently that I realized I had a pretty good coverage of usable colors except for a gaping hole in the orange area. I have also been contemplating an amber ink as a usable color that is close to yellow. The trouble with these colors, though, is that I think Lisa is very right to say "but a little goes a long way."

HughC
March 11th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Don't ask me for any more comments. If you want to continue being vulgar, do it elsewhere

Um, with all respect, no one else wants him to "do it elsewhere." We very much like having him among us. Have -you-contributed to the community in any way except to encourage divisiveness? Your behavior fits the definition of a troll, but I can't figure if it's intentional or not. To give you the benefit of the doubt, here's a start: what's your favorite fountain pen? What do you think of flexy gold nibs? Do you like orange inks?

I agree with Special K. And I have made the same request that speculation and rumor be moved to private conversations out of courtesy and respect for the parties directly involved. Obviously, this is a forum that permits obscenity. But not everyone has to like it or be called a "troll." Unless, by definition, dissenters are deemed trolls. And for this site, such a definition would indeed be a "hypocrisy," the title of this thread.

my favorite fountain pen currently is my Lamy 2000 Makralon. I have never used a flexy gold nib, so I can't really give an opinion on that. But generally speaking, since my cursive is rough and labored, I don't use flex nibs of any kind. I own a few Noodler's flex nibs, but they have all been replaced at this point.

You?

I agree, at this point speculation is a bit pointless. Really few people are offended these days with obscenities, it's fairly tame here anyway, and they're easily ignored if it offends. That this forum allows it is more a reflection on the openness rather than a detractor imo. Personally though I prefer to not use obscenities because the open nature of a forum ( age etc.) nor do I use "slang" as the meaning can vary from country to country. On another forum I used a slang term that in Australia had a very different slant to the US take , I can't remember the exact words but was informed in the US the interpretation involved a mouth and a body part....an embarrassing red face moment ....and a quick learning curve !!

Gold flex nibs are good, a big variation of course but best not to overflex them. They (fountain pen nibs) where never really designed for the extreme flex you see some people use, more for a very light handed person. If your after extreme flex the old steel dip pens are the way to go.

Regards
Hugh

Xina
March 12th, 2015, 12:31 AM
The blog Pen-Ink-cillin just reviewed Diamine Pumpkin, and shows a couple other orange inks. I think Diamine has 6 or 7 orange-y ones. And I like their inks. Pumpkin looks like my next buy.

Review here:
http://peninkcillin.blogspot.com/2015/03/diamine-pumpkin-ink-review.html

Diamine colors are here:
http://www.diamineinks.co.uk/listings.aspx?catid=14