Are expensive fountain pens better (performance, functionality)?

[spoon]

Hi!

I'm a complete newbie in this forum and to fountain pens, so if I'm breaking any rules or making any social faux-pas, sorry about that in advance.

I've bought and used several cheaper fountain pens (about $15), and wasn't really impressed about the performance (uneven ink and other technical issues). But then I've tried my dads old Montblanc 262, which I really liked. The thing is, I don't want to use it for work, because I'm afraid of losing it or breaking it (I don't know if it's worth a lot, but it has tremendous sentimental value). I wanted to buy a similar one, but found out they are really expensive (about $100?). And losing a $100+ pen now and then at work and replacing, isn't within my budget. So my questions are:

1) Is there a noticeable difference in performance between my cheap fountain pens and a Lamy safari or other pens, below $50.
2) If you are only looking for functionality is there any value buying a $100 fountain pen, except for "feel" and design.


EDIT:
Thanks for all your fast and insightful replies. I always find it fascinating when people share their personal experiences and perspectives.

I think I have to clarify some points. I want to use a fountain pen because:
* I like the "feel" when I write with it, everything from the scratching sound on the paper, the smell of the ink, how the ink soaks up into the paper etc.
* I like how fountain pen writing looks, I find that kind of text more expressive and interesting to look at.
So it's not a pure issue of "putting ink to paper", then a ballpoint or gel pen is perhaps a more obvious choice.

I should perhaps also mention I'm interested in calligraphy, but I'm going to get other pens for that, so that's another issue. What I'm looking for with this this thread is a "workhorse", where I still can enjoy the feel of the fountain pen, without to much hassle and not not to go overboard with the pricing of the pen. (I'm a teacher, pens have a way of disappearing around colleagues and students.)

[dneal]

1 - Sometimes
2 - Truthfully? Not really.

At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. A $2 Pilot Varsity satisfies that function very well. I've never found a bad one.

They're pretty boring though, and not very attractive. There are some things that are related to writing that cost extra - from piston mechanisms to "feel" of the nib. Mostly though, it's aesthetics. The material the pen is made out of, the way it feels in your hand (size and whatnot), and the way it looks are the big draws for me.

[carlc]

1) I think you answered your own question when describing the issues you've had with your cheap pens. Having said that more expensive pens can have issues (just not as often).

2) what dneal said.

You'll get lots of suggestions on here if you define a budget and any preferences for nib etc. Give it a go.

[Laura N]

1. I think so.

2. I think so. But I don't look at fountain pens as just a thing to put marks on paper. I suppose I get a certain amount of enjoyment from using a nice writing instrument. People vary in that. I look at cars as mere transportation, and as a necessity rather than a pleasure, but my husband really knows cars and he really cares what he drives. Some people will happily eat any type of food, while others are gourmets. Some people drink whatever beer is on sale or is handed to them, while others enjoy making their own beer and trying interesting micro-brews. Etc. It just depends how much you care about a particular thing.

To be honest, it really doesn't sound like fountain pens are that big a deal to you. And that's smart -- you'll save a lot of money. If the primary issue is finding something reliable that you aren't going to care about losing or breaking, the Pilot Varsity suggestion is a good one. You're not going to replicate the experience of a vintage MB with a Lamy Safari anyway. I say that even though I enjoy Safaris very much. It's still apples and oranges.

[jar]

Sometimes a more expensive pen can be far more enjoyable than a less expensive one but it really depends on the individual pen and user. Also, I try to put fountain pen prices in perspective; what is more expensive, the fountain pen or your watch or phone or shoes or ...

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Try to put things in perspective, for costs, for risk, for enjoyment.

[Kaputnik]

Counting only modern pens, and leaving vintage ones as a topic for another time, my favorite pens to write with cost me in a range from about $80 to about $160. That's based on the total feel of writing with them. Because these prices were actually fairly substantial discounts, I ended up tweaking the nibs on some of them myself. Sometimes you can greatly improve the performance of a cheaper pen with some simple adjustments and cleaning as well. You don't mention which specific cheaper pens you have.

I was previously quite satisfied with a number of pens costing me between $4 and $40. If I had never tried the more expensive ones, I probably would not be any less happy for not knowing what I was missing (most of which is down to better nib quality).

I've never reached $200 for a single pen, and probably will not. If I'm missing something at the $300, $500, or $some-other level, I'm not going to worry about it.

[gbryal]

1. Between inexpensive pens that work, there isn't much difference. Most of the difference is in the percentage that will arrive at your door ready to write. Beyond that, some pens seem to dry out faster than others, but I haven't detected any dollar amount that guarantees they won't dry out.

2. You can get excellent nibs for under $100. If you pay more than $100, you are looking at feel, design, materials, and manufacturer support at least on new pens.

However, you have cheap pens that don't work well and an expensive pen that does. You don't want to use the expensive pen at work and don't want to spend too much on a pen you might lose. I would say that increasing your budget by $20-30 and buying from reputable manufacturers will increase the chance that your next pen is better than what you have experienced, but it's no guarantee. And only the Montblanc 262 will write exactly like a Montblanc 262, and it's a unique item, so if you think there is any chance that nothing else will satisfy you and will lead to a chain of inexpensive pens you think fall short, you may as well save up for a spare and simply be more careful with items you use at work (if you can, I don't know if you are construction worker or scuba diver or stuntperson or something where such a pen is in constant danger.)

You mentioned the Lamy Safari. I have had good luck with all of my Lamy pens, but you can get a bad one here and there like any other pen.

I am assuming you don't want to get into puttering around with the nibs and feeds on your unimpressive pens, but that's another way to improve the overall experience with your collection, as long as your pens only have minor issues.

[mhosea]

At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper.

I know what you are saying, but that is a reductionist view of a complex situation. If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify. I would flip it around to incorporate more of the relevant complexities in the human equation. At the beginning of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. At the end of the day it, along with the choice of ink to use, was a way of adding joy to the otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper. Which brings us back to the OP's question in a different way. Can you achieve a similar amount of joy with inexpensive fountain pens? I think yes, but it's not a question of price, rather of judicious selection, both for how well they are designed and built despite their low price and for how they "fit" the individual's preferences. Any fountain pen, at any price point, may need adjustment to reach its potential. People are often accepting of this with cheap fountain pens, annoyed by it with expensive ones.

[brunico]

If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify.

Not really. I've used them ever since I had to copy stuff off a blackboard. They could be bought for pocket-money prices and for no more than any other refillable pen. To this day, I find them as practical and convenient as anything else. Then again, your


otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper

is completely alien to me. To me, everything about writing is a wonderful thing and always a fascinating, deeply engaging activity, whether it's a sonnet or a shopping list that's going round my head. And putting ink to paper is the physical complement to that mental engagement. A good pen does indeed add to that, but a rubbish pen - for me, that would be any biro or rollerball - wouldn't actually take anything away, still less pull it into mundanity.

To the original poster, a fountain pen is a simple thing, so there's no particular reason for a pen that works well to cost a lot. Sometimes cheaper pens get slated because people think abstemious ink flow is a fault (to me, it's an asset) or because they can't hold a nib properly (particularly with stubs, italics and so on). But sometimes cheaper pens can be a bit rubbish, like anything else.

I have a pen that's twice your hundred dollars. It feels more sensuous and looks more elegant than my other pens. But I bought it because it seduced me, not because I thought it would be better between the sheets.

Then again, I would always choose my seven-dollar Pilot Plumix over any pen that didn't have an italic nib, no matter how expensive, as the Plumix would, for me, be a vastly superior pen and a greater pleasure to write with - which is exactly the point mhosea goes on to make.

[dneal]

At the end of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper.

I know what you are saying, but that is a reductionist view of a complex situation. If you just need a tool to put ink to paper, a fountain pen is hard to justify. I would flip it around to incorporate more of the relevant complexities in the human equation. At the beginning of the day, a fountain pen is a tool for putting ink to paper. At the end of the day it, along with the choice of ink to use, was a way of adding joy to the otherwise mundane task of putting ink to paper. Which brings us back to the OP's question in a different way. Can you achieve a similar amount of joy with inexpensive fountain pens? I think yes, but it's not a question of price, rather of judicious selection, both for how well they are designed and built despite their low price and for how they "fit" the individual's preferences. Any fountain pen, at any price point, may need adjustment to reach its potential. People are often accepting of this with cheap fountain pens, annoyed by it with expensive ones.

"At the end of the day", or "when all things are considered"; I'm talking about the utility of the thing. Its intrinsic purpose.

A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

[mhosea]

The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

Functionality is a non-issue, unless we need the pen to have a glassbreaker on it or something. I think the OP is probably interested in something that performs more or less like the Montblanc that he knows he likes. So you would recommend a Pilot Varsity then as something reminiscent of the Montblanc performance-wise?

[dneal]

The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

Functionality is a non-issue, unless we need the pen to have a glassbreaker on it or something. I think the OP is probably interested in something that performs more or less like the Montblanc that he knows he likes. So you would recommend a Pilot Varsity then as something reminiscent of the Montblanc performance-wise?

How can it be a non-issue if it is specifically what the OP asked? What does a glass breaker have to do with anything? The OP isn't asking about a Swiss-Army-Knife of pens.

[pengeezer]

I do have a few "expensive" pens(I find the term to be relative) and I enjoy using them. By the same reasoning,I
have some Lamy Safaris that I enjoy using when I feel like it. For me,it is the total package--I have to enjoy everything
I see and know about the pen to be willing to spend the money on it whether vintage or contemporary. With respect to
vintage,I look at it this way: Vintage pens are like vintage cars, but you can use them more often and not lose value(In
fact,they may increase in value). They are also easier to fix and easier to get parts for than (some) vintage cars.

BTW,some inexpensive pens like the Safari can increase in value over the years also.


John

[mhosea]

I'm not saying that it isn't part of the OP's clarification of his interest (or, probably more to the point, lack of interest in how pretty the pen might be), rather that it is not at issue, as in not a point of contention, since, as you note, all (reasonable) fountain pens have the same functionality. Some perform their function better than others.

There are pens with a glassbreaker, BTW, just not a fountain pen AFAIK: http://www.uzi.com/tactical-pens .

[dneal]

I have no idea what your point is, or where you're trying to go with this thread. The OP asked a simple question, and you're posting links to pens that are also glass breakers. BTW, no one said they didn't exist.

[Laura N]

A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.

[dneal]

A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.

I enjoy writing with any of my Nakayas more than with a pilot varsity. If you're going to say it "performs better", then I have to ask: how so? (specifically in terms of the OP's second question)

[jar]

A $2 Varsity is no harder to justify than a $2 Uniball. The rest is aesthetics, whether a multi-hundred $ fountain pen or rollerball; and aesthetics are about the emotional response to the appreciation of the beauty. There's nothing wrong with spending money on aesthetics, and I'm not arguing that there is. I don't try to convince myself that a $600 Nakaya fulfills its intrinsic (or functional) purpose any better than a $2 Varsity though. The OP didn't ask about aesthetics, but about performance and functionality.

I will disagree. It's not just aesthetics. I have used both, and I think a Nakaya performs better than a Varsity. It writes better. It lets me use all any ink very easily.

As always, your mileage may vary. Maybe for you the Varsity performs exactly the same, in which case you should definitely stick with that. Obviously some people would prefer the Nakaya but are happier using a Varsity and saving the $548. That's great. My wonderful husband is happier using a free ballpoint. That's great, too. People are different.

I enjoy writing with any of my Nakayas more than with a pilot varsity. If you're going to say it "performs better", then I have to ask: how so? (specifically in terms of the OP's second question)

If you read all of the OP's second question things like feel and design are recognized as part of functionality. The experience we call writing is for many of us more than just the words on the paper. When I use a pen I also consider things like how it feels in hand while I am just thinking or listening to others, how it sounds when I cap or uncap it, how it feels during capping and uncapping, how it smells as well as how it looks, how easy it is to cap and uncap, how easy it is to clip it over different fabrics and how secure it is when clipped.

There are folk that are satisfied with "just barely good enough" and that's great, but then there are also folk that set the minimum as higher than just good enough.

[mhosea]

I have no idea what your point is, or where you're trying to go with this thread. The OP asked a simple question, and you're posting links to pens that are also glass breakers. BTW, no one said they didn't exist.

The glassbreaker thing was an off-the-wall example of functionality a pen might have to make the point that functionality was not a contested matter to begin with in this thread. Perhaps my definition of "performance" is just broader than yours, as I was not referring to what I would call "aesthetic matters" in my original post. I provided the link about the glass breaker pens in the subsequent post as an attempt to lighten the mood a little (apparently a failure).

I take the point that for some applications fountain pens are easy to "justify", but liquid ink, gel ink, and ballpoint ink each have different strengths. It seems to me that the mass movement away from fountain pens in the 1960's and onwards was a purely utilitarian thing. Nowadays fountain pens are making a comeback of sorts, but as an FP user, I don't go very long between instances that remind me that a free-flowing liquid ink isn't better than a good gel ink for most purposes I have at work, so I'd better be getting something else out of it. I'm sure as hell not saving any money. My original point, which is nothing more or less than my personal opinion, is that modern fountain pen usage is not usually going to be a purely utilitarian matter of how to put ink on the page. Even in cases where it is, there may be a special interest in ink selection, instead. Yes, there are folks who just have to write and write, who don't care much about ink selection, don't care about fountain pens except as tools. A fountain pen is well-suited to continuous writing, less so to the occasional "jotting" that probably most people need in a computerized world. I'm a mathematician, and I use fountain pens despite that they are not optimal for my application of them. This may bias my view a bit. The OP might be a member of the long-term continuous-writing, purely utilitarian group. But something about the way they talked about the Montblanc and their less-than-happy experiences with cheaper pens threw me off that trail.

[ChrisC]

I would say that C/C pens are the most durable. So a Lamy Safari or any Edison production line pen is way more durable than say, a Montblanc 146, Pelikan M800, or any of Visconti's myriad filling systems. The less moving parts and the less complex the construction, the more durable a pen tends to be, assuming quality materials in construction.

[inklord]

A lot depends on what you expect from your pen (as others have already pointed out).
by example: I enjoy smooth writers with consistent performance, pens that are of high durability and I prefer a minimalist design. Some examples that fulfill these criteria 100% for me are a Lamy 2000M ($300), a Pilot Metropolitan in plain black or silver ($15), a Lamy CP1 in black ($55) and a Franklin-Christoph pocket 66 with 18k Masuyama medium stub nib ($250). Did any of these pens ever disappoint me? No. Is the Lamy for $300 a better writer than the Metropolitan for a 20th of its cost? Well, it's different, but not really better. Am I a fool to even have anything more expensive than the Metropolitan? Rationally, yes, but emotionally there is this connection I feel with Gerd A. Mueller designed pens, and also with the creations by Franklin-Christoph, that I would not want to miss...

[inklord]

I would say that C/C pens are the most durable. So a Lamy Safari or any Edison production line pen is way more durable than say, a Montblanc 146, Pelikan M800, or any of Visconti's myriad filling systems. The less moving parts and the less complex the construction, the more durable a pen tends to be, assuming quality materials in construction.
Good points. My highest rating for 'nothing can break on this baby' goes to my eyedropper pens - no filling system whatsoever, and usually with character to boot... I guess that would include the Edisons from their production line.

[KBeezie]

It's a really big 'depends' for me. That being said, if the nib itself doesn't write well, I don't care for it, regardless if it's inexpensive versus expensive.

I'm not really a 'collector' in the sense of getting something purely for aesthetics, history or rarity. If I can't use it, I don't really want it.

The cheaper ones (ie: Moderns 50$ or below) that I own or tried tends to have a little quirk here or there that didn't quite nail it for me. Couple of examples: The Faber-Castell BASIC has a very nice smooth nib, but the balance was a bit off for me, bit too back-heavy, and ink gets trapped easily around the lip of the nib that makes bottle filling a little more annoying. The Lamy Safari has a grip that drives me nuts as I prefer a rounded grip rather than the triangular one they use, otherwise decent, but the nib isn't as nice as some of the other pen (and I've tried 3 different Lamy Safari Nibs). The Pilot Metropolitan and Petit1 was probably the best of the sub-$20 I've used, though the shape/size of either wasn't 'quite' there for me, but close enough that I could settle for them. I do like the cheaper ones with the friction fit nib/feed to make it a little easier to clean and experiment with some of the more saturated inks. Generally the cheaper ones are C/C (of which I prefer Pilot's to standard international).

Generally speaking the cheaper ones tend to bring up the thoughts of "if I lose it...", "if it gets stolen...", "if I drop/damage it...", and not as much about just utilizing it as the tool it was meant to be, fitted to your personal preference. The cheaper ones were of course a great way to discover the direction I wanted to go such as how the nib feels/responds, how I like the weight, where does the balance fit best for me, and other factors I tweaked over the last year.

The more expensive ones moved beyond the just the nib or 'it works' aspect of it, and more narrowing down to specific tools that have more specific features or characteristics that I like that I couldn't find in some of the cheaper ones. ... that and it's become kind of an obsession of discovery and snapping pictures of them.

Currently one of my favorites that's about the same price as most of the above '100' pens I have is a vintage Pelikan 400NN from 1956 with a 14K Semi-Flex EF nib. At about 160 restored, it's the same price as the Pilot Metal Falcon with a SEF I have, and a little more than the Lamy 2000 I also have with an EF, but cheaper than a brand new modern Pelikan M400 with a 14K Nib (which are much firmer by comparison). I've been gradually leaning towards lighter pens and using a lighter hand, and the 400NN is a rather light pen, but posts very well with a good balance with a comfortable grip and the way the nib feels is just different than any of the other pens I have in the same price range. Holds a bit more ink too, also because of not only the gold nib, but the hard rubber collar on the nib unit (as opposed to steel) I can use inks like R&K Salix (iron gall) without much concern.

I noticed there was also some mentions of 'durability', but it seems like some people have the notion that if it's heavy or easily disassembled then it must be more durable, that's not always the case. In fact I feel like some of the pens that are easily user serviceable are prone to more stress from the users micro-managing their cleanliness or taking them apart more than they should. Also consider that some of the more expensive restored pens have survived for 50 to 70 plus years before needing to be maintained, and most of the piston fillers I've come across at most tend to need just a little greasing and it's good to go. Anything beyond that would have been problems that would happen all the same with even C/C or cheaper pens such as nib alignment, or flow issues (which other than the M250 I have, hasn't been an issue). Only other ones that I've had that comes close to such 'comfort' and personal preference but on a more affordable price range were the Eversharp Skylines (1940s models), but most of the ones I've had, were self-restored, otherwise you're looking at around $80-100+ for a restored one from a well known restoration expert.

The 100 to 200 price range seems to be my 'comfortable' range, not ridiculous on the price (subjective), and there's a few that I actually enjoy, though mostly on the vintage side. I've only ever spent more for my Pelikan M640 Special Edition (Mount Everest), and the Visconti Divina Limited Edition (Desert Springs), but that was mostly embellishment and more for the overall materials and feel, they're more keepsakes, but like I said earlier, if I couldn't use them, or they didn't work well, I wouldn't keep them.



Good points. My highest rating for 'nothing can break on this baby' goes to my eyedropper pens - no filling system whatsoever, and usually with character to boot... I guess that would include the Edisons from their production line.

:P I did like the really old black chased hard rubber eye dropper pen I had, but couldn't really get used to the burping and creeping behavior of the eye dropper with my choice of ink and my enviroment. But you're right, absolutely no fuss, in terms of durability, you just have a reservoir, and the nib/feed. No moving mechanism what-so-ever and capacity to boot.

[spoon]

if you can, I don't know if you are construction worker or scuba diver or stuntperson or something where such a pen is in constant danger.

I'm a teacher, pens have a way of disappearing around colleagues and students (teenagers). Pens are also constantly used for other things than writing (I teach physics).


I am assuming you don't want to get into puttering around with the nibs and feeds on your unimpressive pens, but that's another way to improve the overall experience with your collection, as long as your pens only have minor issues.

Actually, I've been thinking about that. Trying out different inks and nibs is perhaps the best way to go.

[spoon]

To me, everything about writing is a wonderful thing and always a fascinating, deeply engaging activity, whether it's a sonnet or a shopping list that's going round my head.

I completely agree with this. I discovered the sensuous joy of writing with fountain pens when I had to take boring lecture notes at university.

[spoon]

I would say that C/C pens are the most durable. So a Lamy Safari or any Edison production line pen is way more durable than say, a Montblanc 146, Pelikan M800, or any of Visconti's myriad filling systems. The less moving parts and the less complex the construction, the more durable a pen tends to be, assuming quality materials in construction.

A newbie question what's a "C/C pen"? I tried to google it but couldn't find a good answer.

[jar]

A newbie question what's a "C/C pen"? I tried to google it but couldn't find a good answer.

Cartridge/converter.

[spoon]

The Lamy Safari has a grip that drives me nuts as I prefer a rounded grip rather than the triangular one they use, otherwise decent, but the nib isn't as nice as some of the other pen (and I've tried 3 different Lamy Safari Nibs). The Pilot Metropolitan and Petit1 was probably the best of the sub-$20 I've used, though the shape/size of either wasn't 'quite' there for me, but close enough that I could settle for them. I do like the cheaper ones with the friction fit nib/feed to make it a little easier to clean and experiment with some of the more saturated inks.

Yeah, the triangular shape makes me hesitate, but I heard it had more nibs. Anyway I just have try out and see what feels right.

[mhosea]

To me, everything about writing is a wonderful thing and always a fascinating, deeply engaging activity, whether it's a sonnet or a shopping list that's going round my head.

I completely agree with this. I discovered the sensuous joy of writing with fountain pens when I had to take boring lecture notes at university.

Just for the record, though, that quote belongs to brunico rather than mhosea, i.e. [QUOTE=brunico;129570] rather than [QUOTE=mhosea;129564].

I regard most of my thoughts as thoroughly "mundane", unfortunately, so I can't personally relate to the quoted view. However, your reply here makes perfect sense to me.

[spoon]

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing.

[spoon]

Just for the record, though, that quote belongs to brunico rather than mhosea

Thanks, Sorry about that I'm new to this system.
I think I have corrected it now.

[spoon]

A newbie question what's a "C/C pen"? I tried to google it but couldn't find a good answer.

Cartridge/converter.

Thanks!

[jar]

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing.

I have to pity teachers today who work in third world education systems like much of the US where there is even a possibility of a pen getting stolen or considered currency.

[tiffanyhenschel]

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing.

I have to pity teachers today who work in third world education systems like much of the US where there is even a possibility of a pen getting stolen or considered currency.
In four years of using fountain pens at school, I have never had any stolen or damaged. Of course I have security protocols that I developed. I never have more than one pen out of my bag when students are in the room. That one pen is always in my hand, my pocket, or desk drawer. I don't leave it lying around on my desk or anywhere else that I wouldn't leave my phone or wallet.

These are precautions I would follow in any job, though, not just as a teacher.

I think students and colleagues inherently respect a nice pen. (I teach 11th grade English.) Ballpoints seem to be community property, but no one has ever borrowed my fountain pen without asking.

The precautions may not be worth it for some. In that case, use a Varsity or Preppy, something you can not worry about. There's nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if you want to use nice pens at school, it is doable.

[Cookies]

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing.

I have to pity teachers today who work in third world education systems like much of the US where there is even a possibility of a pen getting stolen or considered currency.


I've never had a student (or adult) steal from me on purpose. You lend it to someone for a quick jot and they absentmindedly stick it in their pocket or walk away with it. And I'm sure I can't be the only one who used to use their Bic Crystal as an improvised drumstick or hair pin... Most people are not nearly as concerned with writing instruments as those of us who frequent this forum are.

And while I can't speak for spoon, they're definitely a type of currency in an education environment simply because they're in constant use. People forget theirs on a table, they fall out of pockets, they run out of lead etc. and find themselves in need of a loan. Overall I found your comment quite unnecessarily disparaging on more than one level.

[Cookies]

In four years of using fountain pens at school, I have never had any stolen or damaged. Of course I have security protocols that I developed. I never have more than one pen out of my bag when students are in the room. That one pen is always in my hand, my pocket, or desk drawer. I don't leave it lying around on my desk or anywhere else that I wouldn't leave my phone or wallet.

These are precautions I would follow in any job, though, not just as a teacher.

I think students and colleagues inherently respect a nice pen. (I teach 11th grade English.) Ballpoints seem to be community property, but no one has ever borrowed my fountain pen without asking.

The precautions may not be worth it for some. In that case, use a Varsity or Preppy, something you can not worry about. There's nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if you want to use nice pens at school, it is doable.

I've had the same experience. Most students won't even try my fountain pens without a bit of goading. They tend to be nervous about breaking them. When I do bring some in for the class to try everyone is always quite respectful.

Like you I make sure my nice pens don't leave my sight, but I did that throughout my schooling and when I worked in an office building as well.

[jar]

I hear about people that lose their keys or their phone but never quite understood how that could happen so ask yourself if you do lose phones or keys or wallet or watch.

Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing.

I have to pity teachers today who work in third world education systems like much of the US where there is even a possibility of a pen getting stolen or considered currency.


I've never had a student (or adult) steal from me on purpose. You lend it to someone for a quick jot and they absentmindedly stick it in their pocket or walk away with it. And I'm sure I can't be the only one who used to use their Bic Crystal as an improvised drumstick or hair pin... Most people are not nearly as concerned with writing instruments as those of us who frequent this forum are.

And while I can't speak for spoon, they're definitely a type of currency in an education environment simply because they're in constant use. People forget theirs on a table, they fall out of pockets, they run out of lead etc. and find themselves in need of a loan. Overall I found your comment quite unnecessarily disparaging on more than one level.

I was not the person who said "Well, I'm a teacher constantly surrounded by other teachers and teenagers, so pens are more less hard currency. :-)
Students also use pens for other things than writing."

[dneal]

I think I have to clarify some points. I want to use a fountain pen because:
* I like the "feel" when I write with it, everything from the scratching sound on the paper, the smell of the ink, how the ink soaks up into the paper etc.
* I like how fountain pen writing looks, I find that kind of text more expressive and interesting to look at.
So it's not a pure issue of "putting ink to paper", then a ballpoint or gel pen is perhaps a more obvious choice.


This is the other side of the coin, and I would say that you can get more from a more expensive pen. It's why I use them, and why I spend money on those that are emotionally satisfying. I enjoy the acrylics of Conway Stewart, watching the tines flex on an old Pelikan 100, the way a Nakaya Naka-Ai rests in my hand, watching the 70 year old piston mechanism of an old Kaweco Sport still work, etc...

You know, if you just wanted help justifying an expensive pen, you could have just said so... ;)

[TAYLORPUPPY]

I think, up to a point, a low point, the more expensive pen is better in all aspects. Then, you're just paying for other things.

[KBeezie]

Course you could just pay for what you want and where you think the value should go. If it's all about the nib, get the pen you like and send it off to have the nib made to just the way you want (which could even be as simple as getting a cheaper pen that takes a Jowo #6, and buying the nib separately with a custom grind and tuning). Some could have gotten a pen for several hundreds that had a boring (in your opinion) rounded nib, but mainly only got it because they just had to have that body/feel, and just wanted a functional everyday nib to match.

Personal Preference.

[maverick]

That depends.

I think what you might be forgetting, and others too, is that this pen (MB 262) has sentimental value to you and that is an intangible that is very hard to put a price tag on. In fact, if you could find another 262 it wouldn't write or feel as well b/c it is not the same as the one you have. It had a different owner and was broken in differently, used differently etc.

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder...whether it is a fine writing instrument or the car you drive.

One woman's treasure is another women's trash.

Mont Blancs, Parker Duofolds do write better especially if you think they do. I've never regretted the money spent on a fine pen. I have thrown away many disposable fountain pens...cheap pens.

[Jerry000g]

If this is of any help, I have used nothing but fountain pens for over half a century and until a few years ago, when my EX relieved me of most of them, I had a four decade collection of pens that on todays market would have been worth tens of thousands of dollars. I have large hands and my all time favorite pen has always been a MB 149, but as a engineer in an industrial setting, my MBs and Parkers never leave my office. Instead, I carry in my pocket two Jinhao 159s, one with Noodlers black and the other inked with Baystate Blue. Now, understand, I have tweaked both of these pens, changed nibs and adjusted feeds for the inks and changed converters, but both are decently constructed, fit my hand like my beloved MB 149s and now write as well or better than pens in my desk drawer that cost as much as $600.00 and they cost less than $10.00 each with maybe $15 or $20 in upgrades and I will not cry if they get scratched, dented, fall a hundred feet to the ground or get misplaced.

[Jerry000g]

If this is of any help, I have used nothing but fountain pens for over half a century and until a few years ago, when my EX relieved me of most of them, I had a four decade collection of pens that on todays market would have been worth tens of thousands of dollars. I have large hands and my all time favorite pen has always been a MB 149, but as a engineer in an industrial setting, my MBs and Parkers never leave my office. Instead, I carry in my pocket two Jinhao 159s, one with Noodlers black and the other inked with Baystate Blue. Now, understand, I have tweaked both of these pens, changed nibs and adjusted feeds for the inks and changed converters, but both are decently constructed, fit my hand like my beloved MB 149s and now write as well or better than pens in my desk drawer that cost as much as $600.00 and they cost less than $10.00 each with maybe $15 or $20 in upgrades and I will not cry if they get scratched, dented, fall a hundred feet to the ground or get misplaced.

[Dronak]

1) Is there a noticeable difference in performance between my cheap fountain pens and a Lamy safari or other pens, below $50.
2) If you are only looking for functionality is there any value buying a $100 fountain pen, except for "feel" and design.


I realize this is a few weeks old, but recent replies brought it up so I thought I'd comment. IMO, there is an improvement in fountain pen performance, functionality, etc. with price, but only to a point. Beyond that, I think you're paying for things like better materials, fancier designs, name brand, and things like that. Exactly where that cross-over happens, I'm not sure. It could depend on the person and what they consider most important in a pen.

About half of the pens I have cost me less than ~$50 each. Overall, I'd say they're similar in performance. For the most part, they all work well enough without huge problems. Apart from fairly obvious differences in things like length, diameter, weight, etc., I think the nibs in the under-$50 price area tend to perform similarly well. I'm no expert, but mine seem to be fine. (One of my two Jinhao 250s is worse than the other, but these are *really* cheap pens, like $5, so I'm not that surprised quality might vary.)

Is there value in buying a pen for $100+? It depends. I think it's tough to find gold nibs for under $100, and there are some advantages to gold nibs, though that could be a YMMV situation. They might also offer options you can't find, at least not easily, on other models. For example, I've been considering getting myself a nice pen to celebrate a work anniversary, and one I'm considering is the Pilot Custom Heritage 912 which has 15 different nib options. You can't get all of those nibs on every Pilot model though. Heck, even some of the cheapest ones don't have many nib options (e.g., I just got a Plumix because it has an italic/stub nib that wasn't available on my Prera or Metropolitan). Strictly in terms of writing performance, it may be a little hard to justify a more expensive fountain pen if less expensive ones write well enough for you. I do think you can get better look, feel, design, etc. and that may be worth considering, because while writing performance is important, the pen overall is more than that. But at the particularly high prices, I don't think there's much practical value. My most expensive pen is a Cartier Diabolo, which was a PhD graduation gift from my parents. It's a very nice pen and the only one I used for years after graduating, but I think a good portion of the cost is the brand -- Cartier is a luxury jeweler. On top of that, my parents talked to a store when they bought it, and were kind of talked-down from Montblanc, which they originally considered (probably because of the name). They were told that they could get a similar quality pen for less money if they chose different brand, which is what they did.

So yes and no. :) I think more expensive fountain pens are better, but only to a point if you're talking specifically about performance. Beyond that point, which you may have to find for yourself, you're paying for things besides just quality performance. I hope this is of some help.

[KBeezie]

The solution is simple...

http://i.imgur.com/inDRRTA.jpg

[Woody]

To me, everything about writing is a wonderful thing and always a fascinating, deeply engaging activity, whether it's a sonnet or a shopping list that's going round my head.

I completely agree with this. I discovered the sensuous joy of writing with fountain pens when I had to take boring lecture notes at university.

Hi Spoon. Welcome to our world. Here's my simple formula. If I like the look of the pen I'll try to get the best nib possible.

[Chuasam]

$100+ isn't expensive for fountain pens. I guess the nicer ones you can love and keep for longer

[ac12]

I've bought and used several cheaper fountain pens (about $15), and wasn't really impressed about the performance (uneven ink and other technical issues). But then I've tried my dads old Montblanc 262, which I really liked. The thing is, I don't want to use it for work, because I'm afraid of losing it or breaking it (I don't know if it's worth a lot, but it has tremendous sentimental value). I wanted to buy a similar one, but found out they are really expensive (about $100?). And losing a $100+ pen now and then at work and replacing, isn't within my budget. So my questions are:

1) Is there a noticeable difference in performance between my cheap fountain pens and a Lamy safari or other pens, below $50.
2) If you are only looking for functionality is there any value buying a $100 fountain pen, except for "feel" and design.


EDIT:

What I'm looking for with this this thread is a "workhorse", where I still can enjoy the feel of the fountain pen, without to much hassle and not not to go overboard with the pricing of the pen. (I'm a teacher, pens have a way of disappearing around colleagues and students.)


This sound just like what I call "office pens."
For me an office pen is a relatively inexpensive pen, that if lost or stolen, will not be a significant financial impact to replace.
But because it is a work pen, it also has to WRITE WELL.

#1) I don't know what cheap pen(s) you got, but there are many inexpensive pens that write as well as or better than a Lamy Safari. Specific example, the Pilot Metropolitan. That pen writes so smoothly that I still have trouble believing it only cost me $18. And there are other pens that write well. So just because the pen cost less than $30, does not mean it is "junk."

#2) IMHO, NO. I can get essentially the same functionality in a good writing pen for less than $40, or even less. In my current pool of "office pens," none cost more than $25, some less than $5. So you can find good writing pens for relatively inexpensive or down right cheap prices.

My current pool of "office pens."
- Baoer 388 with M nib (F and M nibs only, these are narrower nibs than Lamy. 4 of 5 pens needed to have the nib adjusted to increase the ink flow)
- Baoer 801 with M nib (F and M nibs only, these are narrower nibs than Lamy)
- Parker IM with F nib (standard with M nib only, have to send back to Parker if you want a different size nib)
- Pilot Metropolitan with M nib (F and M nib only)
- Pilot 78G with M nib
- Reform 1745 (F nib only)
- Rosetta Explorer (M nib only)

Tip. My uncle told me about "the crow principle." Crows are attracted to and take shiny objects. So in this case, a dull ugly pen would be less of a theft target than a shiny nice looking pen. The irony about this is that I have a couple Chinese pens that cost less than $4, but they look like a $100 Parker. So what would be a dull/ugly pen? Pilot Metropolitan matt black, Kaweco Al Sport Stonewashed (the finish looks worn down). Or wrap a layer of masking tape over the barrel.

[Scrawler]

No. My daughters $600 MB is a better all round pen than my $900 Delta. Even if the Delta is much prettier.

[Lt. Tom]

I'm reasonably new at this, but here's my 2 cents; yes and no. For instance, I have a couple of Kaweco Sports. Around $25 each. They write really well for that price. I also have a Kaweco Student. Around $50. It's full sized, is beautiful, it's heavier. It feels nicer, but it's the same nib as the Sport, so it doesn't really write better. An aluminum Sport is $75-still the same nib. An "Allrounder" is an aluminum Student, it's $100, and again, heavier and nicer, but it's still the same nib. Eventually, you get to a price point where you have a choice between a really nice pen with the same nib, or a much simpler pen with a gold nib. When you get the gold nib, that's where your actually getting a better writing pen.
That being said, I'm plenty happy with stuff in the "up to $100" range. For me that seems to be the sweet spot where I'm getting nice pens, that write well enough to make me happy, that I'm not afraid to take out of the house.