Frugal Challenge: Gold Nibs

[Armstrong]

Here is a head scratch-er for you. What is the most frugal way to get into gold nibs? I mean gold nibs, not gold plated stainless steel. The suggestion could be a straight pen purchase. It could be the combination of one pen with the purchase of a nib from somewhere else. It is up to you. +

[rpsyed]

I think vintage is probably your best bet. Skylines, Parker 45's, and lesser recognized brands with warranted 14k nibs are often available at low prices. For modern pens, a Platinum 3776 or the thin Platinum with gold nib (the name is escaping me at the moment) are going to be the best priced, I think.

[mhosea]

Many gold nibs are as stiff as steel nibs, so it matters which ones you choose if you're looking for a new experience.

For new pens, I quite like the Pilot Celemo, which can be imported from Japan via eBay sellers. It's a very lightweight pen, but the 14K nib has a soft feel to it. It's not what we call a "flexible" nib, but it's very far from writing "like a nail".

[Armstrong]

Many gold nibs are as stiff as steel nibs {Mike} You made a good point that I had not thought of when I dashed off the post. I had in mind nibs that flex.


I think vintage is probably your best bet.{rpsyed} Do you have source or website suggestions for such?



I was also playing with the idea of getting an ebonite pen from FP Revolution and purchasing a separate nib. A medium to large body cigar shape with a herringbone pattern appeals. Any good sources / websites for flexible gold nibs?

I'll certainly look into those suggestions. Being fairly new in fountain pens I am looking for sources for components. Pens are fairly easy to find. Haven't had much luck with separate nibs except for sites that do customization. I value your experience.

[dr.grace]

The Pilot Custom 74 is a favorite of mine and a very good deal if you buy from Japanese sellers (e.g. j-subculture). But it's not a flex nib. You'd have to go vintage for real flex. Are you so sure that you want that?

[Armstrong]

You'd have to go vintage for real flex. Are you so sure that you want that? {dr.grace}

That's the problem when trying to quantify something that is inherently subjective like the writing experience. I am not after the wet noodle type of flex, at least not here. I would eventually like to experiment with it, but my hands are not that steady so I couldn't do that type of nib justice on the written page. On the other hand, I can see no justification for spending the money necessary for a gold nib so stiff it behaves the same as a stainless steel nib. What's the point? From the comments so far though, I think their may be a happy medium. A nib, maybe like Mike's Pilot Celemo, that has some flex to it enough to soften the feel when writing. Personally, I like to see at least some line variation.



BTW Mike, I like the look of the Pilot Celemo. I am partial to longer grip sections and like light pens for longer writing sessions. I think I will check that out.

[dr.grace]

In my experience, the Pilot gold nibs aren't like nails. They definitely have a nicer feel than steel nibs. Also, certain Pilot models can come with a "soft" nib, which would have more give to it.

[mhosea]

A nib, maybe like Mike's Pilot Celemo, that has some flex to it enough to soften the feel when writing. Personally, I like to see at least some line variation.


Well, the Celemo has the former, not so much the latter. Same for a Targa, which can sometimes be snagged used for a good price.

20736
20737

Note that this is Medium line width. The Celemos are available in Medium and Fine. Both of mine are mediums, so I don't know what the fine looks like.

A Pilot "soft" nib on a Custom 74, such as Dr. Grace mentions, would have a little more and so might be worth it to you. As for vintage flex on a budget, maybe contact Rick Krantz. He usually posts a sale on Saturdays, and sometimes he has a flexy thing or two. Everybody's at the DC pen show right now, including Rick (I would hope), so maybe not this weekend.

[Armstrong]

LOL thanks Mike! I tend to like medium nibs as I like a broader line and smoother writing than a fine usually gives. Love those colors. Lately I am tending toward 1.1mm stub nibs because of the variation. The 1.1mm (Pilot, TWSBI) stub seems easier to write with than the 1.5mm which I tried on a Lamy.

Actually, Dr. Grace, a Pilot Custom 92 is on my some day list. I am partial to piston fill pens like the TWSBI's. But, the Pilot would definitely be a high end for me, maybe for Christmas. Now, if I could get a gold nib to fit a TWSBI Eco...

I think talking with Rick Krantz is something I would like to do. I assume he is a forum member? The Scheaffer Targa Classic is a beautiful pen. Wouldn't mind picking one of those up. Those are both good suggestions Mike. I like the look of both of those pens. A good place to begin experimenting. Primarily, I am curious about the feel difference between a gold and SS nib.


I intend to play with modifying some SS nibs for a softer feel and some flex in the future. Right now I have a bunch of house work, painting, moving furniture going on. Probably for another month or two, so that is a back burner issue. From some of the mod's I have seen, I don't understand why we don't see some of these nibs manufactured. A simple modification to the stamping die would achieve some configurations I see on a lot of the modified nibs.

[mhosea]

I think talking with Rick Krantz is something I would like to do. I assume he is a forum member?

Here's a link to last week's sale (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/12893-SATURDAY-SALE-BUNCH-OF-SHEAFFER-A-WATERMAN-AND-A-CHILTON?p=141061&viewfull=1#post141061). There's an email address on it. No affordable flexy pens last week, IIRC, but I've seen some show up on his ads from time to time.

[ChrisC]

You'd have to go vintage for real flex. Are you so sure that you want that? {dr.grace}
On the other hand, I can see no justification for spending the money necessary for a gold nib so stiff it behaves the same as a stainless steel nib. What's the point?



I think a lot of the stiff gold nib business has to do with back in the day when steel nibs weren't quite as good at standing up to the more corrosive inks of the day. Nowadays, stainless steel nibs, plated or not, have no problem dealing with almost all inks sold today.

[Cob]

I bought a perfectly decent Swan 3240 the other day for £17:50; the nib is in good order and semi-flexible; the pen even has a new sac fitted!

Cob

[KBeezie]

Vintage pens is going to be the easiest bet, especially under the price point of $20 or $30. Especially considering all those Sheaffer Craftsmans and various other pens (a lot of no names) with warranted 14K Nibs and so forth.

Some may be poor, some may be great, but they'll be Gold.

Otherwise, modern wise, something like a Platinum PTL-5000 would get you into a brand new gold nibbed pen for around $50.

But under $100 for a gold nib, I go vintage when I can. They just seem overall better made.

[Cob]

It's also worth remembering that in the 1920s/30s/40s carbon paper was used everywhere; a stiff nib is essential for this application, hence Mabie Todd Eternals, Sheaffer Lifetimes etc.

Cob

[migo984]

You could also consider "semi-vintage" e.g. 1960 - 70s era.
I recently bought a lovely Pelikan M20 Silvexa, with a really gorgeous EF 14k nib & a Pelikan P12 with a juicy BB 18k nib (now stubbed). Good ones of both are available for around $50 (or less). As has already been mentioned, there's also the wonderful Parker 45. I've bought a few of those with gold nibs for around $30.

[Armstrong]

Excellent points all - had not considered how corrosive inks were or the carbon paper angle. What a useful discussion! I think your right, looks like vintage or near vintage are the way to go. Or as Mike and others suggested some direct from Japan purchases. I'll have to look at the Parker 45 as I don't know anything about it in particular. I did get a Parker Frontier recently, steel nib, from iPens I think. It is an excellent writer and not bad looking either.

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/armstr0ng/Pens/ParkerFrontier1997_zpsbxbit3fk.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/armstr0ng/media/Pens/ParkerFrontier1997_zpsbxbit3fk.jpg.html)

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/armstr0ng/Pens/ParkerFrontier1997-flash1tape_zpsyzj9gmpl.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/armstr0ng/media/Pens/ParkerFrontier1997-flash1tape_zpsyzj9gmpl.jpg.html)

A Pelikan would be nice also, I have had my eye on them for some time. Comes down to I have a lot to learn, but on a budget. So if I could experiment with some $20-30 buys to see what I like then I could move forward later with a more substantial purchase. With your help I have been able to define what I am after which would be a semi-flexible gold nib. Also I have received some great pen suggestions. Since the point is to experiment with such nibs, the fill function is really immaterial. Still, if I could come up with a working piston fill that would be ideal. But, that is asking a lot, too much really, for the experimental stage price point. So it may be better to reserve a piston fill for later.

What places have you been successful sourcing such pens. Mike gave me some good info and someone to contact. If you know of places to get such vintage or near vintage pens it would be a great help. By places I really mean websites. Also pens you know of that may have semi-flexible gold nibs available.

[rpsyed]

Do you have source or website suggestions for such?

Peytonstreetpens.com is good, if you're looking for restored vintage pens. Rick Krantz's sales, as have been mentioned have great prices. If you can do the restoration yourself, you can look through eBay listing and find a pen for cheap, I bet. Just make sure there's good pictures of the nib, and that the nib is in good condition, along with there being no major structural damage to the lever, cap, and pen. If your not picky about faded ebonite and scratched pens, you should be able to get a nice deal.

[Armstrong]

I wanted to ask you about the Eversharp Skyline you suggested. What price points do you see for those. Anything in particular to watch out for with that model?

I am actually setting up a page in the free form database I use, Treepad, to record all this information. You folks go to the trouble to help me out, I don't want to lose any of the information. Treepad, by the way is an excellent free form database. It is essentially a word processor with a directory tree organization function. It does much more, like export ready to use webpages, but that is its main functionality.

No, I am not terribly picky, except about function. What I call "honest use marks" don't concern me. Even if one were scratched, but had good function, it wouldn't be a problem.

[dr.grace]

I have had a few Skylines, but I think only one with a flexible nib. Nice pens, but I don't think you can tell by looking at the nibs whether they're flexible or not. So you have to believe the seller's description. Except for one, I paid less than $50 for each of them, but that was some years ago.

I'm still wondering if you've tried a flex nib, so you know that you want one. It takes practice to be actually able to make good use of flex nibs. After trying a few, I decided I wasn't happy with the way I wrote with them, and I wasn't willing to put in the time needed to learn. YMMV.

[Cob]

I have had a few Skylines, but I think only one with a flexible nib. Nice pens, but I don't think you can tell by looking at the nibs whether they're flexible or not. So you have to believe the seller's description. Except for one, I paid less than $50 for each of them, but that was some years ago.

I'm still wondering if you've tried a flex nib, so you know that you want one. It takes practice to be actually able to make good use of flex nibs. After trying a few, I decided I wasn't happy with the way I wrote with them, and I wasn't willing to put in the time needed to learn. YMMV.

A good point made in your second paragraph: I enjoy using the flexible nibs I have very much; but my handwriting is better with a stub or italic nib.

What is YMMV?

Cob

[tandaina]

Here is a head scratch-er for you. What is the most frugal way to get into gold nibs? I mean gold nibs, not gold plated stainless steel. The suggestion could be a straight pen purchase. It could be the combination of one pen with the purchase of a nib from somewhere else. It is up to you. +

Buy vintage. Not really hard at all to find good quality vintage pens with gold nibs for und $100. The Parker 51 is an excellent example. If you are willing to learn restoration there are tons of second tier pens floating around with gold nibs and otherwise boring bodies not valued by collectors. I bought one once for $10. Resacked it and discovered the nib was also *flexible*.

[lowks]

I got a Croxley pen from Stef of Grandmia pens which I am very happy with. It has the right amount of flex but not too much that it's not usable in everyday writing.

The price too is very affordable.

20773

[Armstrong]

I'm still wondering if you've tried a flex nib, so you know that you want one. {dr. grace}

I have tried Noodler's and had no problem writing with them, other than the huge amount of ink they used. Not interested in calligraphy as much as trying a flex in gold because Noodler's were so scratchy. I do a lot of writing. I tend to write with a light pressure, so the flex doesn't come much into play unless I press purposefully to bring attention to a particular letter. Having arthritis in my fingers is one reason I got interested in fountain pens because of the light pressure usually needed. Still, we are getting away from what I am after which is a semi-flex. I don't intend on doing a lot of 'fancy' writing. But, it would be nice to use the wider strokes to draw attention to words, to start a paragraph, that kind of thing.

I have not seen any mention of places to purchase nibs. Just for example, one might pick up say a common Pilot, get a Pilot soft nib, and change it out. I don't know if it is possible with Pilot or not, just an example. Or more likely, take any pen that you know the nib size for, get a semi-flex gold nib, and change out the nib.

Bringing an old pen back into operation would be gratifying. A very good place to take one's hobby for sure. But, changing out sacs brings to my mind careful, small, detailed manipulation probably with a limited time window. My short meaty fingers are not good at that type of thing so I would hesitate to take on that specific task.

Wow, gorgeous pen! Thanks for the reference I will check it out.

[dr.grace]

It sounds like you might want to look for nibs that don't flex with light pressure but when more pressure is applied, they have a bit of give for occasional broad lines. The vintage Pelikan nibs can be like that. You could ask a seller about the degree of flex, with that in mind.

As for buying nibs, one problem is that typically they are not standardized (except for some of the modern pens that are made to use nibs from one of a few nib manufacturers that sell to other companies that make pens). It's often a matter of trial and error to fit one into your pen. Certain pen companies deliberately make nib units that are interchangeable, as with some Pelikan nibs. The other problem is that some manufacturers (such as Pilot) don't sell nibs or nib units separately. In the rare cases where I've seen Pilot nibs for sale separately, the cost was nearly the same as buying an entire new pen.

[Jon Szanto]

It sounds like you might want to look for nibs that don't flex with light pressure but when more pressure is applied, they have a bit of give for occasional broad lines. The vintage Pelikan nibs can be like that. You could ask a seller about the degree of flex, with that in mind.

As for buying nibs, one problem is that typically they are not standardized (except for some of the modern pens that are made to use nibs from one of a few nib manufacturers that sell to other companies that make pens). It's often a matter of trial and error to fit one into your pen. Certain pen companies deliberately make nib units that are interchangeable, as with some Pelikan nibs. The other problem is that some manufacturers (such as Pilot) don't sell nibs or nib units separately. In the rare cases where I've seen Pilot nibs for sale separately, the cost was nearly the same as buying an entire new pen.

This. Dr. Grace said a lot of what I would have said. I'm always amazed at the couple of vintage Pelikans we have in the house, and how perfectly suited they are as semi-flex. It really allows you to do a lot of fast writing with very type-like character, or put just a little pressure, slow down, and get very nice line variation. With a very flexible nib, you need a lot more control (and practice?) if you ever want to use the nib in a non-flex situation.

And the totally non-standard nature of all of this makes it pretty hard to know what you are getting unless you can try it yourself.

Since the OP has recently described the semi-flex nature of their search and the desire to use little pressure, has the Pilot Falcon been mentioned? (I might have missed it). This is the only modern production-line pen that would seem a good fit, and actually a pretty good fit at that.

[Armstrong]

Both the Pelikan and the Pilot Falcon sound like what I am looking for. The Pilot is a price point I might consider - after - some experimentation to make sure that is what I want. Actually, both of those, Pelikan in general and the Pilot Falcon are pens I was already interested in. The Pelikan, I would be looking in the used pen or for the Pelikan vintage or near vintage market. A new one is beyond the pale. Thank you fellas, those are great points and information.

Let me see if I can summarize an approach to this problem of purchasing gold, semi-flex nibs on a budget.

First, I really need to experiment to see what I prefer as a user. From the information received here I think keeping a weather eye out for vintage or 'near-vintage' pens that are a good deal is the first step. Considering pens with cosmetic defects will lower the cost. Try some of these to gain a base of user knowledge and refine my preferences.

Second, I think I will put the Pilot Falcon, soft-broad, on my Christmas list. I expect this will be a great user pen and perfect for carrying to town, signing documents and the like. My only reservation about it would be ink capacity so using it for extended studies might not be it's niche. I like the section's shape and length very much, though the section and pen are a little thinner than I prefer generally. (When I do a lot of writing, like studying a topic, I currently use eye dropper conversions or my TWSBI's.)

Third, as a longer term project, keep a weather eye out for a good deal on a Pelikan piston fill model in the vintage / near vintage market.

A possible fourth approach would be to buy a nib or nib + feed from a vintage retailer of a size that might fit a modern pen. Get a lower cost modern pen with acceptable dimensions and mate the new pen with the old nib or nib + feed. This however would require more knowledge than I currently possess to help insure success. So, that may be something I will address down the road.

Does that sound like a reasonable summary of the information in this thread? Also, are there any good books to learn pen repair from? This could be a possible fifth avenue to explore (as was mentioned above) and a good knowledge base to support all the above.

[Jon Szanto]

Nothing that can be described in words will come close to the experience of using these nibs. It simply won't work. As such, and especially for vintage, you may not hit the mark the first time out, Or second, etc. You'll eventually find what you want.

As to repair resources, two great things to have on hand:

1. Recently, Richard Binder has put both his Pen Glossopedia and a first volume of Pen Repair into e-book form. You can find links to the books on his site.
2. Of inestimable value, as well, is "Pen Repair, 3rd Ed.", but Marshall and Oldfield. Available from numerous online sources.

With those items in hand, you are more than ready to start messing around with funky pens and getting them all pristine and working.

[Armstrong]

Most excellent, thank you very much. To find Mr. Binder's books I went to his webpage. The link to the book page is
http://www.richardspens.com/?page=books/richard.htm (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=books/richard.htm) . The PC epub ebook price makes these a must have I think.



I went ahead and got all three books from Richard's Pens. I also ordered a staple bound repair book from Fountain Pen Hospital. I already have a couple of near Vintage pens that could use some attention so I will start with them. Wish me luck! Then I will seriously start the Frugal Gold Nib search.

[carlc]

Sorry I have nothing to add to the OP, some very good advice has been given.

However I agree with Cob - I find stubs better for my writing than flex.

Cob: YMMV means 'Your mileage may vary'. In other words: we're all individuals (I read most pen discussions with this as an implicit statement in my mind).

Lowks - nice pen!

[Armstrong]

I am a big fan of stubs myself, to the point I will probably change all my daily writers over to 1.1mm stubs. But, I at least want to give flex or semi flex a reasonable try and I don't consider a Noodler's Ahab a serious try. Although my main complaint about them was the scratchiness so I may try to polish one for fun since I have a couple Noodler's. But if I don't give a gold flex nib a try I will never know how I will feel about it. If I don't like flex I will stop at the low cost vintage / near vintage no name stage - not much lost, experience gained. I also plan to give restoration a serious effort so those might as well be the early targets. I am quite excited actually, can't wait to wade in. Have to get the home projects done before winter first though...

[KBeezie]

I'm still wondering if you've tried a flex nib, so you know that you want one. {dr. grace}



I have tried Noodler's and had no problem writing with them


Those are not flex nibs, they're not even springy, they're basically steel nibs that exhibit line variation with a high tolerance to pain (due to the extreme amount of press required).

If that's your main experience with 'flex' I suggest going the cheap dip nib route first to develop a light hand (or least get a sort of understanding why it's difficult) with something like a zebra-g nib, considered firm by people who deal with actual flex nibs, but is a lot 'looser' than the noodler's, basically if you don't a box of those and can handle them without scratching up Rhodia you can probably safely mess with some of the flexier vintage nibs without killing them. A box of nibs usually around $10-15, and a holder can be as cheap as $2.

If you just want a little line variation (like no more than 3-4x the starting width), that doesn't spread immediately on touch you probably want semi-flex or springy nibs which there are a lot more of, which will be easier for scribbling quickly for some things, but you can give it just a little more nudge for some variation. And may be more tolerant to a heavy hand.

edit: My only issue with stubs personally is they tend to be too 'fat' for my taste on the downstroke, and sometimes I want a thinner down, also if I do get an italic I prefer cursive italic where it's sharper on the corner and capable of a thinner cross-stroke (creating a greater degree of line variation), but are more likely to grab the paper if the nib doesn't remain level to the paper.

[pajaro]

I don't care to try to learn to use flexible nibs for line variation, so the ones I happened to get I just write lightly with, as I do with all fountain pens. As per above, if I want line variation I use a stub or italic nib. I am left handed, and this seems to complicate things. I have a few old Waterman pens that were cheap, a Crusader and others where the nibs flex somewhat. I just use them with a light touch. Inexpensive gold nibs.

I have used a lot of different pens. Most are alright or almost alright. Many are affordable. Then there are pens that might have cost a little more, but are many times better than the just alright pens. These are fairly few. So, do you want an inexpensive sort of good pen, or do you want something really good? Really good does not mean hundreds of dollars cost, and some of the really good pens also have steel nibs gold plated. Some of the latter can have a nib changed out (by owner) for a gold nib from the same manufacturer, as in a really good Waterman Phileas with a gold plated nib that can be exchanged for an 18K Waterman L'etalon nib which snaps onto the Phileas feed. Nib and feed being a friction fit.

Frankly, I have used many of the pens mentioned, and the ones of these I have used are ones I do not use any more.

[Cob]

As an example here's a very broad stub (tips measure 1.6mm). There were quite a few flexible stubs produced by Mabie Todd in the 1920s, and in my opinion, they are well worth seeking out.

Cob

20811

[Armstrong]

As an example here's a very broad stub

Beautiful! Mabie Todd on the list ;-) As I said earlier I am capturing this information and putting it into a free form database I use. It is already a help in resource tracking and sorting out flex, semi flex, and hard. I may export the page to html and post it online. If I do, I'll note it in the forum.




Those are not flex nibs, they're not even springy, they're basically steel nibs that exhibit line variation with a high tolerance to pain (due to the extreme amount of press required).


No argument there, especially the pain part as I have osteo-arthritis in my fingers. Which is the main reason I first started using FPens, for the light pressure needed. Of course, I got bit by the bug pretty quickly LOL. I may give that a try. I am really after a semi-flex so that may be close to that. This probably would not be a daily user, more likely a signature pen and the like. Haven't used a dip pen before, so that may be a fun thing to do.


for an 18K Waterman L'etalon nib which snaps onto the Phileas feed. Nib and feed being a friction fit.
Thank you for that info, it is what has been lacking in this thread. Brands to look for that nibs can be swapped out within. That approach is definitely something I would consider. But, again budget... So, if were it were a higher dollar pen I would not pursue it until I was sure it was something I would use a lot. But, it will certainly go into my table so I can keep track of that option. Thank you!



By the way, I perused a few pages of the restoration book from Richard's pens last night. Just with a casual look I learned a ton of stuff. Think that series of books is going to be a huge help in the education department. He also has a lot of material on his website, well worth some time spent browsing it.

[inklord]

In my experience, the Pilot gold nibs aren't like nails. They definitely have a nicer feel than steel nibs. Also, certain Pilot models can come with a "soft" nib, which would have more give to it.

Hard to beat the plain plastic Falcon/Elabo: reg. $140.- here, around $100 from Japan. Great nib, full spectrum from EF to B, pretty wet writer, good semi-flex and can be modified for even more flex. Pen can easily be eyedropper-filled for over 4 ml ink capacity, and regularly accepts the small con50 converter for quick ink changes. My wife has two of those and loves them both for line variation and smoothness. You can also turn the nib on its back and use it either as a superfine nib or, held flat on the paper, as a textmarker with light ink or as a broad-stroke brush. Pretty amazing pens!

[Armstrong]

Yes I think the black and rhodium or the red and gold Falcon will be on my Christmas list.

[mhosea]

Well, I'll say this about the Pilot Falcon. I enjoyed playing with it, but when it came time to work, I didn't like trying to write with it. I think as I jot mathematics down more quickly, it's harder for me to keep a really light hand.

[KBeezie]

Well, I'll say this about the Pilot Falcon. I enjoyed playing with it, but when it came time to work, I didn't like trying to write with it. I think as I jot mathematics down more quickly, it's harder for me to keep a really light hand.

Plus the extra-wet feed doesn't help either. I found the Platinum Century 3776 with a 14k Soft Fine to be more practical in that sense.

[stub]

Many gold nibs are as stiff as steel nibs, so it matters which ones you choose if you're looking for a new experience.


Want TWO gold nib bargains that aren't nails? DO YOU? huh? do you? Under $50.

Can't be done?

Watch me do it and thank me later:

Sheaffer Admiral Snorkel
Amazing 14k nib. Many restored all over creation for cheap. Some of those nibs have spring, and heck if you get one with a gold filler tube the melt value is likely more than you will pay for the pen restored. Parker 45s are always trotted out as the cheap awesome vintage bargain option but the Admiral eats the P45 for lunch. The p45 is ugly and has that hard weird little nib. Sheaffer Admiral Snorkels can be found all over for about the same price and just an overall vastly superior pen. </unpopular_opinion> The Sheaffer Saratoga Snorkel is also found often in about the same price or a tad more and darned if some of those are genuine semi flex pens.

What? You hate vintage?

Platinum 14k Standard
No frills. Kind of plastic-y .... but that nib. I have been mean to mine and so far it has held up great. A great bargain 14k pen with some spring.

heh.

[stub]

Here's a Statesman Touchdown, the Saratoga's older brother and similar (if not same) 2 tone nib.

http://cl.ly/image/262p22040M0A/20150410_225911_20150410231237431.jpg

[migo984]

The p45 is ugly and has that hard weird little nib.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the P45 is a design classic in mine. And you've obviously never written with one of the softer gold nibbed P45s.

[Cookies]

Just took a quick glance, but there seem to be a few which fit your requirements here http://www.fountainpenrecycler.com/vintage-pens/

[mhosea]

The p45 is ugly and has that hard weird little nib.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the P45 is a design classic in mine. And you've obviously never written with one of the softer gold nibbed P45s.

Agree that the 14K nibs are not "hard". Not looking to sell this blue 45 with the 2-tone cap as it's below my threshold for price that I'm willing to bother with, but if the OP wants to buy it, I could manage to set my threshold aside.

20891

[stub]

My P45 comment was mostly mean with a wink. I actually don't hate the pen and admire that it is made with like 6 pieces and comes apart easily and is a great ink tester pen.

But, I have indeed failed to get a good one with a "soft gold nib" every single one I have had has been a hard little rock. Would love to find one that represents a "good" p45 to see what I have been missing out on all these years.

[Armstrong]

LOL well done Stub! I'll add those to my list.

I like the look of the Parker 45 but I think it is a little skinny for my fingers. Those hidden nibs have a certain appeal for me though. You wouldn't think a millimeter or two would make a difference in the section size but it does, for me at least. I'm not looking to buy right at the moment, have a ton of house-work being done which has consumed my budget - painting, vanity replaced, plaster and so on. This is more of a long term project in the fact gathering stage now.

Cookies, thanks for the link. I have not run across that one before. Those look like good prices. Have to give it serious going over in a month or so when things slow down around here.

But, I did splurge and ordered a Pendelton Brown BLS custom nib for my TWSBI 580 at $70. A spur of the moment impulse after watching a video review. The TWSBI 580 is my workhorse and I know it inside and out. Can't wait to get it the nib and put it into use. I will do a sample for you, but my handwriting is so bad I print! It's not a gold nib, an experiment.

[Armstrong]

As I am building my data table from this thread, certain brands seem to be popping up. Sheaffer shows up the most, followed closely by Pilot. Scheaffer in the vintage category and Pilot in the new category. The next are Parker and Platinum in the same relative categories. Followed by scattered mentions of Pelikan, Wahl-Eversharp, and Swan Mabie Todd. Though I have a hard time considering a Pelikan in the frugal category. Not that it isn't, if you take the meaning of frugal as a good deal for the money as versus cheap. The price point is considerably higher compared to most of the others however.

So, when the budget clears, I will probably start searching the Sheaffer offerings foremost and I will likely pick up a Pilot in the next year sometime. Also keeping an eye out in general for the words flex and semi-flex in the descriptions. I do plan to make an effort to become competent in restoration for fun and skill building. I can imagine a pen you restored to useful life would quickly become a favorite. This thread has been a good education and I want to thank everyone for their contributions.

[mhosea]

Flexy Sheaffers are neither plentiful nor cheap, as Sheaffer went mostly to thick, rigid nibs in the 1920s.

[Armstrong]

Thanks Mike, good to know. I plan to become proficient at FPen repair. So maybe I can pick one up that way. Just have to keep my eyes open. To do any flex writing of any length I am going to need a gold nib. I have a good bit of osteo-arthritis in my right hand, the thumb is pretty bad. So, flexy steel nibs are of limited use for me due to the pressure required. Just wrote my mother a letter using the Pendleton Brown. I love the nib but it is a stainless custom. I'll do a short review after I have practiced with it. Nice performing wet nib, very smooth. That makes me happy because I love my TWSBI 580's. But, for light pressure I need to find a good gold flex nib. I plan to get both a true flex and semi-flex. See which (or both) I like. Then decide for what uses to put them to. Probably later this fall before I get serious about it. Have to spend too much money on the house this month and next.

[AltecGreen]

Thanks Mike, good to know. I plan to become proficient at FPen repair. So maybe I can pick one up that way. Just have to keep my eyes open. To do any flex writing of any length I am going to need a gold nib. I have a good bit of osteo-arthritis in my right hand, the thumb is pretty bad. So, flexy steel nibs are of limited use for me due to the pressure required. Just wrote my mother a letter using the Pendleton Brown. I love the nib but it is a stainless custom. I'll do a short review after I have practiced with it. Nice performing wet nib, very smooth. That makes me happy because I love my TWSBI 580's. But, for light pressure I need to find a good gold flex nib. I plan to get both a true flex and semi-flex. See which (or both) I like. Then decide for what uses to put them to. Probably later this fall before I get serious about it. Have to spend too much money on the house this month and next.

The material of the nib is not that important in relation to flex. You can find vintage wet noodle steel nibs although these tend to be either vintage Japanese or Italian nibs. Dip pen nibs are super flexible and the tool of choice of master penmen. On the flip side, many gold nibs are quite stiff (e.g. Sailor, Sheaffer). If you want to get serious, get a an oblique dip pen holder and use dip pens. This is the choice of professionals and the most frugal option.

[Armstrong]

Excellent idea, thank you very much! I will have to investigate that. I know nothing about dip pens so I will have to do some reading.

Actually that is something I have wondered about. Steel is used to make springs. So, it seems to me that it should be possible to make a nib of any desired flexibility from steel. It is just a matter of heat treatment and how thick the material the nib is made from.

[KBeezie]

Thanks Mike, good to know. I plan to become proficient at FPen repair. So maybe I can pick one up that way. Just have to keep my eyes open. To do any flex writing of any length I am going to need a gold nib. I have a good bit of osteo-arthritis in my right hand, the thumb is pretty bad. So, flexy steel nibs are of limited use for me due to the pressure required. Just wrote my mother a letter using the Pendleton Brown. I love the nib but it is a stainless custom. I'll do a short review after I have practiced with it. Nice performing wet nib, very smooth. That makes me happy because I love my TWSBI 580's. But, for light pressure I need to find a good gold flex nib. I plan to get both a true flex and semi-flex. See which (or both) I like. Then decide for what uses to put them to. Probably later this fall before I get serious about it. Have to spend too much money on the house this month and next.

The material of the nib is not that important in relation to flex. You can find vintage wet noodle steel nibs although these tend to be either vintage Japanese or Italian nibs. Dip pen nibs are super flexible and the tool of choice of master penmen. On the flip side, many gold nibs are quite stiff (e.g. Sailor, Sheaffer). If you want to get serious, get a an oblique dip pen holder and use dip pens. This is the choice of professionals and the most frugal option.

This thing was Soooooooo easy to flex, barely needed a touch, and it's steel.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/edel/uncapped.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/edel/write.jpg

[Armstrong]

Beautiful hard rubber pen. How did you get a cork plug the right size to fit?

[KBeezie]

I didn't, lexaf did, and it's bakelite, only the grip and feed are hard rubber.

[Jon Szanto]

Beautiful hard rubber pen. How did you get a cork plug the right size to fit?

You might find this thread (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/254348-an-exiting-project/) an interesting read about these pens. Lex Van Galen found a big bunch of old, no-name German piston fillers and decided to restore them. In the process it documented all his work, which is fascinating in itself, but then over a couple of years he would release these pens for sale, and at extremely reasonable prices. A wonderful guy, very nice, and one of the sweeter pen projects of the last few years. I've got a couple of them myself, and it is fun to have something so unique.

[KBeezie]

Beautiful hard rubber pen. How did you get a cork plug the right size to fit?

You might find this thread (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/254348-an-exiting-project/) an interesting read about these pens. Lex Van Galen found a big bunch of old, no-name German piston fillers and decided to restore them. In the process it documented all his work, which is fascinating in itself, but then over a couple of years he would release these pens for sale, and at extremely reasonable prices. A wonderful guy, very nice, and one of the sweeter pen projects of the last few years. I've got a couple of them myself, and it is fun to have something so unique.

I got mine second hand from someone who bought from him, the cork gave out, lexaf mailed me some corks and rubber stoppers (Depending on which route I wanted to go), I sent it off with some other pens, but he hasn't been able to figure out how to replace the cork or the rubber gasket so it's coming back to me incomplete (may have to send it to someone else who has the capability). But that nib was really fun, and for $20 a hell of a lot better than a noodler's flex pen.

[Armstrong]

Beautiful hard rubber pen. How did you get a cork plug the right size to fit?

You might find this thread (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/254348-an-exiting-project/) an interesting read about these pens. Lex Van Galen found a big bunch of old, no-name German piston fillers and decided to restore them. In the process it documented all his work, which is fascinating in itself, but then over a couple of years he would release these pens for sale, and at extremely reasonable prices. A wonderful guy, very nice, and one of the sweeter pen projects of the last few years. I've got a couple of them myself, and it is fun to have something so unique.

I got mine second hand from someone who bought from him, the cork gave out, lexaf mailed me some corks and rubber stoppers (Depending on which route I wanted to go), I sent it off with some other pens, but he hasn't been able to figure out how to replace the cork or the rubber gasket so it's coming back to me incomplete (may have to send it to someone else who has the capability). But that nib was really fun, and for $20 a hell of a lot better than a noodler's flex pen.

I had an idea on that but it might take some doing. You could buy some cork of the proper thickness, or trim it to that thickness. If you can find a metal pipe with an inner diameter that matches your pen barrel. Put the pipe in a drill press or lathe so the pipe turns. Then use a sharpening stone on the outer surface until you cut a bevel on the outside all the way to the inside. If you keep that angle shallow enough it might cut the cork to fit the pen. A lot of work though. I have cut holes in stacks of paper by a similar technique and it did work.

You might be able to fashion a gasket from an tire inner tube if it is a flexible rubber as some of the old pens seem to have.