Leather Cases...pen staining/damage

[Sandy Fry]

Hi,
not sure if this is the right place to post this so Moderators please feel free to move it to proper place.

Anywho, I have read that leather cases are not a great place to store/carry your pens due to the possibility of damage to the materials the pen is made from ( silver, celluloid...etc. ) so why are so many cases made from leather??? Should I be looking for cases made of some other material?

I did notice some tarnishing to the silver clips on some of my pens but just assumed it was because silver tarnishes if you don't use it constantly. is there something to this leather case staining/damage/tarnishing thing then?

Thanks

David

[Paddler]

If the chemicals used in tanning the leather weren't washed out afterward, they can purely eat hell out of any metal they come in contact with. I don't know what they do to plastics, hard rubber, etc. I had some leather that I made knife sheaths, an ax sheath, and an arrow quiver from. I had rusted knives, arrow points, and an ugly ax. I had to throw the whole lot away.

[mhosea]

Most multi-pen leather cases don't put leather in direct contact with the pens, only the small ones that hold one, two, or three pens. I have heard the admonition not to store pens in leather before. I have a few of the small leather cases that actually have leather touching the pen. I use these for carrying, not for storage.

[Wahl]

As Mike said, leather cases for storage should be lined with a soft fabric.

[SteveE]

All of the above, BUT there are exceptions.

For example, I have a 4-pen leather case that I purchased from Levenger's about 10 years ago. I have noted absolutely no damage to any of the pens I've kept in it. I do not keep the same pens in it all the time, but I do have pens in it for weeks at a time while they are in rotation. I don't know how you would know in advance which leather cases were safe, but there are some.

[Kaputnik]

This forum can be informative, but it can also make one paranoid. I've got an Aston leather pen case, this one (http://www.gouletpens.com/aston-leather-cognac-10-slot-pen-case/p/Aston-Case10-CN), although I bought it from a different dealer than the one in the link. I use it to store 10 of the pens which are most likely to be in my current rotation, so there are generally one to three empty slots in there, but the pens that are there are touching leather. They are mostly of plastic like substances, but a couple are metal. I've been using it for about a year now, and haven't noticed any ill effects. Can I assume that this case is one of the safe ones, or am I living on borrowed time? :noidea: I also have a couple of Aston pen slips, but don't use those for long term storage. I have some old BCHR pens in a leather pen roll; they've been there for a couple of years at least and seem fine.

It does sound very plausible, but had never occurred to me before. Has anyone had problems with their pens and leather pen cases from a recognized manufacturer?

[jar]

Not all leather is equal, and the devil is in the details and we seldom get told the details.

[bluesea]

I have the Nagasaki five pen leather roll with tying strap (they also have a strapless three piece holder). Of the two questions I asked, they did not answer if the roll was suitable for long term storage. I'm planning to use this as a desk roll, holding most of my pens but we'll see.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/171956637947?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[stub]

I used leather pen slips for many many years. So many of my pens now have lost all their plating. I always thought it was Sheaffer's meager plating but then I noticed that so many other pens suffered the same fate, if less quickly. My Sheaffer Targa is down to the brass, the cap band on my vacumatic is also just brass now as well and the metal on all my Sheaffer vacs are toast too. I wish I knew about this years ago. Recently I went over to the Levenger slips and am hoping they are better. I am generally a sleeve guy but I learned the hard way that leather can be hard on plated metals.

[Sandy Fry]

So it's not just me then. I store most of my pens in those " binders" that hold 48 pens but it is lined with some kind of material so I am assuming they are going to be ok. However, like SteveE I also have pens that I carry on a regular basis in a 3 pen leather case for weeks on end.
So, it seems that there is a definite issue with leather and pens. Are there any brands that make cases from materials other than leather that afford the same protection abilities??? Or does anyone make lined 3 pen leather cases that don't cost an arm and leg?

Thanks for the input folks. It is much appreciated.

David

[stub]

Levenger makes a triple. The Carezza Triple Pen Sleeve.

I love their sleeves and while they are still leather (and suede on the inside) so far they have not given me the trouble the other pen sleeves I own have. Perhaps they are treated differently but I have yet to see them do anything to the plating of metal parts that like old sleeves did.

[bluesea]

When using a leather case one of the first thoughts that comes to mind is friction wear. I've been meaning to order one to two Nakaya silk wraps (kimono).

[Sandy Fry]

Levenger makes a triple. The Carezza Triple Pen Sleeve.

I love their sleeves and while they are still leather (and suede on the inside) so far they have not given me the trouble the other pen sleeves I own have. Perhaps they are treated differently but I have yet to see them do anything to the plating of metal parts that like old sleeves did.

I will look them up.

Thanks

David

[stub]

FYI currently on Massdrop for a discount.

[Rusty888]

Someone will correct me but what people usually mean. Sterling silver does tarnish under certain circumstances. For me my Wall Street LE in my Porsche design case. However if you have a polishing cloth it fixes it straight away.

[mhosea]

Levenger makes a triple. The Carezza Triple Pen Sleeve.

I love their sleeves and while they are still leather (and suede on the inside) so far they have not given me the trouble the other pen sleeves I own have. Perhaps they are treated differently but I have yet to see them do anything to the plating of metal parts that like old sleeves did.

I have one of those, too. Very nice. I do suspect the suede on the inside is safe for long-term contact. Not sure what will happen if you put it in a time capsule for 100 years, but I don't worry about that one. OTOH, leaving pens in my Aston 10-pen case with the case closed led to a rather peculiar tarnish over time, but I am uncertain and am uncomfortable making any solid claims to that effect. That one is lined, but my thought was that the leather might be out-gasses something. If I were using it for storage, I'd leave it unzipped.

[MY63]

I am going to stick my neck out here and try to cast some light on this issue.
There are many different types of leather available they can usually be aligned into two distinct categories.

Firstly Chrome tanned leather this is the most common. Years ago the chrome salts used were toxic and if not rinsed thoroughly harm then damage could result.
There are still some tanneries in some parts of the world where these old type of tanneries may still exist. However these chrome salts are no longer used certainly in the UK, Europe and the USA.
Chrome tanned leathers are used for furniture, car seats , clothing, footwear, and just about everything else you can think of that is made from leather.

Secondly Vegetable tanned leather
This is a more natural product hides are tanned in bark and vegetable matter it takes longer and the product is more expensive. It is not always as soft as chrome tanned leather.
If steel comes into contact with unfinished wet veg tanned leather the tannin in the leather will turn black but in the years I have worked with leather and suede I have not seen any damage at all.

Suede of course is leather that is processed in a slightly different way it has been used in jewellery boxes for years and is deemed perfectly safe for precious metals.

I hope I have answered some of the questions and would be happy to answer any other questions.

Here is a video about leather tanning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfCynioOy9s

[Sandy Fry]

Very informative.

My next question is...how difficult would it be to line a case with a "safe" material during manufacturing? Would there be a significant price increase to do so? I have seen some 2 or 3 pen cases made of leather that are $100 or more. If I am spending that kind of money I would like to know my pens are safe from damage.

David

[jar]

Very informative.

My next question is...how difficult would it be to line a case with a "safe" material during manufacturing? Would there be a significant price increase to do so? I have seen some 2 or 3 pen cases made of leather that are $100 or more. If I am spending that kind of money I would like to know my pens are safe from damage.

David

Again, I'm not sure there is any one right answer to that. Different pen materials react differently to many things. The manufacturer would need to know pretty much exactly which pens you planned to storing in the case before offering much assurance that they would be protected. Even then, the environment itself can have a big effect; if the case is in the sun or left in a car or stored in a humid environment the pens can be damaged pretty much regardless of the case.

Life involves risks.

[nospam666]

When using a leather case one of the first thoughts that comes to mind is friction wear.

That has always been my concern as well.

[Sandy Fry]

Very informative.

My next question is...how difficult would it be to line a case with a "safe" material during manufacturing? Would there be a significant price increase to do so? I have seen some 2 or 3 pen cases made of leather that are $100 or more. If I am spending that kind of money I would like to know my pens are safe from damage.

David

Again, I'm not sure there is any one right answer to that. Different pen materials react differently to many things. The manufacturer would need to know pretty much exactly which pens you planned to storing in the case before offering much assurance that they would be protected. Even then, the environment itself can have a big effect; if the case is in the sun or left in a car or stored in a humid environment the pens can be damaged pretty much regardless of the case.

Life involves risks.

True. But, if it is fairly well known that leather itself causes damage, lining it with some kind of fabric is more likely to help than hurt right? I see no staining to any of my pens in the FC Penvelope I have which is lined with some type of material. Also, I would never leave my pens in the sun/car or in humid conditions ( helps that I live in the desert! ).
I have noticed that Pen Trays for storage boxes mostly seem to be felt covered so, taking an educated guess, felt must be fairly safe for pens???

David

[jar]

True. But, if it is fairly well known that leather itself causes damage, lining it with some kind of fabric is more likely to help than hurt right? I see no staining to any of my pens in the FC Penvelope I have which is lined with some type of material. Also, I would never leave my pens in the sun/car or in humid conditions ( helps that I live in the desert! ).
I have noticed that Pen Trays for storage boxes mostly seem to be felt covered so, taking an educated guess, felt must be fairly safe for pens???

David

It's not the leather itself but rather the outgassing of chemicals that were used in the tanning process, and what chemicals were used in tanning is the part that we simply seldom know. Most linings will not stop those gasses from passing through.

In the end it comes down to an evaluation of the source. I would trust a leather pen pouch from a major fountain pen maker such as Montblanc, Cartier, Dunhill, ST Dupont, Filofax, Platinum, Pilot, or Sailor but never one from even a big name company like Aston that makes a wide range of products and markets on style. Franklin Christoph would fall between those two extremes simply because they do not have the size to do long term product testing but based on my experience of their customer support I would place them closer to the former group than the latter.

[Sandy Fry]

Thanks Jar. You are a mine of information.

Again, why so many leather cases if this fault is known? I have heard that "vegetable" tanned leather is the safest ( and most expensive way to do it ) but how do you know whether the case you buy is vegetable tanned or not? Some companies claim their cases are made from vegetable tanned leather which is easy to say but hard to prove I guess.

Thanks again.

David

[MY63]

As someone who makes cases from veg tanned leather I should just keep quiet.
Leather is safe there is a link below to an article from the EPA detailing the use Chromium salts in leather tanning.
Chromium 3 salts are used in the leather tanning process Chromium 6 is the toxic stronger salt.

http://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch09/final/c9s15.pdf

I hope this information helps you find a suitable pen case if you want to be certain that veg tanned leather has been used then a custom case might be your best option then you can specify the materials used.

Regards

Michael

[Sandy Fry]

An interesting read Michael.

Now I am just as confused as I was to begin with! There does not seem to be that much of a difference in the tanning processes and, from what I gather from the article, nothing suggests one method is safer than the other.

I have a few leather cases and it is the one I use the most ( unbranded and can't remember the site I bought it from ) that seems to tarnish the silver clips. It does not seem to affect the chrome clips though. I am beginning to wonder if it is just the oils from my hands when I remove the pens that is causing the tarnishing and not the leather case at all.

Once again, I thank you all for your insight and input. It is much appreciated. I will continue to use my leather cases and purchase a silver polishing cloth.

David

[nospam666]

If they're sterling silver, they'll tarnish no matter what.

If they're just silver toned, could be different story.

[avjayachandran]

Maybe spraying my Cross two pen leather case should be sprayed with Scotch Guard.
Thanks
Vivek

[Hawk]

Michael, I'm glad you entered the thread. Maybe it answers questions people have.
From personal experience, I have seen some green bloom around brass rivets which scraped off the leather with a fingernail. The environment was probably harsh.
I have two carbon steel sheath knives that show no rusting or deterioration after being cased in leather for 55 years. A different example for one to consider.

[Armstrong]

On leather and acid.

There are two main classes of tanning methods: vegetable or veg tan and chromium. Veg. Tan leather is used for holster, sheaths and such because of its low acid content. I have had knives in veg. tan sheaths for years on years with no problems. Still I suspect the acid level can vary and knives are often carried in leather but stored outside of it. Since I treat all my steel weaponry with Sentry Cloths which puts a molecular bonded micro-film on the iron (and iron only) I generally do not have any problems storing in leather.

Metal or chromium tanned leather is acidic and leaves a significant level of acid in the leather. Most leather is tanned this way because it is cheaper and I think faster. All garment and upholstery leather is done this way. Most if not all suede leather is done this way. This should not be put in contact with metal and the acid in this leather will attack metal.

How to tell them apart? Look at the edge of the leather. If it is a light tan color it is probably veg tan. Chromium tanned will be a significant gray in color if not dyed. Even if dyed often the edges will still be gray. Still if you don't know for sure I would be careful. And certainly lining a case with cloth would be helpful.