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iosepus
October 30th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Are Take-sumi (Iroshizuku) (http://estilofilos.blogspot.jp/2012/10/november-inks-in-october.html) and Pilot's black the same ink?

It looks so to my eyes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S4SrBL1r6fo/UI9Pf3ubgrI/AAAAAAAAEHI/3yuIZ83VtxM/s1600/Iroshizuku2012et%2Bal%2B002-blog3-WM.jpg
(http://estilofilos.blogspot.jp/2012/10/inks-and-marketing.html)
The problem is the price difference between them...

Cheers,

Iosepus (http://estilofilos.blogspot.com)

KrazyIvan
October 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
In my non-color corrected monitor they are very similar. Kon Peki looks about right to me so I am assuming the other colors are coming across correct to my eyes.

FP_GaF
October 30th, 2012, 08:59 AM
The picture hints at your conclusion but is too much compressed (JPEG artefacts) to draw definite conclusions. Why don't you attempt a chromatographic analysis? Its easy: take two pieces of blotting paper (about A6 size should do). Apply a drop of ink of each sample (one ink per blotting paper). Let it dry for a few minutes. Apply a few drops of plain tap water (an eyedropper is very helpful in this operation).

Now, if you store the blotting paper horizontally make sure it is not in contact with the surface (prop it up on something at the edges or corners). In this case apply the drop of water onto the ink. If you store the paper vertically (hanging from a laundry line, for instance) than apply the drop of water above the ink (gravity will assist the capillary separation of ink components).

I have done quite a few chromatograms of my black inks and have been quite "surprised" by what I found in them (everything from greens , reds, purples and even yellows; some have a multitude of components, Diamine Onyx Black, for instance, seems to owe its existence to the kitchen sink...)

One trick I found is to apply the ink generously in a circle (not one ink spot) and then water to the centre of the circle. Capillary motion will draw the ink outward and you get quite good results.

This should tell you right away if your assumption is true. One caveat, though, is that chromatograms only tell you about the mixture of dyes in the ink but nothing about other components such as lubricants and fungicides or even the amount of each dye. But if you would find all the same coulour components that would be a strong hint toward the two inks at least sharing the dyes.

Have fun!

iosepus
October 31st, 2012, 07:25 AM
I did as FP_GaF suggested (thanks!), and the results show these inks were different. I will show the chromatograms once they were dry. The summary is that the Iroshizuku Take-sumi has some blue-violet dyes whereas the regular Pilot Black is fundamentally black with a hint of green tones.

However these differences, their effects on the paper are remarkably similar.

Cheers,

Iosepus (http://estilofilos.blogspot.com)

FP_GaF
November 1st, 2012, 03:04 AM
I did as FP_GaF suggested (thanks!), and the results show these inks were different. I will show the chromatograms once they were dry. The summary is that the Iroshizuku Take-sumi has some blue-violet dyes whereas the regular Pilot Black is fundamentally black with a hint of green tones.

However these differences, their effects on the paper are remarkably similar.

Cheers,

Iosepus (http://estilofilos.blogspot.com)

Glad it worked out for you. I found this simple test is quite revealing and exciting. Looking forward to your pics...

iosepus
November 2nd, 2012, 05:24 AM
Here you have a set of chromograms (http://estilofilos.blogspot.jp/2012/11/chromatography.html) of both the Iroshizuku Take-sumi and the regular, and cheaper, Pilot Black.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-37BmBfZ4nTc/UJOqG1u_TRI/AAAAAAAAEJU/fBMHkTnFp54/s1600/IMG_2890-blog2-WM.jpg (http://estilofilos.blogspot.jp/2012/11/chromatography.html)

The differences in the components are clear. But the results on the paper when writing are remarkably close.

Cheers,

Iosepus (http://estilofilos.blogspot.com)

FP_GaF
November 2nd, 2012, 05:48 AM
That worked out very nicely! I like the side-by-side "plots" on the same paper, that gives an immediate comparison of the two inks. Its the very small details that I find so intriguing. The regular Pilot Black has hints of turquoise at the outer edge and some touches of yellow or orange or so... The Iroshizuku Take-sumi seems to be composed of mainly blue hues with some traces of yellow and purple.

Maybe the dyes in the Iroshizuku Take-sumi are of higher quality (better resistance to ligth? Long-term stability?) and more expensive but I am sure there is some marketing hype in the price as well.

Many Thanks for the nice pictures.

Gerd