How do you repair a PFM cap that is rusting from inside ?

[lowks]

Is there anyway to repair a Sheaffer PFM that has quite substantial rust in the inside ?

[sloegin]

The cap, try a test tube brush.

[lowks]

How to pregent furure rust?

[Jon Szanto]

How to pregent furure rust?

Don't let moisture get in there! Seriously... keep the inside of the cap dry. PFM's don't seem to ever spatter ink, so an occasional paper towel in there should take care of that. If it already has rusted, you might put a little WD40 on a paper towel and wipe it in there and then dry thoroughly, which will inhibit any other rust. After that, if you are in a humid environment, consider keeping it in a pen box/case with some silica gel packets to absorb excess moisture.

I've never heard of rust inside a cap like this, so you should be able to prevent future buildup with sensible storage and use.

[mhosea]

I've never heard of rust inside a cap like this, so you should be able to prevent future buildup with sensible storage and use.

Hmmm. Maybe not rust per se, but almost every Sheaffer from the 40's and 50's with a metal inner cap that I've seen that wasn't NOS had a noticeable amount of corrosion visible on the metal inner cap. I assumed it was just caused by ink exposure. I just clean it out as best I can without resorting to abrasives. I don't use WD40, rather Renaissance Wax inside the cap. Might not be enough, but I figure it's better than nothing.

[Jon Szanto]

I don't use WD40, rather Renaissance Wax inside the cap. Might not be enough, but I figure it's better than nothing.

Good idea, mine was just a suggestion based on other uses. I've never encountered pens with corrosion/rust bad enough to consider a coating.

[stub]

Don't let moisture get in there! Seriously... keep the inside of the cap dry. PFM's don't seem to ever spatter ink.

PFMs always seem to spatter ink in my experience. The ink dribbles out the feed and snorkel tube into the cap and you get that telltale ink all over the bottom of the V of the inlaid nib. I have seen this hundreds of times. Folks think the inlaid nib is leaking. It isn't (hold a fresh tissue of to it while nib up and you will see that no ink is drawn in), it is the ink getting spit into the cap out the feed or the filler tube and settling right where the cap meets the pen. I have yet to own a PFM that does NOT do this.

[stub]

Every PFM, every time, without fail.

http://cl.ly/image/3r0b293S0c2H/PFM.jpg

(yes that is a B nib. It is HUGE)

[kirchh]

Don't let moisture get in there! Seriously... keep the inside of the cap dry. PFM's don't seem to ever spatter ink.

PFMs always seem to spatter ink in my experience. The ink dribbles out the feed and snorkel tube into the cap and you get that telltale ink all over the bottom of the V of the inlaid nib. I have seen this hundreds of times. Folks think the inlaid nib is leaking. It isn't (hold a fresh tissue of to it while nib up and you will see that no ink is drawn in), it is the ink getting spit into the cap out the feed or the filler tube and settling right where the cap meets the pen. I have yet to own a PFM that does NOT do this.

I've never had this ink-dribbling-out-the-Snorkel-tube happen to a properly restored PFM. Who is performing the restorations on your PFMs? What kind of ink are you using?

--Daniel

[stub]

I buy them used from various sources. I have sold off all my PFMs but 2 and both do this (or worse).

I would rather not besmirch the name of the sellers but as some one who owns and has owned more Snorkels and TD than any other pens by a long margin I would like to propose that the number of people who truly know how to restore a Snorkel so that it works correctly and those who THINK they know and can sort of get it to work (kind of) are pretty different numbers indeed. I have several snorkels that arrived DOA or locked up after only a few fills. I live in Korea so often when this happens I clean the pens as best I can and set them in a drawer for the day when I can afford the shipping and the restoration fee on 2 or 3 at a time. I have a whole drawer full of Sheaffer vac, TDs, and Snorkels that need to be rebuilt or are leaking or frozen up.

Restoring a Snorkel so that it sort of works seems pretty easy. Restoring a Snorkel so that it works as it is supposed to, that is: extends, retracts, takes a full fill and doesn't jam or leak ... I can tell you that Ron Zorn and a few others can do that. But a lot of folks are just winging it. I have found buying Snorkels a pretty big crap shoot. I could tell you 4 sellers I have bought from that sold me Snorkels that were less than perfect.

[stub]

Inks: Sheaffer, Montblanc or Iroshizuku are all that I have used in the PFMs recently.

[kirchh]

I buy them used from various sources. I have sold off all my PFMs but 2 and both do this (or worse).

I would rather not besmirch the name of the sellers but as some one who owns and has owned more Snorkels and TD than any other pens by a long margin I would like to propose that the number of people who truly know how to restore a Snorkel so that it works correctly and those who THINK they know and can sort of get it to work (kind of) are pretty different numbers indeed. I have several snorkels that arrived DOA or locked up after only a few fills. I live in Korea so often when this happens I clean the pens as best I can and set them in a drawer for the day when I can afford the shipping and the restoration fee on 2 or 3 at a time. I have a whole drawer full of Sheaffer vac, TDs, and Snorkels that need to be rebuilt or are leaking or frozen up.

Restoring a Snorkel so that it sort of works seems pretty easy. Restoring a Snorkel so that it works as it is supposed to, that is: extends, retracts, takes a full fill and doesn't jam or leak ... I can tell you that Ron Zorn and a few others can do that. But a lot of folks are just winging it. I have found buying Snorkels a pretty big crap shoot. I could tell you 4 sellers I have bought from that sold me Snorkels that were less than perfect.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like the PFMs with which you've had problems were not properly restored; it's not an inherent defect or design fault in the PFM.

--Daniel

[stub]

You would know much better than I. However, I have yet to meet a PFM that did not dribble in the cap.

Could be luck of the draw.

Meanwhile the world keeps turning & I keep a tissue handy.

[mhosea]

I don't know about PFMs, but Targa inlaid nibs do leak sometimes. Perhaps "creep" would be a better word, since the flow rate tends to be quite low. Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure is what restorers recommend, but so far I haven't read any specific instructions on where to apply it for optimal results. I will say that I've taken to applying it with a toothpick by dipping into a drop of it. That gives me better control.

[Jeph]

For corroded metal parts that I can remove I use a penetrating oil, such as Kroil, Corrosion-X or Baristoil (sp?). If it were my pen I would risk coating the metal bits with a q-tip and keep the cap standing up. But I would never do that to someone else's pen. And absolutely do not soak it. I can't prove it, but I strongly expect that the oil will adversely affect the plastic of the cap.

[stub]

Several of my Targa nibs leak around the edges of the nib. My Imperial (<3) and my PFMs don't.

[Jon Szanto]

I've not had a single Targa, Imperial, or PFM inlaid nib leak at the edges. All of mine were either NOS or appeared to have been very well taken care of. I've done a fair amount of reading on the issue, though, and my impression is that the most likely cause is pilot error. Read over on reddit with all the people that start gushing over how flexy their Targa nib is, and - of course - they are just mashing the shit out of it. They might be a bit soft, but overdoing it can stress the inlay.

At least that's my impression. Repair/restoration people with the experience of thousands of pens may have more illumination.

[stub]

I've not had a single Targa, Imperial, or PFM inlaid nib leak at the edges. All of mine were either NOS or appeared to have been very well taken care of. I've done a fair amount of reading on the issue, though, and my impression is that the most likely cause is pilot error. Read over on reddit with all the people that start gushing over how flexy their Targa nib is, and - of course - they are just mashing the shit out of it. They might be a bit soft, but overdoing it can stress the inlay.



Not me. I don't mash my nibs. I didn't start using fountain pens last week and have genuine flex pens, springy nibs and nails and know the difference. You can discount it as user error if you want but I do think so. Targas will sometimes leak around the edges for whatever reason. I have had half a dozen of them and they just sometimes develop leaking, more noticeable with today's more easy flowing inks I suppose. For some reason only Targas. I have had 2 do this so far. I though my PFMs did this too only to discover that they dribble out the feed.

I am not a collector but Sheaffer conical and inlaid nibs dominant my pen landscape, which still makes it a small sample size but there you go.

Dismiss my experience as a n00b if you want but if you google around more than just reddit you will see some experience peeps talking about this issue too.

I like the aesthetics of metal caps on Sheaffer pens, (Sentinal TD deluxe is a heck of a pen) but I do wish there was some easy way to get that green dusty corrosion out of the inside of the caps more easily. I mostly just get in there with a Q tip but find it tiresome.

[Jon Szanto]

Not me. I don't mash my nibs.

... and the rest. Please: you've mis-read me. I thought you had stated that you bought your pens used from various sellers in various states of restoration and semi-restoration. I was indicating that, if these leaks are present, they would more than likely be attributable to poor usage by former owners. I did not mean to imply it was you that caused the pens/nibs to leak. For being unclear in that, I am sorry.

But you have to allow for that fact that this is all simply anecdotal evidence, and that which I am presenting is in contrast to yours. You talk about Targas having a propensity to leak, and then you mention that you've had 2 go down. That's hardly a gigantic statistical sampling.

I've spent a lot of time getting to know these pens, and I've had in-depth discussions with repair people and noted collectors. One of my biggest sources of information on the notion of flex in a Targa nibs come from discussions with Bill Sexauer, who certainly has one of, if not the, largest Targa collections around. I believe I'm on pretty firm ground in the stance that it is not the design and implementation of those nibs that is at fault, but poor use over time. Had it been a common or known flaw, it would be hard to reconcile the fact that the Targa was one of the longest-lived product lines for Sheaffer, on the order of 20 years, and was popular enough to give rise to over 70 models/finishes.

Your mileage seems to have varied, and there could be any number of reasons for this, none of which include or infer n00bishness or ignorance. I hope that clears up any opaqueness in my previous post.

[stub]

Thanks for the expansion/clarification. My lust for Targas was extinguished by getting an Imperial TD from Ron Zorn but the Targa was one of my faves for a long time and for a while I was scoring these cheap/user grade on eBay. No question the province of thoses pens is sketchy at best. Still love the Targa as it is a pen of my era and the B nibs are glorious but the leaking and some weak finishes/plating kind of got to me after a while. My Imperial is full of charm and writes and functions perfectly so I guess that itch was scratched .... till i see a factory stub. Heh.

[lowks]

I've never heard of rust inside a cap like this, so you should be able to prevent future buildup with sensible storage and use.

Hmmm. Maybe not rust per se, but almost every Sheaffer from the 40's and 50's with a metal inner cap that I've seen that wasn't NOS had a noticeable amount of corrosion visible on the metal inner cap. I assumed it was just caused by ink exposure. I just clean it out as best I can without resorting to abrasives. I don't use WD40, rather Renaissance Wax inside the cap. Might not be enough, but I figure it's better than nothing.

Yeah I think mine is corrosion. Looked around for replacement caps but could not find any.

[mhosea]

You would know much better than I. However, I have yet to meet a PFM that did not dribble in the cap.

Could be luck of the draw.

Meanwhile the world keeps turning & I keep a tissue handy.

You don't have pure silicone sacs in there, by any chance? In the last few years we've tried pure silicone sacs, thanks to David Nishimura's efforts. These would be different from the PVC "silicone" sacks that Woodbin sells. Unfortunately, it turned out that pure silicone sacs are a little too gas permeable, which does lead to the phenomenon you describe, at least with other pens. Ron Zorn did try them briefly, but he no longer uses the pure silicone sacs on his clients' pens because those fish tend to come back. He likes the Woodbin PVC sacs for PFMs and Snorkels.

[stub]

You don't have pure silicone sacs in there, by any chance?

I honestly don't know. I may send them out again to get serviced at some point but they fill and work great now other than occasionally dripping into the cap.

Currently rock in a Sentinel Deluxe TD stub these days. Juicier than both PFMs yet doesn't seem to leak into the cap. Non of my TDs dribble.

[Loose Rooster]

I buy them used from various sources. I have sold off all my PFMs but 2 and both do this (or worse).

I would rather not besmirch the name of the sellers but as some one who owns and has owned more Snorkels and TD than any other pens by a long margin I would like to propose that the number of people who truly know how to restore a Snorkel so that it works correctly and those who THINK they know and can sort of get it to work (kind of) are pretty different numbers indeed. I have several snorkels that arrived DOA or locked up after only a few fills. I live in Korea so often when this happens I clean the pens as best I can and set them in a drawer for the day when I can afford the shipping and the restoration fee on 2 or 3 at a time. I have a whole drawer full of Sheaffer vac, TDs, and Snorkels that need to be rebuilt or are leaking or frozen up.

Restoring a Snorkel so that it sort of works seems pretty easy. Restoring a Snorkel so that it works as it is supposed to, that is: extends, retracts, takes a full fill and doesn't jam or leak ... I can tell you that Ron Zorn and a few others can do that. But a lot of folks are just winging it. I have found buying Snorkels a pretty big crap shoot. I could tell you 4 sellers I have bought from that sold me Snorkels that were less than perfect.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like the PFMs with which you've had problems were not properly restored; it's not an inherent defect or design fault in the PFM.

--Daniel

What do you do to a PFM so that this problem doesn't happen?

[kirchh]

I buy them used from various sources. I have sold off all my PFMs but 2 and both do this (or worse).

I would rather not besmirch the name of the sellers but as some one who owns and has owned more Snorkels and TD than any other pens by a long margin I would like to propose that the number of people who truly know how to restore a Snorkel so that it works correctly and those who THINK they know and can sort of get it to work (kind of) are pretty different numbers indeed. I have several snorkels that arrived DOA or locked up after only a few fills. I live in Korea so often when this happens I clean the pens as best I can and set them in a drawer for the day when I can afford the shipping and the restoration fee on 2 or 3 at a time. I have a whole drawer full of Sheaffer vac, TDs, and Snorkels that need to be rebuilt or are leaking or frozen up.

Restoring a Snorkel so that it sort of works seems pretty easy. Restoring a Snorkel so that it works as it is supposed to, that is: extends, retracts, takes a full fill and doesn't jam or leak ... I can tell you that Ron Zorn and a few others can do that. But a lot of folks are just winging it. I have found buying Snorkels a pretty big crap shoot. I could tell you 4 sellers I have bought from that sold me Snorkels that were less than perfect.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like the PFMs with which you've had problems were not properly restored; it's not an inherent defect or design fault in the PFM.

--Daniel

What do you do to a PFM so that this problem doesn't happen?

Not restore it improperly. There are a few guides to the proper restoration of the PFM/Snorkel/Touchdown pens that detail the steps.

--Daniel

[Flounder]

I've not had a single Targa, Imperial, or PFM inlaid nib leak at the edges. All of mine were either NOS or appeared to have been very well taken care of. I've done a fair amount of reading on the issue, though, and my impression is that the most likely cause is pilot error. Read over on reddit with all the people that start gushing over how flexy their Targa nib is, and - of course - they are just mashing the shit out of it. They might be a bit soft, but overdoing it can stress the inlay.

At least that's my impression. Repair/restoration people with the experience of thousands of pens may have more illumination.

This sort of mirrors my experience, in that the only Targa nib that did not leak at the inlay was a NOS unit. Likewise a NOS Imperial. All the used ones Targas leaked, steel or gold, to major or (strangely more maddening) minor degrees, and needed resealed. None of the nibs were sprung, bent or otherwise gave clue to a heavy hand though.

Really beautiful nibs though.

[mhosea]

I'm still kind of suspecting the silicone sac thing on the PFM, which wouldn't be a case of "improper restoration", rather potentially a proper restoration with a choice of sac material that only seemed like a good idea at the time. I think we all wanted silicone to work.

As for Targas leaking, a theory I have is that ultrasonic cleaners can open up little channels that ink can seep through. I use ultrasonic cleaning sparingly, and then only briefly, with Targa nib sections. OTOH, Stephen Brown mentioned in his review of the new-from-Sheaffer Heritage Classic that he got ink on his fingers from the top of the nib (where I think it shouldn't have been), so maybe the quality of the seal is a hit-and-miss thing. Dunno.

[Loose Rooster]

I buy them used from various sources. I have sold off all my PFMs but 2 and both do this (or worse).

I would rather not besmirch the name of the sellers but as some one who owns and has owned more Snorkels and TD than any other pens by a long margin I would like to propose that the number of people who truly know how to restore a Snorkel so that it works correctly and those who THINK they know and can sort of get it to work (kind of) are pretty different numbers indeed. I have several snorkels that arrived DOA or locked up after only a few fills. I live in Korea so often when this happens I clean the pens as best I can and set them in a drawer for the day when I can afford the shipping and the restoration fee on 2 or 3 at a time. I have a whole drawer full of Sheaffer vac, TDs, and Snorkels that need to be rebuilt or are leaking or frozen up.

Restoring a Snorkel so that it sort of works seems pretty easy. Restoring a Snorkel so that it works as it is supposed to, that is: extends, retracts, takes a full fill and doesn't jam or leak ... I can tell you that Ron Zorn and a few others can do that. But a lot of folks are just winging it. I have found buying Snorkels a pretty big crap shoot. I could tell you 4 sellers I have bought from that sold me Snorkels that were less than perfect.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like the PFMs with which you've had problems were not properly restored; it's not an inherent defect or design fault in the PFM.

--Daniel

What do you do to a PFM so that this problem doesn't happen?

Not restore it improperly. There are a few guides to the proper restoration of the PFM/Snorkel/Touchdown pens that detail the steps.

--Daniel

OKay, but specifically what part of the restoration process affects this problem?

[mhosea]

Looked around for replacement caps but could not find any.

I'm thinking somebody has them all, or do these go to some other Sheaffer?

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5698/22666201997_c8653ebe4a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/AwWdba)2015 Ohio Pen Show (https://flic.kr/p/AwWdba) by hector padilla (https://www.flickr.com/photos/00photo/), on Flickr

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5683/22461648264_c39a98d653_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/AdRPtE)2015 Ohio Pen Show (https://flic.kr/p/AdRPtE) by hector padilla (https://www.flickr.com/photos/00photo/), on Flickr

[lowks]

How do I contact this person ?

[mhosea]

How do I contact this person ?

This will take a little gumshoe work. Hector took the photo. He's "inkluminati" on this site. I came across it when viewing his photos of the Ohio Pen Show. I believe he started the thread. Hector may remember which vendor(s) (might be different one for each photo) it was, or somebody else may, in which case that gets you a step closer. Good luck!

[Jon Szanto]

I see PFM parts moderately often on eBay. One seller it might make sense to contact is speerbob, who seems to have a lot of parts.

[lowks]

Finally found a cap from a local pen doctor here :)