Ergonomic Perfection: An Enigma?

[fountainpenkid]

For me, there has and always will be the pen: the Pelikan 400. Since what seems like day one of the hobby, I have loved the classic yet modern aesthetic, and ever since I was given one at the end of middle school (my first new fountain pen), I've found it fits my hand perfectly. No pen I've tried in the 5 years since then (scary thought!) comes close in terms of comfort for both short and long writing sessions. When I realized this recently, that, no, nothing I've tried so far has really satisfied me in the same profound way as the 400, it was a bittersweet moment, filled with conflicting and almost listless feelings: for all these years, I've cared about the pen itself--its construction, age, filling system, etc--and thought of a really interesting nib as a nice perk. But if I've seemingly found the perfect nib holder, where is there to go in that direction? At times I want to get it over with: to sell all my other pens, buy a few 400s and an m405 for good measure and then focus on the nibs. In the course of a minute, my mind has returned to the beauty of others, however--the arco celluloid Omases, the swirly hard rubber Watermans, the artistry in Italian and French overlays, and of course the iconic designs of the 1950s...
I guess my question is, does anyone else have a pen they feel this way about, and if so, do you think it is really due to a great ergonomic fitness for you hand? Also, how do you deal with this realization once you've had it?

[top pen]

For me I used to think for a while the Parker Sonnet was the ultimate pen for me in terms of ergonomics and most other factors. However as things do tastes change and progress I've bought two Diplomat Excellence A's this year in terms of physical dimensions these are really well ergonomically designed which allows you to have a relaxed grip writing is effortless for short periods. I say short periods as the one major caveat is the weight 44g if only the pen was 10g lighter it would be perfection. Maybe I might get used to it however I will just have to weight and see.

I do own a 200 which is the I think is the same size as your 400 I just find it a little too slim and causes it me to grip too tightly.

[mhosea]

I guess not. I like Bexley Poseidon Magnum, Bexley Owner's Club 2012, Montblanc 146, and Sheaffer (Classic-girth) Targa about equally well. Pelikan M800, Sailor 1911L, and Sheaffer 8C are just behind. Targa is the one that sort of "doesn't belong there". I like Targas for some reason that I don't need to understand fully. I like them enough that I'm sort of collecting a small subset of them (sterling silver models and few others that strike my fancy), but as much as I like Targas, I suppose I've never found anything better for writing in my hand than a 1980's Montblanc 146 (better balance with the plastic filler threads).

[Laura N]

I do feel that way, but about more than one pen. I feel that way about the Aurora Optima, the Pelikan M600 and the MB 146/LeGrand: those pens just feel right in my hand, in terms of size and weight, and their nibs fit my writing style. I can write with them forever without even noticing them.

There are other pens I own, and use, and like. But those are my workhorses, and I always have at least one of them inked. In my work it helps to be able to use different color inks to make notes on a draft, or to distinguish between comments from different people, or to denote answers to questions, and such.

How I dealt with that realization was to sell many of my other pens and buy more of those. It was sort of a relief. :)

[Sandy Fry]

A pen is a pen is a pen. I have no affinity for one pen over another. They all do what I need them to do. Put ink on paper.

David

[Kaputnik]

There is a fairly wide range that feels comfortable to me. I like my ultra-thin Montblanc Noblesse (actually have two of them) which is thinner than many ballpoints. The trick is holding it loosely. I'm comfortable with my Pilot Custom Heritage 92, Esterbrook J, SJ, and desk pens, Lamy 2000, and let's just say many others. I'm probably adjusting my grip somewhat without even thinking about it, but as long as I can do that, they're all good.

There is a range of pens that are not comfortable for me, mostly because they are too thick or heavy. The Jinhao 159, for example, apart from any other faults it might have, is both. There are oddities of the grip that make something uncomfortable, like the abrupt and sharp step down to the section on a Pilot Metropolitan. But within the group of pens that I do like, there is a wide variance in size and proportions. My preferences are based more on the nibs, filling systems, ink capacity, and a general lack of quirkiness.

[fountainpenkid]

There is a fairly wide range that feels comfortable to me. I like my ultra-thin Montblanc Noblesse (actually have two of them) which is thinner than many ballpoints. The trick is holding it loosely. I'm comfortable with my Pilot Custom Heritage 92, Esterbrook J, SJ, and desk pens, Lamy 2000, and let's just say many others. I'm probably adjusting my grip somewhat without even thinking about it, but as long as I can do that, they're all good.

There is a range of pens that are not comfortable for me, mostly because they are too thick or heavy. The Jinhao 159, for example, apart from any other faults it might have, is both. There are oddities of the grip that make something uncomfortable, like the abrupt and sharp step down to the section on a Pilot Metropolitan. But within the group of pens that I do like, there is a wide variance in size and proportions. My preferences are based more on the nibs, filling systems, ink capacity, and a general lack of quirkiness.

I've found a loose grip to be similarly helpful, but while I find all of my pens relatively comfortable, they start to tire my hands after a page or so of writing. I think it may be the threads and diameter which make the most difference to me--without threads to orient my hand, it doesn't feel precisely locked in...

[Sailor Kenshin]

In such high and mighty company, I feel almost ashamed to point out how much I love my Hero 616s.

Almost.

[Laura N]

In such high and mighty company, I feel almost ashamed to point out how much I love my Hero 616s.

Almost.

I have more Lamy Safaris and Al-Stars than any other pen, and I'm not ashamed to say that. :)

I just wouldn't call them "ergonomic perfection." :)

[Hawk]

The size, weight, diameter, balance or material of a pen do not bother me. the only thing that bothers me is the construction of certain pens that have a step reduction in diameter above the threads in order to have the cap and barrel have a smooth transition.

[fountainpenkid]

The size, weight, diameter, balance or material of a pen do not bother me. the only thing that bothers me is the construction of certain pens that have a step reduction in diameter above the threads in order to have the cap and barrel have a smooth transition.

What sort of writing do you do? ;)

[inklord]

Fascinating thread - which seems to affirm that ergonomics are very personal. My biggest 'dilemma' in the world of pens for me is, that like you, fountainpenkid, I like small pens like an M400/200 best, and often these smaller models are looked at as less important or entrance level pens by manufacturers. Likewise, my first 'serious' pen was a Pelikan M400, ca 1984. That is for me as well the size of pen I love (and I use it unposted!) Now I own a series of pens that fit my hand similarly, and through the new small manufacturers such as Franklin-Christoph, it is finally easy to get new, small, high-grade pens with amazing nibs, usually labeled as 'pocket pens'. But generally, in the modern pen market, the big cigars mostly outshine their diminutive brethren regarding filling mechanisms, nib selection and sheer charisma. Pelikan is a noted exception.
One positive aspect of liking the 400 so much is that the 400/M400 accepts a host of older 14k and 18k nibs from previous iterations of the M400/old M600... :)

[fountainpenkid]

Fascinating thread - which seems to affirm that ergonomics are very personal. My biggest 'dilemma' in the world of pens for me is, that like you, fountainpenkid, I like small pens like an M400/200 best, and often these smaller models are looked at as less important or entrance level pens by manufacturers. Likewise, my first 'serious' pen was a Pelikan M400, ca 1984. That is for me as well the size of pen I love (and I use it unposted!) Now I own a series of pens that fit my hand similarly, and through the new small manufacturers such as Franklin-Christoph, it is finally easy to get new, small, high-grade pens with amazing nibs, usually labeled as 'pocket pens'. But generally, in the modern pen market, the big cigars mostly outshine their diminutive brethren regarding filling mechanisms, nib selection and sheer charisma. Pelikan is a noted exception.
One positive aspect of liking the 400 so much is that the 400/M400 accepts a host of older 14k and 18k nibs from previous iterations of the M400/old M600... :)

The funny thing is, the 400 must have been normal-sized enough to be released as a flagship pen from a major manufacturer in 1950--I wonder if people held pens differently back then? You've identified a trend that Richard Binder pointed out on his website a while ago: there has been a huge trend towards larger pens, to the extent that people like Stephen Brown consider the TWSBI Eco a "smaller pen." :0
Were people back in that age of thinner and smaller pens really uncomfortable, or is all a difference in technique?

[jar]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

[Hawk]

I don't do any serious or lenghty writing. Even when I wrote a lot (in college) using a ballpoint, the small diameter and the pressing necessary didn't bother me too much. The whole experience in using a fountain pen is different. The pen does much of the work, one only has to give it direction so the physical aspects of the pen (other than the nib) is minor. Being left handed and too lazy to learn how to write with a flex nib, coud change my viewpoint on the matter, since one has to work the pen. I envy those that produce beautiful penmanship.

[Hawk]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

Does that mean that ones genetically engineered hand will have a mind of its own? It has possibilities for left handers, they won't have to learn how to write right handed like in the good old days.

[jar]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

Does that mean that ones genetically engineered hand will have a mind of its own? It has possibilities for left handers, they won't have to learn how to write right handed like in the good old days.

Left handers may possibly still be available but likely only as a special option factory order.

[Hawk]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

Does that mean that ones genetically engineered hand will have a mind of its own? It has possibilities for left handers, they won't have to learn how to write right handed like in the good old days.

Left handers may possibly still be available but likely only as a special option factory order.

Gosh, I hope it won't cost too much more since I wouldn't have enogh money to buy more left handed fountain pens.

[jar]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

Does that mean that ones genetically engineered hand will have a mind of its own? It has possibilities for left handers, they won't have to learn how to write right handed like in the good old days.

Left handers may possibly still be available but likely only as a special option factory order.

Gosh, I hope it won't cost too much more since I wouldn't have enogh money to buy more left handed fountain pens.

Not to worry; it will be your parents who have to pay to order a standard or factory special left handed option child.

[Hawk]

Once we have genetically engineered the standard hand it will be possible to build ergonomically perfect fountain pens.

Does that mean that ones genetically engineered hand will have a mind of its own? It has possibilities for left handers, they won't have to learn how to write right handed like in the good old days.

Left handers may possibly still be available but likely only as a special option factory order.

Gosh, I hope it won't cost too much more since I wouldn't have enogh money to buy more left handed fountain pens.

Not to worry; it will be your parents who have to pay to order a standard or factory special left handed option child.

I guess I misunderstood you. So it isn't an optional bolt device that I could have to correct my obvious deficiency. Sigh....

[inklord]

I hate to say this, but there seems some phallic symbolism rampant in the pen world now ;)

Joke aside, while men's hands have grown larger in the western world over the course of the of the 20th century (just look at the handles of some pre-WWII hunting knives - they barely fit my smallish hands!), some modern pens are simply ridiculous in size - befitting their role as luxurious status-scepters rather than actual daily writers. At least in Germany, pens of MB149 size used to be 'signature pens' used for rather auspicious occasions only - by 'important' people. Note also: the smaller MB146 is LeGrand (the big one).
Pelikan had no M800 or M1000 size pens prior to 1989 simply because Pelikans were daily writers, and the M400 was regarded as convenient, shirt pocketable and of adequate length and girth. After all, people also used pencils and ball-point pens, and most of those were even more slender than a M400. One of my favorite pens, the Lamy 2000, was considered "girthy" back in 1984 when I got my Peli... but with its tapered section, you can somewhat choose the girth most to your liking.
I also wonder if most pen users today still write page after page after page, as many used to do when writing drafts or letters. Large, heavy pens quickly get tiresome during those tasks...

[mhosea]

I hate to say this, but there seems some phallic symbolism rampant in the pen world now ;)


You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)

[inklord]

I hate to say this, but there seems some phallic symbolism rampant in the pen world now ;)


You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)
Oh no, it's just that this accusation has been leveled at anything oblong by now...

[fountainpenkid]

Inklord points out that the size of male hands has increased in the last 100 years, and after some brief searching, it seems that is true. But I think the size-satisfaction spectrum has an at least partly cultural basis: if it could simply be explained in purely physical ergonomic terms, the differential in size preference would be smaller and the phenomenon less widespread.

[mhosea]

I don't know everyone else's mind, but I think I know my own mind in the matter. If I don't know why I tend to like pens with grip sections that are about 0.41" to 0.45", you'll have to forgive me. I'm quite sure it has exactly nothing to do with culture or psychological predilections, and if you knew me well, you'd be just as certain. I could have sworn that it just fit my obstinate and ill-advised 4-point grip better. Now, it could be that I'm the odd man out, the only man in the world that likes this grip size for non-cultural and non-Freudian reasons, but I kind of doubt it. Pilot G2s and the Bic "Grip" are about that as well, and I don't suppose it's too common to consider these products somehow enlarged due to cultural bias or some such. Even when I was kid they sold those rubber sleeves that you could put on pencils and bic pens to enlarge the grip. Perhaps there's some psychology involved in buying a MB149 instead of a MB146 in most cases, but my guess is that this sort of thing is more the exception than the rule. My guess is that people tend to come by their preferences for larger pens, to the extent that they have them, as honestly as may be.

[jar]

A wide section can hide many design shortcomings but even very narrow sections can be made comfortable for extended use. To do so though requires additional thought and effort.

Montblanc certainly was aware of that and back when they sold fountain pens simply as utility tools they addressed that issue. The sections on the smaller 146, 144 & 142 (and even the 2nd. tier models) were concave in form which helped position fingers in a way that allowed a very light non-stressing hand position.

But when you move to slimmer sections all the other ergonomic considerations are magnified in importance; balance point, nib sweet spot, overall weight, body shape and contact points with the web of the hand, material and texture of the section, all become critical considerations.

One of my most comfortable pens when used during an extended writing session, my Caran d'Ache Metwood (rosewood) Varius, also has one of the slimmest sections.

[inklord]

Montblanc certainly was aware of that and back when they sold fountain pens simply as utility tools they addressed that issue. The sections on the smaller 146, 144 & 142 (and even the 2nd. tier models) were concave in form which helped position fingers in a way that allowed a very light non-stressing hand position.


Indeed - the concave sections on my F/C model 20 'Marietta' and pocket 66 feel extremely comfortable on these lightweight, mid-size to small pens...

[fountainpenkid]

I don't know everyone else's mind, but I think I know my own mind in the matter. If I don't know why I tend to like pens with grip sections that are about 0.41" to 0.45", you'll have to forgive me. I'm quite sure it has exactly nothing to do with culture or psychological predilections, and if you knew me well, you'd be just as certain. I could have sworn that it just fit my obstinate and ill-advised 4-point grip better. Now, it could be that I'm the odd man out, the only man in the world that likes this grip size for non-cultural and non-Freudian reasons, but I kind of doubt it. Pilot G2s and the Bic "Grip" are about that as well, and I don't suppose it's too common to consider these products somehow enlarged due to cultural bias or some such. Even when I was kid they sold those rubber sleeves that you could put on pencils and bic pens to enlarge the grip. Perhaps there's some psychology involved in buying a MB149 instead of a MB146 in most cases, but my guess is that this sort of thing is more the exception than the rule. My guess is that people tend to come by their preferences for larger pens, to the extent that they have them, as honestly as may be.
Culture includes writing technique, at least from an anthropological perspective.

[mhosea]

Culture includes writing technique, at least from an anthropological perspective.

For sure. For example, Sailor makes some nibs that vary line width with the pen's angle of attack. I expect this seems like a plausible feature to a Japanese writer, but it doesn't make very much sense with respect to penmanship writing English in cursive with whole hand movement. But if people prefer larger pens because of their writing technique, isn't that about as purely practical in nature as could be conceived?

That said, I think I'd still as likely run counter to culture as with it in the matter. My earliest writing teachers probably would have tried to correct my 4-point grip a decade earlier, but it is done. I can write with a tripod grip, but I don't want to, and because for the most part I write mathematics, which is much more "random access" than writing prose, whole-hand writing requires slowing down. So I write how I write, which is maybe not how many people around me write.

But now that we're not teaching penmanship, or even cursive writing, kids are being left to their own devices. And for the rest of us, there's the issue of arthritis, perhaps. If you want to look at a factor that pushes people towards larger pens, we might consider Jar's comment, with which I agree:


But when you move to slimmer sections all the other ergonomic considerations are magnified in importance; balance point, nib sweet spot, overall weight, body shape and contact points with the web of the hand, material and texture of the section, all become critical considerations.

The same sensitivity to design effected by a narrow grip also magnifies the relative effects of differences in writing technique. If a larger pen tends to damp rather than magnifies the effects of varied writing techniques, then couldn't that propel a trend towards larger pens in general...to a point, anyway?

[fountainpenkid]

For sure. For example, Sailor makes some nibs that vary line width with the pen's angle of attack. I expect this seems like a plausible feature to a Japanese writer, but it doesn't make very much sense with respect to penmanship writing English in cursive with whole hand movement. But if people prefer larger pens because of their writing technique, isn't that about as purely practical in nature as could be conceived?

That said, I think I'd still as likely run counter to culture as with it in the matter. My earliest writing teachers probably would have tried to correct my 4-point grip a decade earlier, but it is done. I can write with a tripod grip, but I don't want to, and because for the most part I write mathematics, which is much more "random access" than writing prose, whole-hand writing requires slowing down. So I write how I write, which is maybe not how many people around me write.

But now that we're not teaching penmanship, or even cursive writing, kids are being left to their own devices. And for the rest of us, there's the issue of arthritis, perhaps. If you want to look at a factor that pushes people towards larger pens, we might consider Jar's comment, with which I agree:


But when you move to slimmer sections all the other ergonomic considerations are magnified in importance; balance point, nib sweet spot, overall weight, body shape and contact points with the web of the hand, material and texture of the section, all become critical considerations.

The same sensitivity to design effected by a narrow grip also magnifies the relative effects of differences in writing technique. If a larger pen tends to damp rather than magnifies the effects of varied writing techniques, then couldn't that propel a trend towards larger pens in general...to a point, anyway?

Fascinating thoughts. I think the question then becomes this: if one's technique is compatible with the smaller-sectioned pens of yore, is a smaller pen actually better to use?--could we conceive of this era of big pens not just as symptomatic of the degradation in technical training (or upkeep of such training) over the years, but as something that should be changed?

[mhosea]

Fascinating thoughts. I think the question then becomes this: if one's technique is compatible with the smaller-sectioned pens of yore, is a smaller pen actually better to use?--could we conceive of this era of big pens not just as symptomatic of the degradation in technical training (or upkeep of such training) over the years, but as something that should be changed?


Fountain pens came in all sizes until around 1950 or so when things started to slim up noticeably, so let's not assume everybody previously used fountain pens with small sections. And consider that some of those oblique holders are rather girthy. Of course if we take it all the way back to quills, I guess "thin was really in" back then! :) But the point is that I'm not sure what you mean by "this era of big pens". It seems to me that pens today mostly reflect the range of sizes that were popular in, say, the 1930s (Montblanc 149 and Delta Dolce Vita oversize and the like notwithstanding). My Sheaffer 8C and oversize Balance pens have grips that range from 0.41" to 0.46". Montblanc LeGrand is about 0.43" to 0.45". I don't think the existence of the 149 and oversize Dolce Vita today represent "this era" just by existing and the fact that some people might like writing with them, and the Jinhao 159's have heavily tapered sections and so don't have effectively as large of grips as you might think. So I think the "larger" grip sizes that are commonly liked are more in the 0.4" to 0.45" range, give or take.

I'm no expert in these matters, but I'll give my own answers to the two questions you pose. I say "no" and "no". Larger grips help people break old habits and relax. After that, it's what you choose. Smaller grips are not "better" in any sense that should override ones natural preferences. If training were improved, I think you'd simply see the range of grips people feel are comfortable expand, and big pens would still be popular.

[KKay]

Well, I've only got two pens. So, it is not a hard decision for me. The Edison Collier is more ergonomic. I don't know if it is perfection, because I have very little experience in fountain pens. I thought a wider pen would cause less finger & hand strain. I find it comfortable to use. :clap2:

[welch]

Fascinating thread - which seems to affirm that ergonomics are very personal. My biggest 'dilemma' in the world of pens for me is, that like you, fountainpenkid, I like small pens like an M400/200 best, and often these smaller models are looked at as less important or entrance level pens by manufacturers. Likewise, my first 'serious' pen was a Pelikan M400, ca 1984. That is for me as well the size of pen I love (and I use it unposted!) Now I own a series of pens that fit my hand similarly, and through the new small manufacturers such as Franklin-Christoph, it is finally easy to get new, small, high-grade pens with amazing nibs, usually labeled as 'pocket pens'. But generally, in the modern pen market, the big cigars mostly outshine their diminutive brethren regarding filling mechanisms, nib selection and sheer charisma. Pelikan is a noted exception.
One positive aspect of liking the 400 so much is that the 400/M400 accepts a host of older 14k and 18k nibs from previous iterations of the M400/old M600... :)

The funny thing is, the 400 must have been normal-sized enough to be released as a flagship pen from a major manufacturer in 1950--I wonder if people held pens differently back then? You've identified a trend that Richard Binder pointed out on his website a while ago: there has been a huge trend towards larger pens, to the extent that people like Stephen Brown consider the TWSBI Eco a "smaller pen." :0
Were people back in that age of thinner and smaller pens really uncomfortable, or is all a difference in technique?

The 400 is about the same size as an Esterbrook J...a shade over five inches...maybe 5 1/8 inches capped. That was a normal-sized pen. Many of the pens from the 1930s were about 4 3/4 inches...capped. The "basic" Vacumatic is about 5 1/8th inches capped and about 5 3/4 inches posted. It feels thinner than a P-51. (Parker made some longer and some thicker Vacumatics. I don't know the sales figures for each style, so I'm guessing that the shorter thinner Vac was the big seller; others were luxury versions.) Both the Parker 51 and Waterman Carene are about six inches long when posted. A Parker 75 is about 5 1/2 inches when posted. Parker marketed the 75 as a high-end "gift pen" for about 30 years...through the '60's, '70's, and '80s, when most pen companies died. Parker must have known they had a market.

In the '80s and early '90s, my company gave Cross ballpoint and pencil sets -- with the company logo -- as awards and as gifts to customers. They are short and slender, but heavier than a typical Papermate ballpoint of the time. Then business executives all wanted to carry a Mont Blanc ballpoint...part of the uniform, just like a dark blue suit with power-tie and wing-tip shoes, plus a copy of the Financial Times (carefully folded) in a boxy leather brief-case. Our company switched to the early Cross Townsends for customers.

My hunch: people have been sold on heavier and maybe longer fountain pens. When posted, the MB 146 is about 6 1/4 inches. The Sheaffer Legacy-Heritage (looks like a PFM) is about six inches, but it's much heavier than a P-51. The Parker Ellipse is a little under six inches long...maybe 5 3/4 inches...both capped and posted. The Ellipse is very heavy...a nice pen even though it sold poorly (according to Tony Fischier's Parker Penography site).

[fountainpenkid]

Fascinating thread - which seems to affirm that ergonomics are very personal. My biggest 'dilemma' in the world of pens for me is, that like you, fountainpenkid, I like small pens like an M400/200 best, and often these smaller models are looked at as less important or entrance level pens by manufacturers. Likewise, my first 'serious' pen was a Pelikan M400, ca 1984. That is for me as well the size of pen I love (and I use it unposted!) Now I own a series of pens that fit my hand similarly, and through the new small manufacturers such as Franklin-Christoph, it is finally easy to get new, small, high-grade pens with amazing nibs, usually labeled as 'pocket pens'. But generally, in the modern pen market, the big cigars mostly outshine their diminutive brethren regarding filling mechanisms, nib selection and sheer charisma. Pelikan is a noted exception.
One positive aspect of liking the 400 so much is that the 400/M400 accepts a host of older 14k and 18k nibs from previous iterations of the M400/old M600... :)

The funny thing is, the 400 must have been normal-sized enough to be released as a flagship pen from a major manufacturer in 1950--I wonder if people held pens differently back then? You've identified a trend that Richard Binder pointed out on his website a while ago: there has been a huge trend towards larger pens, to the extent that people like Stephen Brown consider the TWSBI Eco a "smaller pen." :0
Were people back in that age of thinner and smaller pens really uncomfortable, or is all a difference in technique?

The 400 is about the same size as an Esterbrook J...a shade over five inches...maybe 5 1/8 inches capped. That was a normal-sized pen. Many of the pens from the 1930s were about 4 3/4 inches...capped. The "basic" Vacumatic is about 5 1/8th inches capped and about 5 3/4 inches posted. It feels thinner than a P-51. (Parker made some longer and some thicker Vacumatics. I don't know the sales figures for each style, so I'm guessing that the shorter thinner Vac was the big seller; others were luxury versions.) Both the Parker 51 and Waterman Carene are about six inches long when posted. A Parker 75 is about 5 1/2 inches when posted. Parker marketed the 75 as a high-end "gift pen" for about 30 years...through the '60's, '70's, and '80s, when most pen companies died. Parker must have known they had a market.

In the '80s and early '90s, my company gave Cross ballpoint and pencil sets -- with the company logo -- as awards and as gifts to customers. They are short and slender, but heavier than a typical Papermate ballpoint of the time. Then business executives all wanted to carry a Mont Blanc ballpoint...part of the uniform, just like a dark blue suit with power-tie and wing-tip shoes, plus a copy of the Financial Times (carefully folded) in a boxy leather brief-case. Our company switched to the early Cross Townsends for customers.

My hunch: people have been sold on heavier and maybe longer fountain pens. When posted, the MB 146 is about 6 1/4 inches. The Sheaffer Legacy-Heritage (looks like a PFM) is about six inches, but it's much heavier than a P-51. The Parker Ellipse is a little under six inches long...maybe 5 3/4 inches...both capped and posted. The Ellipse is very heavy...a nice pen even though it sold poorly (according to Tony Fischier's Parker Penography site).

I think this discussion may call for a survey...

[fountainpenkid]

A quick update...
Caught up in overwhelming delirium of finals week, I have begun to follow through with my ergonomic-prioritizing plan, deciding to go about making a minimalist collection of pens that meet the full spectrum of my 'needs' and, importantly, that I won't feel inclined to sell. Here's what I aim to have going into the next semester:

Daily Users:
(Pelikan 400 black stripe)
(Pelikan 400 green striated)
Pelikan 400 tortoise
All with practical, M-XF nibs

Go anywhere pens:
TWSBI Vac Mini (F nib)
(Parker "51" aerometric)

'Special' pen:
Waterman's 14s saftey (semi-flexible stub medium)

Parentheses denote what needs to be bought.
What's the secret? I've realized that I don't actually have that many 'needs'...having 5 or 6 daily users is fun, but really quite distracting and cumbersome. Having three allows me to take color-coded notes, and that's the end of practicality for me. The go anywhere category only has a purpose because the pen I happen to find most comfortable (the Pelikan 400) isn't superbly resistant to temperature changes and drops (otherwise, 3 Parker "51"s would do the trick). The last category is the least justified, and in fact, were it not that I already have this pen that is 'special' to me, it wouldn't be there.

Has anyone else tried this?

[mhosea]

Has anyone else tried this?

Not exactly, but I've used ergonomics as a principal driver in deciding what to sell these days. I'm trying to limit myself to the first or second tier for me, ergonomically, except in a few, varied cases where, if the selling price were equal to my projected net proceeds, I'd be tempted to buy the pen back! :) However, I have way too many different-looking pens of the same model, collections with essentially (or exactly) the same ergonomics, to lay claim by any sort of semantic gymnastics, to the qualifier "minimalist".

[top pen]

A quick update...
Caught up in overwhelming delirium of finals week, I went ahead and went through with my ergonomic-prioritizing plan, deciding to go about making a minimalist collection of pens that meet the full spectrum of my 'needs' and, importantly, that I won't feel inclined to sell. Here's what I aim to have going into next semester:

Daily Users:
(Pelikan 400 black stripe)
(Pelikan 400 green striated)
Pelikan 400 tortoise
All with practical, M-XF nibs

Go anywhere pens:
TWSBI Vac Mini (F nib)
(Parker "51" aerometric)

'Special' pen:
Waterman's 14s saftey (semi-flexible stub medium)

Parentheses denote what needs to be bought.

Has anyone else tried this?

I kind of have but to a far less impressive degree my key 6 or 7 pens are ergonomically sound

Most often used 3 pens
Parker Sonnet Dark Grey GT 18k nib
Pelikan M200 GT
Diplomat Excellence A Carya

Every day Beaters
3 x Parker Frontiers

'Special pen that I have yet to ink (in some ways I think it won't seem as special when I eventually do ink it)
Diplomat Excellence A Marrakech GT 14ct nib

Unless something really special comes along there's not going to be much movement.

[inklord]

Like the fountainpenkid, rather than adding more unknowns, I have multiples of the proven users (L2k, Peli M400, F-C p66) and only will probably only add something new if I can handle it first. After all, it's about putting ink on paper in an enjoyable fashion...

[Laura N]

"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, / Or what's a heaven for?"

[rhytre]

After much measuring, weighing, calculating and squinting earnestly, I decided that the ideal pen for me, ergonomically, was a Jinhao 450--balance and grip perfect. Having wasted several hours at that, I now admit that my favorite pen to hold and write with is a fat vintage red striated Traveler built like a petite corona cigar. I put a stub nib on the 450 and use it for signing angry letters. Freud was wrong, a pen is never just a pen.

[pajaro]

I am left handed and my hands are small. I am an over-writer, and so ergonomics have not concerned me as far as writing goes. I do find that the Parker 51 fits my hand readily and is the easiest for me to write with.