Dangerous topic: best flex pens period

[SeminarianMike]

So looking through Google and wanting to have a solid flex pen in my newbie collection I just don't have much direction. A priest friend of mine has a waterman 52 pink nib he says that is the best, but I don't have 750$ to spend. Here's my situation. I received a 200$ eBay gift card for Christmas and I bought a couple Claire fountains notebooks for school and 2 noodlers Ahabs so far leaving Aprox 150 left. Could I get good vintage flex with 150? If so what are my best options, should I attempt to save up? There is a nice gentlemen on here offering me a vintage pen with a semi flex nib for 80! I just don't know what I should do... This is turning into an obsession but boy these pens sure give my reflections and future homilies allot more character [emoji56][emoji56][emoji56][emoji56]

[penwash]

Mike, if you haven't, read the definitions of flex variations by Mauricio, here's the link:
http://www.vintagepen.net/grading-flex-nibs.html

Although you may not end up grading flex pens the same way he did, but his grading method makes sense and provides a base for making purchase decisions.

At the moment, I can say that I have only *one* pen that has all the right characteristics to be called "wet-noodle."
Interestingly, it's not a Waterman or Mabie Todd or Wahl-Eversharp, it is an old slim, black, eye-dropper with "Perfection" engraved on the barrel, which is a moot point anyway because it has a Warranted 14K nib, which is usually a replacement nib. The nib is crooked and it has the wrong feed that works but it looks like someone wearing shoes that are 3-sizes too big for their feet.

(My grand plan for this pen is to save money, then in the next Pen Show I'll give it to a nibmeister to straighten the nib and then find a proper feed for it).

But it writes from XF (0.2mm) and I can flex that thing to BBB (1.8mm) without a lot of pressure and it would Snap-back to XF in the next connected stroke (talk about "responsiveness").

Now, here's another aspect, do we all have to strive for a wet-noodle?
I don't think so, at the moment I may not be skilled enough to write with an extreme wet-noodle, so the best flex pen for me would be a super-flex and lower-end wet-noodle. It may take me years of practice before I am "worthy" to wield an extreme wet-noodle.

Hopefully I don't murk the water even more, but I have put a lot of thought into this.

[jar]

It's very unlikely you will be able to find a pen with any flex on Amazon or eBay or from any modern maker. If you have never really used flex nibs then I strongly recommend starting with dip pens, they are cheap and far superior to what is generally available today.

Second, do not believe any YouTube video or 99% of the "flex pen" claims. They are almost all examples of fountain pen nib abuse.

Wait for the Philly show.

Go.

Find Susan Wirth.

Sit at her feet.

Look for Mauricio Aguilar.

Sit at his feet.

Report back to us.

[Jon Szanto]

Wisdom pours forth from a Jar.

[tandaina]

Honestly: it depends.

There was never (in my experience) one pen produced that always had the flexiest nibs. Because flex is really dependent on the metallurgy that produces the nib and even small variations in the properties of a nib can have a big impact on flex. Mauricio's grading scale is very useful. But know that while there are nibs that *tend* to be more or less flexi (in antique pens) there is variety among them. A 100 year old Waterman No. 2 nib is often very flexible, but some of them aren't. Even in the flexible group some are super soft, some a bit less so.

I have two wet noodle nibs. One is a gold Waterman no 2 nib in a beaten up BHR body (so warn there's no number on the end anymore) and the other is a German *steel* nib produced during WWII. Based on Mauricio's scale it's every bit as wet noodle as my Waterman (and the pen it's in is so much nicer to use that I chose it ever time.)

I've got another Waterman, a music nib, that's flexible, but not wet noodle. Probably the same age, just not *quite* as flexible. I've had any number of pens in and out of my collection with flexible nibs of one sort or another. I used to just buy any Waterman of a certain age that came up on eBay and if the nib wasn't as flexible as I liked I sold it on. I found semi-flex, flexible, and some nails that way.

In general 14k nibs made before 1950 *tend* to be where the most flexible nibs are found. There are exceptions to this rule (some older steel nibs are amazing). But *in general* that has been my finding.

[Lady Onogaro]

Mike,

You might want to read Laurie's posts on his experience with dip pens, or message him privately about it. He has some words of wisdom for you. Jon Szanto steered Laurie in that direction, and Laurie has mentioned a number of times how much he has enjoyed dip pens.

I have two pens that have something of a flex nib (an Eversharp Symphony and a Parker Slimfold), but I don't use them often because I tend to write too fast for them. As Mauricio will tell you, with flex nibs, slow writing is required to get the most out of them.

I have had a lot of fun with dip pen nibs, though. They are so very inexpensive, and they provide all the flex I could possibly want without spending a lot of money on them (I particularly like Brause's Blue Pumpkin nib). JetPens has a number of guides for dip pens, if you want to go that route.

Pay attention to Jar's comments about going to a pen show and talking to Susan Wirth.

[KBeezie]

...
In general 14k nibs made before 1950 *tend* to be where the most flexible nibs are found. There are exceptions to this rule (some older steel nibs are amazing). But *in general* that has been my finding.

More likely if you change the date to about 1920~1930. Many of the popular choices of the 40s/50s are pretty firm with a 'few' specific exceptions.

[tandaina]

...
In general 14k nibs made before 1950 *tend* to be where the most flexible nibs are found. There are exceptions to this rule (some older steel nibs are amazing). But *in general* that has been my finding.

More likely if you change the date to about 1920~1930. Many of the popular choices of the 40s/50s are pretty firm with a 'few' specific exceptions.

I'm just giving a general range that makes it clear that modern pens? Not flex. ;)

Honestly my most flexible writer is from the 1940s. And I actually prefer pre-1920s Waterman's for flex but that maybe is more about my preference for BHR eyedroppers than anything else. (I generally loath lever fillers that filled the 20s and 30s). Even in the 20s and 30s there were many, many pens that had absolute nail nibs, no flex at all. I want to be clear that flex production mostly stopped in the 1940s. Before then nibs from nail hard to full flex could be had pretty easily from a number of manufacturers. After that (in my opinion) real flex ceased to be produced and we got at best semi-flex and soft nibs. Today all the nibs we have are at best soft, they are *not* flex in the way the pre-1950s nibs are. The metallurgy is different, the actual properties of the metal are different.

And I really don't think there is such a thing as one "best" flex pen. The nibs varied too much within production lines.

[KBeezie]

Honestly my most flexible writer is from the 1940s.

Hence the note about specific exceptions. One doesn't make it true of the whole. And I've had a few nice flexes from a 40s era pen such as a modern stripe eversharp skyline, which is in contrast to the 95% of other skylines I have had that were rigid nails or Sheaffer touchdowns from the late 40s, or 40s era tuckaways. In other words if you were to randomly grab one of the more common models from those eras you'll find they're usually pretty firm, varying by geographic regions or target markets (ie: who the pen was intended to be used by).

But yes, your original point was true, that modern wise, outside of something prohibitively expensive and custom-made/ground there are no modern flex fountain pens that come close to what the vintage makers produced. The Decoband by Wahl/Eversharp with a "Superflex" nib is the only modern one produced right now that I hear is supposed to be truly like a vintage semi-flex.

And best is going to vary by personal preference when feel and springiness comes into play, not just line variation range.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Funny, I heard that the modern Decoband railroads under pressure just as easily as the Japanese FA nib supposedly does.

To the OP.

If you want to see what true flex is like, get some dip pens and have a go. It will only cost a few dollars.

If you want to move on a bit and not carry that pesky ink bottle with you, get a Desiderata Daedalus. It's a dip pen/fountain pen hybrid. Goes for about $65.


Beyond that, if you want very flexible nibs the options are quite limited. There's gambling on eBay - with all the attendant warnings that entails - or there is stumping up the absurd amounts that pretty much ALL vintage flexible pen dealers charge. Or you can go to a show and at least try before making a decision.

If you are totally new to flexible nibs I would suggest that dropping $750 on a pen could turn out to be a very expensive mistake. These things are very easy to damage.

BTW, very flexible Waterman 52s can apparently still be had for anything between $100 and up (not that I've been lucky enough to gt one but others claim they have). There has also been a noticeable trend on eBay lately of sellers adding the word 'flex' to their descriptions as a marketing strategy. This is now happening often enough for me to sit up and take notice. It is not a good sign.

[KBeezie]

If you want to see what true flex is like, get some dip pens and have a go. It will only cost a few dollars.

If you want to move on a bit and not carry that pesky ink bottle with you, get a Desiderata Daedalus. It's a dip pen/fountain pen hybrid. Goes for about $65.


I hear the Zebra-G nibs are actually pretty firm compared to the dip nibs known for flex, and seems like Gillott 303 would be better, though I've not tried it myself. Also a couple of my vintages have much less resistance than the Zebra-G nibs (steel version, not the titanium) I have.

A vintage Esterbrook 357 dip nib was another I saw that looked like a good contender.

If you do go seeking popular recommendations like a Waterman 52 (or 54, 14, or 12 for that matter), make sure you get a write sample from the seller, not all the nibs were made identical to one another.

[SeminarianMike]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

[KBeezie]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

One thing to keep in mind with the Desiderata (or using a Noodler's Ahab or Jinhao X450/X750 fitted with a Zebra-G in the same way), is to know the Zebra-G steel nibs are not stainless and will have to be replaced after about 3 to 6 months depending on ink used, as they do corrode rather quickly compared to stainless steel nibs (and the Zebra-G nibs will get scratchier and scratchier at the point before major corrosion sets in).

A 10-pack box of Zebra-G nibs cost about $13 from JetPens or JStationery, it's probably worthwhile going that route along with a $2 nib holder first to play with before investing into it more if you don't like that kind of nib.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The Gillott 303 (or others like the Leonardt Principal) are not recommend for people brand new to dip nibs. They are very flexible but also very sharp. Doesn't mean you cannot have a go with them, only that it may be initially frustrating.

My personal favourite is the vintage Gillott 404, very smooth and very flexible.


The other obvious point (haha!) is that springing a dip nib is only going to cost $2. Springing a vintage noodle is going to cost hundreds of dollars in all likelihood.



Disclaimer: none of my opinions are applicable to those whose funds allow them to view vintage noodle FPs as disposable.

[Scrawler]

I have put variety of dip nibs into fountain pens for fun. I regularly use a Wearever equipped with an Imperial 101, which is absolutely a wet noodle. But it did involve grinding feeds. While fun for doodling and artistic writing, I find these pens tedious for letter writing. The sharp untipped point of dip nibs digs in on careless upstrokes, splattering droplets over the page. For expressive writing of the more regular sort, such as letters and journal a good tipped flexible nib from the 1920-1940 period cannot be beat. Ordinary daily use pens like the Parker Televisor (1937) or Waterman #3 (1932) have the most marvelous well behaved flex nibs and occasionally appear on the market. The #3 tends to be a bit more noodly than the Parker.

[Scrawler]

The Gillott 303 (or others like the Leonardt Principal) are not recommend for people brand new to dip nibs. They are very flexible but also very sharp. Doesn't mean you cannot have a go with them, only that it may be initially frustrating.

<snip>
Springing a vintage noodle is going to cost hundreds of dollars in all likelihood.



If a recent auction is anything to go $420 for a Waterman #7 Pink. I had a bit of trouble getting my head around it. My max bid was $50. I should have known better than to have tried.

[tandaina]

But yes, your original point was true, that modern wise, outside of something prohibitively expensive and custom-made/ground there are no modern flex fountain pens that come close to what the vintage makers produced. The Decoband by Wahl/Eversharp with a "Superflex" nib is the only modern one produced right now that I hear is supposed to be truly like a vintage semi-flex.

I'd go further and say that *no* modern pens are flex pens. Modern nib modifications are all about reducing the size of the nib (cutout shoulders) or its thickness (Spencerian mod). But none of those things changes the actual metallurgical properties of the pen. I suspect that those modified nibs will not still be flexing in 100 years they way my oldest flex nib is. Because the actual way the metal is laid down isn't meant to flex and spring back and so my guess (not yet proved) is that those pens will spring far sooner and more easily. Because it isn't just hte thickness of the nib, or its shape that makes it *truly* flexible. It's the way it's actually forged.

[SeminarianMike]

I have def learned that modern nibs aren't full flex just semi flex, and I guess with these higher end modern flex pens hitting the market. It is the feed that isn't right? I have been told in vintage pens the material used in the feed was almost like a sponge, very absorbent which allowed good flow with much flex [emoji848] am I being informed correctly ?

[Laurie]

As said in previous posts I too was interested in flexy nibs and put a similar post on this forum. The Wahl Eversharp Skyline was recommended by many and I found one for sale at a good price. It is one of my favourites. But I was warned not to be too heavy as you can crack the feed etc and even spring the nib on these old pens. But without much pressure I can get some good line variation. That experience with flex ignited looking further and Jon Szanto gave me the best advice I have ever been given and suggested I explore the world of dip nibs. I have been doing that for 12 months and I am presently learning engrosser's script. I probably have over 100 various dip nibs. You can purchase them on Ebay from many sellers. For beginners the Zebra and Nikko nibs are great nibs and give good flex. However engrossers script needs fine upward hairlines and nice juicy downstrokes so I began experimenting. As David has said the Gillott 303 and 404 are beautiful nibs. I have many personal favourites and some at in the photo below. I have just retried my Leonard Principal which is also below. It is so lovely that I have fallen love with it again.

I catalogue my collection of nibs and give them a score out of 10. However I have found that some of these nibs get better with more use. I keep them in a fishing tackle box and they are all in vials with dessicant and cotton wool. So you can see how much I love them. There are many very expensive nibs like the Musselman Perfection which a seller gave to me in appreciation of my custom. It sells for about $60AUD and it is probably the most revered dip nib in the world (deservedly so) But many of my favourites only cost a few dollars as Lady Ongaro said. There are plenty of web sites like IAMPATH which have articles and recommendations on nibs.

As for nib holders I started with a cheap and simple straight holder (actually made from a piece of bamboo) again you can buy these things on Ebay. Eventually I found a youtube clip by Yoke Pen Company where he shows you how to make your own slanted dip nib holders. Again it is not expense. Just need a bit of thin brass and a special bailing pliers. I buy a cheap Mont Mart paint brush set and cut the brush part off and use the handle. It is so easy and I probably have about 30 of them. You can buy very special hand made beauties and David has a few beautiful holders which you can see in some of his posts (Empty of Clouds). I recommend the angled pen holder as it just makes the nibs work that much easier.

So that is my experience and I highly recommend that you go down that path if you are really interested in flex. As I said I have a Skyline which I love but after my dip nib experience I would never go out and look just for a flexy fountain pen nib for the sole purpose of experiencing flex. Dip nibs and pens are another part of this pen and handwriting experience. BTW after I get proficient at Engrossers Script I intend to learn Italic ( I think David is doing that at the moment)

The first picture shows the beautiful flex of the Leonard Principal and the other photo is of various other pens and nibs in my collection. I had to also include the finger nib which caused a bit of fun when posted earlier.

225802258122582

[Lady Onogaro]

Thank you for sharing, Laurie. :)

[KBeezie]

...
I have been told in vintage pens the material used in the feed was almost like a sponge, very absorbent which allowed good flow with much flex [emoji848] am I being informed correctly ?

Not that I'm aware of in terms of 'consistency' like a sponge, a lot of the older feeds are made of hard rubber (ebonite), and they can take about a day to fully saturate depending on the pen to really get the flow going good.

Two of the nice things about ebonite feeds is they can be carved to suit a purpose (though more practical to do with modern ebonite like with Noodler's needing the channel carved deeper or wider for more artistic level of flow), but also can be heat set to the nib when re-seated to help improve flow, something that cannot be done with plastic.

You can heat set a vintage nib and feed, but I would not attempt to 'carve' up a vintage ebonite feed since it's not like you can just put back on the carved off shavings.

[KBeezie]

The first picture shows the beautiful flex of the Leonard Principal and the other photo is of various other pens and nibs in my collection. I had to also include the finger nib which caused a bit of fun when posted earlier.

22580

The first picture looks about the same as the #3 adjustable I have on my early 30s Eversharp Doric if it requires just a light touch to flex.

I don't have a calligrapher's hand (not by a long shot), but the Doric is shown here in MB Irish Green. http://i.imgur.com/NcnJ6SK.jpg

[Sailor Kenshin]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]


I understand the appeal of flex nibs, but they're tricky to master.

I do have an Ahab, and one of the earlier Noodler's 'flex' pens. They require too much pressure...at least for me...to be considered real flex. I own one real flex pen, found by accident in a ten-dollar box at a pen show. Gold nib. Eyedropper body. From the look of the feed, it's a Frankenpen.

If there are thrift or antique stores near you, you might want to give them a shot. It's a gamble, but you might get lucky and find a vintage flex.

[penwash]

So tonight I was tinkering with a box of dip nibs that I got just before Christmas

(I wasn't going after the dip nibs, rather an Osmiroid 75 which I'm still in the process to restore it, but the nibs came with the package)

Thinking about this thread, I tried to fit the flexible dip nibs onto a fountain pen body. After several unsuccessful attempt using a Wearever, I dropped the idea for now, then I flush the FPR Indus that is running out of ink. As I flush the pen, since I have the nib and feed out anyways, an idea came:

I fit the a dip nib Gillot 404 on the Indus feed and surprisingly, it fits quite well, and the feed kept up.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5736/23627069199_123ed9c2d3_z.jpg

[katherine]

Hop on Amazon, get a pack of 10 Zebra Gs for $9, stick one in the Ahab. I did it a couple days ago -- it works great. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to do it, but the tldr is you pull the nib + feed out, positioning the Zebra G nib such that the little cut thingy on the side lines up with the first or second notch on the feed, jam it back in and heat set it (See Goulet's video on how to do this with hot water). It's super easy. It took me about ten minutes after my Zebra Gs showed up in the mail.

Downsides: 1. (this doesn't seem to be universal, but is happening in my case) The nib touches the cap -- so ink gets on the inside of the cap. Doesn't seem to be too much of a problem, but that probably eliminates it from being an EDC. People have mentioned they don't have this problem with the Konrad. 2. Dip nibs aren't designed for this kindof constant contact with ink -- they'll corrode pretty fast. Some people say 1-2 weeks, some people say 6-8 months. I'm not sure. (Mine is filled with Diamine Evergreen, and I can see the ink around the nib changing color, so SOMETHING is happening)

[KBeezie]

At least with the Ahab's ebonite feed you can heat set it if you must.

[penwash]

Hop on Amazon, get a pack of 10 Zebra Gs for $9, stick one in the Ahab. I did it a couple days ago -- it works great. There are a bunch of tutorials on how to do it, but the tldr is you pull the nib + feed out, positioning the Zebra G nib such that the little cut thingy on the side lines up with the first or second notch on the feed, jam it back in and heat set it (See Goulet's video on how to do this with hot water). It's super easy. It took me about ten minutes after my Zebra Gs showed up in the mail.

Downsides: 1. (this doesn't seem to be universal, but is happening in my case) The nib touches the cap -- so ink gets on the inside of the cap. Doesn't seem to be too much of a problem, but that probably eliminates it from being an EDC. People have mentioned they don't have this problem with the Konrad. 2. Dip nibs aren't designed for this kindof constant contact with ink -- they'll corrode pretty fast. Some people say 1-2 weeks, some people say 6-8 months. I'm not sure. (Mine is filled with Diamine Evergreen, and I can see the ink around the nib changing color, so SOMETHING is happening)

Maybe show us a writing sample?

[jar]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

If you go to the DC show:

Find Susan Wirth.

Sit at her feet.

Look for Mauricio Aguilar.

Sit at his feet.

Report back to us.

[Laurie]

Here is another dip nib pen that I acquired a long the way. It is made by Ackerman Pens Berkeley CA USA.. It has some well documented problems with leakage but if you are careful it is fine. It is very interesting. It has two ends and two caps. It is actually two pens in one. So you can have two different nibs and inks. There is a little breather hole in the cap which you uncover by twisting the cap and this assists in getting the cap off the main body (tight fit and airpressure makes it hard to get off) and I think avoids sucking ink out. You fit various size feeds for various size dip nibs. You can buy feeds for the more common and favoured dip nibs The end with the actual nib is a quill size nib. I have about three feeds which are very easy to fit. To fill the pen you take out the feed and pour the ink into the main body. There is some sort of sac in there. You can see the green coloured sac on each end of the pen (there are two sacs and you can just see the green one on the right hand side of the pen underneath). You hold the pen with the side of your thumb against the sac and every now and then you press the sac to feed more ink to the nib.

The purpose of the pen was to avoid having to continually dip your nibs. I dont find that a problem except for some of the real flexy nibs that just open up and deposit most of the ink held by the nib on the paper. You are dipping these every few letters depending on the heaviness of the downstroke you are doing.

Next I intend to buy a quill and a few quill nibs just to experiment. This pen thing has so many wonderful and interesting aspects to explore. I might even make my own quill. But I am such an animal lover that I dont think I could fetch one from the wild.



225912259222593

[Sailor Kenshin]

Why not? Birds drop feathers right and left.

Interesting pen there.

[KBeezie]

Heard that akkerman pen when compared to something like the Desiderata had horrible performance. (least in all the reviews I looked up on it when I saw it once on ebay).

[SeminarianMike]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

If you go to the DC show:

Find Susan Wirth.

Sit at her feet.

Look for Mauricio Aguilar.

Sit at his feet.

Report back to us.

Hmm why the feet [emoji849]

[jar]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

If you go to the DC show:

Find Susan Wirth.

Sit at her feet.

Look for Mauricio Aguilar.

Sit at his feet.

Report back to us.

Hmm why the feet [emoji849]

It is the correct place for the student when learning from the Master.

[Jon Szanto]

Guys thanks so much I might look at this dip pen hybrid or just save up... Play with these Ahabs for awhile. I really would like a waterman 52 #2 or the unicorn pink nib but that's never going to happen on my budget unless I hit it lucky in an antique store... Which is funny cause that's how my friend ended up with his. I won't be at the Philly show but I will be planning to meet you all at the DC show in the summer!!!! Please keep this thread going learning allot [emoji7][emoji848]

If you go to the DC show:

Find Susan Wirth.

Sit at her feet.

Look for Mauricio Aguilar.

Sit at his feet.

Report back to us.

Hmm why the feet [emoji849]

It is the correct place for the student when learning from the Master.

Not to mention the usual short supply of chairs at pen shows.

[Laurie]

Heard that akkerman pen when compared to something like the Desiderata had horrible performance. (least in all the reviews I looked up on it when I saw it once on ebay).

Yes I heard the same and apparently they have had ongoing issues. I didnt find that many only a bit of leaking if you werent careful. I just store the pen upright. A friend of mine advised me they have been working on the design and it may be improved. Not sure. Interesting concept . Get all the flex from a dip nib and the continuous ink flow of a fountain pen.

[KBeezie]

Heard that akkerman pen when compared to something like the Desiderata had horrible performance. (least in all the reviews I looked up on it when I saw it once on ebay).

Yes I heard the same and apparently they have had ongoing issues. I didnt find that many only a bit of leaking if you werent careful. I just store the pen upright. A friend of mine advised me they have been working on the design and it may be improved. Not sure. Interesting concept . Get all the flex from a dip nib and the continuous ink flow of a fountain pen.

There was another brand of dip-nib-holding fountain pen that was a very similar concept to the Akkerman, but had notorious history of poor quality control and taking forever (months sometimes) to delivery a purchase)

[Laurie]

Heard that akkerman pen when compared to something like the Desiderata had horrible performance. (least in all the reviews I looked up on it when I saw it once on ebay).

Yes I heard the same and apparently they have had ongoing issues. I didnt find that many only a bit of leaking if you werent careful. I just store the pen upright. A friend of mine advised me they have been working on the design and it may be improved. Not sure. Interesting concept . Get all the flex from a dip nib and the continuous ink flow of a fountain pen.



There was another brand of dip-nib-holding fountain pen that was a very similar concept to the Akkerman, but had notorious history of poor quality control and taking forever (months sometimes) to delivery a purchase)

Didnt know about another one but a lot of complaints were that he didnt answer emails and goods took ages to be delivered. I just ordered 10 quills from China. It cost $3.50AUD including delivery. How can they do it for that price. All the swans and geese in my area are very relieved.

[jar]

Heard that akkerman pen when compared to something like the Desiderata had horrible performance. (least in all the reviews I looked up on it when I saw it once on ebay).

Yes I heard the same and apparently they have had ongoing issues. I didnt find that many only a bit of leaking if you werent careful. I just store the pen upright. A friend of mine advised me they have been working on the design and it may be improved. Not sure. Interesting concept . Get all the flex from a dip nib and the continuous ink flow of a fountain pen.



There was another brand of dip-nib-holding fountain pen that was a very similar concept to the Akkerman, but had notorious history of poor quality control and taking forever (months sometimes) to delivery a purchase)

Didnt know about another one but a lot of complaints were that he didnt answer emails and goods took ages to be delivered. I just ordered 10 quills from China. It cost $3.50AUD including delivery. How can they do it for that price. All the swans and geese in my area are very relieved.

A side benefit of Peking Duck.

[Laurie]

Well Mike here is one last thought for you on the flex experience. Take a look at this video. The lady's name is Schin and she is one of the best calligraphers I have seen. She is showing how to use a Brause rose 66 EF dip nib which is notorious for being difficult to start. Just watch what happens when she does get it to flow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rVo3jTBfhk

Sorry but the video is very long about 40 minutes. At one part she actually springs the tines on the nib. So that is a lesson for you. Even the masters can sometimes spring even a dip nib.

Maybe watch in parts. I am just inspired by Schin's talents and the beauty of her flourishes. If I had a last wish I think it would be to be able to do that. and write a letter to someone in that writing

[katherine]

Here's a writing sample and a picture of the discoloration that's happening...

(Didn't have any thicker paper on hand. Apparently Tomoe River is fragile. Surprise.)

http://imgur.com/nO5cqHq.png

http://imgur.com/300xG9c.png

[KBeezie]

This is nice though... but like $850-nice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqTcgCT3ynU

[katherine]

So I just repositioned the Zebra G in the Ahab (I'll draw a diagram later) and now the nib doesn't touch the cap. So I can carry it around without a puddle of ink in the cap. -____-

Still writes the same, which is nice. I threw it in my backpack (tried to keep it and my other pens vertical, but that's an approximation really) and took it to the gym and to work today, no leaks, and doesn't dry out particularly quickly. I can leave it on my desk uncapped, go back to typing and come back to it 5-10 minutes later and it'll start writing again pretty quickly.

[KBeezie]

So I just repositioned the Zebra G in the Ahab (I'll draw a diagram later) and now the nib doesn't touch the cap. So I can carry it around without a puddle of ink in the cap. -____-

Still writes the same, which is nice. I threw it in my backpack (tried to keep it and my other pens vertical, but that's an approximation really) and took it to the gym and to work today, no leaks, and doesn't dry out particularly quickly. I can leave it on my desk uncapped, go back to typing and come back to it 5-10 minutes later and it'll start writing again pretty quickly.

You leave a pen uncapped on your desk for 5 to 10 minutes?

[katherine]

So I just repositioned the Zebra G in the Ahab (I'll draw a diagram later) and now the nib doesn't touch the cap. So I can carry it around without a puddle of ink in the cap. -____-

Still writes the same, which is nice. I threw it in my backpack (tried to keep it and my other pens vertical, but that's an approximation really) and took it to the gym and to work today, no leaks, and doesn't dry out particularly quickly. I can leave it on my desk uncapped, go back to typing and come back to it 5-10 minutes later and it'll start writing again pretty quickly.

You leave a pen uncapped on your desk for 5 to 10 minutes?

Yeah, I'm lazy. >___>
I also walk around my office with it (uncapped) sandwiched in my travelers notebook. I leave the cap at my desk.

It's probably worth clarifying that I usually cap my pens, but since this one had the nib touching the cap, capping and recapping risked getting ink on the grip, then my fingers. I do admit that I occasionally forget and mean to type something really quick and end up leaving my pens uncapped longer than intended. (And thiiiis is why I use cheap pens at work)

[KBeezie]

Yeah, I'm lazy. >___>
I also walk around my office with it (uncapped) sandwiched in my travelers notebook. I leave the cap at my desk.

It's probably worth clarifying that I usually cap my pens, but since this one had the nib touching the cap, capping and recapping risked getting ink on the grip, then my fingers. I do admit that I occasionally forget and mean to type something really quick and end up leaving my pens uncapped longer than intended. (And thiiiis is why I use cheap pens at work)

Well it's nice that the feed/gap/etc is wet enough that it picks back up with the kind of ink you are using, but if you let the ink dry up too often around the feed the wetness of the ink behind it may not be enough to clear the blockage. Basically it can eventually start causing issues if you don't pull and flush every so often (Which I guess you'll need to do anyways for the dip nibs as they corrode faster).

Though personally I'd be more concerned about the nib somehow getting damaged by an a-hole of a cat if I left it uncapped and laying around for that long.

[katherine]

Well it's nice that the feed/gap/etc is wet enough that it picks back up with the kind of ink you are using, but if you let the ink dry up too often around the feed the wetness of the ink behind it may not be enough to clear the blockage. Basically it can eventually start causing issues if you don't pull and flush every so often (Which I guess you'll need to do anyways for the dip nibs as they corrode faster).

Though personally I'd be more concerned about the nib somehow getting damaged by an a-hole of a cat if I left it uncapped and laying around for that long.

Yeah, this pen is going to have issues either way... So I'm a lot less careful with it than I am with other pens. I figure I'll probably have to replace the nib in a couple weeks anyway.

Thankfully my office is cat free. All pens get capped quickly and put back in a case (or in my pocket) if I'm anywhere near a cat. Otherwise capped pens end up on the floor and under a couch. Argh cats.

[FredRydr]

A Waterman's 52 with worn or oxidised BHR/BCHR is a "classic" inexpensive vintage fountain pen with a flex nib. The 52 nibs aren't uniform; some will be more flexible than others. Figure $75-100. They are straightforward lever-fillers. Stay away from pristine pens and ripple pens to keep cost down.

Fred

[Jon Szanto]

A Waterman's 52 with worn or oxidised BHR/BCHR is a "classic" inexpensive vintage fountain pen with a flex nib. The 52 nibs aren't uniform; some will be more flexible than others. Figure $75-100. They are straightforward lever-fillers. Stay away from pristine pens and ripple pens to keep cost down.

Fred

This Fred guy knows what he's talking about. :)

[SeminarianMike]

Thanks guys

[amk]

Fred is right - sometimes I've nearly passed on a pen found in the wild for cracks in the cap, or chasing worn smooth, or missing clip - then taken aquick look at the nib and risked the money. Some of my best nibs came with so-so pens attached.

[SeminarianMike]

Im open to anything as long as it works and has nice flex! If you guys see any deals let me know [emoji5]

[Sailor Kenshin]

I saw a Youtube video of someone who made amazing flex nibs...with plastic.

[SeminarianMike]

Plastic nibs?

[katherine]

It's been a couple weeks since my initial reply about the Ahab + Zebra G nib. I replaced the nib and filled the pen with JHerbin Violet Pensee, and it's on week two and no rust. (Diamine Evergreen rusted through in a week)

[Sailor Kenshin]

Plastic nibs?


Yup...soda-bottle. Wonder if I can find the video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9aT_tiW3YA

[Inxoy]

Search soda bottle nib and there is a diy video, too. I'll give it a go and let you know.

[penwash]

It's been a couple weeks since my initial reply about the Ahab + Zebra G nib. I replaced the nib and filled the pen with JHerbin Violet Pensee, and it's on week two and no rust. (Diamine Evergreen rusted through in a week)

Diamine Evergreen on my FPR Indus with Gillot dip nib.
About 2 weeks, no sign of rust. Still trucking.

[pengeezer]

Something that hasn't been mentioned.....if you're looking for nibs with some flex to them,consider looking at
British fountain pens,esp. some of the lesser known ones. Sometimes they can be found on fleabay for a
song and a dance. British pens still continued to be flexy(or semi-flexy) into the 1940s while we on this
side of the pond were looking at pens like the Parker 51(non-flexy tubular nibs). Also consider that pens
and writing by that time was getting away from fancifully flowing script,a necessity for having a flex nib.


John

[cpt000]

SRBrown off youtube recently did a review of FPR Jaipur ($20+ Indian pen) - skip to 10.20 for the demo:


https://youtu.be/XNLFxaPHfYI?t=638

[penwash]

This is a pen that I just restored.
No name, full-sized pen with a flexible nib

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1717/25067333442_c2938c6553_c.jpg

[fountainpagan]

You may look for Salz eyedroppers, too. They have quite flexible nibs (but not all), and are not that costly (around $40/$50).