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Dreck
February 20th, 2016, 01:56 PM
I bought a bottle of Noodler’s 54th Massachusetts almost exactly 2 years ago. Since it is a delightful color with admirable qualities, I used it quite a bit (well, quite a bit for me. In about a year of solid use, I managed to write away about a quarter of the bottle). Then I found a thread somewhere about some of the “bulletproof” inks separating. Since I noticed a definite layer of sediment-y stuff with a tendency to cling to the bottom of the bottle for a bit, I decided that the best solution was to shake it vigorously for a bit and attempt to re-integrate the sediment-like layer.

This was clearly not my brightest moment, as the ink subsequently clogged every pen I tried it in. I tried to be as scientific as possible—ensuring that pens were thoroughly flushed and clean before attempting to use the offending bottle, then just as diligently re-flushing and cleaning before trying something else. The “something elses” were either another, newer bottle of 54th Mass, ESSRI, Chrsterfield Archival Vault, or Noodler’s Blue-Black. No problems with any of the pen/ink combinations apart from that one bottle.

Since there were visible particles, I thought I’d try straining the ink through a coffee filter. This made no difference, except that I now had two-thirds of a bottle instead of three-quarters (and some very blue paper filters).

My next step was to add distilled water and shake the ink in an attempt to break up the particles and get them re-integrated. No dice.

I ended up pouring the entire thing down the drain.

I know that some of you will begin with the “that’s why I steer clear of Noodler’s” or “that’s why I don’t buy boutique inks,” line of argumentation.
I don’t care about that, so don’t even say it. I have several bottles of Noodler’s, and while, yes sigh I know that every bottle is different and using it is a crapshoot, this is the only bottle I have had a problem with. I’m less upset about losing a $12 bottle of ink than I am about being unable to positively resolve this situation.

What I do care about is hearing if anyone else has ever had this problem with ANY ink (Noodler’s or other), whether this is a common problem, and what a better course of action might have been.

Anne
February 20th, 2016, 02:08 PM
Funny you should post this. I am just about to try this with some old Osmiroid and Platignum inks I was given recently. I am only brave enough to try it in an Airmail 444 ( eyedropper ).
They are cartridges, and the Platignum Brown does have visible cling-ons inside. Should be Very Interesting!:)

Dreck
February 20th, 2016, 03:05 PM
Funny you should post this. I am just about to try this with some old Osmiroid and Platignum inks I was given recently. I am only brave enough to try it in an Airmail 444 ( eyedropper ).
They are cartridges, and the Platignum Brown does have visible cling-ons inside. Should be Very Interesting!:)

This stuff wouldn't even write in an Airmail eyedropper that I tried it in! It clogged everything: an Esterbrook J, three different Noodler's Konrad pens, and an 80 year-old refurbished German student pen.
Please post your results here when you find out how your ink has performed.

Anne
February 20th, 2016, 04:19 PM
I appreciate the trial you have gone through - I was wondering if diluting with water would have helped here. And the coffee filter idea was great! I am surprised that that didn't make a difference though, so again, useful info to me also.
I had a lot of blurbs of ink popping out of the feed/nib. Not sure if it is due to just the use of the eyedropper though. I am using the flex nib and flex feed ( numerous, tiny fins ). This feed is the one on Fountain Pen Revolution's site as the "Spare Indus/Dilli/Triveni" feed. I thought it would be a good test because the cling-ons I see in the barrel are sure to try to pass through the little fins. I am going to continue writing with it and see if it too clogs.
Do you think we could use a tiny bit of dish detergent to the mix and maybe dissolve some of the cling-ons that way? Would vinegar be out of the question as well?

Dreck
February 20th, 2016, 04:59 PM
I don't know. Chemistry is completely out of my area of expertise.

Lady Onogaro
February 20th, 2016, 05:19 PM
I know it is not a problem exclusively with Noodler's. I had the same thing happen with a bottle of Lamy Blue Black (which is basically their iron gall ink). It completely separated into a watery blue liquid and a sludgy blue matter. Shaking the bottle made no difference. It was unusable.

Sailor Kenshin
February 20th, 2016, 05:38 PM
I bought a bottle of Noodler’s 54th Massachusetts almost exactly 2 years ago. Since it is a delightful color with admirable qualities, I used it quite a bit (well, quite a bit for me. In about a year of solid use, I managed to write away about a quarter of the bottle). Then I found a thread somewhere about some of the “bulletproof” inks separating. Since I noticed a definite layer of sediment-y stuff with a tendency to cling to the bottom of the bottle for a bit, I decided that the best solution was to shake it vigorously for a bit and attempt to re-integrate the sediment-like layer.

This was clearly not my brightest moment, as the ink subsequently clogged every pen I tried it in. I tried to be as scientific as possible—ensuring that pens were thoroughly flushed and clean before attempting to use the offending bottle, then just as diligently re-flushing and cleaning before trying something else. The “something elses” were either another, newer bottle of 54th Mass, ESSRI, Chrsterfield Archival Vault, or Noodler’s Blue-Black. No problems with any of the pen/ink combinations apart from that one bottle.

Since there were visible particles, I thought I’d try straining the ink through a coffee filter. This made no difference, except that I now had two-thirds of a bottle instead of three-quarters (and some very blue paper filters).

My next step was to add distilled water and shake the ink in an attempt to break up the particles and get them re-integrated. No dice.

I ended up pouring the entire thing down the drain.

I know that some of you will begin with the “that’s why I steer clear of Noodler’s” or “that’s why I don’t buy boutique inks,” line of argumentation.
I don’t care about that, so don’t even say it. I have several bottles of Noodler’s, and while, yes sigh I know that every bottle is different and using it is a crapshoot, this is the only bottle I have had a problem with. I’m less upset about losing a $12 bottle of ink than I am about being unable to positively resolve this situation.

What I do care about is hearing if anyone else has ever had this problem with ANY ink (Noodler’s or other), whether this is a common problem, and what a better course of action might have been.

You cleaned your pens, and they are now okay...did I get that right?

I only have that same ink (54th Mass) in a small sample vial, but i have an older bottle of 41 Brown with sedimentation. I shook it once or twice on different filling occasions, then stopped shaking and left the sediment lie. The 41 Brown didn't clog, either way.

I haven't ever filtered an ink, but I have had two bottles of JHerbin Vert Empire turn into jelly, and one Vert Olive with...strands...that clung to a pipette. I mailed the VE to JH. The VO is sitting in a corner, where I can keep a watchful eye on it.

I wonder if your ink would have been okay just leaving the sediment on the bottom and filling from the top.

Chemyst
February 20th, 2016, 09:36 PM
I had the same thing happen with a bottle of Lamy Blue Black (which is basically their iron gall ink). It completely separated into a watery blue liquid and a sludgy blue matter. Shaking the bottle made no difference. It was unusable.

Shaking won't help iron gall inks that have separated like you've described.

A bit of background. The "traditional" iron gall ink marketed for fountain pens consists of two major chemical "units": 1.) The temporary dye designed to make the ink visible when you put it on the page and 2.) the assorted components to keep the permanent color in a soluble form until it reacts with air. When you write with iron gall ink, you only see the blue (or grey, pink, purple &c) dye. The ink appears to be a pale unremarkable color. Then over the course of minutes or hours, your writing darkens and becomes permanent as the second group of components oxidize in contact with air.

Unfortunately, from the moment it is created, your iron gall ink is slowly oxidizing due to minute amounts of air getting into the bottle and reacting with the permanent components. Over time, you'll notice iron gall inks begin to throw sediment. The end state is precisely what you've described. All of the permanent components have reacted with air and formed solids and only the weak temporary dye is left as a liquid.

If you are chemically inclined, there are ways to go about doctoring the ink to restore it to its previously unoxidized state, but really it is a lot of work and it is simpler to just buy a new bottle of iron gall ink.

Chemyst
February 20th, 2016, 09:47 PM
I bought a bottle of Noodler’s 54th Massachusetts almost exactly 2 years ago. Since it is a delightful color with admirable qualities, I used it quite a bit (well, quite a bit for me. In about a year of solid use, I managed to write away about a quarter of the bottle). Then I found a thread somewhere about some of the “bulletproof” inks separating. Since I noticed a definite layer of sediment-y stuff with a tendency to cling to the bottom of the bottle for a bit, I decided that the best solution was to shake it vigorously for a bit and attempt to re-integrate the sediment-like layer.

<snip>

what a better course of action might have been.

There are three ways to approach this and it really depends on your personal preference:
1. Remove the solids.
2. Modify the ink to help keep the solids mobile.
3. Modify the pen to help keep the solids mobile.

As you've discovered, filtering the visible solids out doesn't necessarily mean that there are not other solid particles which invisible to the naked eye (and small enough to get through a coffee filter) but are large enough to aggregate or block small tolerances in your pen.

To number one, I'd suggest that either finer (vacuum) filters or a (ultra) centrifuge could be used to remove sequentially smaller and smaller particulates.

To number two, you can try dialing up the surfactant loading to reduce surface tension and lubricate solid interactions inside your pen.

To number three, this is where carving out feed channels, modifying the tines of your pen so you can see a ray of light between them and swapping out your feed for an acid etched ebonite one, come into play.

Dreck
February 21st, 2016, 05:50 AM
There are three ways to approach this
<snip>
To number two, you can try dialing up the surfactant loading to reduce surface tension and lubricate solid interactions inside your pen.

To number three, this is where carving out feed channels, modifying the tines of your pen so you can see a ray of light between them and swapping out your feed for an acid etched ebonite one, come into play.

Thanks!
For increasing the surfectant loading, what would you recommend as far as kind and amount of additive? I'd really rather not widen the feed channel or tine spacing. I prefer drier writers, and use a fine or ef nib.

Chemyst
February 21st, 2016, 06:08 AM
Thanks!
For increasing the surfectant loading, what would you recommend as far as kind and amount of additive? I'd really rather not widen the feed channel or tine spacing. I prefer drier writers, and use a fine or ef nib.

I'd recommend whatever you have on hand that is convenient, at least to see if it helps initially.

If you search, you'll find people recommending professional stuff (Triton brand surfactants) and photo developer chemicals (Kodak PhotoFlo). Both are good, but probably more than you really need. Instead I'd recommend you transfer some of the troublesome ink to a smaller container, dip a toothpick into some washing up fluid (liquid dish detergent) and then dip that toothpick into the ink sample. It's easy to get too much, so start off slow and experiment.

Keep in mind, you are altering the balance of the ink chemistry. You'll get better flow, but you may get other unexpected results. Surfactants, in addition to mediating surface tension, act as co-solvents and are involved in a lot of solution chemistry. That is another good reason to experiment in small batches and go slowly.

HTH!