Why don't we chat in the For Sale forum?

[penwash]

Just starting a conversation here, I wonder why people don't talk about the pens being sold (or WTB or WTT) in the Classifieds section?

Is it a sense of formality? But we're in a hobby forum, not a Stock Exchange.
It's like there is an unwritten rule that it's taboo to chat with the seller because that somehow indicate interest or obligation to buy the pen? This makes little sense to me.

As one who sell a few pens here and there, I am thrilled if someone took the time to comment on the pen that I restored or the photos or the writing sample (bad or good comments). And I don't expect those who comment to buy the pen, I'm not a pen dealer who rely on this for a living, this is just a fun hobby for me.

I think chatting in a the forum Classifieds can increase the level of knowledge, interest, and yes, the sense of community -- after all, don't people chat in the street markets?

Your thoughts?

[katherine]

I often want to post random questions about the pen -- but I worry that the seller might be excited that someone replied, then annoyed that I'm not actually looking to buy. :<

[top pen]

I can understand others may get annoyed if you take a post that's there to sell an item off topic. Maybe members could say e.g. all conversation welcome for instance. It would make things interesting though.

[Marsilius]

I have tended not to post there based on concept of not wasting space. For same reason that I only use the thanks button rather than typing thanks. I remember the latter from the intro guidelines and extrapolated from that.

[Haga888]

I think asking questions or commenting on the pen is fine. I think commenting on the asking price or haggling for the pen is inappropriate. I'm in other forums where they lock off the ability for others to reply in the for sale section. I think the complaint was there was too much "wow, that's a great ___".

I have a pen listed now that has an unmarked nib that I just assumed must be steel. A kind member PM'd me that it is in fact gold. I think it would have been fine to just have replied directly in my ad for example.

[AltecGreen]

You can end up in some awkward situations. One time I saw an ad for an Omas pen on FPN's classified many years ago. I made the offhand remark that the same pen was being sold new by nibs.com for less and that the pen in question was suffering celluloid degeneration. (The blue celluloid used by Omas is prone to discoloration turning into purple). The seller was less than pleased with my remarks and contacted the admins. This lead to an unpleasant exchange with a mod. I don't think the seller ever sold that pen on FPN.

[KBeezie]

I think 'chat' may be confused with being off-topic, and should be restricted to asking questions about the items currently in sale (though it goes downhill when that conversation involves scrutiny over the pricing/etc).

Some people don't like to ask (probably because in the past I have seen some sellers get defensive), or if they do they do so in a private message.

I don't see a comment as an obligation to buy, it's not one until they're like "I'll take it, what's your paypal?" or similar.

[Jon Szanto]

As others have intimated, I try very hard to not comment in sales so as to not distract from the seller's actual purpose, which is finding a buyer. It is so preciously easy for a thread to drift, humor or vitriol to be injected, and soon there is a long thread where there should really be just focused comments on the sale in progress.

I guess you could say it is one of my rare examples of self-restraint. In my mind, I believe that is appreciated. :)

[Inkybeans]

I have a WTS/WTT currently open and I would gladly welcome questions about the pen in my mind it means it remains near the top of the 'what's new' pile. However i do understand the false hope scenario as well.

[TSherbs]

I have asked questions, remarked on aspects of the pic or information listed, and used the pm functionality. None of it is chat-like, although kbeezie and I exchanged pleasantries over a pen I bought from a seller here. :wave: It turned out that kbeezie had been the prior owner!

[pengeezer]

You can end up in some awkward situations. One time I saw an ad for an Omas pen on FPN's classified many years ago. I made the offhand remark that the same pen was being sold new by nibs.com for less and that the pen in question was suffering celluloid degeneration. (The blue celluloid used by Omas is prone to discoloration turning into purple). The seller was less than pleased with my remarks and contacted the admins. This lead to an unpleasant exchange with a mod. I don't think the seller ever sold that pen on FPN.


I think I remember that incident. That member(not sure if they're still there) tried to make life difficult for
a pen restorer(IIRC) because they didn't think the restorer did the job the way he wanted it done--or
something like that.



John

[AltecGreen]

You can end up in some awkward situations. One time I saw an ad for an Omas pen on FPN's classified many years ago. I made the offhand remark that the same pen was being sold new by nibs.com for less and that the pen in question was suffering celluloid degeneration. (The blue celluloid used by Omas is prone to discoloration turning into purple). The seller was less than pleased with my remarks and contacted the admins. This lead to an unpleasant exchange with a mod. I don't think the seller ever sold that pen on FPN.


I think I remember that incident. That member(not sure if they're still there) tried to make life difficult for
a pen restorer(IIRC) because they didn't think the restorer did the job the way he wanted it done--or
something like that.



John


The even funnier part of that story is that the pen was up for sale for a really long time. After a long time, the seller posted asking for advice on selling the pen so I made my remarks. He kind of asked for it.

[penwash]

You can end up in some awkward situations. One time I saw an ad for an Omas pen on FPN's classified many years ago. I made the offhand remark that the same pen was being sold new by nibs.com for less and that the pen in question was suffering celluloid degeneration. (The blue celluloid used by Omas is prone to discoloration turning into purple). The seller was less than pleased with my remarks and contacted the admins. This lead to an unpleasant exchange with a mod. I don't think the seller ever sold that pen on FPN.

I see where you're coming from.
But at the same time, this is not FPN, so the same thing may or may not happen.

[penwash]

Take a look at this For Sale thread:

http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15182-Goodwriters-Sales-Upload

I think that is an excellent case where "chat" can actually enhance the sale. Because of the friendly banter, I checked out Deb's site and were it not the shipping cost from UK to US, I may have bought that Conway Stewart that winked at me.

[hansdown]

I am new to fountain pens and new to fpgeeks and recently purchased a pen on this forum. I asked the seller a question and explained that I am learning about all the different nib choices. The seller gave me a good answer and then another member also commented saying how they liked this pen and nib, and did state that they were not interested in this sale as they already owned the pen. I really appreciated the third party commenting and I then pm'd the seller and purchased the pen. The whole process worked really well.

[AltecGreen]

You can end up in some awkward situations. One time I saw an ad for an Omas pen on FPN's classified many years ago. I made the offhand remark that the same pen was being sold new by nibs.com for less and that the pen in question was suffering celluloid degeneration. (The blue celluloid used by Omas is prone to discoloration turning into purple). The seller was less than pleased with my remarks and contacted the admins. This lead to an unpleasant exchange with a mod. I don't think the seller ever sold that pen on FPN.

I see where you're coming from.
But at the same time, this is not FPN, so the same thing may or may not happen.

Perhaps, but that FPN was a very different FPN than what exists today. It was more like FPGeeks as it is now with more traffic. It will probably be fine for a while.

[Jon Szanto]

I think that is an excellent case where "chat" can actually enhance the sale. Because of the friendly banter, I checked out Deb's site and were it not the shipping cost from UK to US, I may have bought that Conway Stewart that winked at me.

No one is saying you can't do it. You can. And probably, in most cases, it will be fine. But with light-to-no moderation, and no rules about this, who will take the blame if a flame fest occurs, or a sales thread gets buried in unrelated chattiness? Really, anything can happen, both good and ill.

After all, human beings are involved.

[stub]

plus it sort of can just look like that chat is being milked as a way to bump the thread over others ... Not being too chatty in your for sale add is in some ways a courtesy to the other sellers who want the sunny spot to sometimes too.

[Sandy Fry]

I have only bought one pen from the " for sale " section ( so far ) and I asked all my questions via PM.

I see no difference in asking a seller a question here ( or via PM ) or a salesperson in a B&M store. If I want to buy the pen I will and if not, I won't.

David

[penwash]

I think that is an excellent case where "chat" can actually enhance the sale. Because of the friendly banter, I checked out Deb's site and were it not the shipping cost from UK to US, I may have bought that Conway Stewart that winked at me.

No one is saying you can't do it. You can. And probably, in most cases, it will be fine. But with light-to-no moderation, and no rules about this, who will take the blame if a flame fest occurs, or a sales thread gets buried in unrelated chattiness? Really, anything can happen, both good and ill.

After all, human beings are involved.

Sure. I wasn't asking whether it's allowed or not.

I'm simply wondering what are the reasons that we don't. Lot's of good thoughts expressed here and as you said, most of the time, I think it will end well.

In light of the recent 'beams of sunshine' from FPN, I thought it'd be very neat if FPGeeks starts to be known for not only a good Classified section, but also where people are having fun. After all, aren't we aiming for fun when we adopt Fountain Pens as a hobby?

[penwash]

I am new to fountain pens and new to fpgeeks and recently purchased a pen on this forum. I asked the seller a question and explained that I am learning about all the different nib choices. The seller gave me a good answer and then another member also commented saying how they liked this pen and nib, and did state that they were not interested in this sale as they already owned the pen. I really appreciated the third party commenting and I then pm'd the seller and purchased the pen. The whole process worked really well.

You illustrated my point perfectly.

[sloegin]

Stub's post is quite relevant. It bumps the hypothetical conversational thread to the top. Which isn't the worse thing if it is your thread, but is discourteous to the other sellers. Which brings up another pet peeve, the sellers that don't consolidate their listings into one thread!

[carlos.q]

I have no problems with questions and a bit of conversation on the For Sale forum. I thought the collaborative limerick in Deb's last post was a blast!
What I would really appreciate is that more sellers take some time to post a review of the pen(s) they are selling. Then they could link the ad to the review so that buyers can get a better idea of what they are buying. Maybe it's to much to ask? :rain:

[penwash]

Stub's post is quite relevant. It bumps the hypothetical conversational thread to the top. Which isn't the worse thing if it is your thread, but is discourteous to the other sellers. Which brings up another pet peeve, the sellers that don't consolidate their listings into one thread!

I don't know about being discourteous.

The way I see it:
The ability to sell the pen in the Classified here is a privilege to be a part of a community. Unlike FPN which has a (very confusing IMHO) structure of paying sellers -- which is partly why I stop selling there -- FPGeeks Classified section is there to serve the community not just the sellers. If my For Sale ads get bumped by interesting conversations, then I'd better make my ad more interesting and conversation-worthy (or sell more interesting pens).

That's how selling is conducted everywhere else in the world.
Why does it have to be an exception here?

[stub]

I agree with myself. Nothing more annoying than making a listing only to see it disappear off the first page in an hour because others have bumped enmass. Thankfully that rarely happens here.

Make your add. Put it in the que. Have your time in the sun and let others have theirs. Bump it once in a while. Excessive blabbing in the thread just looks like hogging the top spot. If there is a conversation that occurs organically, then yes by all means but I hate to see the for sale portion get chatty.

I am pretty sure the rest of the forum is already quite glacially slow as it is. Put your content in the right place.

Let's not have another shitty situation like the FPN where one person is allowed to monopolize the front page for months on end.




Stub's post is quite relevant. It bumps the hypothetical conversational thread to the top. Which isn't the worse thing if it is your thread, but is discourteous to the other sellers. Which brings up another pet peeve, the sellers that don't consolidate their listings into one thread!

[penwash]

Let's not have another shitty situation like the FPN where one person is allowed to monopolize the front page for months on end.


Huh?
How is that person monopolize the front page?
Unless he's having a lot of conversation with himself.

And If the community is involved, who are we to prevent that from happening?

Why are you projecting what happened in FPN into this forum.
This is not FPN.

[stub]

I think you misunderstand me entirely.




Let's not have another shitty situation like the FPN where one person is allowed to monopolize the front page for months on end.


Huh?
How is that person monopolize the front page?
Unless he's having a lot of conversation with himself.

And If the community is involved.

Look at the FPN classifieds in the last 4 months or so? If so it is clear. One person, with some kind of gold membership thing has his whole collection for sale on the FPN. Hundreds of pens, all about 2x the price anyone would even consider paying so they don't sell and he bumps every day. He has so many pens for sale that he is able to bump a whole bunch each day. He is following the letter of the law there so he is allowed to continue but he has more or less turned the FPN into his personal store front to unload his whole massive collection. Only nothing ever sells. And so anything not by this person gets pushed down the classifieds page and gets buried. He has, in a round about way found a method to partially monopolize the classifieds. So much so that folks have given up checking and selling there has become difficult for others. He probably would sell his collection if he cut his prices. But instead the same $555 Sheaffer Prelude gets bumped eternally. Community is not involved. Many object but he is following the letter of the law so it is allowed to go on. But it has absolutely completely altered the dynamic of that page.





Why are you projecting what happened in FPN into this forum.
This is not FPN.

uh. whatever on this. sheesh.

You are not getting what I am saying.

The essence is this:
Conversations in the for sale would have the effect of bumping the conversation to the top and we could potentially have the same effect, which is that some things keep perpetually getting bumped to the front to the determent of others marring the main function of the For Sale board, which is to sell things. It could possibly just turn into a playground for a particular group of so inclined sellers. When, actually, we have other place already on the board for conversation that are, frankly, undernourished as it is.

YOU CAN COOK IN THE BATHROOM AND SHOWER IN YOUR KITCHEN IF YOU WANT. I am just pointing out the possible negative, unintended side effects of doing that.

[Haga888]

"Claudio"?

[stub]

In any case that was just meant as an example let's get hung up on that.

The bottom line is that every time you post in a thread on the For Sale forum you are bumping it. If there is a lot of yammering on there just for the sake of chewing the fat you are also bumping up the post and I don't see any reason why that post should get privileged in a sales forum over one that has no conversation in it. All you'd be doing is pushing those threads off down from the top and that doesn't seem fair to the other sellers. Just because there is nothing to say about the sale doesn't mean that sell shouldn't have their turn at the top. Now if there was a way to post and not bump the thread (say the thread only was bumped after a certain amount of time) then it would be fair but every seller should have some fair shot at having their listing stay on page one for a while.

The implication here is that that thread/item deserves more of the spotlight if it has a bunch of posts in it. I say that is stinkin' thinking. A nice boring sale of a Pilot C74 M deserves as much virtual shelf space as some one else's bespoke fancy pants pen. It isn't a popularity contest, it is a for sale page. All sellers and all pens should have their shot in the rotation. Having more "interesting" pens to sell shouldn't entitle anyone to special treatment or extra time at the top of the rotation imo.

[penwash]

I think you misunderstand me entirely.




Why are you projecting what happened in FPN into this forum.
This is not FPN.

uh. whatever on this. sheesh.

You are not getting what I am saying.

The essence is this:
Conversations in the for sale would have the effect of bumping the conversation to the top and we could potentially have the same effect, which is that some things keep perpetually getting bumped to the front to the determent of others marring the main function of the For Sale board, which is to sell things. It could possibly just turn into a playground for a particular group of so inclined sellers. When, actually, we have other place already on the board for conversation that are, frankly, undernourished as it is.

YOU CAN COOK IN THE BATHROOM AND SHOWER IN YOUR KITCHEN IF YOU WANT. I am just pointing out the possible negative, unintended side effects of doing that.

I am not being antagonistic.
But I truly don't get why you keep comparing here with FPN.

What happened in FPN is caused by how FPN is organized.
And I do know the whole Claudio dealer situation, that's why I don't like places where vendors *pay* to earn their spot.

Also again, your comparison with showering in the kitchen is not applicable here. You *can* chat in the Classified, there is nothing preventing you to do that. I can't shower in my kitchen, I won't fit in the sink.

The side effect that you portrayed has very little chance of happening here. Why? Because things are not the same here as on FPN. There is no Claudio, there is no backstage shake hand between the owners and dealers, and for the most part, FPGeeks is a quaint little place. And I think most people here like it partly because of that.

Look, I'll give you the last word. You can refute what I say here one more time and let's end this particular conversation. We can disagree and have no hard feelings.

[stub]

I am not being antagonistic.
But I truly don't get why you keep comparing here with FPN.


It was just an example. That it was the FPN was beside the point really.



Look, I'll give you the last word. You can refute what I say here one more time and let's end this particular conversation. We can disagree and have no hard feelings.

I actually don't have any burning desire to refute. I said what I feel and stand behind that.

You think chatting in the For Sale forum is a dandy idea. I personally don't. I feel like we can chat in the otherwise still underused regular forum and let the for sale board better serve it's main purpose.

A little chat seems fine to me, if it is genuine and arises naturally.

This isn't the hill I want to die on. I've made my point, you've made yours.

We're good.

[jar]

I have never hesitated to post a comment in a sales thread when I have something positive to add and where I have experience with a pen similar to the one for sale. I do not chat in a sales thread, that serves no real purpose I can imagine.

[Marsilius]

I also have appreciated it when someone I trust points out that a new or unkown to me seller is trustworthy. Useful info.
This was an interesting question to ask, penwash, oops I mean Will!

[Deb]

I noticed that my poetry/sales post has been referred to several times in this thread. I've been doing things this way – with a little utterly atrocious poem – for some time now. I don't only do it here but also in the other group I subscribe to and on my own blog. It is not my intention to create discussion and thereby "bump" my post.

I'll stop doing it this way if it is generally felt that it is unfair.

[Marsilius]

I noticed that my poetry/sales post has been referred to several times in this thread. I've been doing things this way – with a little utterly atrocious poem – for some time now. I don't only do it here but also in the other group I subscribe to and on my own blog. It is not my intention to create discussion and thereby "bump" my post.

I'll stop doing it this way if it is generally felt that it is unfair.
Utterly atrocious poems are the best, though!

[migo984]

I noticed that my poetry/sales post has been referred to several times in this thread. I've been doing things this way – with a little utterly atrocious poem – for some time now. I don't only do it here but also in the other group I subscribe to and on my own blog. It is not my intention to create discussion and thereby "bump" my post.

I'll stop doing it this way if it is generally felt that it is unfair.

Don't stop!

[Jon Szanto]

I'll stop doing it this way if it is generally felt that it is unfair.

If you ever stop doing that I will personally fly to Scotland and chide you!

[top pen]

One thing about FPN I like is the dedicated classifieds tab, times when you come looking for a pen, other times when you come simply looking for discussion. It's nice to have the two separate.

[gbryal]

I don't post much to sales threads because I think the seller would like to keep the top post on the first page that you see when you click on the for sale post.

[Deb]

Oh! Not the chiding! Anything but the chiding!
If there's going to be chiding
I'll go into hiding
It's my time I'm biding
So don't be deriding!

[penwash]

I have never hesitated to post a comment in a sales thread when I have something positive to add and where I have experience with a pen similar to the one for sale. I do not chat in a sales thread, that serves no real purpose I can imagine.

What does a chat -- anywhere -- serve if it's measured in "real purpose" ?
Probably not a whole lot.

But it could bring out interest, foster some previously unasked question, and generally make the Classified feels less... classified.

That's my view and if you don't see it, A-ok!

[penwash]

I noticed that my poetry/sales post has been referred to several times in this thread. I've been doing things this way – with a little utterly atrocious poem – for some time now. I don't only do it here but also in the other group I subscribe to and on my own blog. It is not my intention to create discussion and thereby "bump" my post.

I'll stop doing it this way if it is generally felt that it is unfair.

Deb, you're one of my heroes in pen selling in FPGeek.

Please, do not stop. :tea:

[Deb]

Thank you kindly.

[Titivillus]

Wasn't there a recent Lamy post that had someone smacking down another poster because of a comment on the price. I'd say to think about it as if you were in a store talking to a salesperson with other people around. You could talk about the pen maybe ask about the nib or say that it looks like something else but wouldn't call it a piece of 'xxx' or say that it was overpriced..

[Fouez]

(snip) I'd say to think about it as if you were in a store talking to a salesperson with other people around. You could talk about the pen maybe ask about the nib or say that it looks like something else but wouldn't call it a piece of 'xxx' or say that it was overpriced..

I would wait for the other people around to leave before saying that the pen is overpriced in my opinion... that is why there's private messages, so you can be sure no one is around.