Mabie Todd Swan 3220 - Restored (Sean Nicholson) - 14K Semi-Flex Fine

[KBeezie]

I have decided that I will sell the Swan 3220, Deep Blue Body/Cap with a 14K Semi-Flex Fine Nib that I got back restored. In the end prefer the nib on my Swan 205/60 and my American Swan SF1.

This is fully restored and checked over by Sean Nicholson of Write on Time Restoration. Sac fills really well with just a little pull of the lever (a 45 degree a couple times does the trick taking up what seems like a little over a ml). It's a solid feeling body with a nice firm cap threads and clip on the tight side. It also posts rather well. The nib has a some feedback on my choice of paper (Environotes Sugarcane), tad more so than my Pelikan 400NN which has very similar nib size and flexibility.

I'm hoping to break about even on the purchase and restoration cost of $120 + Shipping.

I would also consider Trades + Partial Cash ( See my 'catalog' list to see what I'm currently into : http://pastebin.com/Wvgew3p5 to get some ideas ).
Would also consider a Sailor 1911L with a 21K H-MF (traded one away couple months back, already missing it, especially that nib).

300 DPI Scan of the Write Sample with Montblanc Irish Green : http://i.imgur.com/U2brEz0.jpg
Earlier Write Sample with a Dry Ink (R&K Scabiosa) : http://i.imgur.com/OU5DOVB.jpg

Pictures

http://i.imgur.com/yvKcq7Z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mxVwJgX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AgVj0ew.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U2brEz0l.jpg

This earlier shot when I got the three pens back from him under direct unfiltered lighting that shows the blue a little better but also shows some of the micro-scratches that usually only show under harsher direct light.

http://i.imgur.com/kl6r1WU.jpg

Any questions, feel free to ask.

[Deb]

Thanks for that. You're such a nice person.

[Hawk]

KBreezie, did you privately express your displeasure with this pen that you got from Deb? I guess if it were me, I would have just moved along and promoted the good attributes of the pen in order to sell it. Isn't Market Feedback a better place to evaluate a seller?

[fountainpagan]

I am sorry, just, I am curious:

Did you really think the "history behind the pen" was a needed sales argumentation? Or were you just willing to retaliate for a wrong doing you estimated had been done to you, and took the oportunity for publicly showing how desperate for attention you are?
Ok, you get it, I pity you. There, there, I hope you could find some solace.

[robertjwarren]

Wow ....remind me never to post on this site!

[KBeezie]

KBreezie, did you privately express your displeasure with this pen that you got from Deb? I guess if it were me, I would have just moved along and promoted the good attributes of the pen in order to sell it. Isn't Market Feedback a better place to evaluate a seller?

I did and instead of addressing directly she took to facebook about someone questioning her restoration methods which was later removed after a day.

[Hawk]

Wow ....remind me never to post on this site!

Just treat others how you want to be treated.

[Deb]

KBreezie, did you privately express your displeasure with this pen that you got from Deb? I guess if it were me, I would have just moved along and promoted the good attributes of the pen in order to sell it. Isn't Market Feedback a better place to evaluate a seller?

I did and instead of addressing directly she took to facebook about someone questioning her restoration methods which was later removed after a day.

I certainly did reply to you and I will quote from that reply later in this comment. As regards the Facebook entry: it was not removed. It is a reflection of my blog entries and you will find that particular one here: http://goodwriterspens.com/?s=restoration+practices. You have no cause for complaint. I did not identify you and I used the experience to test opinion on my restoration practices.

To deal with the issues you raise here before you edited your post: you complain that the cap had not been cleaned out and that either the nib did not write or did not write to your satisfaction. In my emailed response to you at the time, I dealt with the issue of ink in the cap as follows:

"With very rare exceptions I avoid getting water inside the barrel or cap and I don't soak any part of the pen in water, a pernicious practice that leads to the kind of trouble later that I wouldn't want to inflict on my customers. I've had pens in for repair that have had rusted pressure bars and clip fixings from soaking. The latter, in particular, can be a difficult and time-consuming repair which is best avoided. Strange though it may seem you can have an accumulation of years of water-based ink without any problem but as soon as you get plain water in there the rusting begins. I could, I suppose, clean the interiors of caps with naptha, but as no previous customer in many years of pen repair has expressed concern about the cleanliness of the cap interior, I just leave well alone. After all, accumulation of ink in the interior of the cap is of no practical or even aesthetic concern unless one shines a light in there and I'm not sure why anyone would do that."

Furthermore, I offered to take the pen back for a full refund as is my practice, which is also explained on my sales website.

As regards the nib, it was writing well when it left me. It was thoroughly write-tested and it was also used to provide the writing sample which you would have seen before you purchased the pen. I retain all my photographs, including those of the nib and the writing sample.

Though you have now edited your sales post to remove the things you had previously said about me, my reputation has been traduced, completely unjustly, I believe. There is no way of mending that. Given what you have done you should not be allowed to hide behind your username. Prospective sellers and pen repairers should be aware of Karl Blessing.

[KBeezie]

I certainly did reply to you and I will quote from that reply later in this comment. As regards the Facebook entry: it was not removed. It is a reflection of my blog entries and you will find that particular one here: http://goodwriterspens.com/?s=restoration+practices. You have no cause for complaint. I did not identify you and I used the experience to test opinion on my restoration practices.


A day after you posted the facebook post is when you replied. And it was after I had shared photos of the 'new' swan but also my disappointment in the facebook group where you were unnamed, one could put one and one together and thus have been self identified.



To deal with the issues you raise here before you edited your post: you complain that the cap had not been cleaned out and that either the nib did not write or did not write to your satisfaction. In my emailed response to you at the time, I dealt with the issue of ink in the cap as follows:
...


It went beyond just having the cap crusted with years old ink (something I would expected to have been swabbed out at least in a restoration) but the years-worth of ink was also caked in and around the feed and underside of the nib that with a simple initial flushing of water it was dark blue with the old ink as if it was not flushed before being stored.



Furthermore, I offered to take the pen back for a full refund as is my practice, which is also explained on my sales website.

As regards the nib, it was writing well when it left me. It was thoroughly write-tested and it was also used to provide the writing sample which you would have seen before you purchased the pen. I retain all my photographs, including those of the nib and the writing sample.



Then I would be out shipping cost both ways for the misrepresentation, and the write sample disappears once a sale has been made apparently on that site. If you were to pull it up again you would see that unless you were extremely heavy handed the results would not be the same as yours and the tipping is not a medium nor is it more than a semi-flex.

Also since you bought up the replies. Just for sake of transparency (last email was never replied to), back in mid-december.



Hello Deb,

Wanted to let you know the pen finally arrived safely.

I do have a question in regards to what is entailed in 'restoration'. For
example is your level of restoration simply replacing the sac, or do you
also make sure to clean out the years worth of old ink from the feed and
inside the cap?

Sincerely
Karl Blessing




Hi Karl,

Thanks for letting me know the pen arrived safely. That's about the average time it takes for shipping from here to the United States. Most of the delay seems to be in customs stateside.

When I receive a pen I give it a thorough visual inspection. Then I disassemble it as necessary and carry out whatever repairs are indicated which includes thorough flushing to ensure good ink flow. If necessary I drift out the feed and nib to clear any blockages. Then I clean and hand polish the exterior of the pen, followed by write-testing and nib adjustment should that be required.

With very rare exceptions I avoid getting water inside the barrel or cap and I don't soak any part of the pen in water, a pernicious practice that leads to the kind of trouble later that I wouldn't want to inflict on my customers. I've had pens in for repair that have had rusted pressure bars and clip fixings from soaking. The latter, in particular, can be a difficult and time-consuming repair which is best avoided. Strange though it may seem you can have an accumulation of years of water-based ink without any problem but as soon as you get plain water in there the rusting begins. I could, I suppose, clean the interiors of caps with naptha, but as no previous customer in many years of pen repair has expressed concern about the cleanliness of the cap interior, I just leave well alone. After all, accumulation of ink in the interior of the cap is of no practical or even aesthetic concern unless one shines a light in there and I'm not sure why anyone would do that.

If you're not happy with the pen I do have a returns policy which is explained on the website.

Best regards,
Deb




The reason I ask is because while I anticipate a restored pen might have a little ink in it from testing after restoring, I wasn't expecting what appeared to be years-worth of dried ink left in the pen that it took forever to flush clearly with just tap. Only way to get it to flush clear was to pull the nib and feed out, rinse the sac, and put the feed into the ultrasonic cleaner to get off the rest of the dried ink that was caked on. Same situation with the inside of the cap which appears to be pretty saturated with old ink (which can become a problem when new ink condensates inside of the cap), which I just simply swabbed out with some q-tips dipped in a little water.

So was curious if at least a proper flush was part of your restoration process.

The nib seems to be firmer closer to a semi-flex and closer to a western fine, but I understand that both sizing and 'degree of flex' is not an exact science and will vary from person to person. Really like the body, just trying to find an ink for this specific nib and feed that will write with my light touch because presently with Salix (which tends to be my default choice of ink when it comes to vintage flex) won't really stroke with my lighter hand especially at the starting strokes.

Will try another ink this weekend and re-test, if I can't get it working with my style of writing I'll probably send it off to NibSmith.com.

Sincerely
Karl Blessing


And course now you know it went to Sean since he mentioned he could adjust the nib as well as check out the insides/etc and further restore what needed to be. And with even the wettest of inks it would not write unless you bore down on it. And I was never talking about water inside the barrel, but inside the sac/feed/nib (since not sure where 'rusting' was coming up). Also is using lighter fluid as a pen cleaning agent commonplace?

[Deb]

A day after you posted the facebook post is when you replied. And it was after I had shared photos of the 'new' swan but also my disappointment in the facebook group where you were unnamed, one could put one and one together and thus have been self identified.

Not so - my reply to you and my blog post/Facebook entry are dated 18th December. I really don't know what you are talking about with regard to "the facebook group where you were unnamed". My Facebook I.D. is Goodwriters Pens, and while I belong to a few fountain pen groups, I have not posted to them about you or this pen. I really have difficulty understanding what it is you are trying to say.



To deal with the issues you raise here before you edited your post: you complain that the cap had not been cleaned out and that either the nib did not write or did not write to your satisfaction. In my emailed response to you at the time, I dealt with the issue of ink in the cap as follows:
...


It went beyond just having the cap crusted with years old ink (something I would expected to have been swabbed out at least in a restoration) but the years-worth of ink was also caked in and around the feed and underside of the nib that with a simple initial flushing of water it was dark blue with the old ink as if it was not flushed before being stored.

The pen had excellent ink flow. You seem to be the kind of person that is looking for something to object to.



Furthermore, I offered to take the pen back for a full refund as is my practice, which is also explained on my sales website.

As regards the nib, it was writing well when it left me. It was thoroughly write-tested and it was also used to provide the writing sample which you would have seen before you purchased the pen. I retain all my photographs, including those of the nib and the writing sample.



Then I would be out shipping cost both ways for the misrepresentation, and the write sample disappears once a sale has been made apparently on that site. If you were to pull it up again you would see that unless you were extremely heavy handed the results would not be the same as yours and the tipping is not a medium nor is it more than a semi-flex.

That's complete nonsense. I fully refund return postage when a pen is returned for refund, and I refund all postage where pens are returned for further work. As I have previously mentioned in this thread, I save all of my photos - had you wanted to see the writing sample again, you need only have asked. I'm not sure why you would need to see the writing sample again. My site, like many others, removes sold items so that there is no confusion between what is for sale and what is not. That's general practice. Flexibility and nib-width are issues one could argue over all day long. It's not in my interest - or indeed anyone else's, so far as I can see - to lie about them. While everyone's writing pressures will be different, there is nothing "heavy-handed" about my writing, as there is no need to "misrepresent" the pens I sell. I sell all flexibilities.

Also since you bought up the replies. Just for sake of transparency (last email was never replied to), back in mid-december.

I did not quote your emails as it is regarded as bad practice to do so without permission.



Hello Deb,

Wanted to let you know the pen finally arrived safely.

I do have a question in regards to what is entailed in 'restoration'. For
example is your level of restoration simply replacing the sac, or do you
also make sure to clean out the years worth of old ink from the feed and
inside the cap?

Sincerely
Karl Blessing




Hi Karl,

Thanks for letting me know the pen arrived safely. That's about the average time it takes for shipping from here to the United States. Most of the delay seems to be in customs stateside.

When I receive a pen I give it a thorough visual inspection. Then I disassemble it as necessary and carry out whatever repairs are indicated which includes thorough flushing to ensure good ink flow. If necessary I drift out the feed and nib to clear any blockages. Then I clean and hand polish the exterior of the pen, followed by write-testing and nib adjustment should that be required.

With very rare exceptions I avoid getting water inside the barrel or cap and I don't soak any part of the pen in water, a pernicious practice that leads to the kind of trouble later that I wouldn't want to inflict on my customers. I've had pens in for repair that have had rusted pressure bars and clip fixings from soaking. The latter, in particular, can be a difficult and time-consuming repair which is best avoided. Strange though it may seem you can have an accumulation of years of water-based ink without any problem but as soon as you get plain water in there the rusting begins. I could, I suppose, clean the interiors of caps with naptha, but as no previous customer in many years of pen repair has expressed concern about the cleanliness of the cap interior, I just leave well alone. After all, accumulation of ink in the interior of the cap is of no practical or even aesthetic concern unless one shines a light in there and I'm not sure why anyone would do that.

If you're not happy with the pen I do have a returns policy which is explained on the website.

Best regards,
Deb




The reason I ask is because while I anticipate a restored pen might have a little ink in it from testing after restoring, I wasn't expecting what appeared to be years-worth of dried ink left in the pen that it took forever to flush clearly with just tap. Only way to get it to flush clear was to pull the nib and feed out, rinse the sac, and put the feed into the ultrasonic cleaner to get off the rest of the dried ink that was caked on. Same situation with the inside of the cap which appears to be pretty saturated with old ink (which can become a problem when new ink condensates inside of the cap), which I just simply swabbed out with some q-tips dipped in a little water.

So was curious if at least a proper flush was part of your restoration process.

The nib seems to be firmer closer to a semi-flex and closer to a western fine, but I understand that both sizing and 'degree of flex' is not an exact science and will vary from person to person. Really like the body, just trying to find an ink for this specific nib and feed that will write with my light touch because presently with Salix (which tends to be my default choice of ink when it comes to vintage flex) won't really stroke with my lighter hand especially at the starting strokes.

Will try another ink this weekend and re-test, if I can't get it working with my style of writing I'll probably send it off to NibSmith.com.

Sincerely
Karl Blessing


You mentioned that I did not reply to your last email. This is because you made it clear you had come to a conclusion, and therefore nothing would be served by continuing the conversation.

And course now you know it went to Sean since he mentioned he could adjust the nib as well as check out the insides/etc and further restore what needed to be. And with even the wettest of inks it would not write unless you bore down on it. And I was never talking about water inside the barrel, but inside the sac/feed/nib (since not sure where 'rusting' was coming up). Also is using lighter fluid as a pen cleaning agent commonplace?

I have already explained "where the rusting was coming up". Naptha has its place in fountain pen restoration.

While we can argue about this until the cows come home, and I assure you I am perfectly happy to do so should it prove necessary, I think you have already tacitly admitted your guilt by editing your post to conceal what you had said.

[KBeezie]

While we can argue about this until the cows come home, and I assure you I am perfectly happy to do so should it prove necessary, I think you have already tacitly admitted your guilt by editing your post to conceal what you had said.

Wasn't guilt but just post-agreement that it wasn't necessary to sell, the rest can already be seen in the comments, which already stated the exact same thing I said in the quoted email. What you described is more of a repair than a restoration, get it fixed up enough that it works, but not really "restored", least if that one sample is representative of others.

[Hawk]

I see you took my remarks and fountainpagen's remarks to heart. The removal of the condemming 'history' in your revised first post makes the pen more appealing to a potential purchaser.

[Deb]

I used a reply window which did not work the way I anticipated it would, so firstly I would like to re-state the rest of my comments in the above reply lest they get lost in the quotation blocks.

To your comment: "A day after you posted the facebook post is when you replied. And it was after I had shared photos of the 'new' swan but also my disappointment in the facebook group where you were unnamed, one could put one and one together and thus have been self identified."

Not so - my reply to you and my blog post/Facebook entry are dated 18th December. I really don't know what you are talking about with regard to "the facebook group where you were unnamed". My Facebook I.D. is Goodwriters Pens, and while I belong to a few fountain pen groups, I have not posted to them about you or this pen. I really have difficulty understanding what it is you are trying to say.

To your comment: "It went beyond just having the cap crusted with years old ink (something I would expected to have been swabbed out at least in a restoration)..."

The pen had excellent ink flow. You seem to be the kind of person that is looking for something to object to.

To your comment: "Then I would be out shipping cost both ways for the misrepresentation, and the write sample disappears once a sale has been made apparently on that site. If you were to pull it up again you would see that unless you were extremely heavy handed the results would not be the same as yours and the tipping is not a medium nor is it more than a semi-flex."

That's complete nonsense. I fully refund return postage when a pen is returned for refund, and I refund all postage where pens are returned for further work. As I have previously mentioned in this thread, I save all of my photos - had you wanted to see the writing sample again, you need only have asked. I'm not sure why you would need to see the writing sample again. My site, like many others, removes sold items so that there is no confusion between what is for sale and what is not. That's general practice. Flexibility and nib-width are issues one could argue over all day long. It's not in my interest - or indeed anyone else's, so far as I can see - to lie about them. While everyone's writing pressures will be different, there is nothing "heavy-handed" about my writing, as there is no need to "misrepresent" the pens I sell. I sell all flexibilities.

To your comment: "Also since you bought up the replies. Just for sake of transparency (last email was never replied to), back in mid-december."

I did not quote your emails as it is regarded as bad practice to do so without permission.

You mentioned that I did not reply to your last email. This is because you made it clear you had come to a conclusion, and therefore nothing would be served by continuing the conversation.

I have already explained "where the rusting was coming up". Naptha has its place in fountain pen restoration.

While we can argue about this until the cows come home, and I assure you I am perfectly happy to do so should it prove necessary, I think you have already tacitly admitted your guilt by editing your post to conceal what you had said.

Now on to your latest comment of, "Wasn't guilt but just post-agreement that it wasn't necessary to sell, the rest can already be seen in the comments, which already stated the exact same thing I said in the quoted email. What you described is more of a repair than a restoration, get it fixed up enough that it works, but not really "restored", least if that one sample is representative of others."

You may categorize your motives as you will but it was nonetheless a miserable and vindictive thing to do. It had nothing to do with the sale of your pen. I suspect that had you not met with critical comments from others, what you had originally said would still remain. With regard to your comments about restoration, I explain exactly and precisely on my sales website how I restore my pens. You obviously want the over-restored, polished-to-death rather sad items that you can pick up anywhere.

Last but not least, I have sold more than 2,000 pens from the website (I have no idea how many I sold on eBay prior to that). Yours is the only comment I have ever had - never mind complaints - about ink in the cap.

[KBeezie]

Last but not least, I have sold more than 2,000 pens from the website (I have no idea how many I sold on eBay prior to that). Yours is the only comment I have ever had - never mind complaints - about ink in the cap.

And in the feed and sac that needed to be cleaned since it didn't look like it was before. And most people don't really like to complain, I guess it's a good thing they don't if this is how you will respond to every one of them.

I questioned your restoration methods, you took that to heart more than you should, but at the same time confirmed to me that it's normal to you for a restored pen to have the old ink still in the nib, feed and inner cap where the ink may interact especially if jostled in a shirt pocket, or coming in from a cold day and getting condensated, then you go to write and wonder why your bright blue is going down as an ugly brown or green mixture during the first few seconds.

It was not writing fine because when I got it, it would not write at all with a light-to-normal hand, I would have to treat it hard like a ballpoint to get it writing consistently, and it was much finer than your write sample which in hindsight seems like you have very heavy hands to have it that thick from beginning to end.

[vPro]

Let's just end it here - we really aren't getting anywhere.
I've heard several people recommending Deb, including Cob (from Fpgeeks.com) for her good restorations, great pricing and good after-sales service.

It's sad to see how a sales thread for a pen went on to be a direct attack on the original seller - justified or not, in my opinion this is not the place to put it.

[HughC]

These are very nice pens, I have a number of the 32xx including the 3220. One of my favorite post war English pens, this might encourage me to get one out and use for a while. $120 seems a reasonable price.

Regards
Hugh

[migo984]

I've been reading this thread, including the original, un-edited post.
Just to say that one of the best pens I ever bought (a Waterman W5) came from Goodwriters. I will never let it go. I have bought several more pens from there over the past 2 years. I'm happy with them all. Yes, Deb's pens can, and do, show signs of a sometimes hard past, but the ones I've bought have always been fairly described & excellent value.
Buyers have very different requirements. If you want vintage pens overly-restored to 'Like New' condition, then Goodwriters isn't the place to go. This is made clear on the website. If you like pens that retain character then I don't hesitate to recommend Goodwriters for value-for-money vintage pens.

Ps I too have a 3220. They are great pens.

[KBeezie]

I've been reading this thread, including the original, un-edited post.
Just to say that one of the best pens I ever bought (a Waterman W5) came from Goodwriters. I will never let it go. I have bought several more pens from there over the past 2 years. I'm happy with them all. Yes, Deb's pens can, and do, show signs of a sometimes hard past, but the ones I've bought have always been fairly described & excellent value.
Buyers have very different requirements. If you want vintage pens overly-restored to 'Like New' condition, then Goodwriters isn't the place to go. This is made clear on the website. If you like pens that retain character then I don't hesitate to recommend Goodwriters for value-for-money vintage pens.

Ps I too have a 3220. They are great pens.

Which is besides the reason why I couldn't use it (ie: Nib not writing unless you bear down on it, and not anything like the write sample shown). I already know that some people do not polish because they want to retain the original aesthetic and that was never a complaint. But I do expect a restored pen to be 'clean' and free of old ink on the inside (on the inside of the sac/nib/feed where ink makes contact, not inside of the barrel which she doesn't seem to understand) especially where I'm going to be putting ink.

[migo984]

I've been reading this thread, including the original, un-edited post.
Just to say that one of the best pens I ever bought (a Waterman W5) came from Goodwriters. I will never let it go. I have bought several more pens from there over the past 2 years. I'm happy with them all. Yes, Deb's pens can, and do, show signs of a sometimes hard past, but the ones I've bought have always been fairly described & excellent value.
Buyers have very different requirements. If you want vintage pens overly-restored to 'Like New' condition, then Goodwriters isn't the place to go. This is made clear on the website. If you like pens that retain character then I don't hesitate to recommend Goodwriters for value-for-money vintage pens.

Ps I too have a 3220. They are great pens.

Which is besides the reason why I couldn't use it (ie: Nib not writing unless you bear down on it, and not anything like the write sample shown). I already know that some people do not polish because they want to retain the original aesthetic and that was never a complaint. But I do expect a restored pen to be 'clean' and free of old ink on the inside (on the inside of the sac/nib/feed where ink makes contact, not inside of the barrel which she doesn't seem to understand) especially where I'm going to be putting ink.

As you thought it acceptable to include your dissatisfaction with Goodwriters in your original ad, I thought it acceptable to provide an alternative experience. As I said, the 3220 is a fine pen. I hope you manage to sell yours to a new owner who'll appreciate it.

[KBeezie]

As you thought it acceptable to include your dissatisfaction with Goodwriters in your original ad, I thought it acceptable to provide an alternative experience. As I said, the 3220 is a fine pen. I hope you manage to sell yours to a new owner who'll appreciate it.

Hopefully, I already have these two:

http://i.imgur.com/edXO8qi.jpg

http://pens.kbeezie.com/content/public/upload/swan205uncapped_0_o.jpg

Which covers my Flex fine, and Semi-Flex extra-fine, but was hoping for a Flex medium to form the trio.

[Deb]

Yeah, yeah, Karl. If you say it often enough it might become true. You're a vindictive idiot and I'm done with you.

[RayCornett]

...

[RayCornett]

Yeah, yeah, Karl. If you say it often enough it might become true. You're a vindictive idiot and I'm done with you.
And such comments, true or not, are why many of us now know not to deal with you in any way. What a serious lack of professionalism, Deb. You could handle this situation so much better without resorting to name calling and such. Im glad im done with *you*before I ever ordered......I fully expect to be one of your targets now, too. Go ahead, throw me all the Scottish fire you got. Being part Scottish myself I can take it and it'll only make you look worse in the eyes of people who have or planned on giving you business......

[Jon Szanto]

And such comments, true or not, are why many of us now know not to deal with you in any way. What a serious lack of professionalism, Deb. You could handle this situation so much better without resorting to name calling and such. Im glad im done with *you*before I ever ordered......I fully expect to be one of your targets now, too. Go ahead, throw me all the Scottish fire you got. Being part Scottish myself I can take it and it'll only make you look worse in the eyes of people who have or planned on giving you business......

Please. That is just stupid.

If one reads from the beginning of the thread - and, OF COURSE, now we don't have the egregious calling-out of Goodwriters by Karl, since he edited it out - you can see that everything up to that last response has been professional. For you to have not done business with her and then go on a rant like this comes off as incredibly immature. One simply assumes it has to do with your own business practices and connections.

There is a schism in the pen restoration world, and it exists between those who prefer a vintage pen to retain a sense of it's age, and those who want a pen to look newer-than-new. It has been discussed ad nauseum and I won't do it again. It was sub-par for Karl to pull this stunt in a sales pitch, and clearly could have been dealt with better, EVEN IF he found reason to be dissatisfied. Frankly, I don't imagine there will be a significant down-tick in business, as most respondents indicate. Not to mention they'll look at the source of the rant: who is looking worse in the "eyes of people" now?

[penwash]

Yeah, yeah, Karl. If you say it often enough it might become true. You're a vindictive idiot and I'm done with you.
And such comments, true or not, are why many of us now know not to deal with you in any way. What a serious lack of professionalism, Deb. You could handle this situation so much better without resorting to name calling and such. Im glad im done with *you*before I ever ordered......I fully expect to be one of your targets now, too. Go ahead, throw me all the Scottish fire you got. Being part Scottish myself I can take it and it'll only make you look worse in the eyes of people who have or planned on giving you business......

Ray, to be fair, we should also consider the first response from Deb (right below Karl's first post).
Would you respond that way if professionalism is not in you?

[Deb]

No, not at all, Ray. And lest you continue to err, I was the original target. And I'm Pennsylvanian.

Your willingness to jump into a fight that has nothing to do with you is a little strange, to say the least. Could be you're a bit odd, or maybe you have a dog in this fight that you're keeping quiet about.

[KBeezie]

Ps, I never once complained about its external appearance or lack of polishing.

My complaint in a nutshell was :
1) nib was not what was described (semi flex fine instead of flex medium)
2) nib would not write unless I press firm while writing.
3) years old worth of ink that took forever to flush out of the feed and sac and was evident in the inner cap where it could contact ink thru condensation.

I was well aware the external appearance would be more or less original.

[Hawk]

Ps, I never once complained about its external appearance or lack of polishing.

My complaint in a nutshell was :
1) nib was not what was described (semi flex fine instead of flex medium)
2) nib would not write unless I press firm while writing.
3) years old worth of ink that took forever to flush out of the feed and sac and was evident in the inner cap where it could contact ink thru condensation.

I was well aware the external appearance would be more or less original.

1) Subjective
2) Gosh, I would not of pressed down excessively on the nib to make it write. I believe flex nibs can be sprung doing this. I would try something else. You know what to do to make a sluggish starting pen write.
3) Exaggeration, 'took forever', sounds like a teenager. If it was forever, you would still be flushing the pen.

[KBeezie]

Ps, I never once complained about its external appearance or lack of polishing.

My complaint in a nutshell was :
1) nib was not what was described (semi flex fine instead of flex medium)
2) nib would not write unless I press firm while writing.
3) years old worth of ink that took forever to flush out of the feed and sac and was evident in the inner cap where it could contact ink thru condensation.

I was well aware the external appearance would be more or less original.

1) Subjective
2) Gosh, I would not of pressed down excessively on the nib to make it write. I believe flex nibs can be sprung doing this. I would try something else. You know what to do to make a sluggish starting pen write.
3) Exaggeration, 'took forever', sounds like a teenager. If it was forever, you would still be flushing the pen.

1) indeed, but it didn't match the write sample on the website.

2) hence why I considered it non-working at the time, it's not normal to have to bear down on the nib constantly to write it should just write by its own weight.

3) obviously but if it takes 2 hours to flush a flush a pen before it stops being a dark black/blue that certainly feels like forever. Then some more when using diluted pen flush to finally get it clear. A restored pen wouldn't have that much dried and caked ink the feed and sac. (plus even you would know it's figurative if I don't add 'literally' in front)

Is there a point to the nitpick? I updated with the "Ps..." because Jon and others made it sound as if I was merely complaining about aesthetics which I was not, since I'm used to original aesthetics with what I get from Rick Kranz who doesn't Polish his pens, but they are flushed and clean and writing as expected.

[RayCornett]

Yeah, yeah, Karl. If you say it often enough it might become true. You're a vindictive idiot and I'm done with you.
And such comments, true or not, are why many of us now know not to deal with you in any way. What a serious lack of professionalism, Deb. You could handle this situation so much better without resorting to name calling and such. Im glad im done with *you*before I ever ordered......I fully expect to be one of your targets now, too. Go ahead, throw me all the Scottish fire you got. Being part Scottish myself I can take it and it'll only make you look worse in the eyes of people who have or planned on giving you business......

Ray, to be fair, we should also consider the first response from Deb (right below Karl's first post).
Would you respond that way if professionalism is not in you?

If professionalism is part of you it doesn't diminnish just because you get upset. Controlling that is a big part of professionalism.

[Hawk]

Is there a point to the nitpick?

I don't know, you are qualified to answer that.

[RayCornett]

I see at least a couple mentions where people say Karl is complaining about the finish/exterior of the pen when it arrived. Reread his post. He is not.

[RayCornett]

No, not at all, Ray. And lest you continue to err, I was the original target. And I'm Pennsylvanian.

Your willingness to jump into a fight that has nothing to do with you is a little strange, to say the least. Could be you're a bit odd, or maybe you have a dog in this fight that you're keeping quiet about.

I can only go by the location listed in your profile which is Scotland. As for you feeling that me jumping into a fight that does not involve me,,,,,if you feel that way about me tell the same thing to your backup who has done the same thing :)
Good day. I have reached my drama limit for the day.

[fountainpagan]

I have never bought anything from Deb, and have nothing against Kbeezie, despite my ironic response (my way of saying I was slightly chocked).

My intervening was that the comment that was removed was not correct. If one has anything against a dealer, then one must deal directly with her / him. If at the end of the discussion satisfaction is still not acquired, then you open a post:a separate post.
But to use the grives or rancors against a seller as a selling argumentary is vile.

The pen is beautiful but, somehow, it has lost its charm, even if fully restored.

By the Way - a writing sample is only indicatory of the way the pen can write. Many variables are involved (angle, pression, ink) which can significantly vary the way the nib writes.

I have 2 pens I consider semi-flex because I pressure quite hard when writting, and can achieve a very nice line variation with them. My best friend is incapable of having the slightest flex with both of them. If I were to sell these pens (which I will not), and describe them as semi-flex, and someone as my best friend bought it from me, I would be called a cheater, in the end!!

[Jon Szanto]

To be clear, I may very well have given the impression in my comments that I thought Karl was unhappy with the exterior of the pen. That, however, was not my intention nor my belief.

I used an analogy of the continuum of current pen restoration stances, from the least invasive to completely invasive. I did so by making reference to preserving the vintage character, all the way to gleaming polish and making an old pen look new. In doing so, it may have made it seem like that was another thing that Karl was upset with: that the exterior was not polished to his liking.

I never felt that was his opinion, and don't know. He is clear in his indication that he knows the difference, and can be ok either way, depending on the situation. The faults Karl found were not with appearance but with function and cleaning, and if it seemed that I was adding the surface restoration to the mix, I apologize. It was unclear, and now more that one person (including Karl) seem to think it was implied.

Beyond that, I have no corrections. An unfortunate situation all around, as far as I am concerned.

[Jon Szanto]

As for you feeling that me jumping into a fight that does not involve me,,,,,if you feel that way about me tell the same thing to your backup who has done the same thing

Dog, I had commented in the thread before she even replied, and the only reason you don't see it is that it didn't make a lot of sense after Karl went back and edited out his disparagement of Deb in his very first post. I've been more upset by his behavior than feeling like I needed to defend anyone else.

[KBeezie]

Sold.