Parker 51 won't leak...

[fountainpenkid]

....and it is bliss! No matter what I do, it performs flawlessly. My half-decade-old quest for an unleakable pen is complete! What other pens, from your experience, behave this way? For me, the answer is none, although the Pelikan P1 came close.

[Farmboy]

I hope it doesn't take you another 5 years to get another one.

[pajaro]

How did the other pens leak?

[fountainpenkid]

How did the other pens leak?

For the most part, in the normal ways pens do...burping from heat as the pen sits in one's pocket, expelling ink into the inner cap after a drop, spewing tiny droplets after a small drop from hand to page...

[pajaro]

How did the other pens leak?

For the most part, in the normal ways pens do...burping from heat as the pen sits in one's pocket, expelling ink into the inner cap after a drop, spewing tiny droplets after a small drop from hand to page...

Any pen will do all that.

[fountainpenkid]

How did the other pens leak?

For the most part, in the normal ways pens do...burping from heat as the pen sits in one's pocket, expelling ink into the inner cap after a drop, spewing tiny droplets after a small drop from hand to page...

Any pen will do all that.

Pretty much, except for pens with ink shutoff valves. The "51" of course can, but what I'm saying is at least for me it is remarkably resistant to these things.

[fountainpenkid]

Update to clarify: as of this posting, I've owned 4 Parker "51" aerometrics: 1 "special," 2 standard lustraloy models, and my current modified "51" flighter. I did generally have good pocket-performance with all of them, but the normal heat-induced burping still happened if they were left in my pocket for extended periods at the beginning and end of a fill. When I complained about this to Brad Torelli, the master penmaker who sooped-up my flighter, he gave some very good advice: after you've filled the pen completely (when a squeeze of the pressure bar no longer creates bubbles), squeeze out some ink with a half-to-full squeeze of the bar and release quickly. This draws air into the collector, allowing it to take up ink pushed into it. Using this technique, I've had no burping whatsoever, even after hours of body-heat exposure. It makes sense, as the pen in this state has two safeguards: the double-wall insulation provided by the filling system and barrel and the spare surface area of a not-fully-saturated collector. Pen manufacturers like Pelikan actually instruct this method of filling ( to paraphrase, "twist out 3 drops or so, then retract piston again"), and it makes sense.

[Farmboy]

Update to clarify: as of this posting, I've owned 4 Parker "51" aerometrics: 1 "special," 2 standard lustraloy models, and my current modified "51" flighter. I did generally have good pocket-performance with all of them, but the normal heat-induced burping still happened if they were left in my pocket for extended periods at the beginning and end of a fill. When I complained about this to Brad Torelli, the master penmaker who sooped-up my flighter, he gave some very good advice: after you've filled the pen completely (when a squeeze of the pressure bar no longer creates bubbles), squeeze out some ink with a half-to-full squeeze of the bar and release quickly. This draws air into the collector, allowing it to take up ink pushed into it. Using this technique, I've had no burping whatsoever, even after hours of body-heat exposure. It makes sense, as the pen in this state has two safeguards: the double-wall insulation provided by the filling system and barrel and the spare surface area of a not-fully-saturated collector. Pen manufacturers like Pelikan actually instruct this method of filling ( to paraphrase, "twist out 3 drops or so, then retract piston again"), and it makes sense.


Essentially what Parker said to do. Go figure.

[Jon Szanto]

I'm happy for you, fountainpenkid. There is far too little good news in the world these days.

[fountainpenkid]

Update to clarify: as of this posting, I've owned 4 Parker "51" aerometrics: 1 "special," 2 standard lustraloy models, and my current modified "51" flighter. I did generally have good pocket-performance with all of them, but the normal heat-induced burping still happened if they were left in my pocket for extended periods at the beginning and end of a fill. When I complained about this to Brad Torelli, the master penmaker who sooped-up my flighter, he gave some very good advice: after you've filled the pen completely (when a squeeze of the pressure bar no longer creates bubbles), squeeze out some ink with a half-to-full squeeze of the bar and release quickly. This draws air into the collector, allowing it to take up ink pushed into it. Using this technique, I've had no burping whatsoever, even after hours of body-heat exposure. It makes sense, as the pen in this state has two safeguards: the double-wall insulation provided by the filling system and barrel and the spare surface area of a not-fully-saturated collector. Pen manufacturers like Pelikan actually instruct this method of filling ( to paraphrase, "twist out 3 drops or so, then retract piston again"), and it makes sense.


Essentially what Parker said to do. Go figure.

Does it say that in paper instructions? If so, I wish they had written it on the sac guard itself.

[Jon Szanto]

Essentially what Parker said to do. Go figure.

Does it say that in paper instructions? If so, I wish they had written it on the sac guard itself.

Well, first off: I'm sure a person could spend a lifetime just collecting the pen guides and what we now call "user manuals" (formerly: instructions) from even just one maker. But a good place to start is a large collection right here (http://penhero.com/PenGallery/Library/UserGuides.htm) on Jim Mamoulides' PenHero. There are 3 (that I counted) sets of instructions for the 51.

Ahem. However, in reading those, and some earlier Duofold literature, I didn't see anything related to the expelling of a couple drops of ink. I mean, I've known about that, but for me it has just been from other users. Perhaps Farmboy has an official source document where Parker indicated this?

[fountainpenkid]

Essentially what Parker said to do. Go figure.

Does it say that in paper instructions? If so, I wish they had written it on the sac guard itself.

Well, first off: I'm sure a person could spend a lifetime just collecting the pen guides and what we now call "user manuals" (formerly: instructions) from even just one maker. But a good place to start is a large collection right here (http://penhero.com/PenGallery/Library/UserGuides.htm) on Jim Mamoulides' PenHero. There are 3 (that I counted) sets of instructions for the 51.

Ahem. However, in reading those, and some earlier Duofold literature, I didn't see anything related to the expelling of a couple drops of ink. I mean, I've known about that, but for me it has just been from other users. Perhaps Farmboy has an official source document where Parker indicated this?

Thanks for the link. I actually do see similar instructions as an 'additional precaution' for 'experienced fliers' in the 1949 instructions (http://penhero.com/PenGallery/Library/Parker51_c1949.htm): "Before boarding, expel 6 or 8 drops of ink by gently squeezing filler bar. Carry pen point-up until cruising altitude is reached." While they specified this only for flying, the underlying physics makes clear that they could have just as easily said, "for hot climates or long pocket-storage...".

[Jon Szanto]

Thanks for the link. I actually do see similar instructions as an 'additional precaution' for 'experienced fliers' in the 1949 instructions (http://penhero.com/PenGallery/Library/Parker51_c1949.htm): "Before boarding, expel 6 or 8 drops of ink by gently squeezing filler bar. Carry pen point-up until cruising altitude is reached." While they specified this only for flying, the underlying physics makes clear that they could have just as easily said, "for hot climates or long pocket-storage...".

Good catch! I'm one of those fortunate people who doesn't own any clothes with long pockets.

[Chrissy]

Instructions on filling Montblanc piston fillers also say to expel a few drops of ink back into the bottle after filling.
I've never had one leak, but I never carry pens in a pocket either. :)

[stub]

I have had good luck with Japanese pens not leaking or burping and decent cap seals all around to boot.

Another major reason why, despite being a major Sheaffer nerd and generally vintage junky, it's modern Japanese pens that often ride in the dress shirt pocket. (3776, Pilot 912, Sailor Pro Gear).

When I fill, I always expel 3 drops back in the bottle. Helps clear the flooding of the feed/section/collector and helps start the air/ink exchange.

I never got this mania for absolutely filling pens to the absolute tippy top the way everyone shows filling vacs on youtube. If the pen is that jammed full the section can be flodded and the ink flow starts off too slowly after that has excess has cleared. I like to have a little air in the resevoir and a nice clear section. You still plenty of ink but less danger for your shirt.

[FredRydr]

I agree with the reputation of the reliability of the Parker 51, which I've assumed has much to do with its feed design. I have two at the moment. But to paraphrase the many comments about Japanese motorcycles made by of fans of British bikes, "They're boring." Once set, they never need constant maintenance, adjustment, love and attention. Instead, they just hum right along. What's the fun in never having to get your hands dirty as you fix your ride (your pen) by the roadside?

On the other hand, maybe you're right. Removing ink from fingers or breaking pen parts is kinda a PITA.

Fred

[Farmboy]

Likewise the last press of the plunger on a vac filled 51 you should remove the pen from the ink before releasing the rod for the return stroke.

Parker spent considerable time and effort devising ways to clear the collector at the end of the fill to prevent flooding and drips. Sometimes I think it is because no one knew how to fill them ...

[stub]

Likewise the last press of the plunger on a vac filled 51 you should remove the pen from the ink before releasing the rod for the return stroke.

Parker spent considerable time and effort devising ways to clear the collector at the end of the fill to prevent flooding and drips. Sometimes I think it is because no one knew how to fill them ...

I once owned, for a few years, a Vac demonstrator. That was educational. & indeed the holding of the last pump does mostly clear out the collector nicely.

[pajaro]

Likewise the last press of the plunger on a vac filled 51 you should remove the pen from the ink before releasing the rod for the return stroke.

Parker spent considerable time and effort devising ways to clear the collector at the end of the fill to prevent flooding and drips. Sometimes I think it is because no one knew how to fill them ...

I once owned, for a few years, a Vac demonstrator. That was educational. & indeed the holding of the last pump does mostly clear out the collector nicely.

I believe this works, because enough experienced people have written about it. It does seem counterintuitive, though, and I wish I had taken the opportunity to buy a vac 51 demonstrator when I had the opportunity several years ago. It seems that , after filling these pens up and then squirting the ink back out, there's never much in the pen. It's fun pushing the plunger, though.

[stub]

I believe this works, because enough experienced people have written about it. It does seem counterintuitive, though, and I wish I had taken the opportunity to buy a vac 51 demonstrator when I had the opportunity several years ago. It seems that , after filling these pens up and then squirting the ink back out, there's never much in the pen. It's fun pushing the plunger, though.

The thing to keep in mind is that the vacuumatic system is very inefficient. It expells air (& ink) on the downpump and when you release the pump it sucks up ink, but this interchange happens quite slowly compared to say, the "detachable vacumatic converter" we all call the Con70, which can be filled entirely in three pumps.

What I learned when having a demonstator is just how ineffecient this air/ink exchange is and how it really does take a lot of pumps to fill the pen. Depending on your pen, how tightly it is put together etc. how far the breather tube reaches into the resevoir, etc. a Parker vacumatic can take as many as 10, 12 15 pumps to fill completely. As it gets to about half full it is now letting out almost as much as it is sucking back in.

When you hold down that last pump you really are not letting all that much ink out as the vac pump works so slowly. When you get to that last stroke it is mostly shooting ink out the collector beause the pen is now full and isn't going to get any fuller. It will just spit out as much ink as it sucks in. 102 pumps of a vac doesn't get it any more full than 15 does. Full is full, that is, the ink level is now on par with the tube. It wont fill beyond that.

Now you downpump and you have pushed some ink out the front of the pen. It isn't a lot. Again, letting go is only going to suck in the exact amount of ink you just dispelled so now when you free the nib from the ink and let go it sucks in air which takes whatever is in the front of the pen and sucks it into the resevoir. Mostly, though not 100%, b/c your collector still is usually a little bit flodded, but usually the capillary action that occurs when you wipe the nib and section clean with a tissue is enough to get rid of some of that and your collector is now really pretty clear.

[FredRydr]

A wish: I don't want to own them, but I wish someone would bring to a pen show a row of demonstrator pens that reflect all the major filling systems that we know and love or hate. They don't have to be originals; clear repros would be great. I'd just like to experience each in similar fashion to stub's description in the previous post.

Fred

[pajaro]

Thanks to Stub and FredRydr for the last two posts. I have pumped the Vacumatic and the 51Vacs that I have ten, fifteen, twenty times. The 51 Vacs seem to get in a good amount of ink, but the Vacumatic fairly little. Of course, I resacked it myself, so I probably have a fool for a client.

The idea of someone collecting demonstrators and demonstrating them at a pen show is a good one. I have found I like demonstrators, particularly Pelikan M200 demonstrators. Maybe someone will become interested in this project.