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NeoGeo
January 22nd, 2013, 09:19 AM
Hi,

As this is a fountain pen site I thought you would be the best to ask for advise.
Over the years I've tried a couple of fountain pens (Parker and Shaeffer), but never really got on with them.
I like the feel of a quality pen, but just don't seem to be able to write well with a fountain pen.
I noticed that Franklin-Christoph do some very nice looking pens, available as fountain pen or roller ball, of which I like the look of the model 29 and the 27.
Is it worth spending the money on a roller ball version, or would it be no better than a cheaper version from a general stationer?
Do you think it would be worth giving the fountain pen version a try? or would I find it the same as Parker/Shaeffer fountain pens?

Thanks

NeoGeo

Bogon07
January 22nd, 2013, 02:38 PM
NeoGeo, Hi and welcome to the forum.

Interesting question.

The actual writing of the rollerball or ballpoint will depend on the quality of the refill regardless of the pen body. You could get a marvellous Parker or Franklin-Christoph with a crappy refill which could be greatly improved with a different refill. Check out what sort of refills are available for the pens you are interested in...some liquid inks will give an almost fountain pen experience and some gel inks are extremely smooth. The real problem with the refills will be the limited colour range compared to fountain pen inks unless you try some Japanese gel ink pens although most of those are not refillable.

A cheaper version may or maynot write as well but the feel of the pen could enhance the pleasure of using it.
How much you are willing to spend depends on how much you value the aesthetics of a perhaps more expensive pen.

The main thing is to find what suits you best.

KrazyIvan
January 22nd, 2013, 02:41 PM
I am biased towards fountain pens. While I have some rollerball pens, I don't think I would consider purchasing anymore.

Bogon07
January 22nd, 2013, 03:05 PM
I am biased towards fountain pens. While I have some rollerball pens, I don't think I would consider purchasing anymore.

You can never have enough Hi-Tec Cs, they come in so many colours and sizes.

fountainpenkid
January 22nd, 2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah...the refill does matter alot. I think fountain pens are a lot more fun though. Better writers too.

snedwos
January 22nd, 2013, 04:01 PM
I do of course prefer fountain pens, followed, weirdly, by regular ballpoints, with rollerballs at the bottom of the pile. But my father loves them, so ymmv.

Bottled ink will of course give you much more choice, which is where, for the same price as a FC model 02 (which is one of the very prettiest pens on the market right now) you can get a Visconti Rembrandt Ecoroller. But you are then stuck with the tip they give you, wihch is one of the advantages of the regular rollerball -- if you don't like how it writes, you can shop around for a better refill.

I wouldn't dismiss fountain pens yet, though -- how nice a pen is to write with depends on so many things. Size, shape, weight (just as with any pen). There is also the nib. I, for example don't really get on with fine nibs, but really really enjoy stubs and italics. And if what you tried was a Parker Vector, then of course you didn't get on with it, they're horrible, nasty little things!

fountainpenkid
January 22nd, 2013, 04:22 PM
And if what you tried was a Parker Vector, then of course you didn't get on with it, they're horrible, nasty little things!
...most of the time ;)

I think many companies like pelikan, twsbi, edison FC...etc. let you swap nibs, or buy replacement nibs.

KrazyIvan
January 22nd, 2013, 04:25 PM
You can never have enough Hi-Tec Cs, they come in so many colours and sizes.
I gave all my Hi-Tec-C's to a coworker.

Bogon07
January 22nd, 2013, 07:35 PM
. And if what you tried was a Parker Vector, then of course you didn't get on with it, they're horrible, nasty little things!

Aw they're not that bad. Cheap and functional. We have three at home. The Medium is nicer than the Fine nib.


KrazyIvan

I gave all my Hi-Tec-C's to a coworker.
Lucky Co-worker.Probably not the most comfortable pens to use over an extended period of time but the fine points 0.38mm are very smooth the write with and some of the ink colours are amazing (like fountain pen inks but less variable).

snedwos
January 22nd, 2013, 07:44 PM
Aw they're not that bad. Cheap and functional. We have three at home. The Medium is nicer than the Fine nib.

I just can't find a comfortable place to hold them. Either I get inky fingers or the barrel cuts into me.

NeoGeo
January 23rd, 2013, 03:46 AM
Thanks for the replies..

Still not sure what to do.
While the aesthetics of the pen are important, my main criteria would be feel and writing performance.
I will email Franklin-Christoph and see what refills their roller-ball pens take.
Still very tempted to give a fountain pen a try, but it's quite a bit of money to spend to find out I still have trouble writing with it.
The previous fountain pens I have used felt scratchy to write with and didn't flow well (possibly had too fine a tip), so would going for a medium sized tip be better for me?, can the tips be easily changed?
Would it be possible for someone to recommend a make and model of fountain pen that I could try that's not to expensive, before deciding on the more expensive pen, or is personal preferences going to make a recommendation to difficult?
Ideally I could do with going to a specialist shop to try some quality pens, but unfortunately there are none anywhere near where I live.

fountainpenkid
January 23rd, 2013, 04:46 AM
Thanks for the replies..

Still not sure what to do.
While the aesthetics of the pen are important, my main criteria would be feel and writing performance.
I will email Franklin-Christoph and see what refills their roller-ball pens take.
Still very tempted to give a fountain pen a try, but it's quite a bit of money to spend to find out I still have trouble writing with it.
The previous fountain pens I have used felt scratchy to write with and didn't flow well (possibly had too fine a tip), so would going for a medium sized tip be better for me?, can the tips be easily changed?
Would it be possible for someone to recommend a make and model of fountain pen that I could try that's not to expensive, before deciding on the more expensive pen, or is personal preferences going to make a recommendation to difficult?
Ideally I could do with going to a specialist shop to try some quality pens, but unfortunately there are none anywhere near where I live.

I believe Franklin Christoph nibs are swap-able (you just unscrew the nib). I would reccomend the TWSBI 580 or maybe the mini. These pens give you a great filling system, swap-able nibs, and they seem to be getting more consistent with the nib quality. Maybe you do want a medium if you feel a fine is scratchy, or maybe your nib actually was just a scratchy nib in the first place.

inky
January 23rd, 2013, 06:22 AM
NeoGeo,

If you are interested in trying out fountain pens again I would suggest buying a Lamy Safari with a Medium nib. They can be had for around $30. The wonderful thing about the Safari is that they nibs are swappable and cost only about $15. If you don't like the Medium nib you can always try a stub or any other point size without having to ditch the whole pen. The grip section on the Lamy is not for everyone but it's how alot of folks start out for the low intro price. Once you find a nib size you like, then you can move up to a much nicer pen with more of an idea of what nib size you would like.

As far as rollerball/ballpen goes, I would try and find something that takes the parker size refills. They are very widley available and you can convert a ballpoint to a rollerball and back with them. I have a Pelikan K205 with a Monteverde Gel Rollerball in blue-black that writes amazingly smooth. The original ink that came with the pen was a Pelikan Ballpoint refil that was a bit scratchy. I usually perfer Ballpoints to Rollerballs but the smoothness of the Gel refill really surprised me.

Good hunting and welcome to the forum!

ransky
January 23rd, 2013, 09:17 AM
Hi all, breaking my lurker mode, appreciate all the wonderful folks here -
The Bexley Cities line of pens is a swappable fountain pen/rollerball pen. I don't have this particular pen, but I have several Bexleys and they are great pens. If you order from Richard Binder (Richardspens.com), you can be sure the nib will write well (no affliliation - just a satisfied customer).
Franklin-Christoph nibs do screw in/out. F-C makes very nice pens as well and their customer service is top notch in my experience. Best wishes to the OP with whatever you choose.

manoeuver
January 23rd, 2013, 09:44 AM
love my F-C pens. go to a pen show where they're exhibiting and you'll be able to try all their nib options.

snedwos
January 23rd, 2013, 10:26 AM
NeoGeo,

If you are interested in trying out fountain pens again I would suggest buying a Lamy Safari with a Medium nib. They can be had for around $30. The wonderful thing about the Safari is that they nibs are swappable and cost only about $25. If you don't like the Medium nib you can always try a stub or any other point size without having to ditch the whole pen. The grip section on the Lamy is not for everyone but it's how alot of folks start out for the low intro price. Once you find a nib size you like, then you can move up to a much nicer pen with more of an idea of what nib size you would like.

As far as rollerball/ballpen goes, I would try and find something that takes the parker size refills. They are very widley available and you can convert a ballpoint to a rollerball and back with them. I have a Pelikan K205 with a Monteverde Gel Rollerball in blue-black that writes amazingly smooth. The original ink that came with the pen was a Pelikan Ballpoint refil that was a bit scratchy. I usually perfer Ballpoints to Rollerballs but the smoothness of the Gel refill really surprised me.

Good hunting and welcome to the forum!

$25?!?! Wow! I paid around €5 for each of mine...

inky
January 23rd, 2013, 10:54 AM
$25?!?! Wow! I paid around €5 for each of mine...

Oops! Yep, that should have been a 15 not 25. Looks like the Goulets have them for 13 right now. I adjusted my orignal post to reflect the price diffrence.

fountainpenkid
January 23rd, 2013, 01:23 PM
Hi all, breaking my lurker mode, appreciate all the wonderful folks here -
The Bexley Cities line of pens is a swappable fountain pen/rollerball pen. I don't have this particular pen, but I have several Bexleys and they are great pens. If you order from Richard Binder (Richardspens.com), you can be sure the nib will write well (no affliliation - just a satisfied customer).
Franklin-Christoph nibs do screw in/out. F-C makes very nice pens as well and their customer service is top notch in my experience. Best wishes to the OP with whatever you choose.

Welcome!

+1 on the cities. Bexley seems to have a great reputation, and the cities line allows you to swap the section to change writing mode.

Bogon07
January 23rd, 2013, 03:04 PM
$25?!?! Wow! I paid around €5 for each of mine...

$25AUD is the Lamy nib price in Australia unless you are after a gold plated one in which as you can add atleast another $100.
As you can see from this it is cheaper to order a new Safari from eBay Singapore/Malaysia for around $22-23 and get a pen and converter (which is another $9.45 here) as well as a nib.

NeoGeo as Inky says the grip section may not be for everyone. The Lamy Nexx has a similar but more rounded section but will still take the same nibs and if you prefer a round section then the Studio or tubular pens like the Logo, Linear, Pur & CP1 also use the same nibs.

snedwos
January 23rd, 2013, 04:24 PM
You know, sometimes, I'm reminded that living in Europe is actually pretty great... :D

Anyway, another option is the Nexx or Nexx M .. same price (roughy) as the Safari, same nibs, and a much more forgiving section. More of a Marmite aesthetic (love it or hate it), but if you don't mind a pen that looks like a kid's school pen, it's and excellent choice.

I do often wish they made the Safari FP with the same grip section as the Safari rollerballs...

Bogon07
January 23rd, 2013, 06:28 PM
You know, sometimes, I'm reminded that living in Europe is actually pretty great... :D

Anyway, another option is the Nexx or Nexx M .. same price (roughy) as the Safari, same nibs, and a much more forgiving section. More of a Marmite aesthetic (love it or hate it), but if you don't mind a pen that looks like a kid's school pen, it's and excellent choice.

I do often wish they made the Safari FP with the same grip section as the Safari rollerballs...

Do you mean the rollerball's grip isn't as wedge shaped as the fountainpen ? It seems to look straighter.

For the real kid's school pen look there is the Lamy ABC which has another variation on the Safari grip. I just could not bring myself to buy one of these wooden & rubber/plastic pens although it does have the beginners nib (A or MK)

fpquest
January 23rd, 2013, 06:35 PM
I have 5 F-C fountain pens so safe to say I like them. I find them to have good flow all the way down to extra-fine nibs. But others have suggested other FPs that cost less and also write well so I wouldn't spend the money for the F-C until you're sure. I haven't used their rollerballs so can't comment on the ink. But the build quality of the pens is top-notch. The FP nibs are replaceable but can't necessarily be swapped between different FP models.

fountainpenkid
January 23rd, 2013, 07:32 PM
I have 5 F-C fountain pens so safe to say I like them. I find them to have good flow all the way down to extra-fine nibs. But others have suggested other FPs that cost less and also write well so I wouldn't spend the money for the F-C until you're sure. I haven't used their rollerballs so can't comment on the ink. But the build quality of the pens is top-notch. The FP nibs are replaceable but can't necessarily be swapped between different FP models.

I'm just waiting for the day they release a piston filler! ;)

fpquest
January 24th, 2013, 03:37 PM
I'm just waiting for the day they release a piston filler! ;)
One of each please, whatever model they are. I'll start saving now.

snedwos
January 24th, 2013, 03:40 PM
I dunno, none of the FC models I like would work as a piston filler, really. Wrong shape... They'd make pretty decent lever-fillers, though. (02 and desk pen).

fountainpenkid
January 24th, 2013, 05:42 PM
I dunno, none of the FC models I like would work as a piston filler, really. Wrong shape... They'd make pretty decent lever-fillers, though. (02 and desk pen).
Ah. But they make the Colegia and similar pens which would be great candidates for a filling system upgrade!

NeoGeo
January 28th, 2013, 03:43 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies, really appreciate it.
I have decided to give the Lamy Safari a try, as recommended, before splashing out on a more expensive pen.
Purchased the Lamy with a medium nib and a converter for £18.00, and can get the replaceable nibs for £4.50
Not had chance to use it much yet, but so far feels good, although the body of the pen really does look cheap.
I have a feeling before long I will be looking to upgrade.
Cheers

snedwos
January 28th, 2013, 05:10 AM
Congratulations! That is an excellent purchase -- The Safari is an incredible workhorse -- it writes every time, and mine is in good shape even with my abuse... Even though using fountain pens which I care about is making me a lot better, the Safari is still suffering the last dregs of my chewing habit (the shame!), and barely showing it. it's really solid plastic, I'm sure most of my more expensive pens would have fared much worse.

inky
January 28th, 2013, 06:10 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies, really appreciate it.
I have decided to give the Lamy Safari a try, as recommended, before splashing out on a more expensive pen.
Purchased the Lamy with a medium nib and a converter for £18.00, and can get the replaceable nibs for £4.50
Not had chance to use it much yet, but so far feels good, although the body of the pen really does look cheap.
I have a feeling before long I will be looking to upgrade.
Cheers

Nicely done! If you get comfortable with the Lamy nibs, the nibs on the Safari will fit onto the other lamy pens except for the 2000. That gives you some options for a nicer looking pen with writing characteristics you would already be familier with. What I did was use the Safari to learn about the nib widths and then purchaced an Edison in that nib width. I've since bought alot of other pens but the Lamy still is my knock around pen and very smooth.

KrazyIvan
January 28th, 2013, 09:40 AM
Definitely a good choice. My first fountain pen after getting back into them was a Safari in carbon. A very good workhorse that shows you how to hold a pen properly because you really can't hold it any other way.

ink mixer
January 28th, 2013, 08:22 PM
I have been rethinking the first fountain pen recommendation. I realize that the medium Safari makes a lot of sense, but out in the wild I see a lot of handwriting where the miniscules are 1mm or smaller. My mother is a case in point. A medium nib seems far too large, and most people I guess would benefit from a European EF or Japanese F. Most ballpoints and roller balls probably have too big a line width as well. So I guess my first time list would center around: Platinum Plaisir F, Preppy F, Prera F, and Safari EF. Any thoughts? Also, my thoughts are mainly for Americans. Aren't most of the European handwriting models centered around a M nib? I could see for different cultures how a M nib could be more appropriate. Of course, another problem is that F or EF nibs don't exist in retail ships, so most people will never realize that they are an option.

ink mixer
January 28th, 2013, 08:24 PM
Also, I should disclose that I love BB nibs as well as needle points.

snedwos
February 2nd, 2013, 12:35 PM
When I want to write small, I've come to realise that a ballpoint suits me better, since I can control the strokes better with a higher writing angle and pressure. Thus, I now rarely write small!

NeoGeo
February 4th, 2013, 06:13 AM
I have been rethinking the first fountain pen recommendation. ....... So I guess my first time list would center around: Platinum Plaisir F, Preppy F, Prera F, and Safari EF.

Hi Ink MIxer,

I've taken a look at the Platinum Plaisir, and it looks like a nice pen. While searching Amazon for it I came across a pen that looks exactly like it but called "Platingum Plasir" sold directly by Amazon for £8.45. Do you think this is the same pen or a knock off?

Lane
February 4th, 2013, 11:34 AM
Congratulations on the Lamy Safari. That was my first fountain pen and it is a great pen. If you havn't already done so, pick up the Z24 converter and then you can refill the pen with bottled ink of your choice. The Lamy Blue is very pale, in my opinion, and there are more vibrant options out there if that interests you. As ink mixer says, the M on the Lamy seems a little larger than non FP people might expect for a pen. I think a F nib should be fine - although it's all a matter of preference.

As to upgrading, I think someone else mentioned TWSBI. They make great piston filling pens (no cartridges) that I think are a bit of a step up in terms of the complete fountain pen experience. The TWSBI 540 is still available on ebay from TWSBI directly, although the newer 580 will be coming out shortly. The 540 costs $40.

My only reservation about the Plaisir is that is appears to have the platinum preppy nib. I've written with an EF preppy and it was good enough, but I think it is a step down from the Lamy.

snedwos
February 4th, 2013, 12:05 PM
Do you mean the rollerball's grip isn't as wedge shaped as the fountainpen ? It seems to look straighter.

For the real kid's school pen look there is the Lamy ABC which has another variation on the Safari grip. I just could not bring myself to buy one of these wooden & rubber/plastic pens although it does have the beginners nib (A or MK)

The rollerball's grip is more like the Nexx's: threefold rotational symmetry. A sort of rounded triangle.

snedwos
February 4th, 2013, 12:08 PM
I think a F nib should be fine - although it's all a matter of preference.

Well, I certainly wouldn't expect an F nib to be other than fine... xD

Lane
February 4th, 2013, 12:24 PM
Well, I certainly wouldn't expect an F nib to be other than fine... xD

Unless it's a Japanese pen....

[I almost edited that out of the post, but you beat me to the punch ;) ]

ink mixer
February 10th, 2013, 03:06 PM
Sorry for the late reply, but I would just make sure it is not from the British brand Platignum.

manoeuver
February 10th, 2013, 03:40 PM
Idruther have 5 preppies than one plaisir. same guts. same $20.