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LucienPS
July 20th, 2016, 10:12 AM
Hi

I'm new to vintage FP's and have seen a couple of 1930's/40's celluloid pens that I'm thinking of acquiring (not within my means, of course!). One of them, an OMAS Lucens, has a very little ambering on an otherwise predominently blue barrel. Is this something to be worried about? Is the material deteriorating, perhaps? I actually like the effect...

Many thanks,
Lucien

jar
July 20th, 2016, 10:49 AM
Hi Lucien, welcome home. Pull up a stump and set a spell.

Yes, ambering usually shows deterioration and age but can also be many other things. If it is a lever filled pen it is likely cause by the sac outgassing sulphur or long term ink staining. Without much more information it's nearly impossible to tell if it is serious or not. If close physical examination shows cracking or crazing it's likely worrisome.

LucienPS
July 20th, 2016, 10:59 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Jar, and for your view on this. The pen is in Italy and I'm in N Herts, England, so on the tricky side. Given the price, I'll pass and look for something without potential problems. I guess I was hoping it might be just a normal and nothing to be worried about kinda thing :-) It is a very beautiful pen...

jar
July 20th, 2016, 11:10 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Jar, and for your view on this. The pen is in Italy and I'm in N Herts, England, so on the tricky side. Given the price, I'll pass and look for something without potential problems. I guess I was hoping it might be just a normal and nothing to be worried about kinda thing :-) It is a very beautiful pen...

It may well be perfectly normal. Celluloid does amber with age. Look at the window on this Sheaffer OS Balance.

http://www.fototime.com/F7F4DD8FEEB19E0/large.jpg

Originally it would have been nearly clear.

http://www.fototime.com/F82FD14D9AA8B14/large.jpg

You can also see some ambering on this Sheaffer Balance

http://www.fototime.com/7B20DDE5F05AEB0/large.jpg

whichwatch
July 20th, 2016, 04:59 PM
Many of the Omas Blue Lucens and Extra Lucens show a color change where the blue turns a pink/violet color with age. Is this what you are seeing, or are you seeing a darkening of the clear portion?

In either case, the condition more affects appearance than performance. Either would normally decrease the value somewhat in the eyes of collectors. However, these are very desirable and collectible pens, so as always, it is a matter of personal taste and budget.

LucienPS
July 21st, 2016, 02:49 AM
Thanks, whichwatch - PM sent.

AltecGreen
July 21st, 2016, 09:05 AM
The color change of the blue celluloid to a pink/violet is a problem with the modern material made in the 90's.

A vintage pen and vintage celluloid would be very different. The effect on pricing is also different. Does the TC have a picture of what they are referring to or know the exact model of the Lucens they are referring to.

LucienPS
July 21st, 2016, 10:23 AM
It's a mid 1930's one with the deco Hellenic band in green/blue - definitely not modern. About 13cm, mid-sized and priced at E750. I think I'm going to pass on it actually but I have learned a lot from you chaps, as I hope others will have done - thank you very much!

AltecGreen
July 21st, 2016, 09:16 PM
It's a mid 1930's one with the deco Hellenic band in green/blue - definitely not modern. About 13cm, mid-sized and priced at E750. I think I'm going to pass on it actually but I have learned a lot from you chaps, as I hope others will have done - thank you very much!


Now that I have seen pictures of the specific pen you are talking about I can answer your question.

The pen in question is an Omas Lucens. The barrel is actually not completely blue. The Lucens and Extra Lucens were a hit because of the transparent barrel. In between the blue marble colors, the pen originally was transparent areas so you can see the ink level. With age, the clear parts darkened and amber. The clearer the transparent parts on these pens, the more desirable and expensive.

You can check out this post where I show off two of my Omas Lucens (the green version and red version of the same pen although the green is in the larger senior size). In one of the pictures, I lit the back with a flashlight and you can see the transparent areas of the pen.

http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/2141-Vintage-Italian-Pen-series?p=37024&viewfull=1#post37024

LucienPS
July 22nd, 2016, 05:27 AM
Fantastic. Your thread, AG, is inspiring and may prove costly to me! I'm still sorely tempted by the Lucens. I would value advice on possible directions in purchasing a classic Italian celluloid and will post a separate topic soas not to confuse this thread. Again, many thanks.

jar
July 22nd, 2016, 06:57 AM
Fantastic. Your thread, AG, is inspiring and may prove costly to me! I'm still sorely tempted by the Lucens. I would value advice on possible directions in purchasing a classic Italian celluloid and will post a separate topic soas not to confuse this thread. Again, many thanks.

What AltecGreen is pointing out is exactly what I was trying to point out. Many manufacturers used clear sections in celluloid pens as a way to see inside to check ink levels. All of the Parker Vacumatics and Striped Duofolds, The Sheaffer Vacfil Balances and Triumphs, Montblanc and most of the German Piston fillers the Celluloid Pelikans and so many other makers used this feature. In some like those that had an internal sac (lever fillers) it was usually a smaller window that was after the sac but before the section and gave a glimpse at ink as it moved into the feed, in the various vacuum filled pens where the ink was held directly in the body of the pen it was often incorporated into clear sections in the pattern of the body.

If you look at the Sheaffer pictures with the embedded Mother of Pearl you can see it was a spiral of alternating black and clear sections. The Parker Vacumatics were a series of colored and clear stacked disks and the Striped Duofolds were alternating colored and clear vertical sections.

Over time the clear parts ambered and in all cases the less ambered ones are preferred but generally unless there is visible crazing and cracking the ambering is not a functional issue; the pen is not falling apart.


A 1943 Parker Vac with a prewar nib
http://www.fototime.com/AFB727DF85DFC8D/xlarge.jpg

ChrisC
July 22nd, 2016, 08:34 PM
Ambering doesn't bother me on quality vintage celluloid pens, like from Parker, Montblanc, Pelikan , Sheaffer, etc. Anything from the 50s and before. These brands knew what they were doing in making the transparent celluoids.

Omas and Tibaldi transparent celluloids are a whole other story. I would personally never purchase a celluloid pen with clear bits from either brand. They were newbies to the celluloid game because neither had done it for decades when they restarted production in the 90s. The opaque materials are fine, but the transparent ones are, imo, ticking timebombs, waiting to crystallize and become worthless.

Models to watch out for are the Omas Lucens and the Tibaldi Transparente. Stay away...

AltecGreen
July 22nd, 2016, 10:04 PM
Models to watch out for are the Omas Lucens and the Tibaldi Transparente. Stay away...

The pens the TC was talking about were the vintage Lucens and the vintage Transparente. They do not suffer from the problems of their modern namesakes other than the normal ambering. The only exception would be the first generation Omas Extra Lucens from 1937. The original material was so unstable that Omas changed the material within a year creating the 2nd generation Extra Lucens. This has made the first gen Extra Lucens a holy grail among vintage Italian pens.



Your criticism of Omas and Tibaldi is a bit off base since you are talking about the modern pens yet comparing them to vintage pens from other makes. To be fair, neither company made their own celluloid (modern or vintage). Mazzuchelli made much of the 90's material for a lot of pen companies. Also, your criticism seem to imply that they have always had poor celluloid which is far from the case. It is even more ironic that you cite Montblanc when Omas and Montblanc used a lot of the same celluloid in the late 40's and ealry 50's.

ChrisC
July 23rd, 2016, 08:01 PM
Your criticism of Omas and Tibaldi is a bit off base since you are talking about the modern pens yet comparing them to vintage pens from other makes. To be fair, neither company made their own celluloid (modern or vintage). Mazzuchelli made much of the 90's material for a lot of pen companies. Also, your criticism seem to imply that they have always had poor celluloid which is far from the case. It is even more ironic that you cite Montblanc when Omas and Montblanc used a lot of the same celluloid in the late 40's and ealry 50's.

I stand corrected. But yeah I was mostly talking about the 90s stuff.