Searching for Italians...

[LucienPS]

I'm hoping you might help me narrow my search for a special Italian...

I love the vintage Italian look and, of course, celluloid. At the moment at least, I like to use my pens rather than keep them minty and boxed. I have a modern Milord in M and a Paragon in B. Both are very wet but wonderfully smooth, with just a hint of lovely feedback.

However, I’m looking for something special and vintage to use on a daily basis with my Leuchtturm1917 notebooks, which I use for work note taking, task management, etc., at work and at home.

I think the nib needs to be fine, as the Milord M is too broad (as is my Lamy 2000 m). My Pro Gear in medium is about the line width I'd like but is too clean/surgical to feel special. I can write quite quickly, so ink flow needs to keep up.

I haven’t owned a flex nib but I suspect I want my nibs to flex more than they do, if that makes sense. I don’t mean that I’m heavy handed – I just want more line variation and character than seems possible with very rigid nibs.

Ideally, I would like to keep within a brand or two: OMAS/Minerva/Electa, Aurora, and maybe a Columbus. But I’m open to persuasion on others.

In terms of length and girth, the Pro Gear almost feels too short but OK girth-wise, the Milord is bang-on, and the Paragon is almost too large but not quite, and perfect for broad nib writing. (i love the smooth juiciness of that pen!)

In terms of budget, I'm thinking between $500-750 but very happy to spend less! I want a special, high quality working pen, not so much a collector piece.

In terms of celluloid, the Lucens pens I’ve seen have been gorgeous, the arco is stunning, and I like the "solid" brown, green and blue celluloids best. I don’t tend to like the greys, the ringed styles, nor the swirls as much, and I’d much prefer rod celluloid to laminate/sheet.

Does this narrow things down enough for anyone to make any suggestions for what I might look for?!

With many thanks in advance,
LP

[AltecGreen]

I'm hoping you might help me narrow my search for a special Italian...

I love the vintage Italian look and, of course, celluloid. At the moment at least, I like to use my pens rather than keep them minty and boxed. I have a modern Milord in M and a Paragon in B. Both are very wet but wonderfully smooth, with just a hint of lovely feedback.

However, I’m looking for something special and vintage to use on a daily basis with my Leuchtturm1917 notebooks, which I use for work note taking, task management, etc., at work and at home.

I think the nib needs to be fine, as the Milord M is too broad (as is my Lamy 2000 m). My Pro Gear in medium is about the line width I'd like but is too clean/surgical to feel special. I can write quite quickly, so ink flow needs to keep up.

I haven’t owned a flex nib but I suspect I want my nibs to flex more than they do, if that makes sense. I don’t mean that I’m heavy handed – I just want more line variation and character than seems possible with very rigid nibs.

Ideally, I would like to keep within a brand or two: OMAS/Minerva/Electa, Aurora, and maybe a Columbus. But I’m open to persuasion on others.

In terms of length and girth, the Pro Gear almost feels too short but OK girth-wise, the Milord is bang-on, and the Paragon is almost too large but not quite, and perfect for broad nib writing. (i love the smooth juiciness of that pen!)

In terms of budget, I'm thinking between $500-750 but very happy to spend less! I want a special, high quality working pen, not so much a collector piece.

In terms of celluloid, the Lucens pens I’ve seen have been gorgeous, the arco is stunning, and I like the "solid" brown, green and blue celluloids best. I don’t tend to like the greys, the ringed styles, nor the swirls as much, and I’d much prefer rod celluloid to laminate/sheet.

Does this narrow things down enough for anyone to make any suggestions for what I might look for?!

With many thanks in advance,
LP

You need to first deal with size. Using the Milord and Paragon are not the best choices pf pens for size comparisons. There are two versions of each. The pre-2005 bodies which can trace a lineage to the vintage pens in terms of size and shape. They there are the post 2005 re-design pens. You can tell the difference easily because the post 2005 pens are much larger and do not have the classic clip design. The Paragon has a metal section and both pens are super fat.

There are very few vintage pens that even come close to the size of the post 2005 Paragon. The Milord is roughly the size of a senior sized vintage pen albeit much wider. The pre-2005 pens are a good comparison with the vintage pens. The Paragon is roughly the size of most senior sized vintage pens while the Milord is close to the standard size. The Omas Lucens you passed on is roughly the size of the pre-2005 Milord. If you like the size of the post-2005 Milord, it may be difficult to find something vintage with a similar girth.

The next things is filling systems. Vintage pens are often not the best for people who like to change ink every other day. The earliest celluloid pens (late 1920's and early 1930's) are lever or button fillers for the most part. The late 30's to mid-40's you have the transparent barrel pens like the Omas Lucens, Aurora Optima, Tibaldi Trasparente, etc. These often have some plunger like filler. Omas uses the Stantuffo Tufftante for example. These are not great for frequent ink switching. They are great for using one color of ink and then refilling the pen. Piston Fillers become common place starting the mid to late 1940's. Of course, these filling systems co-existed for many years. The styling did change as time passed so if you ike a certain look you don't much of a choice in terms of filling system.

If you never have used a pen with a flex nib, don;t make assumptions. You really will have to try. You seem to have an impression of what a flex nib may do for you but in reality you may have a different opinion once you try one. With that said, flexible nibs were pretty common in Italian pens even late into the fountain pen history (50's and 60's). Not all are wet noodles but semi-flex is common.

Nib sizes run finer in the vintage pens and you will not likely find a pen with a size marking on the nib. None of the vintage pens have any sizes stamped on the nib. If the nibs were sorted for size, it was on the tag or sticker when the pen was new. You'll have to either write with the pen or trust the sizing provided by the seller.

As for finding pens, it maybe easier for you buy what you can find. To call out a specific brand and a model and celluloid color requires patience to find. It helps to have contacts. If you know exactly what you want I can try to find it for you. I love spending other people's money.

[LucienPS]

Thank you - a kind, knowledgeable and helpful reply which is much appreciated.

Yes, size. I understand. Happily I'm also content with the size of my Pro Gear (although I post and thought they'd sent me a Junior size at first!), my Mr Pen Parsons (unposted as quite heavy), and P51. Perhaps I'm just greedy for the celluloid...

I really must try some flex nibs. I can imagine but have zero experience. I will probably have to wait for the London show in October. However I might acquire a less expensive black 556 or Minerva before then and see how I get on.

I hadn't considered the ink change issue and although I like having some variety, this particular pen would sport my main note-taking ink. Quite happy with that.

I will ponder some more and browse vintage penporn. Perhaps I can come back with possibilities in due course and open to your ideas too.

Milton Gracie, as my phone has autocorrected!
LP