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View Full Version : So what's the deal with all the SALES threads?!?



Jon Szanto
September 3rd, 2016, 03:00 PM
Ok, just have to check on this...

Yeah, yeah, it's been a hectic few months out here in Reality World, and I apologize for not being a more active participant. In a perfect world, I'd start a new thread every day and respond to the dozens of threads popping up about pens, inks, papers, fun, writing, life, life with pens, more pens, and other pen stuff.

But now, when I look at the "What's New?" stream, it seems like all I see are things FOR SALE. And a whole lot of them by people with one or few posts to their names, very obviously people who have come to the FPG forum for no other reason than to sell something. Not get involved. Not chat. Not talk about the things I mentioned above, just SELL.

Is this because of the hose job done on the FPN sales forums by virtue of the perfect storm of weirdly set up rules and that Claudio guy? Is it just the rep that FPG is an easy place to post thing and gets a lot of sales? Are people tired of eBay and they are dumping stuff here first?

I just don't get it.

I've always been glad for a sales area, but I've always liked that it was primarily frequented by people who were active in the forum itself. If the trend continues, and we have less community and more commerce (ack), I see very little need for my regular perusing. No, no one has violated any rules (written ones, at least), and they have a right to do it. But seeing as this joint runs mainly with no administration whatsoever, and has no guiding hand on the rudder of the community, it can very easily slip into another faceless commercial blot on the Earth. Or Internet. You understand.

I'm looking at having more available time in the coming months, and I wanted to become active again. I hope there are still people around that want to do something other than hawk their wares.

Discuss.

With all my usual good regards,
Jon

Farmboy
September 3rd, 2016, 03:45 PM
I have been known to buy a few pens. Actually, I might be known to buy a lot of pens but I tend to not buy them one at a time so I don't go to the classified very often. I did try to converse with that Claudio guy but it didn't work out. I've been conversing with someone at the other place that wants to buy high end 51s but he/she/it seems to not realize what high end 51s mean. I'd rather pay a little more for a pen that I can inspect than a randomly offered pen on a board. I am also getting to the point where I will pay significantly more for most pens in unrestored or as found condition. I've simply had to many on-line pens show up overly polished with wrong parts, glue, damage and what not to make it worth the effort. (NOTE I buy vintage not modern pens.)

Having just finished a pen show and bought and sold and traded pens there my recommendation would be save up your pen money and get to a pen show near you. Not only do you get to play pens with pen people, you get pen people who for the most part are a good lot of people to hang out with.

Hawk
September 3rd, 2016, 04:20 PM
My personal viewpoint. I would rather buy from someone who parcipitates by posting on the forum over a period of time. I get the warm and fuzzy feel. Are there reputable people who are new to the site, yes but I hesitate.

mulrich
September 3rd, 2016, 04:20 PM
I noticed the same thing. It seems like there are more sales on What's New? than in the actual classifieds. It looks like FPN dropped Claudio so maybe classifieds will shift back towards that site.

Laura N
September 3rd, 2016, 05:01 PM
It's always been like that here. Many -- possibly even most -- of the regular and biggest classifieds sellers participate nowhere else on the forum. When you look at the recent ads you see that very thing: most rarely participate here outside of the classifieds, but they aren't all new members.

Maybe there are more new people, or more new sales threads in total, because FPN has turned itself into an inhospitable place to buy and sell pens for the hobbyist who is just trying to move on a few pens or inks. The stream is now blocked by a constant logjam of multiple ads from financial contributors. Apparently for those dealers and unofficial dealers, it's cheaper than eBay. So that's going to move some of the smaller scale pen sellers from FPN to here, and that includes both hobbyists and borderline dealers.

What can you do? It's human nature. At least people are looking at the classifieds. As a seller who does participate here, it's a little annoying when you put together a sale and have it bumped off the first page within a day by people who aren't participating members. But I don't do the bump-bump thing that most sellers do, so you could say when that happens to me that it's my fault for not being aggressive about it.

Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance? :)

whichwatch
September 3rd, 2016, 05:01 PM
I'm probably one of the guilty ones. Please allow me to explain.

I frequented FPN. I posted in the Forums with some frequency. I prefer to buy pens pre-owned, and I much preferred that site to Ebay, so I was an active buyer. I also sold pens when I tired of them in order to generate funds to buy others. You all know the disease.

Shortly after I found FP Geeks in an attempt to "broaden my horizons", it "disappeared". You all also know that bit of history. When it returned (sort of), I began to browse the Forums, but there didn't seem to be very much discussion. I lurked, but didn't participate. Quite honestly, there just didn't seem to be much discussion in which to participate.

As was mentioned, FPN Classifieds were soon fairly effectively destroyed through abuse by one member, which was tolerated by management of the site. Despite numerous and frequently repeated complaints by members, the problem was not addressed for many months. Many members began posting that they no longer read the Classifieds. I found it harder to find pens I liked at attractive prices, since the Classifieds lost participation of collectors and became heavily dominated by the one abuser and several other "dealers", both professional and amateur. And I noticed the number of "hits" on my posts of pens for sale dropped significantly.

I began spending more time on FP Geeks, and started posting my occasional sales here. I quickly found that my sales posts here drew three times as many hits as on FPN, and most of my sales occurred from readers here. I like it here!

I have to admit, I have been negligent in using the "For Sale" and "WTB,WTT" Forums more than the others, and I haven't contributed much in the way of discussion posts. Guilty as charged! I will try to do better. I appreciate your understanding.

carlos.q
September 3rd, 2016, 05:10 PM
Personally I have no problem with the increase in the SALES forum. Anyway I won't buy from someone who hasn't posted content either here or on FPN.
In any case, I believe that Claudio's one year contract with FPN has expired... :applause:

Jon Szanto
September 3rd, 2016, 05:12 PM
Dr. Laura is already spanking me! Look, I'm trying to be positive in my contributions! (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/2378-What-is-your-latest-pen-acquisition?p=181199&viewfull=1#post181199) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/bouncers.gif

TSherbs
September 3rd, 2016, 06:05 PM
I love the sale threads here. And I hardly buy pens/inks. But the offers are very good, and I enjoy looking at them without being overwhelmed by 50 (or more) of them. Initially, I found the threads here inhospitable to newcomers, especially if they had a contrary opinion or standard of polite discussion. But I have actually been enjoying the ink-guessing threads and a few topic threads the last few months and I have found the tone quite polite and deferential, even. I never guess an ink right, but I am tolerated, which I appreciate. I try my best! :hippie:

Laura N
September 3rd, 2016, 06:18 PM
Dr. Laura is already spanking me! Look, I'm trying to be positive in my contributions! (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/2378-What-is-your-latest-pen-acquisition?p=181199&viewfull=1#post181199) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/bouncers.gif

Oh please. Only if you ask nicely do I spank. :)

Otherwise I just rely on drollery or occasional sarcasm, both of which no one else ever gets. :)

Now, see, I followed your link, was duly impressed by your pen haul and made a positive contribution myself, which may, however, cause you some physical pain, because I mentioned the Pen That Must Not Be Named.

Empty_of_Clouds
September 3rd, 2016, 09:03 PM
I've absented myself from this forum of late for the same reasons given by TSherbs above - while I don't mind a robust debate, the combativeness and lack of civility from some of the members here is off-putting. They can go play with themselves as far as I am concerned (and they probably do!).

As for the sales forum... I find it very amusing that there are regular people who pop up repeatedly giving the same tired old reasons why they just have to get rid of this enormous pile of pens. You know, "downsizing", "culling the herd" (if ever there was a cliche that needed taking out and shot it's this one), "looking to buy a grail pen", "found these in the attic/Aunt Mabel left them in her will", that kind of thing.

In particular I am tickled with the 'downsizers' who are selling with one hand and buying like crazy with the other.

Perhaps what is especially hilarious though is that some of these people seem to think that they go unnoticed. <shrugs>


Human nature: for any system that has a weakness that can be exploited, there will be people who will exploit it without any remorse whatsoever.


I gots ma cynickle head on terday.



Edited to add: Although I don't know Todd, and have zero chance of making a purchase from him (or anyone like him in fact), his reputation precedes him. Given the choice I would rather put my money in his direction than to someone whose only contribution here is in the classifieds.

sloegin
September 3rd, 2016, 11:08 PM
I started a sales thread a couple days ago. Hadn't started a sales thread in months before that. I quit listing things here because it is a pain in the ass to end up maybe selling a couple of pens.

As for other participation I'm not very talkative but I do read some of it.

Marsilius
September 3rd, 2016, 11:43 PM
Yes I have noticed it. I tend to not think of buying anything from a new member. (They might boost their sales by getting to be better known here?)
Been too busy to post or even look at old the nice artwork, though I feel guilty that sometimes I have time to window shop. (Noticed Jon Szanto missing as well and was just wondering when he would surface.) Seldom mind outspoken comments when I know they are sincere and not just baiting, so always happy to read posts here.
Looking foreward to hearing more from Jon, and, when I finally get some stuff done of my overdue work, hopefully to post some, too.

penwash
September 4th, 2016, 08:52 AM
Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance? :)

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

Sailor Kenshin
September 4th, 2016, 09:03 AM
There are one or two regular sellers here I've bought from many times, with joyful results. I am kinda wary of non-participants and maybe some others, due in part to the scammer brouhaha a while back.

I have sold a pen or two here, and traded inks. I also even sold some pens on the other site, two or three before the Classifieds change, and one after.

So you can see I'm a high-volume dealer. ;)

carlc
September 4th, 2016, 10:05 AM
So you can see I'm a high-volume dealer. ;)

[emoji1]

More like an 'anti-Claudio'.

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

oldstoat
September 4th, 2016, 03:37 PM
[QUOTE=Laura N;181200]

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).
That's it, lure them in, ever so gently....... ( rubs hands, cackles quietly)

Sammyo
September 4th, 2016, 10:13 PM
I have to agree with many posts, I used to participate a lot here. I liked it here because it did not have the aggressive, old guard that beat you down for having an opinion like FPN did.
However, having said that, this year, and especially in the last few moths it has been getting worse! I don't know if the FPN sales situation resulted in a shift of people wanting to post more here too. But it has become a pretty inhospitable place at times... and I'm not a newbie!

I have actually started holding "highly respected people" on this forum accountable for their actions. They are the ones that are supposed to set the tone; they are the ones that are supposed to rise above the crap and show them how we act on FPGeeks. I have received some not so pleasant messages from people calling me many things. But this is the point, FPGeeks is getting, for use of a better term, catty and I don't like it. I'm sure people will not understand why I have given negative feedback, or even care about my opinion or feelings on the subject. But a society without accountability is doomed to fail.

I don't post in the "For sale" forum, I have bought a few though. There is more than normal and I did get a grail pen... if it is ever released from customs. But I think people in general are posting less, myself not for fear of attack, but in disappointment of it. I want the FPGeeks I joined a few years ago, where it was a discussion and not a fight; where different opinions were discussed with a "to each their own, but I feel like..." approach and not a "YOU ARE WRONG!!! END OF STORY!!!" feeling to the narrative.

I have waffled a lot, I have upset people here recently and I'm honestly not sorry. We need to get back to what we were, the sales forum will be overflowed for a while, hopefully that will subside as FPN gets back on track and hopefully our friendly community will too.

TSherbs
September 5th, 2016, 05:56 AM
Sammyo, I too have received discourteous and aggressive replies and messages. I recommend the block/ignore function. It's unfortunate to have to do so, but it makes the browsing experience more pleasant.

christof
September 5th, 2016, 06:49 AM
Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees... but I did clearly stated my intentions in the new members forum. Nobody told me to bugger off from here.

My main problem on FPN was not people like Claudio. But I felt very disturbing that the forums owner and moderators did not change anything and only repeated that everything was fine and according to the boards rules. After 8 years of active sharing of knowledge and pen pictures I felt tricked.

But I can promise that I will not flood your sales forum here. Commonly, I have one or two pens for sale at month. In the meantime, I'll try to entertain you with some posts and pics from time to time. Hope this is okay.

C.

migo984
September 5th, 2016, 06:52 AM
Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees... but I did clearly stated my intentions in the new members forum. Nobody told me to bugger off from here.

My main problem on FPN was not people like Claudio. But I felt very disturbing that the forums owner and moderators did not change anything and only repeated that everything was fine and according to the boards rules. After 8 years of active sharing of knowledge and pen pictures I felt tricked.

But I can promise that I will not flood your sales forum here. Commonly, I have one or two pens for sale at month. Hope this is okay.

C.

I very much hope you do continue to sell your pens here Christof. I still very much enjoy writing with the Pelikan Silvexa I bought from you :)

stub
September 5th, 2016, 07:12 AM
Last year I went on a sellathon and got rid of a bunch of pens that just weren't getting used and a few to just raise some $. That's done now. I probably sold 20 pens or so and used that pay off some things and to get 3 killer pens on that have been regularly used: An Aerometric Duofold from Carlc that sees lots of action and which I adore, a lovely desk set from mhosea that I currently use w/o the base, and a really sweet Sage Green PdAg Snorkel Statesman which graces my pocket currently, which I acquired from gregamckinney. I've been pretty happy as an FPN refugee here and really had mostly good luck on the classifieds minus one or two price policing episodes I could have lived without. Note tho those three names and you'll also note they are regular contributors here. However I have sold to folks on here with very few posts. And that has also so far gone without a hitch. I know a lot of folks come here just for the classifieds.

I dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere here to boot.

Stub

stub
September 5th, 2016, 07:18 AM
Actually, me too am one of these FPN refugees...

I'm glad to see you here now. I've always appreciated your contributions especially all those rich and wonderful posts on Lamy 27 pens. I hope to see you post here more often whatever it may be.

Laura N
September 5th, 2016, 08:05 AM
Last year I went on a sellathon and got rid of a bunch of pens that just weren't getting used and a few to just raise some $. That's done now. I probably sold 20 pens or so and used that pay off some things and to get 3 killer pens on that have been regularly used: An Aerometric Duofold from Carlc that sees lots of action and which I adore, a lovely desk set from mhosea that I currently use w/o the base, and a really sweet Sage Green PdAg Snorkel Statesman which graces my pocket currently, which I acquired from gregamckinney. I've been pretty happy as an FPN refugee here and really had mostly good luck on the classifieds minus one or two price policing episodes I could have lived without. Note tho those three names and you'll also note they are regular contributors here. However I have sold to folks on here with very few posts. And that has also so far gone without a hitch. I know a lot of folks come here just for the classifieds.

I dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere here to boot.

Stub

You know what? I've just about had it with crud like this. What Sammyo is talking about, the rude atmosphere here, this is an example. I just am at the end of my rope with this place. I've put up with complaints and rude comments when I tried to do something nice, at my expense, for folks here. I've put up with people who are outright rude to me, even in that context, and I've never answered back, because I was taught to be polite. But you know what, inside, there's a part of me that thinks, I shouldn't have to put up with that. The rudeness tax for doing something nice, or for having opinions about fountain pens or ink? No one should have to pay that. People shouldn't be outright rude and oppositional to others, just because this forum is unmoderated, and they can. People shouldn't try to troll others. If you can't take it when someone has a different opinion about pens or inks, maybe you shouldn't interact with others, ever. If you like to dish out "rough and tumble" opinions to others, you shouldn't freak out if someone politely responds to you, not in a rough and tumble way.

As for you, dude, it actually wasn't pricing police on my part to ask you if the pens you were ambiguously selling as a lot were priced separately or together -- it was an actual question because I had bought those same pens for 1/3 the price, and they were currently offered (all over eBay) at 1/3 the price. So since you were selling three and listing only one price, I honestly wondered whether your price was for all three. Then when someone else pointed that out -- not me, because I was being super polite -- you possibly pretended to a "whoops, really, I had no idea" reaction and said people should buy it elsewhere. So, since I'd gotten three or four PMs asking where to buy from, I took you at your word. Not realizing you might have been just pretending. At which point, you proceeded to treat me quite rudely. Well, dude, I didn't respond to that, so as not to accelerate and contribute to the negativity that came from you. But that doesn't work with you, does it? You just keep bringing it up.

I never accused you of anything. But you keep messing with me and others. That makes it look like you were and are angry. So know this: from my side, I had assumed only positive things about you. I assumed your price for fellow members was the eBay price, not three times the eBay price. Then I assumed you were being honest when you said you wanted members to buy it at the lower price. And I innocently reacted out of those assumptions. At which point you blew up about it. So that tells me my assumptions, which put you in a good light, were wrong. I overestimated you. I assumed the best about you. You assumed the worst about me, you blew up in public at me, you smeared me and apparently you keep resenting it because you keep bringing it up. That difference in assumptions about other people is one difference between the two of us. The other is that I have the self-control to not respond rudely. Or to ask for an apology. But your behavior to me was rude and shoddy, and that continues. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Here's what I think: you may claim to "dig the more rough and tumble atmosphere," but really you just like to dish it out. You can't take it. You can't take even someone's innocent question.

Well, you know what, you win. All of your ilk do. Enjoy your rough and tumble, no holds barred, overcharge others forum. I've come up against this in the past, and I've kept trying after a short pause, but today I don't know. I'll probably be happier to take myself elsewhere and stay there. I feel like what I try to be, how I try to behave, has no place here. I feel like people don't even like me here, with a few signal exceptions. When others attack me or bitch or get mad at me, or misunderstand, I ignore them or try to explain. And all that gets me is .... I really don't know. Nothing. And I don't like feeling maltreated.

I'm more than "also a regular contributor here." I've been here longer than you, I send people stuff, for free, I sell things at less than the eBay price. I try to participate positively. But I don't blow my own horn about it -- I don't ask for praise. I don't ask for thanks (and I surely don't get it). On the other side, I am female, and I do occasionally express my opinion, and maybe that rubs some people the wrong way. Fine. I don't need to be where people don't care for me. Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

stub
September 5th, 2016, 08:30 AM
I am a little mystified and dismayed by this reaction. I am sorry you are so bent out of shape. I genuinely dig you and your contributions here and had no idea you felt this way and specifically about me. This is a lot to absorb and I am not even sure how to respond except to say that I am dismayed and saddened to see how passionately angry you are and see such a characterization of my overall behavior on this board.

stub
September 5th, 2016, 08:45 AM
Ive read this post a few times now. I can't even begin to tell you how it makes me feel. It is so strongly worded and pointed directly at me. Any response I would give would take a really long time and opens up the possibility for further problems I suppose. I am really sorry to read this. It makes me sad. That particular thread for sure was not my finest moment (for the record I wasn't referencing that particular thread exclusively) but i had no idea you were so bothered by it and that it was part of an overall cumulative effect you feel here. I hate that I could have contributed to that but I think, while not perfect, I have been a pretty good overall member here I am not at all sure what other transgressions there might have been but yeah. wow. Honestly taken aback by this and my feelings about it are wide ranging and complex from hurt, mystified, angry, apologetic ... yeah wow. This is really something. I am truly sorry to read this and really disturbed.

sharmon202
September 5th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance? :)

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?

penwash
September 5th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance? :)

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?

Here's an idea, why don't you check my posting history first before you ask me that question? :)
As I said above, I have posted questions similar to what I mentioned above from time to time,
and I am actively (and hopefully positively) participating in this forum.

How about you? Any questions in your mind that you'd like discuss with the people in this forum?

carlc
September 5th, 2016, 09:33 AM
Maybe starting some positive content threads or adding some positive posts in some of the content threads will change the balance? :)

This is the key. Laura, you are so right.

A simple question like:
"What is bugging you lately in the FP world?" or
"Show me the pen that you try so hard to like but just can't" or
"Which vintage brand/model are you liking now?"

... can generate some fun discussions, because what we observe/like/drool/go nuts with/love/hate changes with time.

I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am (Jon, I am looking at you as one of these people) also put out similar questions.

IMHO, don't lament people for coming here just for the Classifieds, it's human nature, very hard to change that. But if they see that the site is lively with fun discussions that they can join, they may want to waste more time here. (heh heh heh).

So why don't you post your suggestions and actively positively participate? Why wait for others?
He has: "I tried to come up with these kind of post from time to time, but I think it would work a lot better if others who are far more experienced and creative than I am...."

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

stub
September 5th, 2016, 09:33 AM
overcharge others forum.

I must however, as a seller at least defend my overall reputation since you imply that I am gouging folks. Here are recent completed adds and prices. Judge for yourself. EMS and air from Korea is a non trivial expense. Most of these came with extras.

Pelikan M1000 B Nib (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/13291-Pelikan-M1000-B-Nib-Black-amp-Gold) [B]$440 shipped EMS express with tracking.
2-pack: Platinum PTL-5000 & TWSBI 580 AL (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15490-2-pack-Platinum-PTL-5000-amp-TWSBI-580-AL-(-69)) and 3 pack 15ml Iroshizuku ink $69
PFM II Italic nib (Blue) (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15112-PFM-II-Italic-nib-(Blue)) listed at $250 possibly sold at that or a bit less can't recall the final price.
4 pen starter pack (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15505-4-pen-starter-pack-extras)+ extras (2 safari, 2 pilots, 3 diamine 30ml and a Herbin 10ml $50 shipped
Kaweco Al Sport RAW++ camping/fishing/hiking bundle (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15503-Kaweco-Al-Sport-RAW-camping-fishing-hiking-bundle) (ink, converter, clip notebook and cover $70 Shipped)
Parker 51/61 Double set! (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15726-Parker-51-61-Double-WHAMMY!) $110 + actual shipping (forgot what that was but the buyer payed shipping in this advert)
MB Ink of Love, MB Jonathan Swift ink (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15788-MB-Ink-of-Love-MB-Jonathan-Swift-ink) (traded away)
Lamy 2000 F (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15728-Lamy-2000-F-nib) nib box & papers, $115 shipped
USA Waterman C/F Set (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15894-USA-Waterman-C-F-Set-w-box-papers-6-cartridges-Needs-repair-Just-pay-shipping) w/ box, papers, 6 cartridges. Needs repair. Given away (buyer payed shipping)
Faber-Castell Ondoro Smoked Oak (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15723-Faber-Castell-Ondoro-Smoked-oak) box, papers, converter $80 shipped
(my one mistake, I forgot to include the “extra” for this sale, still sorry about that)
1963 OMAS VS (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15729-1963-OMAS-VS-double-sided-pen) $225.00
English Waterman Set - 503 soft flex nib (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15722-English-Waterman-Set-503-soft-flex-nib-box-amp-papers) box & papers. $75 + actual shipping.
4 Parker UK Duofolds (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15856-Quartet-of-Parker-UK-Duofolds) All 4 pens, $70 shipped.
PFM V (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15817-PFM-V-B-nib) B nib ($200)
1963 Sheaffer Imperial Lifetime TD (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/15727-1963-Sheaffer-Imperial-Lifetime-TD) listed at $100. I ended up keeping it.

NONE Of those look like overcharges. some at market prices and a few look like genuine bargains. As for those LAMY pens. I waited on line for hours and paid full KOREAN retail for them. If some folks on eBay had them fall off the back of a truck and could sell them at way below that then power to them. I hope you got in on that. I for one am not selling them at a loss. I was not able to sell them and I still have most of them. I gave a few away as gifts. I would have lowered the prices some but in frustration just pulled the ad. But really it isn't my goal to re-litigate that but rather give broader context. These ads above are not cherry picked either. Look at my profile lest you think that.

jar
September 5th, 2016, 09:39 AM
They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The french hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much!!

And that seems to sum it up.

Jon Szanto
September 5th, 2016, 11:07 AM
FULL STOP

Ladies and gentlemen,

I had no intentions, nor no imaginings, that this would be the outcome of my original query. I did say "discuss"; I didn't think I was going to open wounds.

If there are any of you who have been on this forum for more than a few months, you will know me from my history of posting. You will know my views on how I believe people should treat each other in a community such as this, including both care and candor, passion and respect. I am sorry to see that there is even a small consensus that the waters of dialogue had devolved on FPG, more than something which used to ruffle only a few sensitive souls.

I now have two large thoughts in mind (and, Hell's Bells, this is after I stayed up until nearly 3:00 a.m. to write up my SF Pen Show report to post, to make happy vibes!):


Take a step back and disengage. If by simply asking these questions I've raised the temperature of your forum experience, give it a bit of a pause before posting.
I once again propose that while a forum can stumble along with literally no hand guiding it, I most certainly return to my position that a wise hand on the tiller could make this all so much better. A hand we don't have, I am sorry to say.



So, yeah. Let's maybe move into a reflective period, turn it down a notch or seven, and see what we can come up with. I'll make every effort to be more involved and see how things go. I don't want to see my preferred place of pen repose to go away, in flames.

Peace. Seriously.
Peace,
Jon

TSherbs
September 5th, 2016, 11:09 AM
.... Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of and will not question or comment on. Let me say that I agree entirely with you that the bigger problem around here, when it occurs, is the nature and tone of some of the exchanges, and the lack of moderation to keep it civil (what I would define as polite and respectable). But I will add only that this is true of some members here and not all. And, again, I find the block/ignore function useful for that. There are some nice people around here, and I consider you among them. But if, in balance, you find more poison here than manna, then of course you should go. But, for the public record, there will be one less decent and intelligent and experienced voice around here if you go, and the loss will be the rest of ours.

Hawk
September 5th, 2016, 12:44 PM
.... Your post, dude, is why people don't like it here. It has nothing to do with the for-sale forums. It's people being so rude to others, treating others badly and assuming the worst instead of the best. I should just stay away, as I said I would. It's a hard place to stay positive about other people. It's a place where people who like to dig at others feel happy. Where people who enjoy conflict and like to spread unhappiness feel at home. Where people who think their actions can never be questioned, even innocently, but everyone else is wrong/stupid/vile, enjoy playing rough and tumble.

Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of and will not question or comment on. Let me say that I agree entirely with you that the bigger problem around here, when it occurs, is the nature and tone of some of the exchanges, and the lack of moderation to keep it civil (what I would define as polite and respectable). But I will add only that this is true of some members here and not all. And, again, I find the block/ignore function useful for that. There are some nice people around here, and I consider you among them. But if, in balance, you find more poison here than manna, then of course you should go. But, for the public record, there will be one less decent and intelligent and experienced voice around here if you go, and the loss will be the rest of ours.

There are many nice people on this board. While, at times, a post or thread rubs me the wrong way, I tend to ignore it and let it pass. Laura, knowing you from the pen club, you are good for this forum.

Empty_of_Clouds
September 5th, 2016, 01:17 PM
I totally agree with what Laura has said. She is among the very few members here that I much regret not having the opportunity to meet in person.

stub
September 5th, 2016, 05:02 PM
Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

Jon Szanto
September 5th, 2016, 05:30 PM
This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

I have a thought: maybe just give it a bit of space.

I recently had an encounter in another venue that took me aback. Completely out of left-field, made worse that it was a moderator that instigated it. I took a good while off of posting there, and have only slowly come back. I hope to find a time in the future when I can come to terms with this person and find a satisfactory resolution, so that I am not left with the feelings that I took away from it. I hope that this could happen in your case, as well. One never knows, for certain, the forces coming to bear on the other party, and sometimes time is the best solution to these problems. No guarantee, just a wish on my part.

Not to mention that the turns this thread have taken have given me pause, as well.

TSherbs
September 5th, 2016, 05:38 PM
Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

I find you equally cordial and helpful, with some of it coming behind the scenes as well. I don't begrudge you at all, but I don't look at a lot of threads. But, yes, if this place brings you down (the "poison"), then no one should stick around to feel bad. I went away for months a while back. We all take breaks. And tomorrow my teaching starts back up full force, so I am about to be swamped and not around much. The way it is. Don't take this too personally or seriously. It's just an internet forum. It's more important to practice your "being" where you are in the flesh. Blessings!

Empty_of_Clouds
September 5th, 2016, 05:49 PM
@Stub, I was speaking of the general combativeness (oppositional nature, to paraphrase Laura) and level of rudeness that seems popular here. This is often backed up by the whole "freedom of expression" argument, as if that somehow exempts one from courteous or civil behaviour.

My apologies, I should have made that clear. Obviously I have no idea or involvement in the incident that has been raised specifically.

penwash
September 5th, 2016, 06:26 PM
Laura, obviously you have some history here with Stub that I am not aware of

I'm not even entirely aware of it myself. I begin to wonder what prompted such a vicious lashing out and genuinely wonder if you have me confused with someone else as your post is wildly out of proportion to the one single incident I recall. We've barely had any interaction here at all. I'm sad and confused by your post. Perhaps it is me who should leave. Apparently EoC feels the same way. All this is truly surprising, confusing and strange to me. Baffled.

This lashing out has really upset me and sort of haunted me. I guess I'll go. It's spilled over and disturbed my life in meatspace. I couldn't sleep. I don't need this grief.

Stub is very cordial and detailed and polite in all the post here that I've read.
By no means I'm claiming that I read each one of them, but I find it hard to believe that Kevin (stub) has this "rude" side.

This actually reminded me of someone here who mistook me for a troll when I first came onboard :)
(And no, I don't want to remember who that was, it's water under the bridge).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Kevin, don't let it bug you too much.

Sammyo
September 5th, 2016, 09:55 PM
There are many people here I like, I like people that I have given negative rep to. I agree that "this is just an internet forum" and nothing SHOULD be personal; but very often it is taken that way. In my job and my hobbies alike, I don't see it as negative comments, but rather constructive criticism... But not everybody feels the same way I do and often see it as a personal attack... I suppose years of martial arts training have hardened me to it. But learning form older forums that I no longer frequent, I try to be careful about the words I use; the tonal quality and wherever possible emoticons to help express my emotion while typing rather than someone "interpreting how I feel" based on "how they feel". Maybe the site IS in need of moderators... but I have been a member of forums where the moderators are the "old guard" that defend their own, right or wrong... so is it really a good solution? self policing is a must, and I ask senior members to use positive AND negative rep to try and bring US ALL back in-line (me included).

I have tried to get a few other threads back on track, so in that same vain...

When you look at the FPN Classifieds, there is a scoring system for the people selling based on their forum rep and usage. I am not saying that should be introduced here, but it's an interesting thought.
Is it possible to set up a system where a person must have X number of posts in pen related threads (not the Lounge, etc...) before they can post a pen for sale? thoughts?

whichwatch
September 6th, 2016, 05:54 AM
I don't know Stub but I do know Laura. She is terrific. Laura is intelligent, knowledgeable, kind, and generous. Any site would benefit from having her as a contributing member.

Kids sometimes get into fights in the schoolyard. They either make up and put it behind them, or just avoid each other. They still go to the same school.

Neighbors sometimes get into disagreements. They either settle their differences and put it behind them, or just avoid each other. They still live in the same neighborhood.

Any site is like a schoolyard or neighborhood. The larger it gets, the more likely somebody will have an issue with somebody else from time to time. The difference is, the internet and Forums like this make everything disagreement public.

Hopefully, Stub and Laura can settle their differences, and hopefully (for all our sakes) they will do that by Private Message or Email and not here!

Just my opinion. Now I'll go back to playing with pens.

morningtundra
September 6th, 2016, 09:51 AM
I must confess to being one of "those" you speak of. And having slept on the original post I felt I should pipe-up.

I'm an introverted lurker with a rather narrowly focused interest in a particular, inexpensive and unexciting brand and model.

There seems to be very little traffic in the "Brand Focus" section that I subscribe to. The other forum areas are of little interest to me. No offense intended but I'm just not knowledgable, interested or rich enough (have you seen some of those prices!?!) to relate.

So I posted my first FS ad in the classifieds recently. I was prompted to try here (despite being unknown to the community), due to the increasing amount of spam, phishing and scamming messages I've been getting on Ebay.

I'm not a "trader"; just a white collar chap with more personal pens than I can justify. I'm pretty small-time with maybe $1,000 (tops) invested in pens. If I can pass a nice pen on to someone that will care for it and use it, I'll be happy. If I can avoid losing money on it, I'll be happier.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm sorry if people like me have upset "the community" in any way.

I'm just a regular chap with not a lot to say and a few too many pens!

carlc
September 6th, 2016, 09:57 AM
Morningtundra

Off topic (perhaps): which brand/model?

Okay did some detective work. I can see what you mean - tumbleweed.

I'm afraid the 75 isn't a pen for me, sorry. I'd love to have been able to discuss it with you but it's a pen that doesn't suit my hand.

Don't worry about your sales post - as far as I'm concerned you've made the effort to engage with the community and thus the thread doesn't refer to you.

Carl

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

Jon Szanto
September 6th, 2016, 11:02 AM
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm sorry if people like me have upset "the community" in any way.

I'm just a regular chap with not a lot to say and a few too many pens!

Believe me, it was not my intent to single out any person or persons. It truly was the case of "noticing a trend" and wanting to discuss it. Not only that, there is nothing in place in FPG that prohibits what you are doing, and certainly in that sense, you have violated no stated nor implied guidelines, so continue interacting the way it feels best for you.

That said, I hope you'll eventually feel good about participating a bit more - things really get interesting when the voices in the chorus multiply!

tl;dr - It's all good. :)

mhosea
September 6th, 2016, 04:07 PM
In particular I am tickled with the 'downsizers' who are selling with one hand and buying like crazy with the other.


:) Hey, I really am downsizing! I don't think I've bought a pen this year. Problem is, I can hardly be bothered to list anything for sale because it just seems like too much work. I've got a pretty nice Targa collection that I'm pretty sure I can live without, except for the factory oblique in my pocket today. What was I thinking? Guess I should stop razzing Jon about never getting that round 'tuit to sell any of his pens.

Chrissy
September 7th, 2016, 04:41 AM
I have actually started holding "highly respected people" on this forum accountable for their actions. They are the ones that are supposed to set the tone; they are the ones that are supposed to rise above the crap and show them how we act on FPGeeks.......

But a society without accountability is doomed to fail.

I have waffled a lot, I have upset people here recently and I'm honestly not sorry. We need to get back to what we were, the sales forum will be overflowed for a while, hopefully that will subside as FPN gets back on track and hopefully our friendly community will too.

I applaud you for your actions in holding 'highly respected people' on this forum accountable for their actions, and agree with those sentiments. It would seem to many that FPG is a society without accountability and that must surely be avoided.

However, it would seem to me that your selection process for these 'highly respected people' may be slightly flawed, in that to some on here, it may look like you are randomly picking out people to receive your judgement. Also, I have seen that you are making your selections from statements that are not current.

If you have decided to promote yourself as Judge, jury and executioner, then I'm sure you would agree that it would be prudent to treat everyone equally, without showing any apparent bias, rather than to just select any old phrase from a particular person to apply your treatment to.

I recently watched a film and found that your actions brought to my mind a famous quote by Benjamin Franklin that was repeated in there, so I'm going to repeat it here. 'That it is better 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer.'

If I had decided to appoint myself, as you have done, I would be sure to follow that maxim.

On the other hand, I am rather saddened that you have decided to publicise the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to hold a few people accountable for their actions. It must surely not have escaped you that there are many who don't know how the system even works, let alone the fact that there is a system available at all.

So in publicising that fact that you are now holding a few people accountable for their own actions, by making use of the reward and punishment system that is available on FPG, you might even yourself be accused of kicking some while they are down. I can only hope that was not your intention.

I have a current promise, to review Mystery Ink #13. Then I will review whether I will continue to post on here or not.

Sammyo
September 7th, 2016, 06:07 AM
However, it would seem to me that your selection process for these 'highly respected people' may be slightly flawed, in that to some on here, it may look like you are randomly picking out people to receive your judgement. Also, I have seen that you are making your selections from statements that are not current.
A comment made in August about a post in July is, I feel, current enough.


If you have decided to promote yourself as Judge, jury and executioner, then I'm sure you would agree that it would be prudent to treat everyone equally, without showing any apparent bias, rather than to just select any old phrase from a particular person to apply your treatment to.
1. Judge, jury and executioner is a bit over the top. This is not Salem and no one is actually hurt or serving time. I just let you know that I disagreed with the way you handled someting within the bounds of the forum rules.

2. You say I act with bias, but you don't know who I have given negative feedback to. For all you know I actually did give negative feedback to the other person elsewhere on the forum.


I recently watched a film and found that your actions brought to my mind a famous quote by Benjamin Franklin that was repeated in there, so I'm going to repeat it here. 'That it is better 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer.'
Ok, so let's get some perspective here. If me and Steve have a disagreement down the pub because he tried to kiss my girlfriend when he was drunk. When we go to work the next day, if in a meeting I snap at him everyone else in the meeting thinks "well that was a bit uncalled for! I think Sam needs to calm down!". We all have bad days, we all do silly things, but I see a forum as an office, not a bar. I (try to) threat the people like there was a HR department. Normally that would be the Moderators, but this site has none, it has no HR department.

I do not know the in and outs of every members lives; I do not read every thread in every room. I can only respond to what I see and what I saw was unnecessary, it basically came down to "I didn't ask you did I, so shut up and butt out!". They way to deal with a troll is to ignore them, if you react you give them ammunition, you give them the fire they want to react to; that is forum 101.


On the other hand, I am rather saddened that you have decided to publicise the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to hold a few people accountable for their actions. It must surely not have escaped you that there are many who don't know how the system even works, let alone the fact that there is a system available at all.

So in publicising that fact that you are now holding a few people accountable for their own actions, by making use of the reward and punishment system that is available on FPG, you might even yourself be accused of kicking some while they are down. I can only hope that was not your intention.
Re-read my post, I told people to hold me accountable too, I am not above being wrong and have been in the past. Hand held high, I am no saint.


I have a current promise, to review Mystery Ink #13. Then I will review whether I will continue to post on here or not.
Please don't leave because of me. If anything I seem to be in the minority and contribute far less than you do. I have decided another hiatus is in order for me. It looks like wanting a nice thing to be nice is just not wanted, and I'm the only one that sees it as an office and everyone else see it as a bar or coffee shop. It appears that my image and expectations are out of sync with most others. I'm not angry, or sad, in fact I don't feel anything.


... I'm honestly not sorry...
In retrospect, I do apologise, I am sorry. It appears that my good intentions are as bad as any other behaviour.

So back on track...

I have noticed a number of new discussions starting since this thread went up. There appears to have been a positive outcome from this thread.

inklord
September 7th, 2016, 09:19 AM
...noticed most of the above. Also, maybe more fun conversations would happen if 'one' wouldn't get clobbered with a 2x4 sooner or later each time one innocently posts a personal notion that inadvertently contains an error... :)

Chrissy
September 7th, 2016, 11:35 AM
A comment made in August about a post in July is, I feel, current enough.

1. Judge, jury and executioner is a bit over the top. This is not Salem and no one is actually hurt or serving time. I just let you know that I disagreed with the way you handled someting within the bounds of the forum rules.

2. You say I act with bias, but you don't know who I have given negative feedback to. For all you know I actually did give negative feedback to the other person elsewhere on the forum.

I do not know the in and outs of every members lives; I do not read every thread in every room. I can only respond to what I see and what I saw was unnecessary, it basically came down to "I didn't ask you did I, so shut up and butt out!". They way to deal with a troll is to ignore them, if you react you give them ammunition, you give them the fire they want to react to; that is forum 101.

Sammy, As you wish me to be accurate, the original post was made on July 25th. No-one felt compelled enough to vote that it was bad enough to warrant a bad reputation comment until September 1st when you decided you didn't like it. Actually, my one big mistake was missing out the word 'David' from the beginning of my original question, and I sincerely apologise that I forgot that. I really thought that I had said it, and that was the only reason for my subsequent comment. For that omission, I may now have to hold my head in shame forever.

'no one is actually hurt' You're wrong there too. I am really hurt. I am so hurt that I have lost lots of sleep over this and it has been a constant worry to me. So please will you think about any potential repercussions the next time you decide to hurt someone’s reputation.

'You say I act with bias, but you don't know who I have given negative feedback to. For all you know I actually did give negative feedback to the other person elsewhere on the forum.'
I didn't say you act with bias. I said ‘be prudent that you don't act with bias’. And I certainly did check on who else had annoyed you enough that you had left bad reputation comments for. In fact I looked through many pages of reputation comments when I received that notification. I could find no bad reputation comments at all, other than those that have historically been left for trolls, or by trolls. In fact, to be specific, the last bad reputation comment was left by Dreck for the troll Special K on 07/13/2015. And the one before that was left in March 2015. So if you have left bad reputation comments for other people, they aren't visible on the Reputation Board that I, and everyone else, can see. I wonder if you might be confusing neutral reputation comments with bad ones? They are not the same.

'They way to deal with a troll is to ignore them, if you react you give them ammunition, you give them the fire they want to react to; that is forum 101.' I do try my best to avoid and ignore this troll. She has been on my ignore list for years, and she knows this. I try to avoid any dealings with her. However, if you just look around on threads on here and on FPN you will be able to see that she seems to follow me around trolling about many things that I post. And I didn’t mean what you thought I meant. I know you don’t care and you won’t believe me, but I genuinely meant the sort of scratching of the head comment ‘I thought I was talking to someone else.’ You know, when you sort of doubt yourself and wonder how something happened that you didn’t intend? And you wonder where you went wrong? I actually thought I had mentioned the word ‘David’, but hands held high, I hadn’t and I made the mistake of thinking I had. Fear not, if I had seriously wanted to be rude, I would have just said ‘Sorry but I don’t remember asking you a question’ rather than what I actually said.

TSherbs
September 7th, 2016, 12:30 PM
Although I am sorry that people have had hurt feelings about some of the exchanges on FPGeeks, I am happy to see that the nature and tone of interactions are being discussed. I have raised this issue about this site several times over the last three years, often with little demonstrable support for more restraint and respect in tone and demeanor (except for the occasional private message sent my way). Most often I was responded to with "like it or leave it," which, of course, is true. But really only at a base level. But ultimately, if nothing changes, then it means that we are at the basest level.

I don't know anything about this "reputation" stuff.

The OP apparently raised a question about persons selling pens without posting often. It seems to me that that point is not what is causing the most suffering around here. Something else is. Each person who posts will either care or not care, be mindful or not mindful. The proof will be in the pudding.

Chrissy
September 7th, 2016, 01:55 PM
Hi TSherbs,

I apologise that I'm mostly to blame for this thread going 'off topic' and I don't plan to post any more about the incident that directly involved me, that Sammy mentioned.

So far as this reputation stuff is concerned, I'm a bit mystified by one of the comments that Sammy made about giving others bad reputation, since he hasn't done so. He hasn't given anyone any bad reputation other than that he gave to me.

The Reputation Board is accessed from the Community Tab on the FPG Home page. Anyone can see it.

Anyone can leave someone a reputation comment by pressing the star logo on any post, and then adding to a users reputation. You can select good reputation (green), neutral reputation (black), or bad reputation (red). When you leave someone a good reputation comment, you add to their reputation by the value of your own Rep Power, from your Avatar. In your case if you left someone good reputation, they would get a plus 4. Neutral reputation gets anyone a zero, and Bad reputation gets anyone a minus 1.

That's as much as I know. I don't have a clue how reputation given in posts gets transferred to a persons individual Rep Power.

migo984
September 7th, 2016, 02:41 PM
Sammyo owes Chrissy an apology for his inappropriate use of negative feedback.

No he doesn't.

TSherbs
September 7th, 2016, 03:13 PM
Chrissy, you are good with me.

And thanks for explaining; I had no idea. And honestly, I find that rating process strange and weird and kindof middle-school cliquish. One thing I really don't like about Reddit is all that up down stuff that you can do to other people's posts. I find it odd for an adult to engage in.

Chrissy
September 7th, 2016, 03:44 PM
I've never been on Reddit. So I know nothing about it.

Sammyo
September 7th, 2016, 05:44 PM
Sammyo owes Chrissy an apology for his inappropriate use of negative feedback.

In retrospect, I do apologise, I am sorry. It appears that my good intentions are as bad as any other behaviour.
Check the thread... I did, without being prompted.

Jon Szanto
September 7th, 2016, 06:10 PM
And thanks for explaining; I had no idea. And honestly, I find that rating process strange and weird and kindof middle-school cliquish. One thing I really don't like about Reddit is all that up down stuff that you can do to other people's posts. I find it odd for an adult to engage in.

Absolutely, in spades. The downvote trolls almost caused me to bail on the site, but I like helping the n00bs so I just stepped back for a while. It is REALLY annoying at times, when some high school cretin downvotes out of spite, simply on some piece of data, like "yes, that pen uses a latex sac inside the barrel to store the ink".

As to the rating system here, I'll be honest: I'm pretty sure it was in place for months before I even knew it existed, and I NEVER look at it or pay attention. In fact, the way this thread has documented it functions poorly as an indicator of the person's actual demeanor and behavior, and can be quite easily used for vindictive means. While I appreciate, sincerely, that people have given me positive feedback, I don't seek it. I think we should just make our own assessments of the character of forum members on the merits of their postings, and maybe sales behavior (if you are into sales).

Last: hugs to Chrissy and Sammy. You guys are both good people, and this is something that can and should be put in the past, in lieu of a new and positive friendship.

Sammyo
September 7th, 2016, 06:17 PM
So here we go round the mulberry bush... Please read this in a soft, slightly sad tone, there is no aggression or spite in anything written below. I am doing this openly, and publicly and not hiding in a PM.

Chrissy, you did not just omit a word, you asked a question on a forum that someone responded to and it shouldn't matter who. The correct response is either "nothing" or "Thanks for the info. David, does this match what you found?". There are two sides to everything and who knows where a story truly starts, because each person sees events in a way that fits their own perspective. I have (many years ago now) been involved in this kind of feud and after much deliberation and open discussion, found out that both of us were "technically right" and are now friends outside of that forum (not this one, not even pen related). I suppose that is why I hate to see it. Personal experience has shown me that "text without intonation" can be incredibly damaging and very often a post read with an unintended tone can cause factions and unnecessary hatred.

And to curtail any other thoughts, I do not know Migo984 outside of the guess the ink thread, this is not a personal attack. I had originally said "I had started..." not finished. Yes you were the first, it was a comment that really pissed me off! It was not becoming of you and what I've seen of you here, I thought you were better than that... but it is clear that I am in the minority. This will be my last post in FPG for a while, I will not be taking part in MI#13 as it is clear I am the one that is not welcome here.

Chrissy, I wish you well, I am sorry I caused you personal anguish, this was not my intent. I see this as a nothing more than a forum for people to talk happily about what they love without all the schoolyard crap. It is clear to me that this is much more to some people. I will give you positive rep to over-ride the negative rep I issued and not just on any post, a post that deserves it.

The global time difference plays a huge factor in all of this too, plus the fact that I am very busy and tired right now.

I wish you all well,

Sam Oram (yes my real name, not a faceless unidentifiable user name)

TSherbs
September 7th, 2016, 06:38 PM
...I see this as a nothing more than a forum for people to talk happily about what they love without all the schoolyard crap.

You are in the majority here (sometimes a silent group, but growing in voice now) with this point of view. I don't understand why you think that this means that you are not welcome, but I have not understood a lot of this. But talking happily about pen stuff that we love IS the BEST reason to be here (IMO).

:grouphug: :grouphug:

Farmboy
September 7th, 2016, 11:01 PM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?

lsmith42
September 8th, 2016, 02:14 AM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?

Something should be kilt... quickly and quietly...

naimitsu
September 8th, 2016, 08:33 AM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?

Something should be kilt... quickly and quietly...

A kilt-kilt, a plaid-kilt, or a utility-kilt?


And to get back on topic... I was wondering if it was just me turning into an infrequent lurker lately that has caused the Sales forum to explode. Now I know... but since the explosion, I've started going through to the end of the unread threads in there. To make sure I don't get myself confused, I use the Thread Tool and mark all as Read, so only the ones with new activity bolds up the next time I peruse.

penwash
September 8th, 2016, 08:53 AM
I've never been on Reddit. So I know nothing about it.

Chrissy,
It's about 50-50 chances that you will either love it or just absolutely disgusted by it :)

We can't be the only two FPGeeks on there, but so far I think only Jon and I survive the sometimes "uber-juvenile" jokes and the absolute fixation on Pilot Metro and EDC concept.

But beneath that, what made me enjoy the reddit fountainpen group is that the (mostly) younger generation are quick to apologize, generous with each other, ask honest questions, and they are not afraid to be vulnerable.

We all here could learn from them.

Oh, and most of them are totally into inks. They could use some of your expertise! :thumb:

Jon Szanto
September 8th, 2016, 10:05 AM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?

I've seen your legs. Don't even think about it.

TSherbs
September 8th, 2016, 01:48 PM
...and they are not afraid to be vulnerable.

I know that you were responding to someone else with this, but I was surprised by this as a recommendation for behavior on the internet. I highly recommend against this on the internet, especially for women (unfortunately, they are more often targeted).

"Vulnerability" is, indeed, an important courageous position and attitude, but this is typically not the recommendation for how to behave with anonymous strangers on the internet. This is reserved most often, and more wisely, for our interactions in the narrower physical worlds that we engage in, in person, where trust and respect can be more reliably earned. There are trolling predators and persons with all sorts of masked issues swimming the forums of the web. We all know this. Take care and be safe and moderate and ONLY post where and when you are not making yourself unwisely vulnerable. And God bless.

penwash
September 8th, 2016, 04:11 PM
...and they are not afraid to be vulnerable.

I know that you were responding to someone else with this, but I was surprised by this as a recommendation for behavior on the internet. I highly recommend against this on the internet, especially for women (unfortunately, they are more often targeted).

"Vulnerability" is, indeed, an important courageous position and attitude, but this is typically not the recommendation for how to behave with anonymous strangers on the internet. This is reserved most often, and more wisely, for our interactions in the narrower physical worlds that we engage in, in person, where trust and respect can be more reliably earned. There are trolling predators and persons with all sorts of masked issues swimming the forums of the web. We all know this. Take care and be safe and moderate and ONLY post where and when you are not making yourself unwisely vulnerable. And God bless.

It's being vulnerable as far as fountain pens.
Something like "I lost my only pen, not feeling so cheery today"

You are correct about predators taking advantage of people's vulnerability, but that is not at all what crossed my mind when I type my post earlier :)

KKay
September 8th, 2016, 08:09 PM
I rarely look at things on sale, so I haven't noticed an uptick there. I guess I have missed seeing friction, for the most part here. I thought (and still do) it was a great place to talk about pens, paper, and ink. I think the world is a stressful place, and some of it is bound to spill over into forums. I have met some very fine people here, and I like it here. Personally I don't care who sells what, and how often. Hopefully they are selling the pens at a good price, and are respectable. I would hesitate to buy from someone who is not a regular on here, but that's just me. I have learned a lot on here, and enjoy dropping in for a visit. I don't know when I stop being a newbie, but I bought my first fountain pen about a year ago now. Places like this have helped me so much. I thank you all very much for all the help you've given me, or other new people.

Scooby921
September 9th, 2016, 06:37 AM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?
Serious question? Because I own one from Sport Kilt and can say that the quality is quite good and it's very comfortable to wear. Not quite traditional with a velcro waist, but it does make it much easier to get in and out of and is also flexible should your waist size increase or decrease a bit.

Brilliant Bill
September 9th, 2016, 08:10 AM
Well said, Sherbs.

Or as Shorty Weber, an ex-con in an old-time radio episode once said, "There are a lot of wrong guys out there."





...and they are not afraid to be vulnerable.

I know that you were responding to someone else with this, but I was surprised by this as a recommendation for behavior on the internet. I highly recommend against this on the internet, especially for women (unfortunately, they are more often targeted).

"Vulnerability" is, indeed, an important courageous position and attitude, but this is typically not the recommendation for how to behave with anonymous strangers on the internet. This is reserved most often, and more wisely, for our interactions in the narrower physical worlds that we engage in, in person, where trust and respect can be more reliably earned. There are trolling predators and persons with all sorts of masked issues swimming the forums of the web. We all know this. Take care and be safe and moderate and ONLY post where and when you are not making yourself unwisely vulnerable. And God bless.

ethernautrix
September 10th, 2016, 05:12 AM
Shhh... as an kilt-donning armadillo who scrabbled over the U.S./Canada border under cover of darkness, I recommend vulnerability and a thick skin anywhere.

And maybe a pocketknife. Or keys before your clawfingers.

As for the topic... I am seldom interested in the sales thread, although sometimes peek out of curiosity, and I wondered if this question would lead to coding New Content to exclude the classifieds (as was done some years ago on fpn), just as it now excludes the Politics, Religion, and Society thread.

Frank
September 10th, 2016, 12:33 PM
Anyone know where I can get a kilt?

Don't go there! ;)

Frank

Woody
September 12th, 2016, 08:58 AM
Only lately I've sold a couple of pens as I'm wetting my photography interest. I'll be asking about a Photobox soon. I do enjoy the ink reviews and repair sections. I just like looking at pens actually, and maybe a trade or two. The other sites are primarily vintage, and on FPN they're just correcting some of their short comings. But I think the increase in traffic is that the For Sale section on this site caters to the $50 to $200 which is far and away the demographic of what folks can afford these days.

Marsilius
September 12th, 2016, 11:37 PM
Only lately I've sold a couple of pens as I'm wetting my photography interest. I'll be asking about a Photobox soon. I do enjoy the ink reviews and repair sections. I just like looking at pens actually, and maybe a trade or two. The other sites are primarily vintage, and on FPN they're just correcting some of their short comings. But I think the increase in traffic is that the For Sale section on this site caters to the $50 to $200 which is far and away the demographic of what folks can afford these days.
Good point. That is about my range without getting in trouble of losing the house.
I have been enjoying window shopping that range, I confess, but don't tell anyone.

Alchemist
September 18th, 2016, 11:34 AM
Here's my two cents on the original question. I just started using fountain pens a couple of years ago, and have found this forum to be a great source of information. I don't feel like I'm very knowledgeable about FPs, so I haven't contributed much to the forums yet.

To my knowledge, the nearest brick and mortar store with a decent selection of pens is at least 2 hours from where I live. So as I've gotten more into the hobby, I've made most of my purchase online. Inevitably I've purchased some pens that don't fit my writing style and needs, so I needed a place to sell them. I'd much rather do that here than on ebay. And to be honest, it's easier to do here than on some of the other FP forums, which require a lot of posts before you're allowed to sell. I have bought and sold several pens on FPG, and have found the transactions to be uniformly satisfying. I have tried to be as honest as possible when selling, and have priced my pens reasonably - I'm not trying to make money here, just trying to recover some of it to reinvest in new pens. I generally include some "extras" when selling a pen (usually a hand-made leather pen sleeve), and always let the buyer know that I will accept returns if they're not satisfied. And I feel that I've always been treated generously when buying or trading items on FPG as well.

To make a long story longer, FPG has been a great tool in helping me explore the FP hobby. I appreciate that the members are so willing to share their knowledge and experience, and I will try to do that more as well. And the sales threads have been a blessing in helping me afford to continue to explore the hobby.

pajaro
September 18th, 2016, 04:50 PM
I learned a lot from FPN, but when they changed the sales to four pens a month for gold members that was a deterent. I had decided to dump most pens, but ended up selling only on ebay, and seldom. I check this site daily for something interesting. Sometimes there is something.

I found a lot of orthodoxy on FPN and an unwillingness to investigate a new idea, except to regurgitate orthodox ideas. Perhaps it's better to be more freewheeling and less constrained by parental management.

usk15
September 20th, 2016, 03:36 AM
Depict there are many sale adverts, it looks like there not too many sold.
Maybe the market is over-saturated?

I do have some pens for sale, but only to get other pens and pen paraphernalia...

dankdan63
September 20th, 2016, 07:43 PM
Howdy- I hope you don't mind my jumping in here. I usually just lurk and read a LOT from this site.

My hobby largely consists of bottom feeding off of Ebay. I really don't have the money to buy many of the items that get posted on sites like this (I chose a job for satisfaction rather than money) and have a daughter in college. I do buy a number of pens that are about ready to fall off of the edge of the earth and get them back writing again (you should see me Safford Fifth Avenue collection!- great little pens that nobody wants by the way).

I have been active on message boards before in other places and my opinion is, as a site grows, it often alienates many of the old timers because the place inevitably changes from when there were just a few dozen people and really- in an intimate (for a message board) setting it's nice to be around at that time, but things do change.

Based on my observations, much of this seems cyclical and you bounce from periods of time where it goes from everyone loving each other to conflict and back and back...

I've seen a few replies that seemed a bit curt and kind of raised an eyebrow, but let's be realistic, maybe I just read something that way? I mean- from what I see, most conflict comes, not from people being jerks, but from people sort of half hearing something and replying to it which seems off, so the person replies and the two don't connect and it escalates.

My message? I guess as a place (thing?) like this grows, we sort of find corners and niches. The bigger places often get the most traffic and the most good and bad interactions. Sometimes we find a corner with a half dozen regulars we know and it's nice to stay in touch.

Bottom line, I hope this place never gets actively monitored because that often creates more conflict than it was trying to fix.

Anyway- thanks. I don't usually post much but something in my head said, "I've lived through this before". We'll all live and as was stated earlier, this is a message board. It can be picked up and put down whenever we choose.

Now smile dammit... I enjoy and get a lot from this place, and assume you all do too or you wouldn't have stuck around. The pluses outweigh the minuses.

dan

P.s.- if you're still reading to the end, I'm impressed!

pajaro
September 22nd, 2016, 06:00 PM
Depict there are many sale adverts, it looks like there not too many sold.
Maybe the market is over-saturated?

I do have some pens for sale, but only to get other pens and pen paraphernalia...

Some prices are pretty high. The market might be getting saturated. I have found that most of the pens I bought after discovering pen forums and then learning about the existence of various pens have been a bit disappointing. I have stopped buying.

Frank
September 23rd, 2016, 08:13 AM
I learned a lot from FPN, but when they changed the sales to four pens a month for gold members that was a deterent. I had decided to dump most pens, but ended up selling only on ebay, and seldom. I check this site daily for something interesting. Sometimes there is something.

I found a lot of orthodoxy on FPN and an unwillingness to investigate a new idea, except to regurgitate orthodox ideas. Perhaps it's better to be more freewheeling and less constrained by parental management.


It was actually a big motivator for me to go retail after years of selling vintage pens.....
I did find eBay sales OK, but missed the warm feeling of selling items to people I knew, and knew ME!
Now I sell items through my eCommerce store- perhaps I should be thanking FPN??

Frank ;)

Woody
September 26th, 2016, 08:59 AM
Well - I look at it this way. If people come here to sell their pens - at the VERY LEAST they are coming to FPG. If they want to contribute to the community even better. It's all about visits (hits) to the website -- and if something interest those people selling - that's a bonus for FPG.

dfo
September 28th, 2016, 04:20 PM
Well - I look at it this way. If people come here to sell their pens - at the VERY LEAST they are coming to FPG. If they want to contribute to the community even better. It's all about visits (hits) to the website -- and if something interest those people selling - that's a bonus for FPG.

I am of the same opinion. I also think that threads like this will help people realize that there is more to FPG than selling pens. I left FPN early last year after the Dr. Dean/FPN spat. Though I have not posted here much, this thread has renewed my interest.

catbert
September 28th, 2016, 11:08 PM
The Pen Addict podcast (https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/224) could be having an effect on traffic to the classifieds. About half an hour into the latest episode there's some discussion about where to sell pens. Brad Dowdy's first choice was FPG classifieds. He called us 'the most reasonable group of people on a selling channel'. :) Not the first time FPG has been recommended.

Another quote: 'So, if you're looking to sell a pen and never done it before, go to FP Geeks and browse around. See how other people are doing it, see what the community's like.'


(No affiliation - just a podcast listener and sometime purchaser of Nock products.)

earthdawn
September 28th, 2016, 11:35 PM
The Pen Addict podcast (https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/224) could be having an effect on traffic to the classifieds. About half an hour into the latest episode there's some discussion about where to sell pens. Brad Dowdy's first choice was FPG classifieds. He called us 'the most reasonable group of people on a selling channel'. :) Not the first time FPG has been recommended.

Another quote: 'So, if you're looking to sell a pen and never done it before, go to FP Geeks and browse around. See how other people are doing it, see what the community's like.'


(No affiliation - just a podcast listener and sometime purchaser of Nock products.)

That is a very very good point. Brads reach is with the podcast is quite large.

Jon Szanto
September 28th, 2016, 11:53 PM
That is a very very good point. Brads reach with the podcast is quite large.

It would be interesting to know if he has a business relationship with the owner. These days, it seems as there are very few blogs that aren't sponsored or financially propped up in some way by vendors or retailers in this hobby/industry. I'm finding it harder to differentiate between people who have a love of this arena and people who are in it for financial reasons, and/or some muddy middle-ground betwixt the two.

A topic for another thread, I suppose, but since it went in that direction...

(I, too, am a proud user of one of Mr. Dowdy's products. As if such a disclaimer were necessary...)

Sailor Kenshin
September 29th, 2016, 08:06 AM
I have a blog. You will not see a single ad on it.

You probably also won't see a single reader. :baby:

Jon Szanto
September 29th, 2016, 09:15 AM
I have a blog. You will not see a single ad on it.

And I believe you pre-date this trend, as what I've noticed is approximately 3 or so years old.

Sailor Kenshin
September 29th, 2016, 11:40 AM
I have a blog. You will not see a single ad on it.

And I believe you pre-date this trend, as what I've noticed is approximately 3 or so years old.


I am confused...but that's nothing new.

earthdawn
September 29th, 2016, 12:01 PM
That is a very very good point. Brads reach with the podcast is quite large.

It would be interesting to know if he has a business relationship with the owner. These days, it seems as there are very few blogs that aren't sponsored or financially propped up in some way by vendors or retailers in this hobby/industry. I'm finding it harder to differentiate between people who have a love of this arena and people who are in it for financial reasons, and/or some muddy middle-ground betwixt the two.

A topic for another thread, I suppose, but since it went in that direction...

(I, too, am a proud user of one of Mr. Dowdy's products. As if such a disclaimer were necessary...)


No Jon... Brad does not have a business relationship with Eric. They have met once I think.

When things are "nice" and people "enjoy" a place in this community they openly share it.

Eric has no need nor interest in $ from the site. He pays the bill and moderates when and where he can.

I tell people and invite people on a consistent basis. Especially when I am at the shows.

Jon Szanto
September 29th, 2016, 12:35 PM
No Jon... Brad does not have a business relationship with Eric. They have met once I think.

Okey-doke. Just wondering aloud.. And I just got back from the gym, having listened to this specific podcast while I was trying to convince my body it was younger and stronger than it actually is, so I'm up to speed, specifically, on Brad's discussion of the forum (as well as Myke's hesitancy to have anything to do with selling pens. ;)


When things are "nice" and people "enjoy" a place in this community they openly share it. Eric has no need nor interest in $ from the site. He pays the bill and moderates when and where he can.
I tell people and invite people on a consistent basis. Especially when I am at the shows.

Please, try not to read things into my post, or make implications, that aren't there. I've been remarking on this place for many years in a positive vein, and anyone who knows my history here knows I am a strong FPG supporter. There is a difference between casual mention, and those who seek to have wider influence, are interconnected with suppliers, retailers, and manufacturers, as well as those who simply want to be personalities in a new arena (a friend coined the term penselebrity. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you've been in this "community" for a number of years, the changes taking place are not just worth noting, but worthy of discussion. Well, IMHO. YMMV.

Oh, look, a new pen all inked up and letters to write! Seeya...

Jon Szanto
September 29th, 2016, 12:37 PM
I am confused...but that's nothing new.

Sailor, I just meant that you've had your blog up for quite a while, and you aren't one of the newer generation that has sponsors, and ads, and podcasts, and a video channel, etc. You have a true, basic enthusiasts site, and that is a good thing.

Sailor Kenshin
September 29th, 2016, 01:41 PM
I am confused...but that's nothing new.

Sailor, I just meant that you've had your blog up for quite a while, and you aren't one of the newer generation that has sponsors, and ads, and podcasts, and a video channel, etc. You have a true, basic enthusiasts site, and that is a good thing.


Yay! I haz a happyz. :)

earthdawn
September 29th, 2016, 02:08 PM
Okey-doke. Just wondering aloud.. And I just got back from the gym, having listened to this specific podcast while I was trying to convince my body it was younger and stronger than it actually is, so I'm up to speed, specifically, on Brad's discussion of the forum (as well as Myke's hesitancy to have anything to do with selling pens. ;)


When things are "nice" and people "enjoy" a place in this community they openly share it. Eric has no need nor interest in $ from the site. He pays the bill and moderates when and where he can.
I tell people and invite people on a consistent basis. Especially when I am at the shows.

Please, try not to read things into my post, or make implications, that aren't there. I've been remarking on this place for many years in a positive vein, and anyone who knows my history here knows I am a strong FPG supporter. There is a difference between casual mention, and those who seek to have wider influence, are interconnected with suppliers, retailers, and manufacturers, as well as those who simply want to be personalities in a new arena (a friend coined the term penselebrity. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you've been in this "community" for a number of years, the changes taking place are not just worth noting, but worthy of discussion. Well, IMHO. YMMV.

Oh, look, a new pen all inked up and letters to write! Seeya...

No problem Jon.... You mentioned it as a question and I knew the answer so I interjected. Nothing more nothing less and had nothing to do with you or looking deeper into it.

Jon Szanto
September 29th, 2016, 02:34 PM
No problem Jon...


http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/bouncers.gif

Woody
September 30th, 2016, 10:55 AM
The Podcast has created traffic - and FPN is still in the midst of rolling out their new Classified structure. I have no idea what that is going to look like - but I'm optimistic that it will be fair. At the moment the Classifieds are weighted more to serious and comprehensive sellers who have purchased the Top Tier in the selling program. So we'll see. Glad our classifieds are doing well. I have much interest in them.

Empty_of_Clouds
October 13th, 2016, 11:11 PM
I am on the verge of getting off the fence and selling my one and only (and ever) Franklin Christoph 66 (model 66, antique glass, Masuyama medium italic). Having read this thread though it looks as though I should hawk somewhere other than here?

Most of the pens that I have been unfortunate to have stepped into the path of have either gone on eBay (a handful, usually at massive losses) or been given away. I've talked about my difficulties at tedious length elsewhere and at various times. Now I find I am resolved. I've got nothing noteworthy left apart from a Pilot 823, a vintage Aurora 88P, and a cobbled together Waterman 52. The rest is just... well, not worth keeping. Once they're gone, so am I. From FPN too. Time to engage in more productive areas of life. I would like to say that being part of these forums has been a positive experience, but that wouldn't be true. There are a few genuinely nice people here and there, only a few though. I'm sure most, if you gave it any thought, would think the same of me. Too bad.

Jon Szanto
October 13th, 2016, 11:17 PM
I am on the verge of getting off the fence and selling my one and only (and ever) Franklin Christoph 66 (model 66, antique glass, Masuyama medium italic). Having read this thread though it looks as though I should hawk somewhere other than here?

No, that wasn't my intent at all. I'm certain you can realize that. My point was there had been a large influx of people to the forum, coming here only to sell pens, and not taking part in the forum in any other way. Treating it like a meat market.

You, on the other hand, have been here a long time, know many people, and many people know you. You've helped to build the fabric and content of the community, and you have every right to utilize the Sales Forum as you see fit.

I'm sorry that you are feeling a need to leave, but people tend to come and go, myself included. My hope is that it will end up, if anything, as an extended break. And please hold onto at least some pens that you enjoy, because that pleasure should never be given up: your thoughts, flowing through ink and nib, onto paper.

Empty_of_Clouds
October 13th, 2016, 11:26 PM
Hello Jon.

Your sentiments, while well meaning, are likely way off the mark. I sincerely doubt that I'm held in anything other than barely concealed (often even not concealed) contempt by most who have interacted with me here - and perhaps with good cause.

For the rest, it's a pragmatic thing. You guys have it easy over there; revel in it. Here... the word futility applies. On the plus side I live in one of the most beautiful and peaceful countries on Earth. So there is that.

The forum... well, I could count those who have been a joy to get know on the fingers of one hand.

No, I know when I'm beaten.

Jon Szanto
October 13th, 2016, 11:49 PM
I've done what I can, with open heart. You already know how to be in touch with me outside of the forum. I bid you peace.

Empty_of_Clouds
October 13th, 2016, 11:58 PM
'Preciate it. So long, Jon.

penwash
October 14th, 2016, 08:00 AM
Hello Jon.

Your sentiments, while well meaning, are likely way off the mark. I sincerely doubt that I'm held in anything other than barely concealed (often even not concealed) contempt by most who have interacted with me here - and perhaps with good cause.

For the rest, it's a pragmatic thing. You guys have it easy over there; revel in it. Here... the word futility applies. On the plus side I live in one of the most beautiful and peaceful countries on Earth. So there is that.

The forum... well, I could count those who have been a joy to get know on the fingers of one hand.

No, I know when I'm beaten.

EoC, I for one think it would be a loss not to have you here chiming in and posting.
But I also realize as Jon said, people come and go.

In the last few weeks, I've had young professionals from Australia buying pens from me, so I think there is a lot of interest on fountain pens over on your part of the globe. You also have Robert Osters making inks that people here in the US clamor upon.

What I'm trying to say is, there is always things that is looking up, it depends on which perspective we're putting on at any given moment.
So I hope that one day you'll be back here again.

MY63
October 14th, 2016, 12:41 PM
Empty of clouds I am sorry to hear that you are moving on I think you have made a valid contribution although being honest I never did get the third person stuff but I respected your right to be an individual.😄
I am sure there are many here myself included who cannot afford to buy the latest pens the only new pen I have bought in the last few years was a Lamy for my daughters birthday. However your writing is good and so is your photography and as you say you live in such a beautiful place you could take a break from searching for pens and wow us with pictures.

I don't normally post on this type of thread but we need people of character and no I am not going to write a list.
What ever you do I wish you well.

Michael

lsmith42
October 17th, 2016, 09:19 AM
My racing instructor used to tell me to always look toward where I wanted to go, even when the car was out of control. Most people will look toward where they don't want to go, and end up hitting the tree they were hoping to avoid.

To him (or her) who has ears, let him hear...

Farmboy
October 17th, 2016, 08:45 PM
My racing instructor used to tell me to always look toward where I wanted to go, even when the car was out of control. Most people will look toward where they don't want to go, and end up hitting the tree they were hoping to avoid.

To him (or her) who has ears, let him hear...
I keep looking at the Sonny stuff here and hope it will end up in your garage.

I have ink for you...

Lady Onogaro
October 17th, 2016, 09:59 PM
I am confused...but that's nothing new.

Sailor, I just meant that you've had your blog up for quite a while, and you aren't one of the newer generation that has sponsors, and ads, and podcasts, and a video channel, etc. You have a true, basic enthusiasts site, and that is a good thing.


Yay! I haz a happyz. :)

I love your ink comparison scans. They are so sharp (in terms of pictures). Thank you for them.

Sailor Kenshin
October 18th, 2016, 09:57 AM
I am confused...but that's nothing new.

Sailor, I just meant that you've had your blog up for quite a while, and you aren't one of the newer generation that has sponsors, and ads, and podcasts, and a video channel, etc. You have a true, basic enthusiasts site, and that is a good thing.


Yay! I haz a happyz. :)

I love your ink comparison scans. They are so sharp (in terms of pictures). Thank you for them.


And thanks to YOU...I checked my blog today, discovered that the latest ink blob picture had mysteriously vanished. It's back now. Keeping a jaundiced eye on it.

New inks came in. More blobs forthcoming. ;)

Pterodactylus
November 21st, 2016, 12:39 PM
What I do not like is to see all this "Sale" and "Want to Buy or Trade" posts in the "New Posts" page.
They block my sight to the "real" content posts.

My suggestion would be to remove those sub forums from the "New Posts".

Imho all these guys which never contributed to FPG and just registered to sell their stuff do no not enrich this community.

Beside that I would not buy anything from a unknown new member, even more if they demand direct payment without PayPal (as I saw several times), which removes any buyer protection.

I think the opposite is true, if somebody made a bad experience buying a pen from FPG it will harm the community.

So I would support enabling a entry limit for sales on the site, like at least 6 months membership and more than 50 posts.

Jon Szanto
November 21st, 2016, 01:25 PM
What I do not like is to see all this "Sale" and "Want to Buy or Trade" posts in the "New Posts" page.
They block my sight to the "real" content posts.

My suggestion would be to remove those sub forums from the "New Posts".

Well, the problem is that the owner/admin of the site has - seemingly - completely stopped paying attention whatsoever. Nothing will change, certainly not by people asking for it.

The easiest solution I've found, since the link I keep to this site is a shortcut to the "What's New" listing, is the following:


When the site comes up, look for the first sale item
In the far right column, click on the "For Sale" link, which brings up the "For Sale" sub-forum
When there, look to the right for "Forum Tools", click on "Mark This Forum Read"
Then click on "What's New" and all the sales items will be gone.

It's a few extra clicks and a few seconds of time, but it makes it easier for me to see the threads I am wanting to read. If I ever feel a need to browse sales, I just go to that sub-forum.

HTH,
Jon

adhoc
December 10th, 2016, 03:07 AM
I've been lurking this forum for about a year now, but only recently signed up. I am thinking of selling some of my pens from my collection. Would it be OK for me to post an ad in the classifieds, even if I don't have many posts yet? From what I see, some of you are against new(ish) members to post in classified. Thanks for feedback.

TSherbs
December 10th, 2016, 06:45 AM
sure, why not?

I am not aware of any rules to the contrary

welcome, and good luck!

jar
December 10th, 2016, 07:57 AM
I've been lurking this forum for about a year now, but only recently signed up. I am thinking of selling some of my pens from my collection. Would it be OK for me to post an ad in the classifieds, even if I don't have many posts yet? From what I see, some of you are against new(ish) members to post in classified. Thanks for feedback.

I don't think it is as much being against newish members posting in classifieds as a twofold issue. First if someone does not regularly join in discussions it's hard to make a judgement about factors like "Is he one of them folk that keep monkeying with a pen?" or "Is that the guy that is always pressing too hard and flexing nibs?" or "Is that the guy who is always showing those perfect pens?". Second is the fact that the primary purpose of the board is discussion not selling; when someone shows up and uses the board only as a sales outlet yet never contributes to the primary function of the forum is the person really someone who like and learns about fountain pens or are the offerings just commodities?

TSherbs
December 10th, 2016, 09:54 AM
....Second is the fact that the primary purpose of the board is discussion not selling; ....

Well, not for me.

I have made many posts, but I now primarily come here just out of curiosity about possible pen deals. The more the merrier, as far as I am concerned. This board has not stated a "primary purpose" that I could find anywhere, and certainly when Dan was moderating and running it, there was a lot of new information about pens, with reviewing and purchasing in mind. The "purpose" of this rather unstructured and un-moderated board is now whatever each forum member decides it is and however each of us uses it. To each, her own. Caveat emptor.

adhoc
December 10th, 2016, 10:54 AM
I've been lurking this forum for about a year now, but only recently signed up. I am thinking of selling some of my pens from my collection. Would it be OK for me to post an ad in the classifieds, even if I don't have many posts yet? From what I see, some of you are against new(ish) members to post in classified. Thanks for feedback.

I don't think it is as much being against newish members posting in classifieds as a twofold issue. First if someone does not regularly join in discussions it's hard to make a judgement about factors like "Is he one of them folk that keep monkeying with a pen?" or "Is that the guy that is always pressing too hard and flexing nibs?" or "Is that the guy who is always showing those perfect pens?". Second is the fact that the primary purpose of the board is discussion not selling; when someone shows up and uses the board only as a sales outlet yet never contributes to the primary function of the forum is the person really someone who like and learns about fountain pens or are the offerings just commodities?

I completely understand that, but some of us love to read discussions and opinions and feel like our opinion doesn't really matter. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy the community, au contraire, I spend a lot of time here, but I rarely ever post, for example. And like a poster below you said, gotta always be on the look out for a sweet pen deal :-)

Quantum Sailor
December 10th, 2016, 03:15 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread but I'll throw my two cents in. I have been slowly MIA for the last year or so. I dropped to posting maybe once a month and now look every few months.

That being said there are still a group of amazing people on this forum. I have enjoyed discussing pens and have great respect for many of you. I was put off by a collection of specific threads by a few people that were borderline disturbing in my opinion. Combine that with what has already been pointed out as a complete lack of interest in doing anything by the owner, I even offered to make a front end web site at one point to help keep things going but never heard back, and I assumed that the intent was to let this board move to just being a classifieds board that ran itself.

I have also started lurking on the reddit fountain pen subreddits as my work has me participating over there anyway.

As for the actions of people making others feel like they aren't important if I had a part in that I apologize. I also saw some trends towards political inclusions that I wished no part in and try to avoid.

I'm not bailing completely here I like seeing the updates of people I have spoken with. Who knows maybe the board will turn around and become something like it once was.

grainweevil
December 11th, 2016, 04:41 AM
The easiest solution I've found, since the link I keep to this site is a shortcut to the "What's New" listing, is the following:


When the site comes up, look for the first sale item
In the far right column, click on the "For Sale" link, which brings up the "For Sale" sub-forum
When there, look to the right for "Forum Tools", click on "Mark This Forum Read"
Then click on "What's New" and all the sales items will be gone.

It's a few extra clicks and a few seconds of time, but it makes it easier for me to see the threads I am wanting to read. If I ever feel a need to browse sales, I just go to that sub-forum.

HTH,
Jon

Further to this useful suggestion, rather counter-intuitively I've now switched my shortcut for this site to start at the Classifieds (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/7-Classifieds), then I double click the icon to the left of sales and wanted sub-fora with new posts I don't wish to see to "mark them as read", and then I click on the "What's New" link at the top of the page. Seems, so far, to be the most efficient way to avoid the posts in all three commercial sub-fora with the minimum page loading, clicking, or scrolling. FWIW.

sharmon202
December 12th, 2016, 03:44 PM
For me, this turning into a primary sales forum is off putting. I will try the instructions for minimizing sales posts, just not liking it taking precedent, by volume, over normal discourse.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

FredRydr
December 12th, 2016, 04:19 PM
If people would just stop buying stuff!!

Fred