Why so very few postings about inexpensive Chinese pens?

[k3eax]

'Nuff said in the posting's heading?

[jar]

My guess is lack of interest.

[stub]

Post about them if you want.

I don't post about them as I have zero interest and nothing to say about Chinese pens but if you dig them and have something to discuss go for it.

It is really that simple.

[Sailor Kenshin]

'Nuff said in the posting's heading?

*shrugs*.

I have a lot of them, and today's rotation includes two Hero 616s, a Jinhao x750 fude, and another fude (I'm ink-testing). There is almost always at least one inked 616.

For a while, especially during the heyday of isellpens, I specialized in cheap Chinese pens, but branched out into Sailors, MBs and both Pilot and Platinum's lower-end offerings, when I came to realize big, heavy, metal-bodied pens were not for me.

[Jon Szanto]

Because it makes FPG feel less like reddit.

[gbryal]

There are postings about Chinese pens all of the time it seems. I always find them interesting.

If anyone knows what the trends for fountain pens are in Taiwan right now, I think that would be fascinating. In the US, we know about the pens someone chooses to import, or certain models of Jinhao or Hero that glut eBay. I go to Jinhao's site sometimes to see what's new, but since I don't read Chinese I really have no idea what is going on.

I don't regard these as lesser pens on the whole. Some particular models have consistent pathologies, but I find they are often exaggerated.

The fascination with brass bodies and a lack of nib options is what holds me back from adding more to my hoard. I find the brass pens a bit too heavy for my taste.

What are the true gems of the Chinese pen world? I'd like to see more large, interesting pens like the Wing Sung 590, gold tipped pens like the Hero 100, 1000. Some of the Kaigelu (Shanghai by way of Australia) have interesting acrylic.

[dfo]

Because it makes FPG feel less like reddit.

There are posts about Chinese pens on FPG. However, as Jon mentions, Reddit is filled with them. Reddit has a substantial amount of first time to fountain pen users who post about their purchases, and Chinese pens and other inexpensive pens make up the majority of these posts.

[Brilliant Bill]

I can't speak for anyone else. For myself, I don't do a lot of posting about anything. However, since you asked about "inexpensive Chinese pens..."

First, I have a hard time accepting that you can manufacture and ship a pen to the U.S. for $3 or so without abusing people. I can accept that designs can be copied once they no longer have legal protection; that saves a lot of cost. It has an unsavory feel to it, but it's legal. But there is still labor involved, and I believe anyone's labor should be compensated fairly. As T-Bone Burnett says we still practice slavery, only now it's global. He suggests that each of us in the U.S. have two or three slaves around the world that enable us to buy things at such prices. I would rather not participate in that to the extent I can avoid it. I'm much happier paying $30 for a Lamy Safari knowing the people who produced it were paid a reasonable wage.

Second, as I've said for many years, I simply don't like cheap crap. Producing junk is a disservice to the human spirit. I decided to try one cheap Chinese pen; I bought a Jinhao 159 for around $12 I think. It tends to mimic the Mont Blanc 149 and to some extent the Sailor KOP. I do not mind if something fails on the form side, and this one surely does, but to fail on the function side is unacceptable. The pen rarely writes without trouble -- hard starts, skipping, running dry after not so long. The converter is loose in fit, hard to twist and somewhat bent. What I'd like to do is put it in the trash, but I have a hard time wasting even a bad pen. My plan is to take it to a pen show and offer it to anyone who might want it. The fountain pen world has many kind people who might take in a wayward pen.

Finally, the cheap crap makers don't offer anything I can't get for the same or a little more money. I've got a bucket full of Platinum Preppy pens I use for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of ways. Around $4 each, they write well, and I never have problems letting them sit for a month between uses. Even Pilot has the little Petit 1, which looks like a toy, but it's one of my favorite pens. When posted, it's a great size, the grip section is a good size and comfortable, and the nibs are always Pilot perfect. Their only drawback is a proprietary cartridge, but for a good, perfectly functional fountain pen at $3.80, I don't care. Pilot is now selling the Kakuno in the U.S. market for around $12. It's cheap plastic and looks childish, but it's a perfectly serviceable and comfortable pen -- and the only one that smiles back at me! Sailor now sells in the U.S. their HighAce Neo in the 15-20 dollar range. Not to my liking because of the slender grip section, they are nevertheless very functional pens and good writers.

As Forrest Gump said, that's all I have to say about that.

[mrcharlie]

I don't have a lot to say/write about my super cheap Chinese pens. Most of them work with no problems or issues. A couple I've had to "fix" in some way, but then they are fine. For the crazy cheap price I can put up with that.

Re: the crazy cheap price; it is my understanding that overseas small parcel shipping is subsidized and the costs of some of the raw materials used to make the pens is also artificially low. Otherwise the prices make no sense; even with free labor they would be impossible. The costs of the subsidies are eventually borne by the Chinese people, and I have no idea of how that cost is distributed.

[kenshiro]

Personally, I think it's largely because they're sort of unremarkable, except for their price point. These are pens that push the envelope in the price/performance arena rather than in design or function, and while that's great for increasing the user base and providing some daily drivers, it's unusual to fall in love with such things, in the same way it's hard to fall in love with practical cars. We post about the things we have passion for, that we think are "special," and I don't know anyone passionate about beige Honda Accords. Posting about cheap Chinese pens when you're not excited about them isn't an act of enthusiasm but of journalism.

I feel largely the same about Indian pens, with which I've had a very mixed experience.

[k3eax]

Gawd brilliant Bill, this is just too prissy! It is written with a vehemence that suggests you place accuracy and honesty second to persuasion.

[Brilliant Bill]

Well said. Thanks.


Gawd brilliant Bill, this is just too prissy! It is written with a vehemence that suggests you place accuracy and honesty second to persuasion.

[top pen]

First off I want make it clear I don't have a problem with Chinese pens. I have several pens that fit under a similar price category. I think a lot of these pens (because of the price and ubiquitousness) lack the chase involved that other pens do. New pens that people seem to value the most are the pens they have had on there short list for ages, ones they have hunted high and low for, pens they've saved up for, for weeks on end. It's almost too easy when the pen is e.g. sub £10

[Sailor Kenshin]

Maybe the perception that people look down on Chinese pens has a quelling effect.

[VertOlive]

For what it's worth, I posted when I bought my Duke Bamboo and my Hero when I got them several years ago. Both great pens, and that was unusual among the dozen or so I've owned. Usually they are too heavy for my hand or the convertors fall apart the first week.

I gave the Hero away and then missed it so much I bought it again. I consider the Duke to be a "true gem" in Chinese pens, since gybral asked. The rest, except for the Duke were given away.

[Morgaine]

I was very much a Parker girl. I have Frontier, Vector and Reflex. The latter models were bought for less than the price of a Hero 616, in a discount shop. I used them with my first Diamine orders (after being just a Quink girl too). However, out of curiosity hearing about Jinhao in letters, I ordered a couple and haven't looked back. OK, the ones I bought were cold on a winter's morning, and heavy, but they feel a lot nicer than at my student/college aimed Reflex. They also wrote better. Some of the converters are not perfect either, but nor or the ones I've got for my Parkers. As can be seen in my pen photos thread, I did get a bit carried away. I carry my letter writing supplies with me most days, and the case I have for the pens is now rather heavy!

[jacksterp]

I have had two. One I gave to a friend and the other sits uninked.

Nothing bad to say about my experience with them - nothing out of the ordinary either.

[RocketRyan]

I quite enjoy the lottery of Chinese pens.
I actually have a Jinhao x450 which writes superb.

[penwash]

I don't like to talk about them because they don't seem to be eager to talk about themselves either.

Where are the facebook/instagram pages for JinHao, Baoer, Kaigelu, or even Hero, the oldest of them all?
Can customers can ask questions, comment, etc.? And get a response? Like TWSBI (which ironically is technically also a Chinese pen manufacturer).

That gives out the illusion that all they care about is to get our money, $3 at a time. I wish these Chinese pen manufacturers show more pride in their own products rather than just be content owning the cheapest-of-the-cheapest market segment.

To be fair, The Duke Bamboo and a few others are exceptions that elicit some desire in me to own one based on something other than "because it's cheap" and at least it seems like Duke brand seems to show some pride on their tradition and legacy, y'know, stuff that we expect from a quality fountain pen manufacturer.

And just in the remotest chance that they have people reading pen forums, for goodness sake, don't put brass barrels or innards in *every* pen, guys, there are a million exotic natural material types in China that you can creatively experiment, incorporate, and fashion to make awesome fountain pens with. How about a super thin jade outer shell with ebonite reinforcement? How about a porcelain pen that is not heavy? How about digging up and re-learning ancient Chinese lacquering techniques even before the Japanese made them popular? Or do something with bamboo that just blew our minds. Silk? Paper? Gourd skin? Sea shell? Copper? Terracota?

Do these and we'll talk, and you can have our money, $300 at a time :D

[gbryal]

I don't like to talk about them because they don't seem to be eager to talk about themselves either.


That's a good point. I don't use facebook or instagram but a regular customer-facing website in English would be welcome, and some kind of forum activity (which I guess I mostly just see from the Brian Grays and Shawn Newtons of the world).

The brass thing does get tiresome.

There are some pens that do some kind of cloisonne, though I haven't bought any so I don't know if it is real enamel or just silkscreen stuff.

[RocketRyan]

I think people just don't get exited about them.
I have two, a hero that I butchered into some type of italic just for fun and now love playing with, and a Jinhao x450. Don't tell the real Montblanc fans but I've actually put a medium nib from a 146 in it! Writes like a dream 😈. Generally with Chinese pens quality is hit and miss, but I find the good ones are really good.

[KrazyIvan]

I used to post about them a lot but I think lack of Chinese pen posts is a sign of a maturing forum community. They are good starter pens if you want to learn nib adjusting and grinding. That's what I used them for. I'll get one or two a year now, but it has to be a pretty compelling reason. The last 2 I purchased were for zebra G nib conversions.

[JFB]

I feel like they are the fountain pen equivalent of Bic Stics or the like. There have always been cheap bargain basement fountain pens made. They are good starter pens and 'workhorse" pens. Also, to be frank, not everyone can responsibly spend $200.00 or even $70.00 on a pen.

I bought a bunch of these cheap pens, in spite of my desire to not support totalitarian regimes—BLUSH, and I'm also buying vintage cheapie pens and learning to repair and modify them both.

As a rough guess, I'd say 70% of the Chinese pens I've bought are functioning, decent pens for practicing my handwriting, taking notes, and processing paperwork at my office. The bad plastic of many of the 992s is most disappointing.

I've had no luck with Baoer pens-or I should say Baoer nibs-they are corroding. I've noticed a lot of corrosion developing on Chinese nibs in general, that is what's turning me off to them. I'm trying figure out if it's something I've done or the ink or just the cheap metal.


In the fullness of time the prosaic becomes just as valuable as the exceptional.

Pax,
John

[KrazyIvan]

Almost a year passed and I think the Chinese pen market has changed a bit. Lingmo, WingSung and Delike have upped the bar and made things interesting for me again.

[Amanda]

I like the Wing Sung 3008 a lot, but don't talk about it here because there doesn't seem much interest, especially when compared to the highly active Chinese pen section of the forum at the Other Place.

[KrazyIvan]

I like the Wing Sung 3008 a lot, but don't talk about it here because there doesn't seem much interest, especially when compared to the highly active Chinese pen section of the forum at the Other Place.

It's all in one thread around here somewhere.

[Deb]

My main interest is vintage pens but I like Chinese pens too. They turn out good fine and extra-fine points.

[AzJon]

Largely because I don't support knock-off pens. I can understand a line paying homage to or drawing inspiration from other pens brands (How many variations of black cigar can you really make?), but with their blatant Lamy Safari ripoffs, low quality production (I broke the feed on a Jinhao 159 by putting the convertor into it), and generally unimpressive pens...There really is nothing special about them worth talking about, honestly. There has been some interesting buzz with the Wingsun 698 this past year that bears similarities to the TWSBI Eco, but has a super cool clear acrylic feed. That said, the overall opinion I've heard out there is that the plastic feels cheap and the overall experience is kinda "meh". So if the best these companies have to offer is "meh" as an experience...Why bother?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Largely because I don't support knock-off pens. I can understand a line paying homage to or drawing inspiration from other pens brands (How many variations of black cigar can you really make?), but with their blatant Lamy Safari ripoffs, low quality production (I broke the feed on a Jinhao 159 by putting the convertor into it), and generally unimpressive pens...There really is nothing special about them worth talking about, honestly. There has been some interesting buzz with the Wingsun 698 this past year that bears similarities to the TWSBI Eco, but has a super cool clear acrylic feed. That said, the overall opinion I've heard out there is that the plastic feels cheap and the overall experience is kinda "meh". So if the best these companies have to offer is "meh" as an experience...Why bother?

Because not every experience is 'meh.'

[Dragonmaster Lou]

Because not every experience is 'meh.'

I guess this is a case of "your mileage may vary," because I've had no real good experiences with the two Jinhaos I've had. Sure they've worked okay for a bit, but they both ended up falling apart after a couple of months of use.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Because not every experience is 'meh.'

I guess this is a case of "your mileage may vary," because I've had no real good experiences with the two Jinhaos I've had. Sure they've worked okay for a bit, but they both ended up falling apart after a couple of months of use.

Of course. But...If you've only had two, the chances of failure increae. ;)

Some of my Chinese pens are happily serving me decades later.

[AzJon]

Largely because I don't support knock-off pens. I can understand a line paying homage to or drawing inspiration from other pens brands (How many variations of black cigar can you really make?), but with their blatant Lamy Safari ripoffs, low quality production (I broke the feed on a Jinhao 159 by putting the convertor into it), and generally unimpressive pens...There really is nothing special about them worth talking about, honestly. There has been some interesting buzz with the Wingsun 698 this past year that bears similarities to the TWSBI Eco, but has a super cool clear acrylic feed. That said, the overall opinion I've heard out there is that the plastic feels cheap and the overall experience is kinda "meh". So if the best these companies have to offer is "meh" as an experience...Why bother?

Because not every experience is 'meh.'

Perhaps, but that would answer the original question: Why so very few postings about inexpensive Chinese pens? "Nothing worth writing home about," as they say.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Check the Jinhao 992 thread.

[AzJon]

Check the Jinhao 992 thread.

The one that talks about how to pre-emptively handle their fragility?

I'm not saying they are bad pens, just not terribly interesting.

Besides


don't support knock-off pens.

Being a knockoff Sailor falls squarely in my reasons.

[Gunderson]

So many well-known brands are little more than knock-offs of earlier designs that it seems odd to tar only the Chinese makers with this brush. Kinda sounds like its okay when we do it but not when someone else does it.

Agreed with Sailor Kenshin (great name btw). Had several Chinese pens over the years and only one had any issues. For the price they're hard to beat. Got a Baoer 388 that is just as good as a parker sonnet, maybe even better. In mine opinion.

Sides which, when talking bout quality just look back thru all the old threads where peeps are complaining of high end pens that leak, don't write, etc etc.

[Freddie]

I have not had any problems with the Chinese pens that I have or given to folks.
I urged you to consider one another's views with an open mind...you're not to give up
a Point Of View, however, that you conscientiously believe in..simply because you're
outnumbered or outweighed..........................

Fred
...I wish everyone peace..and concentrated effort towards good will...
{thanksspikey}

[Amanda]

Largely because I don't support knock-off pens. I can understand a line paying homage to or drawing inspiration from other pens brands (How many variations of black cigar can you really make?), but with their blatant Lamy Safari ripoffs, low quality production (I broke the feed on a Jinhao 159 by putting the convertor into it), and generally unimpressive pens...There really is nothing special about them worth talking about, honestly. There has been some interesting buzz with the Wingsun 698 this past year that bears similarities to the TWSBI Eco, but has a super cool clear acrylic feed. That said, the overall opinion I've heard out there is that the plastic feels cheap and the overall experience is kinda "meh". So if the best these companies have to offer is "meh" as an experience...Why bother?

That's why there are "so very few postings about inexpensive Chinese pens" here. Similar scorn heaped in any other interest area would kill conversation there too.

I got out my Wing Sung 698, and for good measure a Caliarts Ego and Wing Sung 3008, to compare to a couple of TWSBI Eco. Yes, they're all piston fill demonstrators, but beyond that they're different.

36029

[AzJon]

Ok, I get it. Y'all love your pens. A question was asked about why we don't see more posts, an answer was given (that isn't that far of a stretch), and the defenders rise up.


Similar scorn heaped in any other interest area would kill conversation there too.

Kind of a leap, don't you think? What scorn, beyond pointing out actual problems with the pens, do you reckon is being "heaped on"?


Edit: I'm fully willing to change my opinion on these pens. My experience with a few Dollar pens and a few Jinhaos were just not great. Maybe I need to give the 992 a fair shake (and the WS 698, since it is a newer pen that seems to be doing well).

On a positive note, I thought the Hero 616 was a pretty decent pen.

[Deb]

Dollar pens are not Chinese.

[SIR]

I'd be interested in cheap Chinese pens if they weren't blatant substandard attempts to copy another's design - I'd be interested in expensive Chinese pens if they were original and evolutionary, or even at least were of simple quality with just a touch of Chinese heritage, tradition, and culture.

The fact that they are cheap should not, in itself be off-putting; look at the price of Apple phones, they are well known for being made by Chinese labour in conditions which could equate to slavery and have even been reported to cause suicides.

For me, Chinese ebay pens simply look like tat (it's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing), and having bought and not so long after chucked an American pen at a price which would've bought 20 odd Chinese wannabes, I would rather just buy a Lamy Safari or Parker Vector if I want a simple 'cheap' pen.

[Dragonmaster Lou]

Of course. But...If you've only had two, the chances of failure increae. ;)

Some of my Chinese pens are happily serving me decades later.

True, hehe, but so far I'm two for two with failures and don't feel like pressing my luck unless I'm expecting the pen to be used as a borderline disposable. :)

If I had a few good ones up front before getting failures, then my opinion may differ. :)

[dam]

When I got back into fountain pens a decade or so ago, I bought a bunch of Chinese pens, based on rave reviews here and there (but mostly on fpn). I still have a few from that time, I've given away a bunch, but I've mostly lost interest in them. I did get a pack of Jinhao 992 a few months back and that didn't end well.
However, as Amanda pointed out, the new piston-fillers by Wing Sung and even Lanbitou (I got a 3059 and it actually works!) have somewhat revived my interest.

I am, however, puzzled by the die-hard Chinese pen fans who congregate at the other site to defend things like the Jinhao 992, a pen made of so brittle a material it cracks just by being looked at. That, I do not understand. It defeats the very idea and purpose of a fountain pen.

Getting back on topic, perhaps they are less discussed here because a lot of these pens have limited appeal as far as writing experience is concerned: hardly any nib choices, same nib on scores of models, shoddy converters, suspect quality control and most of all, the unwillingness to improve quality. For example, the crack prone plastic inner cap which has plagued the X450 is well known and has been well documented all over the place, but Jinhao has never fixed it. No incentive, as long as people keep buying them, right? I hate to encourage such a company (but once in a while, I do succumb to the hype and spend a few bucks on something I know is a mirage).

[Cyril]

I don't like to talk about them because they don't seem to be eager to talk about themselves either.


That's a good point. I don't use facebook or instagram but a regular customer-facing website in English would be welcome, and some kind of forum activity (which I guess I mostly just see from the Brian Grays and Shawn Newtons of the world).

The brass thing does get tiresome.

There are some pens that do some kind of cloisonne, though I haven't bought any so I don't know if it is real enamel or just silkscreen stuff.

I personally tried some Indian pens. Unfortunately the pens I tried were not the best in design. I never give up and I am hoping to try some other pens I have seen in this forum and else where. So concerning the Chinese pens I have tried a dozen of them some are well built than the Indien pens but the Chinese nibs are useless. So I had to find a replacement from JOWO or Bock to match the good quality writing.Now I have great writers from chinese adapted pen. There are lot of choises from the size and the weight once you know those chinese pens. So it is much cheaper and cost effective to find some good chinese pens. But this is my own personal knowledge and the interest in to writing instruments.

[matteob]

I actually think Chinese pens have a lot to offer, particularly for someone who is just starting out. A Jinhao for example is good value for money and not to be sniffed at. It writes well (if a little wet) and is solid. It can also be upgraded with a better nib and converter at minimal cost. The Chinese are not up with the European and Japanese brands yet but I think they will be in time. I think you are missing out if you don't at least try one. The cost is minimal.

@Cyril I have a Jinhao X750 with a Bock fine nib fitted and a very good pen it is too with agood sturdy brass construction. Indian handmade ebonite pens are nice and reliable if you get a cc/comverter Schmidt/Bock/ Jowo unit fitted. Ranga and Guider use those. Most Indian eyedropper nibs are rubbish (Wality etc) with the exception of Ambitious. I have a Ranga eyedropper with an Ambitious fine nib fitted and it is probably the smoothest fine nib I own. A truly wonderful nib.

[KrazyIvan]

I was looking for a Moonman M1 but found this instead. A real wood barrel and brass section/cap. (Instagram keeps killing the image link so here is a permanent link: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfOS0z_lkmo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://scontent-dfw5-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/4b1fa950f1f5ba5fd7b69e6acdd99cbb/5CC54D62/t51.2885-15/e35/27576606_1655208501231497_8043494686138040320_n.jp g

[mbp]

I received a Jinhao as a bonus item for something I ordered the other day. Blown away by how smooth it is.

[matteob]

I don't know about know conversation. Was talking about BBS and Hero here the other week. They are interesting for what they are but don't expect Japanese or German quality. I'm quite taken with my little Hero pen. It writes really nicely.

[countrydirt]

I just received a Jinhao X750 and am suitably impressed with it. Smooth writer, plenty of heft to the brass and lacquered body, larger converter. And all for about $4. The more I am around these inexpensive Chinese pens, the more I like them.

[azkid]

Good to hear all this; I have a Jinhao on the way. I'm curious to see how it compares (in my very limited experience) to my Metro.

[old4570]

Wing Sung - Hero - Baor - Luo Shi - Linbitou - PenBBS - To name a few ...
Dollar is Indian , then there are Pakistan Pens .

https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23837-(-NIB-Slips-)-Pilot-V-Pierre-Cardin-Wing-Sung

I am starting : With NIB Slips , practice my photography .. So far free hand - will have to go tripod ..
But I will be talking about budget pens ..

https://s9.postimg.org/kce8l7vrz/Fountain_pens.jpg

What has arrived so far ..

Going macro on the NIB is an eye opener for sure ..
If your after a Wing 3008 ? Get the older one ...
Weight and weight distribution - Hmmm , most pens are fine as long as you leave the cap off , but pop that cap on and a lot of them become tail heavy , others seem to balance well .
Don't think this is something unique to Chinese pens ..

Seriously , some of these pens start @ 0.77 cents USD and as mentioned - How the hell do they do it ? ( $0.77 to your door )
But I have made it my mission to collect all the $ one dollar pens .. ( And then some )
It's terribly interesting I have to tell you ... Love it or hate it ! These cheap pens are at the very least - interesting !
And a fantastic way to actually put together a collection without going bankrupt ...
Lets not forget , not everyone is on a 100K income , or a 50K income , or a 25K income .. So these pens actually perform a function ( social ) .
Not everyone has Bugatti money , or even BMW money , or KIA money ..
There is always an element of elitism , in every interest I have ever been involved in ... I guess fountain pens are no different ..
So if you don't collect Ten Thousand Dollar fountain pens ?

So what is this other forum that's hot for Chinese ??????

[Sailor Kenshin]

What are the little blue and white pens on card, lower left?

[azkid]

The aforementioned Jinhao has arrived. I posted to share, doing my part to add more talk of Chinese pens to the neighborhood.

[suzy01]

I was looking for a Moonman M1 but found this instead. A real wood barrel and brass section/cap.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/c082452f3b7bcd73113dd7e846f1714b/5B1215BD/t51.2885-15/e35/27879733_1672753739484210_7035697089921155072_n.jp gWhat is that one?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[old4570]

What are the little blue and white pens on card, lower left?

There are several Pens in Packs on ebay , some have Jinhao , others like these ?
Just punch in Fountain pen on the Ebay search bar , and then chose lowest price + shipping first , and these show up around the dollar mark ..
I think one was right @ one dollar and the other around 1.50 or 1.80 ....

[KrazyIvan]

I was looking for a Moonman M1 but found this instead. A real wood barrel and brass section/cap.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/c082452f3b7bcd73113dd7e846f1714b/5B1215BD/t51.2885-15/e35/27879733_1672753739484210_7035697089921155072_n.jp gWhat is that one?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I am not exactly sure but it is very similar to a pen called the Moonman M1.

[Sailor Kenshin]

What are the little blue and white pens on card, lower left?

There are several Pens in Packs on ebay , some have Jinhao , others like these ?
Just punch in Fountain pen on the Ebay search bar , and then chose lowest price + shipping first , and these show up around the dollar mark ..
I think one was right @ one dollar and the other around 1.50 or 1.80 ....

Found, ordered...thanks!

[Wuddus]

Without cheap Chinese fountain pens, I wouldn't have joined this forum. I would probably still be using disposable ballpoints. They opened up the idea and opportunity for me to explore different types of pen and find my preferences at minimal outlay. If I had to do this at £20 a time, I probably wouldn't have bothered buying any fountain pens at all.

I have a couple of clear piston fillers, which are obviously a kind of TWSBI "homage", the Wing Sung 6359 Safari clone, a Jinhao x450, and a Parker Vector. The telling part here is that the Parker is my least favourite, partially because it runs dry occasionally, and partially the sharp transition between section and barrel. The cheap Chinese offerings are more comfortable to use, write better, and I will be less upset if I happen to break or lose one. Maybe eventually, after a few successes and failures, I might commit to something a little more expensive. That said, I don't think I will ever got north of £30 for a pen. Ever. All I want from a pen is comfort and reliability, and if I can get pens for <£5 that deliver those better than a Parker Vector, then that is what I will buy. Maybe these cheap pens will be a gateway to other pens, or maybe I'll just stick with the cheap stuff. Who knows? I've been asking questions about hooded nibs in another thread, and if I decide to try one, it will be a cheap Hero 616 or whatever the Parker 51 clone is. I am also eyeing up the Pilot Petit too. I'll probably then pass on my surplus lesser used pens and inks to someone else who I think get use and fun out of them. Maybe one of them will go on to get a Lamy or Visconti or Kwaeco or Parker.

One thing is for certain, which is that nobody is losing money or business from me buying those pens. I would not have paid £18 for a Lamy Safari, even if there wasn't clones available for £1. I would not have paid £20+ for a TWSBI either. However, me buying those cheaper pens, has got me buying inks that I wouldn't have otherwise owned. Diamine and Cult Pens have both benefited from me buying cheapo clones on ebay, and the pen manufacturers who had their designs cloned are no worse off. Maybe I'll start buying nicer paper to write on at some point too. If those cheapo pens bring more people into the fountain pen world that wouldn't have otherwise taken the leap, then surely that is a good thing for the industry. If only one in ten get hooked and go on to buy a more expensive pen that they wouldn't have otherwise considered, then the brand name pen manufacturers have still had more sales because of the lower market spectrum. In my mind they are an important part of the market, and I personally am thankful for their existence.

[gbryal]

That said, I don't think I will ever got north of £30 for a pen. Ever.

I think I said that right before I bought an Edison.

Not to discount your statement. You can get a great writer for £30. The trick is to get it on the first try. Not that expensive pens aren't a gamble too but usually you have more recourse if you got a dud.

Also, once you have 10 £30 pens, you might wish you had bought 3 £90 pens; after all, you probably only need 1 and 2 are nice to have, and they have a warranty and keep delivering the reliable experience you want. But 10 i-guess-they-are-ok pens can kind of drag on your psyche.

Of course, this might just be particular to me: I have probably 10 pens I like to use a lot, and 80 that I pass over on my way to grab them, all of which mostly write OK.

[Wuddus]

That said, I don't think I will ever got north of £30 for a pen. Ever.

I think I said that right before I bought an Edison.

Not to discount your statement. You can get a great writer for £30. The trick is to get it on the first try. Not that expensive pens aren't a gamble too but usually you have more recourse if you got a dud.

Also, once you have 10 £30 pens, you might wish you had bought 3 £90 pens; after all, you probably only need 1 and 2 are nice to have, and they have a warranty and keep delivering the reliable experience you want. But 10 i-guess-they-are-ok pens can kind of drag on your psyche.

Of course, this might just be particular to me: I have probably 10 pens I like to use a lot, and 80 that I pass over on my way to grab them, all of which mostly write OK.

:D

I am currently at 5 relatively cheap pens, and consider that too many. One fine, one medium, and one italic, along with a goodly assortment of inks, would do me just fine ... but I don't know what I like in a fountain pen yet. These cheapos are letting me explore that without making expensive errors.

[gbryal]

[
:D

I am currently at 5 relatively cheap pens, and consider that too many. One fine, one medium, and one italic, along with a goodly assortment of inks, would do me just fine ... but I don't know what I like in a fountain pen yet. These cheapos are letting me explore that without making expensive errors.

I get that, I did the same thing. I wish I could make the errors for you. Sometimes the errors ARE the cheapos, as the quest can leave quite a body count.
One thing that works for me is to get anything that can hold a JoWo #6 nib unit. Edisons are one way, but you could get a Ranga more cheaply. As long as the converter lines up in the section, you are in business. Then you can accumulate steel and gold JoWos to your heart's content in all sizes and send a few off for custom grinds.

But I'm off topic for inexpensive Chinese pens now. I have a bunch of them, I like some of them, I don't totally regret buying them but they mostly take up space now.

[Wuddus]

[
:D

I am currently at 5 relatively cheap pens, and consider that too many. One fine, one medium, and one italic, along with a goodly assortment of inks, would do me just fine ... but I don't know what I like in a fountain pen yet. These cheapos are letting me explore that without making expensive errors.

I get that, I did the same thing. I wish I could make the errors for you. Sometimes the errors ARE the cheapos, as the quest can leave quite a body count.
One thing that works for me is to get anything that can hold a JoWo #6 nib unit. Edisons are one way, but you could get a Ranga more cheaply. As long as the converter lines up in the section, you are in business. Then you can accumulate steel and gold JoWos to your heart's content in all sizes and send a few off for custom grinds.

But I'm off topic for inexpensive Chinese pens now. I have a bunch of them, I like some of them, I don't totally regret buying them but they mostly take up space now.

I understand.

I'm not using the cheapos to judge what they are cloned on. I'm not that naive. It's even more simplistic than that right now. I'm looking to find out if I like light or heavy, chunky or slim, long or short, wetter or drier. Do I prefer a round section or a faceted one. What things don't I like that I haven't even considered yet? It may be whether a clip is needed or not, and what style clips I prefer, which method of filling, or how much it holds. These things can only be answered by experiencing different pens, and I simply do not have the funds or the desire to answer these questions at £20 a time. For example, my most expensive pen is a Parker Vector three nib set. It's still a cheap pen, but it taught me to look for a smoother transition between section and barrel. The Safari clone taught me that some pens can be annoying when the cap is posted, because it falls at the wrong height and rubs at the side of my index finger. The TWSBI clone taught me that some pens can't be refilled with a syringe, are awkward to refill when a bottle gets low, and that some won't even fit down the neck of some bottles. The Jinhao 450 is a fatter and heavier pen. Time will tell me if this is good or bad for me.

I don't need expensive pens to learn these lessons, in fact I would rather those lessons only cost me £1 a time. When I start to understand what does and does not work for me, I can look at the £15 to £20 with at least a modicum of understanding of what I might or might not like about it. Some may say that the nib is everything, but right now all that matters is that it draws a line. The right nib is just the cherry on the top. I'm more concerned with what makes my hand fatigue, or chafes, or chews up my pocket, or is a swine to fill. The bottom line is that until you have spent a good few hours using different pens, the only things that you see when you look at a pen is how much it costs, and whether it's ugly or pretty (which is subjective anyway). If a new manufacturer released a new range of pens tomorrow, you could look at them all and know which you'd like and which you wouldn't. I can't. More importantly, I'm very limited on how much I'm prepared to spend finding out. My pens probably all set me back about £15 total. By the time that reaches £50 total, I want to have already found and bought at least one of my ideal pens. If I haven't, I'll have probably already started to lose interest.

[azkid]

Are there dry writing, yet reliable, Chinese pens?

The jinhao 599 (F #5 nib) I got wrote dry, but with skips and hard starts, even after ultrasonic cleaning, flushing and tweaking. Not worth it compared to my very reliable $30 Parker 45.

Generally I think I am done with Chinese pens for awhile and will move on to higher quality brands. I have some basic ideas of what I prefer, and the Chinese pens didn't help much with that, frankly.

[Wuddus]

Mine only tend to skip when I reach a point where I had been holding the page still and there's potentially grease off my fingers, or if I've got the pen held slightly wrong. I did notice that one of mine has a slight "baby's bottom" thing at the underside of the nib, but I'll just take a stone to it if it gets annoying. I don't mind too much if a cheap nib isn't perfect, any more than if a new pocket knife isn't sharp. I think that basic maintenance is a skill I should have if I'm going to buy and use this stuff. I already tend to resharpen pocket knives anyway, unless they're Victorinox, as they tend not to have the grind I want on them when I get them, and I'm starting to feel the same with nibs - get a cheap one, and refine it myself.

[Morgaine]

Without buying Chinese fountain pens, I would not have had a good giggle or three over the customs declaration form. I've apparently received "household lamps" and "pc rear mirror" whatever the latter is, I don't know. However, I do like the idea of buying bulbs!!

[aaronp]

Although I am new to fountain pen as a whole, I don't think cheap Chinese pens are that interesting. For example, if you are living in America or Europe you got plenty of choices for cheap pen. If you live somewhere near Japan, it is even easier to get a cheaper pen from Japanese manufacturers like Pilot or Platinum. I have been using the Pilot Metropolitan/Kakuno and a Lami Safari for a while and find no reason to buy cheap Chinese pens.

[k3eax]

Although I am new to fountain pen as a whole, I don't think cheap Chinese pens are that interesting. For example, if you are living in America or Europe you got plenty of choices for cheap pen. If you live somewhere near Japan, it is even easier to get a cheaper pen from Japanese manufacturers like Pilot or Platinum. I have been using the Pilot Metropolitan/Kakuno and a Lami Safari for a while and find no reason to buy cheap Chinese pens.


Really now, how many inexpensicve Chinese pens have you tried? I dare say, none.

[Medieval]

I've always found the Chinese pens to write really well and be reliable. I find them of better quality than cheap Parkers and Lamys.

[Wuddus]

I've always found the Chinese pens to write really well and be reliable. I find them of better quality than cheap Parkers and Lamys.

Agreed! I have one cheap Parker, and all my cheap Chinese pens are better.

[azkid]

That's good to know.

I will likely revisit sone other models and brands after fulfilling a few other quests.

To be fair my brand new Safari was having flow problems today. So I guess I can't judge the 599 too harshly.

[Sailor Kenshin]

There's a Prera-inspired WS out there. Once I tried the first one, I bought nearly all the colors. I don't know how well they'll hold up, but for two bucks, they write a nice fine line, and the clear feed is a bonus for me.

[VertOlive]

All in the Spirit of Exploration, I'm trying a new Chinese maker: bought a Pen BBS 267 coming in on the slow boat. It's desk pen size, about 185mm long in a "white cedar" acrylic.

$11.99 on Etsy

[Wuddus]

All in the Spirit of Exploration, I'm trying a new Chinese maker: bought a Pen BBS 267 coming in on the slow boat. It's desk pen size, about 60mm long in a "white cedar" acrylic.

$11.99 on Etsy

Are you sure about that length? 60mm is less than 2.1/2" long...

[VertOlive]

"Kindle Typo"! Fixed above.

[Wuddus]

:thumb:

[Somanypens]

As in so many other forums, people think differently about fountain pens. Many of you foo-foo Chinese fountain pens, yet, you will buy goods from the stores, (and unless you look around for strictly American made products, and kudos to you if you do), nearly 99% products which are imported from China. True that we have such wonderful pens: our Schaeffer's our Parkers, (once, although I don't think anymore) our Noodlers, and so on. I know the list is long, and I admit I'm a lazy shopper. I also live on a fixed, retired income, and if I didn't have to worry about bills for one month, I could afford a Montblanc. To be honest, I have no one to impress except myself. I do enjoy learning about other pens, and the small collection I have consists of one Parker, two Sheaffers, and the remainder are Baoers and Jinhaos. This shouldn't shock you, nor should you recoil in horror. Just be thankful, as I am, that there is a whole world of fountain pens waiting to be enjoyed. Even the cheap Chinese ones. My favorite pen? It's the Italian beauty I don't have. Maybe in another life. Have fun. Be kind.:thank_you2:

[KrazyIvan]

Not in the cheap category but it looks really cool, The Genesis Pen is an eyedropper pen with an ink chamber that is supposed to resemble DNA. Take a look at the Instagram account, there are some videos showing the ink sloshing around. It is mesmerizing to look at.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnUJL7clV8i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://scontent-dfw5-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/38a8ef8d31855e96c7e8992cd447a9bf/5C192537/t51.2885-15/e35/39509268_329589234443834_229149235524665344_n.jpg

[suzy01]

Not in the cheap category but it looks really cool, The Genesis Pen is an eyedropper pen with an ink chamber that is supposed to resemble DNA. Take a look at the Instagram account, there are some videos showing the ink sloshing around. It is mesmerizing to look at.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnUJL7clV8i/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://scontent-dfw5-2.cdninstagram.com/vp/38a8ef8d31855e96c7e8992cd447a9bf/5C192537/t51.2885-15/e35/39509268_329589234443834_229149235524665344_n.jpgT hey look crazy fun :)

I've discovered that I love cheapo Chinese pens! I ordered a JinHao 750 for about £2.50 on amazon in March and only just got around to trying it recently. It's so good I ordered another two so I can carry multiple coloured inks without worrying about dying my twsbi funny colours. I'm all ready for inktober now they've arrived :)

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[titrisol]

I bought a couple of JinHaos, some were lamy safari clones that broke within 2 weeks and the others were just so-so
I guess you get what you pay for

[Rapidray]

I bought a couple of JinHaos, some were lamy safari clones that broke within 2 weeks and the others were just so-so
I guess you get what you pay for
You always get what you pay for. Buy once or buy numerous times, you know what you can spend. Every once in a while you do get a golden item. :)

[KrazyIvan]

I have one of those Jinhao-Lamy look-alike pens. It has worked fine for me. One that surprised me is a Jinhao I gave my daughter last year. The one that looks like a Sailor pen. She uses it daily at school and she has dropped it a few times. Those are infamous for cracking and hers has not even flinched. Luck of the draw I guess.

[Medieval]

I bought a couple of JinHaos, some were lamy safari clones that broke within 2 weeks and the others were just so-so
I guess you get what you pay for
Pens bought in those multi-packs are well known to be fakes so they were probably not Jinhaos.


I always found Chinese pens to be great little writers.

[azkid]

My Jinhaos are pretty decent.

I wished expensive always meant quality but too many times I have been disappointed.

I find that, with a little diligence, one can find great values (pens, watches, audio gear, anything, really).

I find it is helpful to know what good value looks like versus relying on cost as an indicator.

[calamus]

Most of the world's consumer goods are manufactured in China, and in general their overall quality and longevity have gone down since that became true. Of course, they've been on a downward trajectory for much longer than that, due to corporations trying to increase their profits by cutting corners to cut costs. Same reason that so much manufacturing and so many jobs got exported to China and elsewhere in the first place. To be able to find ANYTHING made somewhere other than China is not easy, yet there are fountain pens — and excellent ones — made in many countries other than China, including Japan, Germany, Italy, France, the UK and the US, among others. Chinese pens are much cheaper in general, but they're more cheaply made, they are subsidized by a tyrannical government that imprisons people for repeating the "urban legend" of the Tiananmen Square massacre, and which permits what is essentially slave labor in its factories, and their quality control is notoriously bad. So for example, the Baoer 388, a Chinese Parker knockoff that sells for dirt cheap, is a pen which is frequently a decent performer, but if you look at the online reviews, you'll find that a lot of people who've bought them report having problems with the nibs, feed, plating, and/or a cap that can be very difficult to remove. This is typical for Chinese pens; they tend to be very hit or miss. Buying one is always a crap shoot.

[Medieval]

The main reason why some people look down their noses at pens and other items made in China is snob value. Many of the cheap Chinese pens manufactured today are far better writers than those made by the traditional fountain pen makers in the West who who are run by companies who could care less about fountain pens. I'm looking at you Parker, Sheaffer, Pelikan, Waterman....


In truth, there is nothing left of what the above brands once were except their name. There is no expertise or fountain pen culture or innovation within the companies that own the above brands.

There are good reasons why most things are made in China and it's got nothing to do with cheap labour. Companies could outsource everything to Congo or somewhere if labour costs were the main factor because there are many countries that have cheaper labour than China. In modern times, it's much more about China having the best technology and the most skilled workforce.

There are many views about China that are too stereotypical. And slave labour is rampant in the West too. People complain about the notorious warehouses at Apple or Amazon or many call centres, but they're luxurious compared to many places. China doesn't have the monopoly.

[calamus]

Apple products are made in China — under appalling working conditions, apparently. Their quality is good, though. Not everything manufactured in China is cheaply made, and as you've pointed out, China doesn't have a monopoly on making junk. On the other hand, the last time I was in Staples there were fountain pens in there from Sheaffer and from Cross, both were junk (I'd bought one of the Crosses and returned it the next day), and both had been made in China.

I've found that the best modern pens I own were all made in Japan.

[Medieval]

Apple products are made in China — under appalling working conditions, apparently. Their quality is good, though. Not everything manufactured in China is cheaply made, and as you've pointed out, China doesn't have a monopoly on making junk. On the other hand, the last time I was in Staples there were fountain pens in there from Sheaffer and from Cross, both were junk (I'd bought one of the Crosses and returned it the next day), and both had been made in China.

I've found that the best modern pens I own were all made in Japan.
Sorry if I was unclear, but I meant China doesn't have the monopoly on slave labour as there is more than enough in the West.

If the pens were cheaply made that you bought, I would blame Sheaffer and Cross, not Chinese manufacturing. It's Cross's and Sheaffer's decision to make junk.

I would also agree that the best modern pens are made in Japan.

[calamus]

In the US, Canada, UK and EU, sweatshops do exist here and there, but they are illegal and do not function with the government's blessing. That's a significant difference.

And yes, I also blame Sheaffer and Cross for the poor quality of their low-end junk. China is perfectly capable of producing quality goods. But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.

Back in the heyday of fountain pens, competition was fierce, and anyone producing garbage wouldn't stay afloat very long. Market conditions are very different today. And Chinese companies making their own low-end fountain pens have to compete with the cheaply made competing pens produced by their own fellow countrymen. The made-in-China Sheaffer I saw in Staples was retailing for $5.99, and that wasn't a sale price, that was the regular price.

[Jon Szanto]

The entire concept of "made in China", just as the emergence of "Made In Japan" in the late 50s, is a complex one. It can't, and shouldn't be, boiled down to a few pat phrases. If I choose to avoid many of the Chinese made-and-marketed pens, it isn't because of a snobbish attitude, and there are so many aspects to the manufacturing process, including the human labor costs and procedures, that it begs a deeper and more reasoned examination.

There is plenty of chatter about Chinese pens. It is especially warranted now that some very fine pens are being produced. I would enjoy it even more if they could finally get over the constant aping and ripping off of other manufacturers designs. I see signs pointing to just that, which is good.

[Medieval]

In the US, Canada, UK and EU, sweatshops do exist here and there, but they are illegal and do not function with the government's blessing. That's a significant difference.

And yes, I also blame Sheaffer and Cross for the poor quality of their low-end junk. China is perfectly capable of producing quality goods. But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.

Back in the heyday of fountain pens, competition was fierce, and anyone producing garbage wouldn't stay afloat very long. Market conditions are very different today. And Chinese companies making their own low-end fountain pens have to compete with the cheaply made competing pens produced by their own fellow countrymen. The made-in-China Sheaffer I saw in Staples was retailing for $5.99, and that wasn't a sale price, that was the regular price.
As for "slave labour", I wouldn't say that the warehouses at Amazon (http://uk.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-share-their-horror-stories-2018-4) and Apple and many others in the West are operating illegally, or at least not yet anyway. They are pushing to get away with as much as they can without actually being illegal.



But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.
Done properly? What's that supposed to mean?
Obviously "done properly" means gold plating frequently falling off within months or pens frequently arriving with baby's bottom and misaligned tines. And paying a high price for it.

The argument for making it in China just for cheap costs is not true and, as I stated before, is a long worn out stereotype. I'll let Tim Cook, head of Apple, speak for me (https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html):

"There's a confusion about China. The popular conception is that companies come to China because of low labor cost. I'm not sure what part of China they go to but the truth is China stopped being the low labor cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location and the type of skill it is."


And China has an abundance of skilled labor unseen elsewhere, says Cook:

"The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields."

[SIR]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

[k3eax]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

Yes SIR I certainly agree with you. I was very dissatisfied with the color of a Jinhao 992 that I bought for $.99 postpaid. Now if I had only bought locally, even though the 992 would have been many times that price, I could have hopped in my car and traveled 15 miles to return the pen to the local shop. SIR, it certainly did hit the fan and I most assuredly lerned a lesson.

[SIR]

Buy local
if you can,
because you'll soon know why
when the shit hits the fan.

Yes SIR I certainly agree with you. I was very dissatisfied with the color of a Jinhao 992 that I bought for $.99 postpaid. Now if I had only bought locally, even though the 992 would have been many times that price, I could have hopped in my car and traveled 15 miles to return the pen to the local shop. SIR, it certainly did hit the fan and I most assuredly lerned a lesson.

...

[KBeezie]

I feel like there's only so many of the Chinese pens, and when you get down to the nitty gritty of it, most are copies of pre-existing chinese models with the same characteristic for the most part. And with it having been that saturated for quite a few years with so many people already having access to see them for themselves, there's only so much that could be said or shared before people have already seen it from 50 other reviewers in a year's time.

[aquafox]

IMHO unless we're talking about artisanal pens, everything is down to QC. I saw some documentaries on YouTube of Aurora, Lamy, Pelikan and they all have one thing in common: production lines, where everything is done by machines.

the difference during manufacture process is the nationality of the workers pushing buttons. Quality check is a whole different thing: some companies take the loss, having strict quality check tolerances, others are more lax, and then there's plants where they just don't care as long as it can deliver ink on the paper.

Now, if you're talking "I like to support [country]'s fountain pen production because of whatever reason" that is something you can't argue

[KBeezie]

IMHO unless we're talking about artisanal pens, everything is down to QC. I saw some documentaries on YouTube of Aurora, Lamy, Pelikan and they all have one thing in common: production lines, where everything is done by machines.

the difference during manufacture process is the nationality of the workers pushing buttons. Quality check is a whole different thing: some companies take the loss, having strict quality check tolerances, others are more lax, and then there's plants where they just don't care as long as it can deliver ink on the paper.

Now, if you're talking "I like to support [country]'s fountain pen production because of whatever reason" that is something you can't argue

Also in regards to those three names (at least I think it still applies to Lamy), the nibs are created in-house (for sure with Aurora), and with at least Aurora, the nibs are handmade.

[aquafox]

Pelikan are also made in house. From the fancy S nib down to the humble Pelikano... At least, according to who took the factory tour with the Make a Wish Nib

[KBeezie]

Pelikan are also made in house. From the fancy S nib down to the humble Pelikano... At least, according to who took the factory tour with the Make a Wish Nib

I included Pelikan in the "in-house" comment, but not the hand-made comment (maybe the Sovereign nibs)

[cizra]

43621

[ilikenails]

'Nuff said in the posting's heading?

*shrugs*.

I have a lot of them, and today's rotation includes two Hero 616s, a Jinhao x750 fude, and another fude (I'm ink-testing). There is almost always at least one inked 616.

For a while, especially during the heyday of isellpens, I specialized in cheap Chinese pens, but branched out into Sailors, MBs and both Pilot and Platinum's lower-end offerings, when I came to realize big, heavy, metal-bodied pens were not for me.

It sounds like you possibly haven't looked at Chinese pens for quite a time. The models people are interested in these days are much more like the Japanese brands and they're typically plastic bodied demos. The 3003 for example is like a full size version of the Prera.

[ilikenails]

I'll let [URL="https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html"]Tim Cook, head of Apple, speak for me

..And I have a bridge for sale. It's made of solid gold! (Off the top of my head I can't think of a company that lies more than Apple - I remember how they hyped their stock price by claiming they were using their own design of CPU for iPads when actually it was an ARM with standard end-users customisation..)

[KrazyIvan]

I've had a Wing Sung 698 inked since December 2017 and I have had zero issues. I gave one away and the person has had zero issues. Yes, that is only two pens but I am happy.

[calamus]

But the main reason Western companies have their stuff made in China is to have it done as cheaply as possible, and they won't pay to have the job done properly.
Done properly? What's that supposed to mean?
Obviously "done properly" means gold plating frequently falling off within months or pens frequently arriving with baby's bottom and misaligned tines. And paying a high price for it.

The argument for making it in China just for cheap costs is not true and, as I stated before, is a long worn out stereotype. I'll let Tim Cook, head of Apple, speak for me (https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html):

"There's a confusion about China. The popular conception is that companies come to China because of low labor cost. I'm not sure what part of China they go to but the truth is China stopped being the low labor cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location and the type of skill it is."


And China has an abundance of skilled labor unseen elsewhere, says Cook:

"The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields."


Well, you've got me there. If the head of a huge corporation tells us that they're having their goods made in China because of the higher quality of the work and that it's simply not true that the slave labor, I mean labor, is cheaper, well there you go! Obviously he wouldn't dream of making a self-serving statement, or handing consumers a snow job.

[ilikenails]

Well, you've got me there. If the head of a huge corporation tells us that they're having their goods made in China because of the higher quality of the work and that it's simply not true that the slave labor, I mean labor, is cheaper, well there you go! Obviously he wouldn't dream of making a self-serving statement, or handing consumers a snow job.

There's also another factor: China is very aggressive about routing it's production of rare earths to favour manufacturing inside China. This is a huge incentive to manufacture electronics there, but it's a major political issue and you'd be crazy to expect any CEO doing this to discuss it.

But as a general rule, you're right of course - and that factor applies too.

As for China not being a low labour cost country, it depends on what the labor is doing and what statistics you believe -

https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/is-chinas-era-of-cheap-labor-really-over/

...You can still get unskilled labour in China for $100 a month. And assembling fountain pens - and plonking components into circuit boards for Apple - are unskilled jobs.

[Cyril]

China produces mostly everything, Lot of chemist to a grain of salt. Over here lot of mass-produced stuffs.
perhaps if you try to get something good you have to do good research and you have 90% chance to get it for a reasonable price. Recenlty I found some chemistry stuff that is not available in uk.
I bought some pens from China and they are great writers.
Quality you expect from a comparison of hi-end brands of writing instruments, if it the ergonomy and the writing quality, they are not bad.They are moderate and good writers. Most of the pens I tried are very good and I had the opprtunity to swap their nib with a German Steel nib to give more better and I never underrate some Chinese pens.

[Ugly Old Guy]

I just bought a set of four Jinhao X450's off Amazon for $19.95 plus tax and shipping. I wanted something classic/traditional, not gawdy, that wouldn't look out of place being carried and used by an old thing like Mr, or be out of place in a business setting or at church.
When they arrived in today's mail call, I inked them up with Jinhao black, blue, purple, and green ink cartridges.
Like the fountain pens I had back in the dark pre-Internet days of the 1970's and 1980's, I didn't clean the nibs/feeds before inking. All four write great. I have zero complaints.
I'm retired, on a low monthly fixed income. I can afford the Jinhao pens. I am thinking of getting some more, in fact.
I ordered one of their Ebony wood 51A's today, and may order a 51 with Rosewood and Mahogany sometime this year, and maybe three or four of the ceramic pens; The Ship and the Dragon pens, and possibly the Bamboo and Lotus set. I also plan on getting some of the Fine and FUDE nibs.

I'd love to be able to get a lever fill Pelikian (spelling?) and some Schafer No Nonsense Calligraphy pens like I had back then, but a new lever fill from a "good" European or Japanese company costs more than I have after paying rent. The Pelikian I had back then cost under $20. I don't remember what model it was. I remember it had a brown plastic body and cap. The only place I see the No Nonsense is on eBay. I don't do eBay or PayPal -- period.

From what I read in this thread, I guess I should keep quiet when I get a new pen, since I can't afford "better" or vintage pens. Posting an inexpensive Chinese manufactured pen insults and offends too many people.

[adhoc]

But that's just the thing - you just ordered a bunch of Jinhaos, which won't last very long, from my experience. These are not durable pens. You are already thinking of ordering more. For this price, you could get a European or Japanese made pen that will last you and your kids lifetime. Lamy Safari and Pilot Metropolitan comes to mind.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited for cheap, poorly made pens when perfectly fine pens exist within the same budget. For the 12 pens you have and have ordered, you could get a second hand Lamy 2000, which go for <$100 in the second hand market, and that's a great pen, not just "perfectly fine". For this money you could get a Pelikan M200, brand new.

You have spent more on cheap pens that will fall apart in months - and they will, because I had a bunch and they're all in the trash a long time ago - than you would have on an amazing pen already. And you keep ordering more.

In my country we have a saying: you're never rich enough to be able to buy cheap. Food for thought.

[Detman101]

The main reason why some people look down their noses at pens and other items made in China is snob value. Many of the cheap Chinese pens manufactured today are far better writers than those made by the traditional fountain pen makers in the West who who are run by companies who could care less about fountain pens. I'm looking at you Parker, Sheaffer, Pelikan, Waterman....


In truth, there is nothing left of what the above brands once were except their name. There is no expertise or fountain pen culture or innovation within the companies that own the above brands.

There are good reasons why most things are made in China and it's got nothing to do with cheap labour. Companies could outsource everything to Congo or somewhere if labour costs were the main factor because there are many countries that have cheaper labour than China. In modern times, it's much more about China having the best technology and the most skilled workforce.

There are many views about China that are too stereotypical. And slave labour is rampant in the West too. People complain about the notorious warehouses at Apple or Amazon or many call centres, but they're luxurious compared to many places. China doesn't have the monopoly.

Precisely. All of my chinese pens function far better than other pens I've bought.
(Looking squarely at you Monteverde, Montegrappa and Noodlers...you're all shite!)

[Ugly Old Guy]

@adhoc
I'm wanting to order a couple more because I like them. Also, they are different from what I have.
Did you notice I said I don't do eBay or PayPal?
Back in '06 when the Nintendo Wii came out and was pretty much impossible to find locally, I found two at a local big box store.

I bought both. Kept one , put the other up for auction on eBay. Unopened, complete as supplied by Nintendo.
The thief who won the auction was unhappy with it. I don't know why. Low graphics resolution, maybe? Anyway, "he" filed a false claim with eBay and PayPal, claiming it had been opened before he received it, things were missing, etc.

eBays "Buyers can do no wrong -- sellers can do no right" policy meant they ignored my photo and video evidence the Wii was unopened when I put it in the shipping box, and it was well packed with foam peanuts to avoid shipping damage.

eBay and their PayPal division/department took the winning bid amount plus shipping and buyer's PayPal fees, out of my bank account, issued a refund to the thief, AND TOLD THE S.O.B TO KEEP THE Wii!!! I was out the $395 I paid for the Wii, $50 FED-X shipping, the eBay selling fee, and the PayPal fee.

I've refused to use either since. Oh, eBay also closed my store (didn't refund the store fees) and my buyer's account.
Why the hell should I give either another chance to screw me?!?

[Robalone]

66564

I collect and am passionate about very old , pre war BCHR etc.
But I've played around with the Chinese/ Indian 'cheapies' and found then to be pretty darn good (for the most part ) Some of them have minor issues, but generally they are quite well built, and perform more than adequately, and they are much fun for experimentation/ modification.
I must say, I was biased against them initially, but have since reversed my opinion, and would recommend them as an introduction pen to someone tentatively starting out .

[adhoc]

@adhoc
I'm wanting to order a couple more because I like them. Also, they are different from what I have.
Did you notice I said I don't do eBay or PayPal?
Back in '06 when the Nintendo Wii came out and was pretty much impossible to find locally, I found two at a local big box store.

I bought both. Kept one , put the other up for auction on eBay. Unopened, complete as supplied by Nintendo.
The thief who won the auction was unhappy with it. I don't know why. Low graphics resolution, maybe? Anyway, "he" filed a false claim with eBay and PayPal, claiming it had been opened before he received it, things were missing, etc.

eBays "Buyers can do no wrong -- sellers can do no right" policy meant they ignored my photo and video evidence the Wii was unopened when I put it in the shipping box, and it was well packed with foam peanuts to avoid shipping damage.

eBay and their PayPal division/department took the winning bid amount plus shipping and buyer's PayPal fees, out of my bank account, issued a refund to the thief, AND TOLD THE S.O.B TO KEEP THE Wii!!! I was out the $395 I paid for the Wii, $50 FED-X shipping, the eBay selling fee, and the PayPal fee.

I've refused to use either since. Oh, eBay also closed my store (didn't refund the store fees) and my buyer's account.
Why the hell should I give either another chance to screw me?!?

Ebay is for buyers, not for sellers. In this way I completely agree with you - stay away from ebay like the plague, their fees are monstrous and they are out for seller's blood.

You have a used section here on FPGeeks, as well as over on reddit you have a subreddit called pen_swap. I have traded there many, many things and always everything was perfect. I would highly recommend it. The people are nice, the scammers are virtually non-existant because of the rules that are set in place - and both the seller and the buyer must follow them. If you're dealing with people that have more than 1 or have even several trades confirmed, which you can instantly check as it says how many confirmed trades they have right next to their name, there's basically no chance of getting scammed. Did I mention no fees? Yeah, no fees. But you do need Paypal, that is true. But from what I understand you have bad experience with ebay, not paypal anyway. Paypal is also quite greedy with fees, but at least they're normally OK to deal with.

I would encourage you to spend some time on this, it can really be beneficial, both as a seller and a buyer, you get to try things out you might not be able to otherwise due to budget constraints. Good luck!

[Scrawler]

Inexpensive Chinese pens exist so you can take something out of the house with you that will be no great loss if stolen, mislaid or damaged.

[Pendragon]

The main reason why some people look down their noses at pens and other items made in China is snob value.
That seems to be the case not only for pens, but for many other affordable items. Snobs seem to think that a stuck up attitude means they have good taste, refinement and sophistication. In reality, it just means that they have an attitude problem.


There are good reasons why most things are made in China and it's got nothing to do with cheap labour. Companies could outsource everything to Congo or somewhere if labour costs were the main factor because there are many countries that have cheaper labour than China. In modern times, it's much more about China having the best technology and the most skilled workforce.
No, it is about cheap labor. When labor costs in China increased, many overseas companies decamped and relocated to Vietnam.


Inexpensive Chinese pens exist so you can take something out of the house with you that will be no great loss if stolen, mislaid or damaged.
Or for those who want a perfectly good fountain pen for $20 or less. I have a Hero 100 and a Wing Sung 601A. Both are great writers, especially the Hero 100. They are cheap in price, but not cheap in quality.

[Chrissy]

Inexpensive Chinese pens exist so you can take something out of the house with you that will be no great loss if stolen, mislaid or damaged.
This. Or to slightly add to it, they are pens that you can take out of the house with you that you don't need to think about and you can stick in a bag or shirt pocket without fear.

[Robalone]

66667

[Chrissy]

That seems to be the common snag. They all seem unnecessarily heavy to me. On the other hand I don't really mind heavy pens.

[Scrawler]

That seems to be the common snag. They all seem unnecessarily heavy to me. On the other hand I don't really mind heavy pens.

The fact of weight has been an issue for me for a long time and more so now that I have limited hand function due to medical treatments. The brass body pens weighting more than 40g become tiresome very quickly and the reason I appreciate some of the more expensive European types is that the materials are much less weighty.

[TSherbs]

That seems to be the common snag. They all seem unnecessarily heavy to me. On the other hand I don't really mind heavy pens.

The fact of weight has been an issue for me for a long time and more so now that I have limited hand function due to medical treatments. The brass body pens weighting more than 40g become tiresome very quickly and the reason I appreciate some of the more expensive European types is that the materials are much less weighty.

Seems to me that you would like some of the beautiful inexpensive acrylic Chinese pens, too, then. I love them and own several, partly because they are light in weight.

[Scrawler]

That seems to be the common snag. They all seem unnecessarily heavy to me. On the other hand I don't really mind heavy pens.

The fact of weight has been an issue for me for a long time and more so now that I have limited hand function due to medical treatments. The brass body pens weighting more than 40g become tiresome very quickly and the reason I appreciate some of the more expensive European types is that the materials are much less weighty.

Seems to me that you would like some of the beautiful inexpensive acrylic Chinese pens, too, then. I love them and own several, partly because they are light in weight.

I would love some recommendations. I am looking for an absolute maximum of 20g.

[Robalone]

66678

[Ron Z]

You have spent more on cheap pens that will fall apart in months - and they will, because I had a bunch and they're all in the trash a long time ago - than you would have on an amazing pen already.

Well, no. Certainly not always, and frequently (and with some brands) usually, no.

I have some of the Wing Sung 3003 pens that look like a Pilot Prera loaded and handy to use for about 3 years now. They're solid pens, well made, and unlike the clear Prera I have, haven't cracked. the nibs are better from the get go than the Pilot nibs. The Wing Sung 699, which is like the Pilot 823 in appearance and function, and have had them loaded for over a year. They write well, and I haven't had any problems with them. The 823 pens seem to have a problem with cracking along the seam at one end or the other.

Jinhao pens don't seem to be of the same quality, and the celluloid Balance pen was a disaster. The plastic shrank and distorted after a few years. But that's no worse than I've seen with some Visconti and Omas pens that have come through for repair... at under $50 VS....

[TSherbs]

That seems to be the common snag. They all seem unnecessarily heavy to me. On the other hand I don't really mind heavy pens.

The fact of weight has been an issue for me for a long time and more so now that I have limited hand function due to medical treatments. The brass body pens weighting more than 40g become tiresome very quickly and the reason I appreciate some of the more expensive European types is that the materials are much less weighty.

Seems to me that you would like some of the beautiful inexpensive acrylic Chinese pens, too, then. I love them and own several, partly because they are light in weight.

I would love some recommendations. I am looking for an absolute maximum of 20g.

Wow, that is super-light. I would write Doug Rathburn and ask him. I wrote and asked him a generic Chinese pen question, and he was very helpful to me. Do you know his youtube channel, Inkquiring MInds?

My "light" beautiful pens are the Jinhao 100s and the Hongdian N1. But I am not sure of their actual weights. Pen BBS makes some all-acrylic beautiful pens that must also be quite light. I don't own any of those, but Doug Rathburn (or Inkquiring Minds) does, and so does Aaron of Aaron's Pen Videos. Both these guys are huge Penbbs fans and have posted many reviews of the models.

I am not sure if the 20g limit means that the pen cannot have any brass inside it. If brass is precluded, then you will have to look at all-plastic only. But I don't know.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I just bought a set of four Jinhao X450's off Amazon for $19.95 plus tax and shipping. I wanted something classic/traditional, not gawdy, that wouldn't look out of place being carried and used by an old thing like Mr, or be out of place in a business setting or at church.
When they arrived in today's mail call, I inked them up with Jinhao black, blue, purple, and green ink cartridges.
Like the fountain pens I had back in the dark pre-Internet days of the 1970's and 1980's, I didn't clean the nibs/feeds before inking. All four write great. I have zero complaints.
I'm retired, on a low monthly fixed income. I can afford the Jinhao pens. I am thinking of getting some more, in fact.
I ordered one of their Ebony wood 51A's today, and may order a 51 with Rosewood and Mahogany sometime this year, and maybe three or four of the ceramic pens; The Ship and the Dragon pens, and possibly the Bamboo and Lotus set. I also plan on getting some of the Fine and FUDE nibs.

I'd love to be able to get a lever fill Pelikian (spelling?) and some Schafer No Nonsense Calligraphy pens like I had back then, but a new lever fill from a "good" European or Japanese company costs more than I have after paying rent. The Pelikian I had back then cost under $20. I don't remember what model it was. I remember it had a brown plastic body and cap. The only place I see the No Nonsense is on eBay. I don't do eBay or PayPal -- period.

From what I read in this thread, I guess I should keep quiet when I get a new pen, since I can't afford "better" or vintage pens. Posting an inexpensive Chinese manufactured pen insults and offends too many people.

The 450s are pretty good writers. Not all Chinese pens fall apart, either. I still have some Hero 616s and others that are probably considered 'vintage.'

[Scrawler]

Do you know his youtube channel, Inkquiring MInds?

I am not sure if the 20g limit means that the pen cannot have any brass inside it. If brass is precluded, then you will have to look at all-plastic only. But I don't know.

I don't know it but will look.

This full size pen weighs 19g.

66679

[Scrawler]

I have watched a couple of Inkquiring MInds. I see that things have changed a little on the Chinese pen front since I last looked. Some of the new acrylics are very pretty. I have just ordered a Wing Sung which claims to weigh 21 grams. I will see how that works out.

[adhoc]

You have spent more on cheap pens that will fall apart in months - and they will, because I had a bunch and they're all in the trash a long time ago - than you would have on an amazing pen already.

Well, no. Certainly not always, and frequently (and with some brands) usually, no.

I have some of the Wing Sung 3003 pens that look like a Pilot Prera loaded and handy to use for about 3 years now. They're solid pens, well made, and unlike the clear Prera I have, haven't cracked. the nibs are better from the get go than the Pilot nibs. The Wing Sung 699, which is like the Pilot 823 in appearance and function, and have had them loaded for over a year. They write well, and I haven't had any problems with them. The 823 pens seem to have a problem with cracking along the seam at one end or the other.

Jinhao pens don't seem to be of the same quality, and the celluloid Balance pen was a disaster. The plastic shrank and distorted after a few years. But that's no worse than I've seen with some Visconti and Omas pens that have come through for repair... at under $50 VS....

I never tried Wing Sung, I only actually ever had Jinhaos of the Chinese cheapies. Probably 5-6 of them? They all fell apart on me within 6-12 months. The feed started falling out, clip fell off the cap, glue tore, etc...

[Ron Z]

I won't buy Jinhaos. I had one that was a copy of a Lamy Safari. I had to build up the section threads to keep it from shifting as I wrote with it.

[Robalone]

I won't buy Jinhaos. I had one that was a copy of a Lamy Safari. I had to build up the section threads to keep it from shifting as I wrote with it.

I've got a couple of Yiren pseudo safaris...and one had cracked barrel thread which had to be araldited ..but the others are still kicking on ..one wonders if they all come out of the same factory !

Jin hao seem to make some quite good models and some very cheesy and badly made stuff. My jinhao safari has a 1.1 Lamy italic/stub and honestly, I can't tell the difference between it and my real safaris.

However....'luck of the draw' doesn't seem much of a business model.

[adhoc]

I won't buy Jinhaos. I had one that was a copy of a Lamy Safari. I had to build up the section threads to keep it from shifting as I wrote with it.

Ah okay, then we're on the same page. I was really surprised at first. But I have to be honest I never ordered a Chinese pen after my experience with Jinhao again. Maybe I should, but from other brands. Then again, I have enough pens as it is already anyway...

[Sailor Kenshin]

I won't buy Jinhaos. I had one that was a copy of a Lamy Safari. I had to build up the section threads to keep it from shifting as I wrote with it.

I've got a couple of Yiren pseudo safaris...and one had cracked barrel thread which had to be araldited ..but the others are still kicking on ..one wonders if they all come out of the same factory !

Jin hao seem to make some quite good models and some very cheesy and badly made stuff. My jinhao safari has a 1.1 Lamy italic/stub and honestly, I can't tell the difference between it and my real safaris.

However....'luck of the draw' doesn't seem much of a business model.

With the nibs on my most current Safaris, that might be their business model now.

[LarryinIowa]

I'm rather new to the hobby. And I am fortunate to have a couple very nice pens. A Pelikan, a Sheaffer. And I bought a Platinum 3776 recently.

After reading generally positive comments about Jinhao pens, I purchased an X450 and and X750.

Pretty much a mistake. Though they write ok, they're both waaay too heavy and lacking in feel. That they're both medium nibs (not my favorite) doesn't endear me
The construction quality of my other pens really makes the Jinhaos feel "cheap." As they should. They are cheap pens.

I'll clean them this weekend and put they in the back of a drawer where they'll likely stay for quite some time

[Scrawler]

I have just started to look at what China is producing these days. They have really upped their industrial processes in the past few years and seem to be able to copy just about anything and make a reasonable writing instrument. It is a far cry from my first involvement with Chinese industry back in 1989. While visiting for business I picked up something they were proposing for international sale. It was the Jaguar pen. I can not politely express how execrable this item was.

66852

It is massively overweight and unbalanced, being made of a thin walled brass tube and huge brass plugs to screw the finial and section into. The gold wash wore off in days and the plugs became looser and looser with each fill. It was unusable in 3 months and has remained with me only as a souvenir of a very exciting and interesting time over there. I should toss it in the bin, it can never be made into a worthwhile tool. The strange thing is that at that time everyone used fountain pens. All our work was done with them Every student and bureaucrat had to be furnished with them. They had great domestic production of ordinary everyday type pens, but the stuff they were making for export had to be flashy and initially they did it wrong.

[Robalone]

I'm rather new to the hobby. And I am fortunate to have a couple very nice pens. A Pelikan, a Sheaffer. And I bought a Platinum 3776 recently.

After reading generally positive comments about Jinhao pens, I purchased an X450 and and X750.

Pretty much a mistake. Though they write ok, they're both waaay too heavy and lacking in feel. That they're both medium nibs (not my favorite) doesn't endear me
The construction quality of my other pens really makes the Jinhaos feel "cheap." As they should. They are cheap pens.

I'll clean them this weekend and put they in the back of a drawer where they'll likely stay for quite some time

Hey, at least you're only out the cost of breakfast ....it really is a bit of a 'lark' buying these pens..Personally, I modify and mess around with them, they take a Zebra dip nib and can turn out some impressive calligraphy.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I'm rather new to the hobby. And I am fortunate to have a couple very nice pens. A Pelikan, a Sheaffer. And I bought a Platinum 3776 recently.

After reading generally positive comments about Jinhao pens, I purchased an X450 and and X750.

Pretty much a mistake. Though they write ok, they're both waaay too heavy and lacking in feel. That they're both medium nibs (not my favorite) doesn't endear me
The construction quality of my other pens really makes the Jinhaos feel "cheap." As they should. They are cheap pens.

I'll clean them this weekend and put they in the back of a drawer where they'll likely stay for quite some time

Well, they ARE metal.

[Cyril]

Chinese pens are metal and they are not heavy for the budget but heavy in some hands.
But sometimes heavy pens gives some characters to some styles of writing.
Some plastic light pens drives differently on papers and they are different than of heavy pens writing. Posting or non posting habits will be the out comes of those light/ heavy pens.

Example, is Pilot Parallel pens. They are very light and can't post any of the series. Some people add a weight to the barrel or there are complete pen body for the Parallel Pens.