What are the benefits of being a member of PCA?

[penwash]

Seeing the PCA election thread, the question pops up in my mind.

What's the benefit of being a member of PCA?

I am not asking about the official statement which I can read from the website.

I want to hear from members who are willing to share their experiences.

[jar]

The biggest benefit is contributing to an organization that works to interest youngsters in fountain pens and a secondary and less important benefit is to also help support the archival of and making available to others historical documentation simply not available from any other source.

[penwash]

The biggest benefit is contributing to an organization that works to interest youngsters in fountain pens and a secondary ...

The largest pool of multi-national young people getting into fountain pen is on Reddit.com.
I bet they have no idea what PCA is and that its trying to reach them.

[jar]

The biggest benefit is contributing to an organization that works to interest youngsters in fountain pens and a secondary ...

The largest pool of multi-national young people getting into fountain pen is on Reddit.com.
I bet they have no idea what PCA is and that its trying to reach them.

Probably true yet certainly not a reason to not contribute to PCA. It might be a reason to get active in PCA and try to organize an outreach through reddit. Would you consider trying that?

[Jon Szanto]

If I may, there is also a subtle element to all this...

Yes, PCA does have, at it's core, an interest in the hobby and it's expansion. Also note that it is the Pen Collectors of America.

It seems to me that the fp world is currently in an interesting phase, where the mainstream use of pens had died off and most pens were of interest to collectors, but now there is a groundswell of interest. However, the vast majority of that interest is in new pens. Will, you certainly can attest to the fact that the reddit world is primarily about cheap, entry-level new pens. Having been a member of PCA for a few years and having gotten to know the culture, there certainly are different groups of people at work.

Time will tell if PCA will be interested or comfortable enough to spend time and money to further and foster the new body of users, being that their primary focus has been on the views to past fountain pen worlds. But for anyone interested in information about pens from the past, it is a great resource and knowledge base.

[penwash]

If I may, there is also a subtle element to all this...

Yes, PCA does have, at it's core, an interest in the hobby and it's expansion. Also note that it is the Pen Collectors of America.

It seems to me that the fp world is currently in an interesting phase, where the mainstream use of pens had died off and most pens were of interest to collectors, but now there is a groundswell of interest. However, the vast majority of that interest is in new pens. Will, you certainly can attest to the fact that the reddit world is primarily about cheap, entry-level new pens. Having been a member of PCA for a few years and having gotten to know the culture, there certainly are different groups of people at work.

Time will tell if PCA will be interested or comfortable enough to spend time and money to further and foster the new body of users, being that their primary focus has been on the views to past fountain pen worlds. But for anyone interested in information about pens from the past, it is a great resource and knowledge base.

Jon, you pinpoint exactly where the disconnect is.
I agree that reddit is populated by beginner users using beginner pens, but which other *crowd* of young generation is more likely to become pen collectors in the future? At least the ones in the reddit crowd are reachable. Does PCA want to reach them?

This should be a key platform for those who are being elected as the next PCA President. I think :)

[Jon Szanto]

Jon, you pinpoint exactly where the disconnect is. I agree that reddit is populated by beginner users using beginner pens, but which other *crowd* of young generation is more likely to become pen collectors in the future? At least the ones in the reddit crowd are reachable. Does PCA want to reach them?

This should be a key platform for those who are being elected as the next PCA President. I think :)

I'll be honest: that depends.

Look, I've hung out on reddit for almost two years now. I have some pretty strong opinions about how that all flows, and where I happen to think that audience is. But all that aside, there is one aspect to it that ties in: they pretty much have about jack interest in vintage, and at the moment what PCA has to offer won't be of interest. I'm not certain that needs to be corrected.

Why? Hey, no one reached out to me with some kind of hand-holding and comfy seat cushion. When I got interested in pens, I sought out the information, and I developed an interest in both new AND old pens, and I went looking for more resources. I realized PCA had something to offer me, and I went for it.

People who whine about paying more than a Jinhao price for a pen are not going to be easily persuaded to pay money to join and only get a thrice-yearly mag and access to some digital files. As far as outreach for anyone getting into fountain pens with what is newly manufactured, that stuff is covered by the blogs and the sellers like Goulet, Anderson, etc.

Don't get me wrong: I've been banging my head against the desk to figure out ways to make this all work, and I don't think all of the impetus needs to be coming from one side. I think it is a little incumbent on the newcomers themselves to try to understand a bit about what pen collecting is about, what it takes to gather vintage, etc. In a way, they need to reach out to the collectors just as the collectors need to reach out to the new users.

I'm open for suggestions, though I don't have any input save for friends. I've talked a bit at length with people like Brad Dowdy and Matt Armstrong about this, as well as a number of the people who put on pen shows. I think it is a movement and a topic worth discussing, having an open dialog, and making progress - if I didn't think so, I probably wouldn't hang in reddit. But it is going to take some care, because while the common denominator is the fountain pen, there are an awful lot of differences between the two audiences.

[Farmboy]

Seeing the PCA election thread, the question pops up in my mind.

What's the benefit of being a member of PCA?

I am not asking about the official statement which I can read from the website.

I want to hear from members who are willing to share their experiences.

Since this topic is of concern to me, I'd like to ask the question in a slightly different way.

What would you like to see as a benefit of being a member of the PCA?

Todd

[jar]

Seeing the PCA election thread, the question pops up in my mind.

What's the benefit of being a member of PCA?

I am not asking about the official statement which I can read from the website.

I want to hear from members who are willing to share their experiences.

Since this topic is of concern to me, I'd like to ask the question in a slightly different way.

What would you like to see as a benefit of being a member of the PCA?

Todd

One thing I have suggested is less emphasis on the magazine, do away with it entirely or preferably replace it with one online and open to members and non-members. I never bother to even open or look at them and year after year have suggested they set up a way to opt out of receiving the thing or instead donate them to schools or libraries.

I like the idea of outreach over continued inbreeding...let's explore things like reddit and other current forms of communication. Expand the library to include current catalogs and other material. Work with manufacturers to get them feeding new material to PCA and lets see if 20 years from now there will be a body of all today's data.

[FredRydr]

Without the lifeblood of money, no nonprofit can survive to perform its mission, no matter how noble we think it is. A nonprofit is destined to meet a bad end when it hemorrhages dues-paying members while making no serious plan to stem the loss, made worse by liquidating recent gifts endowed by kind donors to use proceeds to cover excessive costs of publishing a magazine with a very small and declining subscription. Strong leadership should've made finances and membership priority one, make directors responsible for their assigned duties, cut the dead wood and then use that sound foundation to pursue the mission. Frankly, as things stand, I don't see this happening. Loving pens is just not enough.

Fred

[penwash]

Jon, you pinpoint exactly where the disconnect is. I agree that reddit is populated by beginner users using beginner pens, but which other *crowd* of young generation is more likely to become pen collectors in the future? At least the ones in the reddit crowd are reachable. Does PCA want to reach them?

This should be a key platform for those who are being elected as the next PCA President. I think :)

I'll be honest: that depends.

Look, I've hung out on reddit for almost two years now. I have some pretty strong opinions about how that all flows, and where I happen to think that audience is. But all that aside, there is one aspect to it that ties in: they pretty much have about jack interest in vintage, and at the moment what PCA has to offer won't be of interest. I'm not certain that needs to be corrected.

Why? Hey, no one reached out to me with some kind of hand-holding and comfy seat cushion. When I got interested in pens, I sought out the information, and I developed an interest in both new AND old pens, and I went looking for more resources. I realized PCA had something to offer me, and I went for it.

People who whine about paying more than a Jinhao price for a pen are not going to be easily persuaded to pay money to join and only get a thrice-yearly mag and access to some digital files. As far as outreach for anyone getting into fountain pens with what is newly manufactured, that stuff is covered by the blogs and the sellers like Goulet, Anderson, etc.

Don't get me wrong: I've been banging my head against the desk to figure out ways to make this all work, and I don't think all of the impetus needs to be coming from one side. I think it is a little incumbent on the newcomers themselves to try to understand a bit about what pen collecting is about, what it takes to gather vintage, etc. In a way, they need to reach out to the collectors just as the collectors need to reach out to the new users.

I'm open for suggestions, though I don't have any input save for friends. I've talked a bit at length with people like Brad Dowdy and Matt Armstrong about this, as well as a number of the people who put on pen shows. I think it is a movement and a topic worth discussing, having an open dialog, and making progress - if I didn't think so, I probably wouldn't hang in reddit. But it is going to take some care, because while the common denominator is the fountain pen, there are an awful lot of differences between the two audiences.

I hear you Jon, but I wasn't suggesting a comfy cushion hand out. I mainly suggest reaching out *if* and *only if* PCA wants to.

For instance, I think it won't hurt if the PCA president were to pop in reddit once in a while and introduce the organization to the young people saying: "Hi fountain pen enthusiasts, we are PCA and we'd love to hear from you. This is why...."

You know as welll as I do that a lot of people (the majority of them are quiet lurkers) who listen to the stuff on reddit are interested in more information. Sure there are ones that will only ever pay for a JinHao but there are also a lot who could increase in their appreciation of pen collecting as a lifelong hobby. As long as there are people who is willing to give them the information.

At least that's how I see it. But I'm barely past one year in this hobby, given, I am blessed to be in contact with some amazingly generous super-collectors early on and got to appreciate just how deep the ocean is. That's why I am eager to pass along the incredible knowledge that I've found to whoever have the ear to listen.

I do realize it's like trying to bridge two worlds and sometimes it just feels stupid and futile.
But hey, it's not the first time I am compelled to tackle something big like this :)

[Jon Szanto]

I do realize it's like trying to bridge two worlds and sometimes it just feels stupid and futile.
But hey, it's not the first time I am compelled to tackle something big like this :)

Indeed. Please don't be put off by my tone, as I tend to sound cranky when I'm thinking out loud on hard issues.

But also bear in mind the wise words from Fred above: the PCA is not a full-time occupation kind of thing, and they may not, themselves, have the resources to get actively involved in other activities. In any event, this discussion may bring some ideas and issues to light.

[Rick Krantz]

I fear for the long term existence of the PCA. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the next set of directors can infuse new ideas into the PCA, and the board can come up with an action plan, and make choices that will ensure they can move in the right direction. I fear if they make one bad choice, the PCA will be too far gone to save it.

On a side note, if they ever get the GPS running, it certainly has the appeal to the reddit crowd and others that are not interested in archived catalogs and a print magazine.

[david i]

Without the lifeblood of money, no nonprofit can survive to perform its mission, no matter how noble we think it is. A nonprofit is destined to meet a bad end when it hemorrhages dues-paying members while making no serious plan to stem the loss, made worse by liquidating recent gifts endowed by kind donors to use proceeds to cover excessive costs of publishing a magazine with a very small and declining subscription. Strong leadership should've made finances and membership priority one, make directors responsible for their assigned duties, cut the dead wood and then use that sound foundation to pursue the mission. Frankly, as things stand, I don't see this happening. Loving pens is just not enough.

Fred

The PCA's DC Auction was an embarrassment. I never got around to my post about why the PCA should consider returning to the donor's heirs the collection left to it. Still months behind on "real life". One day soon, I hope.

-d

[david i]

I'd hoped to have the GPS in play by Ohio. Probably mid December. But, we can chat about it at the show. A bit of diffusion of responsibilities would be good. I have too much on my plate to run another project alone. Saving grace is by tooling the product for the modern age, it will require limited effort.

=d

[david i]

I'd hoped to have the GPS in play by Ohio. Probably mid December. But, we can chat about it at the show. A bit of diffusion of responsibilities would be good. I have too much on my plate to run another project alone. Saving grace is by tooling the product for the modern age, it will require limited effort.

Recognizing I could be wrong (go figure), I see the PCA as doomed unless it wholly reinvents itself. If we want just a mag, we have Paul's rather nice one. The PCA's behavior cost the PCA its exclusive literature archive. The PCA let a bunch of donated pens go for less than the wholesale price I offer non-collectors when buying their collections in bulk.

Laura will do great job as new editor for the PCA mag, but what's really left?

d

[david i]

Seeing the PCA election thread, the question pops up in my mind.

What's the benefit of being a member of PCA?

I am not asking about the official statement which I can read from the website.

I want to hear from members who are willing to share their experiences.


Acknowledging my own biases (I can provide links one day), I see the PCA as a dying phenomenon, really just a pen magazine (nothing wrong with that) with delusions of undue significance, an inbred perspective, and laurels on which there has been well too much resting. I remain with grave doubts about financial management there.

regards

d

[david i]

Rick and Fred had a measure of disagreement with me a couple years back about my perspective on the PCA. I give them credit for then putting their effort where their mouths were and signing up to work actively with the PCA. Rick even gave them a nice article for the PCA magazine. They can probably speak for what they experienced/discovered/learned while with the organization. I've spoken to Rick about it. I've not spoken to Fred on that topic, though Rick has offered his views of Fred's views.

regards

-d

[david i]

I really need to update my signature space. The FB group is pushing 7500 members now, with hefty daily chat.

[lsmith42]

Huh...

Some good suggestions...

However, some of the precise language choices ("inbreeding", "inbred"), as well as the assumptions of knowledge without knowledge (see below) are very telling...

This is a fascinating sociological test tube to watch being shaken.

The millennial influx into the hobby (and pick one: users, collectors? - lots of new and nouveau riche accumulators, few collectors) is a dynamic that's still being figured out.

Two things concern me (and I am the parent of TWO millennials):

1) people apparently having watched TRON one too many times believing that information should be free, and that information should require no work to acquire. That information ends up with no intrinsic value.

2) Information <> knowledge (a priori vs. a posteriori). The bridge mentioned so well above must be built between these, and the inhabitants of the mountains must all travel between them.

On the other hand, this energy-sucking shit sometimes makes me want to go smash every pen I own with a sledgehammer.

[Jon Szanto]

On the other hand, this energy-sucking shit sometimes makes me want to go smash every pen I own with a sledgehammer.

Give me 5 minutes in the room before you go to work on them. That's all I ask. ;)

Certainly is an interesting time in the pen world.

[penwash]

I'd hoped to have the GPS in play by Ohio. Probably mid December. But, we can chat about it at the show. A bit of diffusion of responsibilities would be good. I have too much on my plate to run another project alone. Saving grace is by tooling the product for the modern age, it will require limited effort.

=d

What is GPS and what do you need help with?
I am not volunteering (yet) since I'm not even a member (yet). But it's good to tell as much people as possible who may be able to help.

[david i]

The GPS, inception still pending, is the Global Pen Society, a low-barrier-to-entry agency that will not diss users, but which still will offer much to collectors.

The website is owned, but not really active yet.

regards

david

[lsmith42]

The way I see it, there are three ways to go here:
1) say something helpful
2) say nothing
3) say something not helpful

[david i]

Say something Martian.
Says something pensive.
Say something poetic.
Say what others should say.
Say super saiyins.

http://shirtoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Super-Saiyan-Man.jpg

Heh.

-d

[pajaro]

I am not sure how I would benefit by being a member of PCA. I never would have heard of PCA except for this discussion. I have collected pens since the 1970s, when I was in my twenties. Back then I was just an island of information seeking. I learned some things by collecting. When ebay came about I learned more. Finally I found FPN and the Geeks around 2009. At 68 I am closer to the end than the beginning, and I am more shedding pens than acquiring. It is nice to know about different pens without actually acquiring them, so PCA might offer info. Maybe.

As pens are becoming less needed in life than they were during most of my life, I can see where the dying off of collectors might render pen collecting a dying activity. Would there be any buyers of collector pens if the next generation only wants new cheap pens with no interest in vintage pens? Without activity the existence of sources of pens, parts and information are uncertain. I already find myself buying pens for parts to fix other pens. Also, with no need to write with a pen, I often wonder what I have the pens for. Well, I like to look at them and take them apart. A few never get back together.

[TheRealMikeDr]

As pens are becoming less needed in life than they were during most of my life, I can see where the dying off of collectors might render pen collecting a dying activity. Would there be any buyers of collector pens if the next generation only wants new cheap pens with no interest in vintage pens? Without activity the existence of sources of pens, parts and information are uncertain. I already find myself buying pens for parts to fix other pens. Also, with no need to write with a pen, I often wonder what I have the pens for. Well, I like to look at them and take them apart. A few never get back together.

A generation that starts with an interest in cheap modern pens may change and evolve over time as they grow older and the lure of nostalgia creeps in. I think as long as there is a (growing) interest in things like fountain pens there will always be a steady interest for things gone by.

[penwash]

As pens are becoming less needed in life than they were during most of my life, I can see where the dying off of collectors might render pen collecting a dying activity. Would there be any buyers of collector pens if the next generation only wants new cheap pens with no interest in vintage pens?

I would submit that there is a healthy interest among the next generation of fountain pen in vintage pens. People belonging to any and every generation are capable to appreciate beauty and elegance, and if such can be found in vintage pens, there will be those who will become a collector for life in any generation.

The danger here is the disconnect and the lack of "bridge" between those who just got started and those who are already in the "advanced collecting" -phase. I believe this is no one's fault in particular, it's just the nature of things.




A generation that starts with an interest in cheap modern pens may change and evolve over time as they grow older and the lure of nostalgia creeps in. I think as long as there is a (growing) interest in things like fountain pens there will always be a steady interest for things gone by.

Well said.

[pajaro]

I didn't write that there would be no interest in pens by the next generation, but I am uncertain.

The number of pen collectors today as part of the population is probably very small, so it will probably take only a small number to maintain the market.

[david i]

A mag published by one of the best writers in our hobby about many facets of pendom.

Articles about writing, collecting, ink, and collecting ethics.

You get key stuff by yours truly nearly every issue ;)

http://www.fountainpenjournal.com


Paul's Fountain Pen Journal

http://fountainpenjournal.com/images2/fountainpenjournal_issue2.2.jpg

[penwash]

I didn't write that there would be no interest in pens by the next generation, but I am uncertain.

The number of pen collectors today as part of the population is probably very small, so it will probably take only a small number to maintain the market.

Good news is, there are enough active pen collectors today to attend/support 14 Pen Shows annually in the US alone (not counting the ones in Europe and Asia). And judging by every "My first pen" post daily on reddit, we have enough new generation as potential collectors.