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Woody
November 26th, 2016, 01:02 PM
I originally had to rethink my post. With the increase of sales in that section should a member call out a seller in public, or send a private message to the seller. I prefer the latter.
I'm not in the business of pens. And many of us simply buy and sell to try different pens. That's the essence of our hobby.

gwgtaylor
November 26th, 2016, 01:35 PM
I'm totally ok with commenting on price. This is a forum after all and it should be fair game. If you're the seller and you believe the price is justified, say so. If you don't like comments then you should post somewhere where commenting on price is forbidden--say eBay for example. Also I'm commenting both as a buyer and seller. This is a community and we should protect each other from overpaying. I wouldn't want to rip anyone off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sloegin
November 26th, 2016, 02:47 PM
I would very much like to see sellers combine their listings.

FredRydr
November 26th, 2016, 03:12 PM
It is against accepted netiquette to denigrate price and other aspects of another's classified advertisement. If the price is unreasonably high, reasonable people won't buy it, but some people will cast reason to the wind and buy anyway. There is a vintage Waterman currently in the classified that would fit my collection, but the condition of the pen in no way warrants the posted price. But someone else may be willing to buy despite my opinion. Who am I to interfere in others' deal-making? It's the classic "none of my business."

If there is fraud involved, that's a different story. For example, if someone is selling a well-used 1990's black resin 149 for $1,000, just don't buy it and move on. But if the 149 is counterfeit without a doubt, a comment would be appropriate. Of course, a neophyte had better not jump in on such things, since he'll know too little with a risk of erroneously sullying a legitimate sale, even if the price is not what he'd pay.

Finally, if you just cannot keep an opinion to yourself about price or other aspect, then send to the seller a private message listing your concerns, but don't expect a seller to act just because you say so.

Fred

Jon Szanto
November 26th, 2016, 03:32 PM
My etiquette is completely classified, and therefore Mr. Trump is more than likely unaware of it's attributes.

As to the particular topic under discussion, I'm on the fence about the whole thing. Since no hard opinion, I tend to not comment.

Pterodactylus
November 26th, 2016, 04:07 PM
I also normally ignore the sales threads.
But In case I see one by accident and something really wrong hit my eyes, like statements which are obvious not true and somebody want to make the big buck based on these not true statements, then I will most likely comment it.
The "Non of my business" argument does not count for me in such cases as I consider us as a community and which good community would allow that another member would be ripped off.

But as said in general for sure the price is up to the seller (unless it is obviously not several times above the usual price).

As I said in another thread personally I would restrict the sells to active member with several months membership and a good amount of active posts. Additionally I would appreciate that selling posts would be monitored to prevent harm from our members in case of rip off, not respectable offers,....
Not all of our members are experts and if they make bad experiences with sells here the whole forum reputation will be damaged.
This is primarily not a selling platform, at least in my opinion.

RocketRyan
November 26th, 2016, 04:17 PM
I think if you advertise on a forum where you can comment, expect comments. Obviously you should be respectful.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

TSherbs
November 26th, 2016, 04:29 PM
It is against accepted netiquette to denigrate price and other aspects of another's classified advertisement. If the price is unreasonably high, reasonable people won't buy it, but some people will cast reason to the wind and buy anyway. There is a vintage Waterman currently in the classified that would fit my collection, but the condition of the pen in no way warrants the posted price. But someone else may be willing to buy despite my opinion. Who am I to interfere in others' deal-making? It's the classic "none of my business."

If there is fraud involved, that's a different story. For example, if someone is selling a well-used 1990's black resin 149 for $1,000, just don't buy it and move on. But if the 149 is counterfeit without a doubt, a comment would be appropriate. Of course, a neophyte had better not jump in on such things, since he'll know too little with a risk of erroneously sullying a legitimate sale, even if the price is not what he'd pay.

Finally, if you just cannot keep an opinion to yourself about price or other aspect, then send to the seller a private message listing your concerns, but don't expect a seller to act just because you say so.

Fred

I have politely told a few sellers, via PM, that their prices were easily beat (lower) elsewhere. In each case he/she appreciated the info and was not attempting to scam amyone, but I saw no reason to post my remarks in the more public thread. To me, doing so in public is like telling someone that their pants are down in a loud voice so that others can hear. This is not how I would wish to be treated.

jar
November 26th, 2016, 04:39 PM
If I am interested in a pen being offered but feel the price is unreasonable I would send a PM to the seller making what I consider a reasonable offer. It never hurts to handle things with class.

RocketRyan
November 26th, 2016, 04:43 PM
If I was selling something I would generally research it's value first.... But then I also would be OK with commenting on my sales thread.

Hawk
November 26th, 2016, 04:46 PM
It is against accepted netiquette to denigrate price and other aspects of another's classified advertisement. If the price is unreasonably high, reasonable people won't buy it, but some people will cast reason to the wind and buy anyway. There is a vintage Waterman currently in the classified that would fit my collection, but the condition of the pen in no way warrants the posted price. But someone else may be willing to buy despite my opinion. Who am I to interfere in others' deal-making? It's the classic "none of my business."

If there is fraud involved, that's a different story. For example, if someone is selling a well-used 1990's black resin 149 for $1,000, just don't buy it and move on. But if the 149 is counterfeit without a doubt, a comment would be appropriate. Of course, a neophyte had better not jump in on such things, since he'll know too little with a risk of erroneously sullying a legitimate sale, even if the price is not what he'd pay.

Finally, if you just cannot keep an opinion to yourself about price or other aspect, then send to the seller a private message listing your concerns, but don't expect a seller to act just because you say so.

Fred

There was an instance where a pen for sale was, in my opinion, counterfit. This was based on a similar pen in my possession with similar attributes. I chose to PM the seller instead of replying to their post. Needless to say, we didn't agree on the issue and I didn't follow up further.

FredRydr
November 26th, 2016, 05:10 PM
This is primarily not a selling platform, at least in my opinion.
I would prefer to agree, but the sheer number of posts in the classifieds compared to the other subforms pretty much says it all. Click on "New Posts" and you'll see. Since this is an unmoderated forum, it's up to us to respect netiquette. If we don't don't, we screw it up for everyone.

Fred

Jon Szanto
November 26th, 2016, 05:32 PM
This is primarily not a selling platform, at least in my opinion.

That used to be the case. I'm not so certain any more. Besides, I don't think our opinions matter a jot in the way FPG is run.

FredRydr
November 26th, 2016, 07:23 PM
...Personally I am more entertained by the 'tales' some of the sellers spin on their sales, but there's only so many "I'm culling the herd" variations I can read before I start losing the will the live. Actually, I'm not sure which is more amusing; the amateurish tales or that the sellers think anyone takes them seriously.
Pen collectors are always buying and selling, improving their collections, shifting their interests, and in the process usually losing money. "Culling the herd" is just a tongue-in-cheek phrase that fellow pen collectors recognize with a smile. That's all; nothing more is meant by it, and nothing more should be (cynically) attributed to it. From your post, I sense you are not enjoying pen collecting as a hobby. If you are envious that all the other collectors are profiting while you are not, you've got it very wrong.

Fred

RocketRyan
November 27th, 2016, 01:10 AM
I would certainly agree that prices are higher here.

Dr.Danger
November 27th, 2016, 01:24 AM
Certainly, in the case of fraud or profiteering, comments in a sales thread are appropriate. If you think that the price is too high, or that the pictures aren't clear, a pm is preferable. If asking for clarification about the pen, and the information would be useful to others, a comment is encouraged.

Just my $0.02.

RocketRyan
November 27th, 2016, 01:53 AM
We are all entitled to our $0.02 worth, it's what makes forums fun.

FredRydr
November 27th, 2016, 05:34 AM
Whatever. I will of course exercise my right to my own interpretation of what I see as disingenuous behaviour. I believe it is rife among the regular FPGeeks sellers.

Quite sad. I hope you find a pen that brings you some joy at a reasonable price.

Fred

RocketRyan
November 27th, 2016, 05:58 AM
I think the joy of the chase is half the fun, and who doesn't want to haggle and save a few quid.

Monkey
November 28th, 2016, 06:29 AM
Somewhat non sequitur in my opinion. Please explain the link in case I have missed it.

They've been trying to claim that since you have a negative view of that sort of statement that it means that you are "not enjoying pen collecting as a hobby" and "are envious that all the other collectors are profiting while you are not," which is pretty much 1 + 3 = 7 in my book. None of it follows.

Woody
November 28th, 2016, 07:52 AM
As I originally stated I think the vast majority here are not making a lot of cash with this hobby. "I" just like to try new things - as tastes move along - some look for pens - others nibs - inks. That's why I do appreciate honest peeople on this forum.

KrazyIvan
December 3rd, 2016, 11:02 AM
Personally, if you want to haggle, do it privately. If there is an outright problem with the post, bring it up on the thread. My biggest pet peeve are sellers not closing there sold threads. Once an item is sold and the thread is done, please mark your thread as sold, don't just add a comment to the thread saying its sold. This keeps it from coming back to the top of the new threads and wasting people's time browsing no longer relevant threads. It's in the thread tools menu at the top of your original post.

RocketRyan
December 4th, 2016, 06:30 AM
Maybe if you want all haggling done in private add it to your advertisement. After all we are all from different cultures and backgrounds, so what some feel should be done in private others like to do openly.
I will use it as an example in office environments it's frowned upon to discuss how much people earn, where as on a building site it's standard practice, just to make sure no one's being ripped off.

FrozenPen
December 4th, 2016, 06:15 PM
I think it's incumbent upon members of a hobbyist forum such as this to comment upon / raise questions about anything offered for sale. That's how we all learn. That's how we generate integrity in the hobby.
Price - well, that's whatever the market will bear. The only time I'd comment on price/value is if something is misrepresented (intentionally or not). Otherwise, I'd keep my comments focused on the attributes of the item for sale.

FredRydr
December 4th, 2016, 07:13 PM
Imagine selling your house, and when the agent brings interested buyers to see inside, your neighbors come over and follow them in. They start pointing out what they see as shortcomings, commenting on the high price, warning about rumors of water problems and termite infestation and title problems, even if they have no idea what they're talking about. You'd have the police telling them to get off your property.

The internet enables people to do things like that. Self restraint is a good thing. It's called netiquette.

Fred

FrozenPen
December 5th, 2016, 08:12 AM
Fred,
I'm thinking about a very specific case. For example, (and I'm a relative newbie so feel free to correct my assumptions) say there's a pen being offered for sale that is described as a "1960 Special Edition". But, in reality, it's not. It's really a standard edition with a 1960 Special Edition cap on it. A Frankenpen if you will.
I would never know. The buyer may not know. And the seller may very well not know either. Actually, I'd presume the seller was acting in good faith and they were unaware of the issue too. But if a forum member noticed the problem - shouldn't he say something so we can all learn?
It's this kind of issues I think should be commented on in a hobbyist forum. I agree that comments on condition, price, etc. would violate netiquette.
Jim.

jar
December 5th, 2016, 08:21 AM
Fred,
I'm thinking about a very specific case. For example, (and I'm a relative newbie so feel free to correct my assumptions) say there's a pen being offered for sale that is described as a "1960 Special Edition". But, in reality, it's not. It's really a standard edition with a 1960 Special Edition cap on it. A Frankenpen if you will.
I would never know. The buyer may not know. And the seller may very well not know either. Actually, I'd presume the seller was acting in good faith and they were unaware of the issue too. But if a forum member noticed the problem - shouldn't he say something so we can all learn?
It's this kind of issues I think should be commented on in a hobbyist forum. I agree that comments on condition, price, etc. would violate netiquette.
Jim.

In such cases, not just here but even at eBay, the procedure I follow is to assume first an honest mistake. I contact the seller back channel and politely (I know you value your high rating so just FYI ...) and in most cases I find the item gets removed or the description revised and I get a thank you response. If I do that and then get a "You don't know what you are talking about" or "Shove it" response I take the next step and report the issue to those who can remove the item.

It's only when those two issues fail that I might post something publicly.

FredRydr
December 5th, 2016, 09:10 AM
Fred, I'm thinking about a very specific case.
I agree, though my practice is to bring (what I perceive is) an error to the seller's attention by PM, suggesting an edit. If the listing isn't edited and I am confident I am right, then I post in the seller's thread. I wouldn't want a dispute dragging on in the seller's thread that turns out to be unwarranted, or damages the seller's rep over a mistake. Still, I can think of another specific case where a man in Edinburgh sold poorly restored Frankenblancs where PMs were batted back and forth, all the while sales of the monstrosities could take place until the issue was sorted. He was eventually banned from FPN.

I try to give sellers the benefit of the doubt and treat them with respect until the doubt runs out. I'd want to be treated that way.

Fred

FredRydr
December 11th, 2016, 07:53 PM
Well, for those who've felt that commentary in classified threads is fine, here's a good example that they aren't:
http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/18551-Pens-For-Sale

Fred

P.S. The offender advised he is deleting his unfortunate posts, so you might not see them by the time you read this.

RocketRyan
December 11th, 2016, 11:19 PM
I could only see one part of the comments, where someone was pointing out you could buy a new one cheaper! To someone who hasn't been around the hobby so long I think that was a good thing. And they were talking about 3 dollar. People need to chill it's a forum not ebay.

Jon Szanto
December 11th, 2016, 11:37 PM
I could only see one part of the comments, where someone was pointing out you could buy a new one cheaper! To someone who hasn't been around the hobby so long I think that was a good thing. And they were talking about 3 dollar. People need to chill it's a forum not ebay.

Part A: you couldn't see the other stuff because a bit of back-channel discussion took place, posts were deleted by the authors in good faith (as opposed to moderators censoring and deleting things without warning), and in general the issue was resolved amicably.

Part B: you are more than welcome to your opinion, but telling people to chill who have contributed a lot of material, over many years, to this site comes real close to a STFU response. Doesn't get all the way there, mind you, but in the unmoderated world we're living in here at FPG, I give cred and cede a certain power to the people who have built this place up. And that's my opinion, which I'm equally entitled to.

RocketRyan
December 12th, 2016, 12:32 AM
I did point out I could only see part of the post!!! Also that's a bit of an aggressive response! I would just say if you don't want comments don't post a thread, or add to your post please pm any questions or comments. It's not a lot to add is it!? You should visit the grand bazaar in Istanbul, all haggling is done in the street would really open your eyes to how the rest of the world goes about their business.
This is obviously just my opinion, which I am also entitled to.
Also sorry I haven't been here for years contributing but as I don't have a time machine that's just the way it is.

RocketRyan
December 12th, 2016, 12:42 AM
Just as a side note, I treat all people equally, regardless of time spent. I'm afraid my respect needs to be earned.

Jon Szanto
December 12th, 2016, 01:55 AM
I did point out I could only see part of the post!!! Also that's a bit of an aggressive response!

Indeed. However, I did say "real close."


Just as a side note, I treat all people equally, regardless of time spent.

As do I. I'd say no less to you had you been a founding member. And I respect anyone who cares enough to enter their opinion in matters such as this.

RocketRyan
December 12th, 2016, 02:12 AM
I meant your response, but don't worry about it. Have a lovely day.

VertOlive
December 14th, 2016, 06:22 PM
When I see a pen I'd like, I try to research the price online elsewhere. This works since I rarely buy vintage. If Goulet has it new for $100 and the seller is asking $175, I just don't buy it. If I want to haggle a bit, I do it via PM.

I do, however, appreciate it if a knowledgeable member publicly points out a fake Lamy (just an example) that I might have bought thinking it was rare.

Ebonite And Ivory
December 15th, 2016, 01:15 PM
Everyone is weighing in. I will, too. I kinda agree with Jar and some others on both sides. I think a PM shows more class. However, that does not mean posting in the comments section is "wrong." It is a forum. As soon as we start moderating ALL behavior (like when to use caps :)) then it ceases to be a true forum! Worts and all...
If you're going to make annoyingly low offers publicly, I think that's your right...and the seller has the right to ignore you or even respond with an auction style of comments. But I vote PM in most cases. Comments, too, can be done tastefully. Just be good to one another.

fountainpenkid
December 15th, 2016, 01:39 PM
I don't see any problem with merited and civilized discussion of someone's prices--if someone lists something for too much money, it only helps to tell them to be told about it (though as others have noted, private contact is usually preferable). In fact I was recently guilty of this (listing a beaten up and broken Lamy 2000 stainless steel for $115), and someone kindly brought me to my senses, stressing its flaws. My general rule has been to charge the minumum amount a similar pen has sold for on eBay, where prices are the most 'real'. It seems others do this as well.

FredRydr
March 14th, 2018, 05:00 AM
Like this? https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23793-Pen-Clearance-Pilot-Edison-Sailor-Lamy

Chrissy
March 14th, 2018, 05:23 AM
I saw that thread and decided to stay out of it. I don't see it as trolling to merely ask someone if something is priced as it is for a particular reason, i.e. the replating. I felt quite sorry for the person who asked and got his head bitten off for doing so. Seller certainly lost me as a buyer. :(

Scooby921
March 14th, 2018, 06:49 AM
Yeah. The OP went from angry to asshole with that latest post.

FredRydr
March 14th, 2018, 10:45 AM
Sorry, but the reply was inappropriate since he was disparaging the items based on price, and not a misrepresentation of the seller. The seller blew it as well, rather badly, and now it only gets worse as more commentary piles on.

Had it been my listing, I would have PMed the other geek and ask that he delete his post on the basis of netiquette. If he refused, then I would have edited the initial (original) post to one word: "Relisted" and marked the thread SOLD, thereby locking it to only the one reply post. The seller can copy and paste the text of the original listing as a new thread. If it doesn't sell, the seller still owns it or accepts an offer.

If you want an item and the price is grossly too high, MAKE YOUR REASONABLE OFFER rather than crapping in another's thread. If the seller is an asshole, don't even make an offer and just watch the listing drift down, down down....

Scooby921
March 14th, 2018, 11:03 AM
Sorry, but the reply was inappropriate since he was disparaging the items based on price, and not a misrepresentation of the seller. The seller blew it as well, rather badly, and now it only gets worse as more commentary piles on.

Had it been my listing, I would have PMed the other geek and ask that he delete his post on the basis of netiquette. If he refused, then I would have edited the initial (original) post to one word: "Relisted" and marked the thread SOLD, thereby locking it to only the one reply post. The seller can copy and paste the text of the original listing as a new thread. If it doesn't sell, the seller still owns it or accepts an offer.

If you want an item and the price is grossly too high, MAKE YOUR REASONABLE OFFER rather than crapping in another's thread. If the seller is an asshole, don't even make an offer and just watch the listing drift down, down down....
This is where I've been sitting on that FS post. I agree that $1100 for a $400 pen is asinine. I'm just nice enough not to say it aloud in the FS thread.

This isn't the first one to irk me either. On two occasions I've sold pens only to see the buyer list the item for sale at a higher price weeks later.

Woody
March 14th, 2018, 12:20 PM
Yeah. The OP went from angry to asshole with that latest post.

And quite often I check the post count of the people questioning. Granted it could be someone new. This one looked like a disrupter though. Baited the seller and he blew.

Woody
March 14th, 2018, 12:24 PM
Fred, I'm thinking about a very specific case.
I agree, though my practice is to bring (what I perceive is) an error to the seller's attention by PM, suggesting an edit. If the listing isn't edited and I am confident I am right, then I post in the seller's thread. I wouldn't want a dispute dragging on in the seller's thread that turns out to be unwarranted, or damages the seller's rep over a mistake. Still, I can think of another specific case where a man in Edinburgh sold poorly restored Frankenblancs where PMs were batted back and forth, all the while sales of the monstrosities could take place until the issue was sorted. He was eventually banned from FPN.

I try to give sellers the benefit of the doubt and treat them with respect until the doubt runs out. I'd want to be treated that way.

Fred

Thanks for the smile Fred. Lol at frankenblanc. Frankenpilot has a ring to it too.
Carry on.

Bill

FredRydr
March 14th, 2018, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the smile Fred. Lol at frankenblanc. Frankenpilot has a ring to it too.
We can have fun with that! I had a Frankelikan until I found the correct nib.

Stickler
March 14th, 2018, 03:16 PM
Sorry... if someone wants to try and sell a Jinhao 750 for $4000 that is their right. Caveat Emptor. It isn't a scam.. a smart buy will spend ten seconds on google and see it is a $12 pen and not buy it. Not my place to tell them they are wrong. If you want to send a PM to the seller -- fine.. but Let someone post a Pelikan 205 for $800 if they want.

It is only fraud to me.. if they say a M200 is a M1000 and asked for a M1000 price from false advertising. Someone tries to sell a Jinhao as a Montblanc.. that is wrong.. but selling something for any price (high or low) is the sellers perogative.

Pterodactylus
March 14th, 2018, 03:38 PM
Sorry... if someone wants to try and sell a Jinhao 750 for $4000 that is their right. Caveat Emptor. It isn't a scam.. a smart buy will spend ten seconds on google and see it is a $12 pen and not buy it. Not my place to tell them they are wrong. If you want to send a PM to the seller -- fine.. but Let someone post a Pelikan 205 for $800 if they want.

It is only fraud to me.. if they say a M200 is a M1000 and asked for a M1000 price from false advertising. Someone tries to sell a Jinhao as a Montblanc.. that is wrong.. but selling something for any price (high or low) is the sellers perogative.

I do not agree, this might be true for pure selling platforms like ebay, where nobody cares.
But I see FPGeeks not as selling platform, this is a pen community.

At least I care about the folks inside OUR community.
If somebody ask for help I try to help him.
If somebody needs advice and I can give it I will advice.
And if I see something which is obviously not correct, then I will point it out.
This explicitely include to point out if I see that somebody want to rip off less experienced community members.

And for sure I will not look the other way and claim that this is not my business, because we are a community here.
Nothing wrong trying to sell items at a good price (from seller perspective) but trying to rip off other community mates is a completely different story.

These selling threads (and there are way too many of them) are many times root cause of problems inside the community.

My personal opinion:
I wrote it many times in the past, I do not see FPGeeks as a selling platform, it’s a pen community.
I don’t like them and if it would be my site I would ban them from the site.

There are plenty of other options to sell stuff, why don´t they sell on eBay instead?

Ohhh, maybe because there are such nasty things like buyer protection, missing anonymity, warranty claims, selling fees, public seller Profiles, buyers feedback, transparency,......

All these nasty things can be easily excluded selling stuff on a forum.....

Stickler
March 15th, 2018, 05:12 AM
You said "if people ask".. but you aren't doing that. You are being a pricing warrior. If you want to send a private message to someone.. that is fine.. but it Joe buys a pen at $100 and sells it next week at $200 that is THEIR business. If Joe has a Vanishing Point and he wants to sell it at $1000 that is THEIR business. Value is in what people determine between each other.

People who are self-proclaimed policemen just irk me.

Now.. in a discussion board.. hey.. that is a conversation.. yap all you want here-- this is the place to do it. But imagine if every time you posted a sale on this board someone just started in waiving their hands and posting how they shouldn't pay your price or you aren't a good seller or the product isn't worth what YOU would pay for it.

I bet people love you standing outside your neighbors' yard sales commenting on everything people are considering buying.

Pterodactylus
March 15th, 2018, 07:47 AM
I don´t think this will lead into something.

To be honest, I don´t care if a sales thread is disturbed or not (normally I do not look at these threads actively because I hate such contentfree posts).
Imo all questions that might come up are valid and allowed to be asked, and not only in a private message also in that thread.
Because these questions might be interesting also for others.

So if somebody is trying to sell a pen of value x for a multiple of its value x*y , everybody has the right to ask why it was offered at this price point.
And the seller might not like such questions, but I and nobody else should care about this.
This guy want to sell something and if he really want to sell that crappy thing he has to answer any question that might come up.
If he do not like it, he still has the option to sell somewhere else.

And even if somebody post a link into his thread to an realistic priced other offer, then imo he has to say thank you for the info, and correct his (hopefully) accidentally made mistake.

Rip off people intentially is not an acceptable behavior, especially in a community where no control mechanisms are available.

Stickler
March 15th, 2018, 11:21 AM
Rip-off is a vacuous term. What isn't a deal for you may be a great deal for someone else. And it is not anyone's job to be the price police.

And it is recipricol courtesy.

Fraud is selling something with no intention of giving the advertised good. That is different. But price policing is just rude.

For example. If I put my Visconti Divina up for $700. There are places that sell it for that. There are places that sell it for more. There are places that sell it for less. There are used Visconti that sell for significantly less. Depending on condition and use, etc. all sorts of factors. So are you going to post to everyone where they can get it cheaper than $700?

What if the pen was very important to me. It was my grandfather's and I value it at $1400 for sentimental reasons. It may be a bad business decision.. but is that YOUR business? As long as it is what it is described as.. if there is a person out there that wants to pay $1400, that it THEIR business.

Mori45
March 18th, 2018, 03:50 PM
Tl;dr: It wasn't the question, it was the assertion without providing evidence.

Hi Fellow FPGeeks,

I am the asshole seller from the quoted post and would like to clarify that my frustration came not from the question, but from the other poster throwing out an alternative price without any supporting evidence. A quick FPG search led me to find that the poster previously bought a similar pen at around $400-500 some years back, which was market when they were in production. In the time between his purchase and my post, the nibs are out of production and longer readily available in the US or Japan. The poster's question wasn't the issue--it was the poster's alternative price offered on my thread, with no evidence to support other than "should be", which is not the same as a market reference point.

When checking for recent sales, one lonely pen appeared in ebay's sold searches, and I priced mine based on that pricing and three factors: availability of the nib, availability of the pen body, and their respective conditions. These pens aren't everyone's cup of tea, so I drafted the post for someone who would have known that availability was at issue. I later posted a screen shot of that pen auction in the thread. It would have taken minimal effort to check current pricing on his own, or to post his question without injecting his price opinion. The other poster did neither. I'm unable to edit or close posts, so unfortunately I was not able to close and repost as was suggested.

If my response makes me unwelcome here, then that's unfortunate. Still, I hope you can appreciate how frustrating it is to have done your research and have someone disagree without evidence, purely because they feel the outcome should be different.

Scooby921
March 19th, 2018, 06:31 AM
Tl;dr: It wasn't the question, it was the assertion without providing evidence.

Hi Fellow FPGeeks,

I am the asshole seller from the quoted post and would like to clarify that my frustration came not from the question, but from the other poster throwing out an alternative price without any supporting evidence. A quick FPG search led me to find that the poster previously bought a similar pen at around $400-500 some years back, which was market when they were in production. In the time between his purchase and my post, the nibs are out of production and longer readily available in the US or Japan. The poster's question wasn't the issue--it was the poster's alternative price offered on my thread, with no evidence to support other than "should be", which is not the same as a market reference point.

When checking for recent sales, one lonely pen appeared in ebay's sold searches, and I priced mine based on that pricing and three factors: availability of the nib, availability of the pen body, and their respective conditions. These pens aren't everyone's cup of tea, so I drafted the post for someone who would have known that availability was at issue. I later posted a screen shot of that pen auction in the thread. It would have taken minimal effort to check current pricing on his own, or to post his question without injecting his price opinion. The other poster did neither. I'm unable to edit or close posts, so unfortunately I was not able to close and repost as was suggested.

If my response makes me unwelcome here, then that's unfortunate. Still, I hope you can appreciate how frustrating it is to have done your research and have someone disagree without evidence, purely because they feel the outcome should be different.
Since I'm the one who specifically used the word "asshole"...

I saw no problem when the question was asked. I saw no problem when you responded and explained why. When you got a little heated and attacked the person (troll pic) it got too hostile. While the customer is seldom right, you can't go on the offensive when you're selling things.


As much as I may disagree with your price I do hope you can, at the very least, get back what you paid for the pen. I've owned and sold a few Sailor pens and, unfortunately, they don't seem to hold any value. If one person can get back what they paid perhaps it helps the value of every other Sailor.

FredRydr
March 19th, 2018, 06:51 AM
Not so much a matter of netiquette, but more of an FYI: Note the recent listing where the OP put his price in the title. Be aware that after a few minutes, a title cannot be edited insofar as how the title appears in the index. Since that price is, um, probably not going to withstand scrutiny, it may deter potential customers from even clicking on the thread. So, it's best to keep a price out of the title.

Scooby921
March 19th, 2018, 07:52 AM
Not so much a matter of netiquette, but more of an FYI: Note the recent listing where the OP put his price in the title. Be aware that after a few minutes, a title cannot be edited insofar as how the title appears in the index. Since that price is, um, probably not going to withstand scrutiny, it may deter potential customers from even clicking on the thread. So, it's best to keep a price out of the title.
This recently caught me out too. I posted a thread and put the wrong nib size in the title. Can't change the title, and likely should close the thread (marked as sold) and post a new one.

Chrissy
March 19th, 2018, 09:02 AM
Not so much a matter of netiquette, but more of an FYI: Note the recent listing where the OP put his price in the title. Be aware that after a few minutes, a title cannot be edited insofar as how the title appears in the index. Since that price is, um, probably not going to withstand scrutiny, it may deter potential customers from even clicking on the thread. So, it's best to keep a price out of the title.

Good point. :thumb:

Ahriman4891
March 25th, 2018, 02:35 PM
What if the pen was very important to me. It was my grandfather's and I value it at $1400 for sentimental reasons. It may be a bad business decision.. but is that YOUR business? As long as it is what it is described as.. if there is a person out there that wants to pay $1400, that it THEIR business.

You and Pterodactylus seem to be talking past each other. If this is a community, then yes, it's kinda everybody's business. If you want it to be YOUR business, either go to a specialized business platform or I guess try to make FPG less community-like.

I don't like censorship. I also don't like speculators trying to make a quick buck at the expense of fellow geeks (i.e. buying from one member and selling the pen for more two weeks later). I think asking a question in public is absolutely fine, as long as it is done politely, and there is no reason for the sellers to balk at it. The seller should have responded "I priced it as such because it's a rare nib in a rare body -- this is a recent eBay listing for reference; I feel my price is fair given these factors" instead of accusing the other member of trolling.

Stickler
March 25th, 2018, 02:46 PM
Would you Act that way if it was a pen show? Just stand outside someone’s booth telling people as they go look at pens that they could get a better deal elsewhere?

If you wouldn’t behave that way there— then you shouldn’t here. If you would there— how do you think that would play out with other vendors and coordinators?

Ahriman4891
March 25th, 2018, 03:30 PM
If a vendor tries to sell me a run-of-the-mill Visconti for $1400, I will definitely ask them why that particular pen is so expensive. It's OK if other attendees at that booth overhear me asking, I'm not going to whisper. If I strike a conversation with somebody and it turns to pen prices, I may say "Just saw vendor X trying to sell a Visconti for double the going rate, can you imagine?!" If, however, there were good deals at the vendor's table next to the Visconti, I would mention that too.

Your analogy would hold, somewhat, if I saw your sales post and then made separate threads in Italian Pens, Pens in General, and Market Feedback, titled "Beware! Stickler is selling a Visconti for $1400! Never buy anything from him!" -- i.e. 1) tried to broadcast it to as many people as possible, AND 2) generalized my disagreement with a single pen's price to "never buy from the guy, period". I don't think anyone would bother doing that unless they had a particular beef with you personally.

Stickler
March 26th, 2018, 04:03 PM
If a vendor tries to sell me a run-of-the-mill Visconti for $1400, I will definitely ask them why that particular pen is so expensive. It's OK if other attendees at that booth overhear me asking, I'm not going to whisper. If I strike a conversation with somebody and it turns to pen prices, I may say "Just saw vendor X trying to sell a Visconti for double the going rate, can you imagine?!" If, however, there were good deals at the vendor's table next to the Visconti, I would mention that too.

Your analogy would hold, somewhat, if I saw your sales post and then made separate threads in Italian Pens, Pens in General, and Market Feedback, titled "Beware! Stickler is selling a Visconti for $1400! Never buy anything from him!" -- i.e. 1) tried to broadcast it to as many people as possible, AND 2) generalized my disagreement with a single pen's price to "never buy from the guy, period". I don't think anyone would bother doing that unless they had a particular beef with you personally.

So our disagreement is narrow but deep. To me.. walking into someone’s b/s thread and saying that the price isn’t good enough is not the same as a private conversation with the seller (a PM is).. and so it might as well be someone standing next to a pen booth yelling.. “Hey everyone.. don’t buy this pen because I don’t think it is worth what he is selling it for!”

Distinct difference to me that is significant.

I don’t think it is you and I talking past each other but significant philosophical views that diverge in nuance of explaination.

FredRydr
April 7th, 2018, 06:47 AM
For those who believe it should be all wide open on the basis of protecting others, just remember this example (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23927-Brand-New-OMAS-Marconi-Limited-Edition-Blue) of when netiquette is ignored. Experience still supports the premise: Don't crap in other's classified listings. This applies to price policing and payment method policing. Absent of fraud, the terms of the deal are between the seller and the buyer.

(Of course, if you are the buyer, by all means, then insist on a lower price, or on PayPal Goods and Services, or on fully insured shipping, or any other terms you want in your deal. But do it by PM, not in the seller's thread.)

FredRydr
August 3rd, 2018, 02:00 PM
When you contact a seller, please don't post "PM sent" in classified threads. That doesn't help communication, and can confuse other geeks as to whether you've actually agreed to buy the item, taking it off the market.

I am confident that no sellers will recognize claims of "dibs" in FPGeeks, PM sent or not.

FredRydr
February 5th, 2019, 01:21 PM
For those who believe it should be all wide open on the basis of protecting others, just remember this example (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23927-Brand-New-OMAS-Marconi-Limited-Edition-Blue) of when netiquette is ignored. Experience still supports the premise: Don't crap in other's classified listings. This applies to price policing and payment method policing. Absent of fraud, the terms of the deal are between the seller and the buyer.

(Of course, if you are the buyer, by all means, then insist on a lower price, or on PayPal Goods and Services, or on fully insured shipping, or any other terms you want in your deal. But do it by PM, not in the seller's thread.)

<sigh!> https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23549-Pelikan-M800-Red-Stripe-–-PRICE-REDUCED?p=258042&viewfull=1#post258042

Chrissy
February 5th, 2019, 02:28 PM
For those who believe it should be all wide open on the basis of protecting others, just remember this example (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23927-Brand-New-OMAS-Marconi-Limited-Edition-Blue) of when netiquette is ignored. Experience still supports the premise: Don't crap in other's classified listings. This applies to price policing and payment method policing. Absent of fraud, the terms of the deal are between the seller and the buyer.

(Of course, if you are the buyer, by all means, then insist on a lower price, or on PayPal Goods and Services, or on fully insured shipping, or any other terms you want in your deal. But do it by PM, not in the seller's thread.)

<sigh!> https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23549-Pelikan-M800-Red-Stripe-–-PRICE-REDUCED?p=258042&viewfull=1#post258042

I saw this too. :(

Dhruv
February 5th, 2019, 08:48 PM
For those who believe it should be all wide open on the basis of protecting others, just remember this example (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23927-Brand-New-OMAS-Marconi-Limited-Edition-Blue) of when netiquette is ignored. Experience still supports the premise: Don't crap in other's classified listings. This applies to price policing and payment method policing. Absent of fraud, the terms of the deal are between the seller and the buyer.

(Of course, if you are the buyer, by all means, then insist on a lower price, or on PayPal Goods and Services, or on fully insured shipping, or any other terms you want in your deal. But do it by PM, not in the seller's thread.)

<sigh!> https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/23549-Pelikan-M800-Red-Stripe-–-PRICE-REDUCED?p=258042&viewfull=1#post258042

Just FYI, I did contact this guy when that listing was made, to buy the pen. This was initially listed at $800+.
So kindly do not speak when you don't know anything. It's a regular M800, that usually sells for €360/$400. And used ones should be lower.

And please put a title on whatever pm you send. I am not able to open it.

FredRydr
February 6th, 2019, 04:30 AM
Just FYI, I did contact this guy when that listing was made, to buy the pen. This was initially listed at $800+.
It's a regular M800, that usually sells for €360/$400. And used ones should be lower.

And please put a title on whatever pm you send. I am not able to open it.
The point is, it's very poor netiquette to crap in another's For Sale thread because you want to police prices. Perhaps you are upset that the seller doesn't accept your offers, but that's still not a good reason to crap in his thread. And who are you to tell others what the value of the pen shall be to them? It hasn't sold for a year; the market is determining the selling price quite well.

If you really feel you must vent about it, just start a thread in the Pelikan subform for discussion of going prices for new and used Pelikan M800s without attacking your fellow Geeks' For sale listings.

As for the blank PM, that's vBulletin's doing, and it's not the first time.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 07:29 AM
The point is, it's very poor netiquette to crap in another's For Sale thread because you want to police prices. Perhaps you are upset that the seller doesn't accept your offers, but that's still not a good reason to crap in his thread. And who are you to tell others what the value of the pen shall be to them? It hasn't sold for a year; the market is determining the selling price quite well.

If you really feel you must vent about it, just start a thread in the Pelikan subform for discussion of going prices for new and used Pelikan M800s without attacking your fellow Geeks' For sale listings.

As for the blank PM, that's vBulletin's doing, and it's not the first time.

I could say the same thing to you: what business do you have in saying this unless you are one of the transacting parties, or the forum moderator?

No issues about the pm. I converted the entire mailbox to text and was able to read it. Can't reply to it though.

AzJon
February 6th, 2019, 08:17 AM
[QUOTE=Dhruv;258135
what business do you have in saying this unless you are...the forum moderator?
[/QUOTE]


No, because if he were (or there was indeed a participating moderator) the post would have simply been removed.

penwash
February 6th, 2019, 08:55 AM
The point is, it's very poor netiquette to crap in another's For Sale thread because you want to police prices. Perhaps you are upset that the seller doesn't accept your offers, but that's still not a good reason to crap in his thread. And who are you to tell others what the value of the pen shall be to them? It hasn't sold for a year; the market is determining the selling price quite well.

If you really feel you must vent about it, just start a thread in the Pelikan subform for discussion of going prices for new and used Pelikan M800s without attacking your fellow Geeks' For sale listings.

As for the blank PM, that's vBulletin's doing, and it's not the first time.

I could say the same thing to you: what business do you have in saying this unless you are one of the transacting parties, or the forum moderator?

No issues about the pm. I converted the entire mailbox to text and was able to read it. Can't reply to it though.

If you have been participating in this forum (not just shopping the For Sale section), then you'd notice that the owner of this forum does not assign active moderator. So the forum etiquette moderation is left for those who care enough to voluntarily step up once in a while.

Fred has been one of those members and I for one appreciate that extra effort that he wasn't required to give at all.

Your response to his prompting is confrontative, and that's also not cool. Can we not resolve an issue with reasoning instead of arguments?

carlos.q
February 6th, 2019, 09:36 AM
I could say the same thing to you: what business do you have in saying this unless you are one of the transacting parties, or the forum moderator?



I believe this is precisely the issue. If you had sent the seller a PM with your objections regarding the pen's price then this business would be limited to the transacting parties. But the moment you posted a public comment in this forum then it becomes everybody's business.

I also believe that no one is questioning your opinions (founded or not) as to the pen's price. You have every right to object a price, haggle and make any offer you choose. But in the future please do it privately. And let's be nice with each other...

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 10:05 AM
I believe this is precisely the issue. If you had sent the seller a PM with your objections regarding the pen's price then this business would be limited to the transacting parties. But the moment you posted a public comment in this forum then it becomes everybody's business.

I also believe that no one is questioning your opinions (founded or not) as to the pen's price. You have every right to object a price, haggle and make any offer you choose. But in the future please do it privately. And let's be nice with each other...

I will skip replying to 3 different members separately, hope that's fine.
I never objected to his price, not in public, neither privately. Neither do I haggle, irrespective of where I am buying from. I either agree with the price or I disagree with it. I will only ask once what the price is, and leave it at that. I never objected to his price on pm either, I asked once is he willing to price this like a normal M800 instead of some random markup, he declined, and I left it at that saying "not interested then". And another message from him after that which I did not respond to.
Neither did I do that on the listing. I only mentioned how much I finally got it for.

As for it being everybody's business: I politely disagree. I don't go around stopping street fights. I firmly believe in minding my own business irrespective of what anyone else thinks. As long as it doesn't pertain to me, no need for me to butt in.

I apologise if I came across as not being nice with other posters/members here. Wasn't my intention.

AzJon
February 6th, 2019, 10:17 AM
I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...

The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.

Pterodactylus
February 6th, 2019, 11:15 AM
I also think that the post in selling thread was a bad idea in that case.
Imo it would be different if you see an offer of something still in production ridiculously overpriced, but these pens are out of production and the market regulates the price.
And these pens go up in price, if you like it or not is another question.
If you were able to shoot one of them for less than 400, great but this does not allow you to spoil another ones thread.

Side note, if you need a second one you should take a look at one which is currently offered on ebay for 775$ plus about 50$ shipping.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Pelikan-FH-M800-Schwarz-Rot-Neu/333052663004?hash=item4d8b7c54dc:g:~oUAAOSw4jxb5~0 1

:butcher::deadhorse::jester:

Bzzer
February 6th, 2019, 11:20 AM
I am trying to think what could be the motive of posting a negative comment on someone's classified page. I once had a question on a classified, I thought that the seller had made a mistake or had not made a defect sufficiently clear. I asked the seller a question by PM and they gave a 100% reassurance as to the correctness of the sale, and all was good.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 12:36 PM
I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...

The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.

Okay now I am slightly annoyed. Making them aware, yes, I did that. So?

And please keep your minding your own business comments to yourself. I at least contacted the seller to buy the pen, you lot weren't even in the picture. At most this is kangaroo type court justice.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 12:39 PM
I also think that the post in selling thread was a bad idea in that case.
Imo it would be different if you see an offer of something still in production ridiculously overpriced, but these pens are out of production and the market regulates the price.
And these pens go up in price, if you like it or not is another question.
If you were able to shoot one of them for less than 400, great but this does not allow you to spoil another ones thread.

Side note, if you need a second one you should take a look at one which is currently offered on ebay for 775$ plus about 50$ shipping.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Pelikan-FH-M800-Schwarz-Rot-Neu/333052663004?hash=item4d8b7c54dc:g:~oUAAOSw4jxb5~0 1

:butcher::deadhorse::jester:

This was my second one. I already have a 3B M800 red stripe. Don't like the nib though. Too broad.

Edit: which is why I was looking for a finer nib. I don't keep nib units around. Full pens only.

Bzzer
February 6th, 2019, 02:03 PM
I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...

The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.

Okay now I am slightly annoyed. Making them aware, yes, I did that. So?

And please keep your minding your own business comments to yourself. I at least contacted the seller to buy the pen, you lot weren't even in the picture. At most this is kangaroo type court justice.

If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 02:12 PM
If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.

Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

Jon Szanto
February 6th, 2019, 02:32 PM
Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

Absent a concerned and involved administrator, it has been left up to the community to address issues such as this in an open discussion. While we may not be able to take action in any immediate way, we can attempt to contact the owner and make them aware of any problematic issues that have occured. In a very significant way, it is our business, and it does concern us, especially when someone is being a dickish lout for no reason at all.

FredRydr
February 6th, 2019, 02:33 PM
Suppose that it was malevolent, so?....
Well, at least that's settled. And here I naively thought it was just a lack of courtesy.

mulrich
February 6th, 2019, 02:34 PM
I just bought the exact same one with EF nib... for less than $400...

The post in question. That is public. That is objecting to the price, or at least making them aware that you have paid less for one.

Minding your own business is not commenting at all and just moving on.

Okay now I am slightly annoyed. Making them aware, yes, I did that. So?

I think AzJon's point is saying you paid significantly less for the same pen is the same thing as publicly objecting to the price which is generally considered rude and inconsiderate.

Just because you found a good deal doesn't mean the price you paid is market value. Contextual factors (such as location, pen condition, seller motivation, or seller knowledge about pens) have a huge influence on prices (both up or down).
A person on FPN recently found a rare pen in new condition from a small stationary shop for ~$500. The stationary shop didn't know these pens often sell for $800-1200 in used condition, they were just trying to clear out old inventory. If this person were to share their purchase price on a classified for the same pen it could lead potential buyers to believe that $500 is a fair price even though that was a rare find and incredible deal. This will make selling the pen at market value almost impossible.

By stating your price on the classified listing you're essentially keeping the seller from selling the pen and also creating a hassle for the seller who will now likely have to deal people making offers below what the seller is willing to consider.
Even if you think the price is inflated it's considered good etiquette to not bring up those opinions publicly. The pen in question had been listed for almost a year without selling, which suggests the price was above market but that's not your place to say or decide (the market was already doing this). I've seen the same pen sell for between $425-700 in the last year.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 02:41 PM
Suppose that it was malevolent, so?....
Well, at least that's settled. And here I naively thought it was just a lack of courtesy.

The word "suppose" has a meaning. It wasn't intended to be malevolent.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 02:43 PM
Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

Absent a concerned and involved administrator, it has been left up to the community to address issues such as this in an open discussion. While we may not be able to take action in any immediate way, we can attempt to contact the owner and make them aware of any problematic issues that have occured. In a very significant way, it is our business, and it does concern us, especially when someone is being a dickish lout for no reason at all.

Then discuss all you want. But don't expect members to follow the brand of justice that you set.
And keep your threats to yourself, dickwad.

Jon Szanto
February 6th, 2019, 02:47 PM
Then discuss all you want. But don't expect members to follow the brand of justice that you set.
And keep your threats to yourself, dickwad.

Bite me.

AzJon
February 6th, 2019, 03:43 PM
Man, this thread got spicy since I last logged on.

Dhruv, mate, you realized you can't keep telling people to mind their own business when you keep insisting on inserting your business and opinions into the matter on an open public forum, yeah?

All I was saying, as mulrich correctly asserted, is that a public comment, for all to see, questioning the price (yes, using an ellipses (...) after naming a price that is half of what is being asked is questioning or at very least judging) that someone set on an out of make model of pen is being the opposite of minding your own business.

No need to get defensive for other people calling you out on your rude sales board etiquette. Next time, just roll your eyes and ignore the post or pm the person directly (still rude, but hey).

manoeuver
February 6th, 2019, 04:42 PM
nanny nanny boo boo!

Dickwad draws a lotta water around here, mister.

And I got a red pen for fifty bucks, so SUCK IT.

whichwatch
February 6th, 2019, 05:26 PM
Now that this thread has descended to new levels, please allow me, as the person who posted the pen in question for sale, to make a few comments.

First, recognize that the sales post that started all this was made more than a year ago. The pen actually did sell fairly quickly, at just below my asking price. So I guess my pricing at the time the post was originally made wasn't as bad as some believe. I know the buyer, see him from time to time, and he remains quite happy with it. The fact that someone found a lower price more than a year later is irrelevant. Maybe in another year the price will be higher, maybe lower yet. Market prices do change, as we all know.

I am indeed guilty, but in this case not of incorrect pricing since the pen did in fact sell. I am guilty of failing to mark the pen as "sold" - one of the issues Fred properly reminds us of from time to time.

When I saw Dhruv's post saying he had found one at a much lower price, it annoyed me even though the pen had been sold. I always feel these sorts of posts are awfully inconsiderate to the sellers. Unfortunately, inconsiderate jerks do exist on almost all Forums, as Dhruv has proven through his posts.

Most of us here are collectors, not professional dealers. Sometimes we do get prices wrong. It's funny how nobody complains when the price is too low. But let someone price too high and the accusations of gouging start pretty quickly. Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe the person paid too much for the pen and didn't know the current market. Maybe the person had mixed feelings about selling the pen at all and figured he'd sell only if the price were high enough, so that's how he priced it. Maybe geography plays a big role (such as Pelikan prices in US vs Europe or Sailor prices in Japan vs US).

There are a number of regular sellers on Ebay who set prices so high most collectors wonder how they ever sell a pen. So? As others have said, the market usually speaks quite clearly.

I've bought and sold many dozens, probably hundreds of pens on FPG as well as other venues. Most sell very quickly, indicating my prices must generally be pretty fair. I would bet all my money that I sometimes get them wrong. If so, the market will let me know and I can adjust. But few don't sell in a reasonable time, and nobody bats 1.000, so I guess I'm doing OK.

I've gone on long enough. If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. I'm going to go make some more popcorn and watch (I mean read) the rest of the show.

dneal
February 6th, 2019, 06:33 PM
If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.

Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

It's a public forum. Once you post publicly, you made it everybody's business. Want it to be private? Use the private message system. This isn't a difficult concept.

A wise old sergeant once said, "show your ass if you want, just don't complain when it gets spanked." Folks appear to be lined up, paddles in hand...

Honestly, I'm astounded that you searched for a year old thread and bumped it with your "I bought one cheaper" comment.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 06:38 PM
Man, this thread got spicy since I last logged on.

Dhruv, mate, you realized you can't keep telling people to mind their own business when you keep insisting on inserting your business and opinions into the matter on an open public forum, yeah?

All I was saying, as mulrich correctly asserted, is that a public comment, for all to see, questioning the price (yes, using an ellipses (...) after naming a price that is half of what is being asked is questioning or at very least judging) that someone set on an out of make model of pen is being the opposite of minding your own business.

No need to get defensive for other people calling you out on your rude sales board etiquette. Next time, just roll your eyes and ignore the post or pm the person directly (still rude, but hey).

You can blame someone up there for it. Rude replies (according to you) aren't same as this.

I disagree with the public comment. I have been a member for 4 years now, and with only 110 or so posts including 10 in this thread. I log in regularly, check all threads etc. Yet I stay away from what doesn't concern me. It's really not necessary that you need to respond to everything posted in a forum.

Dhruv
February 6th, 2019, 06:44 PM
If it is a kangaroo court then the only conclusion that a reasonable person could jump to was that your comment was meant to be malevolent.

Suppose that it was malevolent, so? It is between me and the seller. Who are you to say anything?
Also, did I say anything to you? So what's your problem?

Mind your own business. If something does not concern you, stay out of it.

It's a public forum. Once you post publicly, you made it everybody's business. Want it to be private? Use the private message system. This isn't a difficult concept.

A wise old sergeant once said, "show your ass if you want, just don't complain when it gets spanked." Folks appear to be lined up, paddles in hand...

Honestly, I'm astounded that you searched for a year old thread and bumped it with your "I bought one cheaper" comment.

Part of the reason why I was looking for one. I did want a finer writing pen, but that last comment that "you will never find it for cheaper" prompted me to go and seriously look for one. I had a point to prove. It took some time, but I did it.

As for paddles, let them come.

So yeah, don't make pointless comments to potential buyers either. It won't work out well for you. Hopefully you include this too in your so called classified etiquettes actually no, this happened on pm so not related to classified etiquettes.

Farmboy
February 6th, 2019, 11:19 PM
I'm generally happy not selling pens online, I'm often reminded of this.

whichwatch
February 9th, 2019, 04:12 PM
Here is an auction that closed today. I'm just sayin'

http://www.fototime.com/%7B50BBDE69-DBF7-4F8C-8CF9-F1B7A8CFBE78%7D/origpict/E%2520closed.png

calamus
February 12th, 2020, 03:11 PM
I believe this is precisely the issue. If you had sent the seller a PM with your objections regarding the pen's price then this business would be limited to the transacting parties. But the moment you posted a public comment in this forum then it becomes everybody's business.

I also believe that no one is questioning your opinions (founded or not) as to the pen's price. You have every right to object a price, haggle and make any offer you choose. But in the future please do it privately. And let's be nice with each other...

I will skip replying to 3 different members separately, hope that's fine.
I never objected to his price, not in public, neither privately. Neither do I haggle, irrespective of where I am buying from. I either agree with the price or I disagree with it. I will only ask once what the price is, and leave it at that. I never objected to his price on pm either, I asked once is he willing to price this like a normal M800 instead of some random markup, he declined, and I left it at that saying "not interested then". And another message from him after that which I did not respond to.
Neither did I do that on the listing. I only mentioned how much I finally got it for.

As for it being everybody's business: I politely disagree. I don't go around stopping street fights. I firmly believe in minding my own business irrespective of what anyone else thinks. As long as it doesn't pertain to me, no need for me to butt in.

I apologise if I came across as not being nice with other posters/members here. Wasn't my intention.

It apppears (to me, anyway) that your intention is to tell everyone who pisses you off to go to hell.