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stub
December 3rd, 2016, 01:57 AM
http://www.peneconomics.com/blog/2016/12/2/precious-resin

Pterodactylus
December 3rd, 2016, 02:28 AM
A meager post.... a headline and a link....... nothing more?

What do you want to tell us with this link?
Do you run that website and want to increase the traffic there?
Do you want to tell us something about the plastic Montblanc is using?
Is there something new regarding their resin? Maybe new use case... can it be also used as computer memory... or is it health dangerous ;)

Or did you just post the link because you found the info there interesting and wanted to share it ;)

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 02:41 AM
Posted (on the run) as FYI. A well known pen blogger whose posts have previously kicked up some dust and he's had issues over at that other forum. Perhaps folks might be interested in his arguments here. I have my own thoughts which I have stated before and am happy to repeat here later on a larger screen.

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 04:25 AM
I mostly agree with the blog post.

here's the td;lr since you have smacked my hand for a meager post. Rightly so.

Let me preface this by saying the the petite bourgeois trappings of the brand are hideous to me and make my skin crawl. I have largely avoided the brand because of that and I am not inclined to like anything of this sort. The signifying the brand perpetuates is repulsive and pernicious and the timeless, lofty and regal European ethos they peddle is so amped up as to be almost cartoonish. But then I am an angry working class heathen and a cartoon myself. har har.

But here is the problem: I actually like the pens. Not the fancy sculptural bejewel limited numbers but the regular issue pens. Your bone stock 146 is a hell of a great pen. (but then the pen they modeled it on is too, and (imo), is perhaps the best modern production pen ever made: Sheaffer Balance)

So there you go. Life is complicated isn't it?

& it always sticks in my craw when folks harp on an on about the 'precious resin' even though I know these folks are likely more aligned with me and I admire their desire to cut through BS. But here is the rub (literally):

Precious resin does not feel like plastic. You are not going to dent it with your finger nail. It may, technically be a plastic but it feels hard almost like fiberglass. I find it has an exceptionally nice feel in the hand. Ergonomically it is a champ too. Additionally: I do not know what the properties of this material are but my stock early/mid 1990s 146 is absolutely reliable and consistent. It is ALWAYS INKED. I leave it on my desk at home usually. If I go on a trip or go though one of my multi-month medical adventures and leave it inked, when I return, uncap the pen, and put nib to paper, it writes like it was inked up that day.

I want so bad to hate MB. But they make good pen. Overpriced? yes. (I got mine in a trade many many years go with the intent to sell it. It is still here).

To make it worse, I think with the possible exception of Sailor, MB makes the best inks of any of the major companies. I have NEVER had a MB ink problem in any pen. The colors are nice, flow is often a tad dry but often good lubrication and they clean out and are trouble free with easy to use bottles with nice big grabby bits on the cap.

It would be easier for me if they made crap pens and I could just hate on them and point and laugh at all the sheeple and their bourgeois dreams but I really like the pens. I would love to one more than the one I do have and I do like a lot of their vintage pens (would love a 254, etc.)

So there...

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 04:38 AM
Also that absolutely redonkulous Montblanc Music nib/car hood monster pen Azizah Asgarali keeps posting on Instagram... hubba hubba. MB does that too.

FredRydr
December 3rd, 2016, 06:58 AM
My pen collecting used to center on Montblanc, especially vintage. I'm not a German language scholar, but it's been well over a decade since I last read the same take on the wrong English translation. I still believe it's true until a German speaker tells me it's not. Meanwhile, "precious resin" has long been the butt of jokes (perhaps deservedly so since Montblanc was bought and used by Dunhill and Richemont to move into the luxury goods market). In any event, I don't take it seriously and I'll still make fun of it. Of course, that's a banning offense in FPN (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum-69/announcement-9-montblanc-forum-rules/).

Fred

P.S. Here is Smeagol "Gollum" Hoffman testing the latest designs in precious resin in Montblanc's R&D lab:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bb/fd/56/bbfd5675890416fdfd1256caae952f99.jpg

RocketRyan
December 3rd, 2016, 07:28 AM
Are Montblanc pens over priced? New I would say yes, however I have bought 3 pre owned (2 fountain pens and a rollerball) and have found them for prices that I thought were fair for a branded product.
I would also like to add my 146 is nearly 20 years old, and still looks as good as new, so what ever precious resin is it certainly stands the test of time.

jar
December 3rd, 2016, 07:35 AM
Are Montblanc pens over priced?

Not if they sell. If new Montblancs get sold then by definition they are not overpriced.

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 08:00 AM
Are Montblanc pens over priced?

Not if they sell. If new Montblancs get sold then by definition they are not overpriced.

Internet forums are chit chat and sometimes people use language somewhat loosely.

They could say overpriced and mean what you say, a meaning close to what you might find in an economics text, used a semi-objective assessment of why something literally fails in the market place.

Or one could, in casual conversation use "overpriced" as a shorthand for "I think item is not a great value and not worth the asking price (to me, as opinion) and does not give the best return for the money.

Did you truly not understand what he likely meant (esp. given the context provided by the rest of his post)? ("I would say" ... "I bought used")?

I could be wrong but it seemed to me that there was an invisible "to me, in my opinion" etc. implied there.

jar
December 3rd, 2016, 08:40 AM
Are Montblanc pens over priced?

Not if they sell. If new Montblancs get sold then by definition they are not overpriced.

Internet forums are chit chat and sometimes people use language somewhat loosely.

They could say overpriced and mean what you say, a meaning close to what you might find in an economics text, used a semi-objective assessment of why something literally fails in the market place.

Or one could, in casual conversation use "overpriced" as a shorthand for "I think item is not a great value and not worth the asking price (to me, as opinion) and does not give the best return for the money.

Did you truly not understand what he likely meant (esp. given the context provided by the rest of his post)? ("I would say" ... "I bought used")?

I could be wrong but it seemed to me that there was an invisible "to me, in my opinion" etc. implied there.

There may well be some invisible words and text but if so, I cannot read invisible text. In addition, the concept was presented as a question, not as an opinion. Whether an individual thinks something is over priced is totally unrelated to the actual fact of whether or not something is over priced. The fact that people use sloppy language in a casual conversation often leads to misunderstandings and so should be discouraged.

If someone says "I think Montblanc products are over priced and not a great value" then I would have no issues with their position at all.

AbE:

Consider this. Someone is able to buy a used Montblanc pen only because someone else originally bought it as new.

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 08:59 AM
If someone says "I think Montblanc products are over priced and not a great value" then I would have no issues with their position at all.

Given the context of the rest of the post that is what I deduced it to mean. Generally.

Sometimes generous readings are called for. This kind of oneupmanship and semantic nitpick just bogs down the conversation, which is what I take a forum to be, conversation and not a vetted academic science journal.

Alright. I guess all the dead horses have been beaten here. So much for this conversation.

I think this guy's blog is interesting. It can't be discussed over there *spits* so I though some might be interested in it here and also curious to know if anyone else has any other thoughts about MB resin.

Some of this cotton resin, vegetable resin, organic whatever stuff seems like marketing mumbo jumbo but Omas resins do have an odd soft feel and the MB resin has the opposite, a hard almost glass like feel. Both feel different from the ABS plastic on a Lamy Safari.

Pterodactylus
December 3rd, 2016, 11:45 AM
Fred, I'm a native German speaker.

precious resign is just a word per word translation of the German word Edelharz.

Harz = resin
Edel = precious

But a better translation might be not ordinary resin, or high quality resin, or exclusive resin.

We also say Edelstein (gemstone) = word per Word: precious stone
But also Edelstahl = stainless steel which is also not translated as precious steel.
Or German Edelschwein which is a German pig race, but nobody would translate it as precious pig.
Or A flower called Edelweiß but nobody would do a word per word translation and call it precious white flower.
Edel can be translated as precious but also as not common, not ordinary, better than normal, high quality, exclusive,....

KrazyIvan
December 3rd, 2016, 11:50 AM
I'm not qualified to interpret German so just a question, when did MB start using the term precious resin and could it be that the meaning has changed since it was first used? Just thinking out loud.

FredRydr
December 3rd, 2016, 11:56 AM
Thank you, pterodactus! I like your better translations; they seem to make more sense.

Fred

stub
December 3rd, 2016, 12:16 PM
Fancy resin. Thanks for the lesson Pterodactylus. And honestly isn't that more or less what it is? Exclusive or not ordinary resin?

RocketRyan
December 4th, 2016, 07:18 AM
Sorry should have been a bit clearer, in my opinion and with my budget/willing to spend, new mont blanc pens are a bit over priced for what you get.
I think you can get a comparable product for less, but you are buying a branded product. Bit like an iPhone, there are better phones for less, but if you want an iPhone you have to pay for one.
This is all subjective obviously, buy what makes you happy.

jar
December 4th, 2016, 07:41 AM
Sorry should have been a bit clearer, in my opinion and with my budget/willing to spend, new mont blanc pens are a bit over priced for what you get.
I think you can get a comparable product for less, but you are buying a branded product. Bit like an iPhone, there are better phones for less, but if you want an iPhone you have to pay for one.
This is all subjective obviously, buy what makes you happy.

Absolutely. For example I find almost all of the low end Chinese pens obscenely overpriced even when they sell for less than $5.00.

RocketRyan
December 4th, 2016, 08:41 AM
Lol I find Chinese pens a lot of fun. But you are right most are junk.
On a plus though I have a jinhao x450 that's wonderful, luck of the draw I suppose.

Wile E Coyote
December 4th, 2016, 08:50 AM
Lol I find Chinese pens a lot of fun. But you are right most are junk.
On a plus though I have a jinhao x450 that's wonderful, luck of the draw I suppose.


Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while.

Sailor Kenshin
December 4th, 2016, 09:58 AM
Lol I find Chinese pens a lot of fun. But you are right most are junk.
On a plus though I have a jinhao x450 that's wonderful, luck of the draw I suppose.


Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while.

Since pigs locate truffles by scent, I'd say more often than that.

Brilliant Bill
December 4th, 2016, 10:41 AM
I don't really know anything about MB (except that it seems to be a polarizing brand), but I do know the guy who wrote that needs an editor. I stopped reading him a while back for that reason. He doesn't seem to have much to say that matters, and he wastes many hours of human productivity proving it.

RocketRyan
December 4th, 2016, 10:45 AM
Very true, but due to the volume of them China churns out thearly odd gem must slip through.

Wile E Coyote
December 4th, 2016, 11:50 AM
Lol I find Chinese pens a lot of fun. But you are right most are junk.
On a plus though I have a jinhao x450 that's wonderful, luck of the draw I suppose.


Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while.



Since pigs locate truffles by scent, I'd say more often than that.

ok, blind squirrel finds an acorn, million monkeys...etc, you get the point.

Now I suppose Waski will chime in.

TSherbs
December 4th, 2016, 12:16 PM
I don't really know anything about MB (except that it seems to be a polarizing brand), but I do know the guy who wrote that needs an editor. I stopped reading him a while back for that reason. He doesn't seem to have much to say that matters, and he wastes many hours of human productivity proving it.

I could not finish any of his "essays." And I am paid to read essays.

Pendel
December 4th, 2016, 12:57 PM
I wonder if someone here possesses the information on how the plastics that MB uses for its 149s have changed over the decades.

For example, we have all heard that there has been a brittle period (is it over???), and I have found over the years that the modern 2-piece barrel design, with its bayonet clips holding the section within the barrel, seems to be prone to micro-cracks that one can observe through the barrel window with a magnifier and strong light.

The one piece design seems to suffer from this deficiency less, at least in my experience, so it may be that the plastic used before the mid-80's was less brittle and more flexible, which often means more prone to become dull with use.

I would be very interested to hear if any of you have reliable information on the evolution of the plastics used for MB149.

:-)

pajaro
December 4th, 2016, 10:23 PM
Since my Montblancs are among the best pens I have used, I think they are worth the price.

dadbar
December 5th, 2016, 11:17 AM
The Montblanc resin feels identical to the resin on my UK made Parker 45. If you were blindfolded and felt the barrel of both pens, you would not be able to tell the difference.

I thought that article was pretty funny. Having worked in the injection molding area, I very much doubt that Montblanc uses enough plastic worldwide to get anybody's attention to make a "custom formulation." It is more likely that the resin in the pens has changed because plastics companies keep discontinuing products due to buyouts and consolidations. The high price of fuel a few years back "fueled" a lot of these industry changes. Unless you are a huge plastics consumer like an auto manufacturer, you have no clout in getting anything done especially for you.

stub
December 5th, 2016, 12:09 PM
The Montblanc resin feels identical to the resin on my UK made Parker 45. If you were blindfolded and felt the barrel of both pens, you would not be able to tell the difference.


I own a dozen or so U.K. 45s. Big fan. I love the 45. I also own a MB 146. No way in hell are they the same material.

You see the way the clutch ring on the cap cause indentations on the P45 section? Run your fingernail on the material section and barrel and do the same on the MB resin. No way these are the same plastics. The MB is harder and the Parker deforms more easily Right?

I mean I could tested but then I'd probably have to damage my pen to confirm it.

dadbar
December 5th, 2016, 12:15 PM
The Montblanc resin feels identical to the resin on my UK made Parker 45. If you were blindfolded and felt the barrel of both pens, you would not be able to tell the difference.


I own a dozen or so U.K. 45s. Big fan. I love the 45. I also own a MB 146. No way in hell are they the same material.

You see the way the clutch ring on the cap cause indentations on the P45 section? Run your fingernail on the material section and barrel and do the same on the MB resin. No way these are the same plastics. The MB is harder and the Parker deforms more easily Right?

I mean I could tested but then I'd probably have to damage my pen to confirm it.

You've piqued my interest. After the holidays, I will scan my Montblanc 147 and Parker 45 with a lab spectrometer (mine does UV to NIR) to look at the surface reflectance spectrum of both pens. It's a pretty good indicator of the plastic being used.

stub
December 5th, 2016, 12:28 PM
I was going to do that but my neighbor borrowed my spectrometer and never brought it back. THAT GUY!


OK joking aside I seriously do want to know if they have the same or not.

Can a spectrometer also be used to tell the composition of metal? I have some nibs and I'm very curious to know if they are unhallmarked palladium silver or just steel.

Wile E Coyote
December 5th, 2016, 12:29 PM
The Montblanc resin feels identical to the resin on my UK made Parker 45. If you were blindfolded and felt the barrel of both pens, you would not be able to tell the difference.


I own a dozen or so U.K. 45s. Big fan. I love the 45. I also own a MB 146. No way in hell are they the same material.

You see the way the clutch ring on the cap cause indentations on the P45 section? Run your fingernail on the material section and barrel and do the same on the MB resin. No way these are the same plastics. The MB is harder and the Parker deforms more easily Right?

I mean I could tested but then I'd probably have to damage my pen to confirm it.

You've piqued my interest. After the holidays, I will scan my Montblanc 147 and Parker 45 with a lab spectrometer (mine does UV to NIR) to look at the surface reflectance spectrum of both pens. It's a pretty good indicator of the plastic being used.


If you want to experiment with toys. Look at both in the IR spectrum. The MB will be transparent, not so with the Parker. Not the same plastic.

fountainpenkid
December 5th, 2016, 12:55 PM
The blog post repeatedly claims Montblanc has used the term for over a century. Has anyone found any evidence of this? As Montblanc wasn't producing pens in any sort of 'resin'-like material back then, it seems highly suspect to me.

FredRydr
December 6th, 2016, 07:28 AM
The blog post repeatedly claims Montblanc has used the term for over a century. Has anyone found any evidence of this? As Montblanc wasn't producing pens in any sort of 'resin'-like material back then, it seems highly suspect to me.
Hey...if it's on the internet, it must be true. :bolt:

Fred

dadbar
December 6th, 2016, 02:53 PM
The Montblanc resin feels identical to the resin on my UK made Parker 45. If you were blindfolded and felt the barrel of both pens, you would not be able to tell the difference.


I own a dozen or so U.K. 45s. Big fan. I love the 45. I also own a MB 146. No way in hell are they the same material.

You see the way the clutch ring on the cap cause indentations on the P45 section? Run your fingernail on the material section and barrel and do the same on the MB resin. No way these are the same plastics. The MB is harder and the Parker deforms more easily Right?

I mean I could tested but then I'd probably have to damage my pen to confirm it.

You've piqued my interest. After the holidays, I will scan my Montblanc 147 and Parker 45 with a lab spectrometer (mine does UV to NIR) to look at the surface reflectance spectrum of both pens. It's a pretty good indicator of the plastic being used.


If you want to experiment with toys. Look at both in the IR spectrum. The MB will be transparent, not so with the Parker. Not the same plastic.

I was planning to scan 350-2500nm covering UV through NIR....after Christmas when I have the time.

dadbar
December 6th, 2016, 02:55 PM
I was going to do that but my neighbor borrowed my spectrometer and never brought it back. THAT GUY!


OK joking aside I seriously do want to know if they have the same or not.

Can a spectrometer also be used to tell the composition of metal? I have some nibs and I'm very curious to know if they are unhallmarked palladium silver or just steel.

Ideally you need an XRF (Xray fluorescence) spectrometer for that. It would give elemental analysis.

amk
December 7th, 2016, 04:07 AM
'Plastic' is a pretty useless word actually. There are so many different kinds. It's like saying 'metal' - are we talking gold, silver, stainless, or a chunk of rusty old iron? HDPE is completely different from PVC... and it's funny how 'plastic' has a negative connotation but 'polycarbonate' a positive one.

I do like the Edelschwein. I'm now singing: Edelschwein, Edelschwein, every morning you greet me...

stub
December 7th, 2016, 10:14 AM
Ideally you need an XRF (Xray fluorescence) spectrometer for that. It would give elemental analysis.

Dear Santa,

I have been a really good boy ...

dadbar
December 30th, 2016, 01:38 PM
28968

I had a chance today to scan my Montblanc 147 pen for surface reflectance. The scan is a dead ringer for plain old acrylic. Nothing particularly fancy...and no sign of glass or quartz in the scan either....just fancy smooth plexiglass- even more reflective than the acrylic mirror in my library sample. I stand corrected regarding the Parker 45- that scan looks nothing like the MB...there were no particular absorption features to match to- it absorbed light across the entire spectrum from 350-2500nm (UV thru near IR).

Note that the black color of the pen absorbs light at 350-700nm, whereas the acrylic mirror is clear, hence the mismatch in the visible range. It's in the infrared where the story is "clear."

FredRydr
December 30th, 2016, 02:26 PM
Geeks CSI?

My Meisterstucks are rather old and not so shiny; their resin may be a little less precious.

Fred

mhosea
December 30th, 2016, 03:16 PM
I've long subscribed to the "dodgy translation" hypothesis. They would have been better off with "noble resin", I think, as in "noble steel" (which everybody just happens to know how to translate idiomatically to "stainless steel") or "noble gas".

AzJon
December 30th, 2016, 05:07 PM
I've long subscribed to the "dodgy translation" hypothesis. They would have been better off with "noble resin", I think, as in "noble steel" (which everybody just happens to know how to translate idiomatically to "stainless steel") or "noble gas".

That would seem the most likely situation. Someone translated it to "precious resin" decades ago and it just stuck. Though, to be fair, "Quality resin" doesn't have the same price-commanding ring to it that "precious resin" does, even if it is eye-rolling to say.

Cyril
November 29th, 2017, 03:07 PM
Sorry should have been a bit clearer, in my opinion and with my budget/willing to spend, new mont blanc pens are a bit over priced for what you get.
I think you can get a comparable product for less, but you are buying a branded product. Bit like an iPhone, there are better phones for less, but if you want an iPhone you have to pay for one.
This is all subjective obviously, buy what makes you happy.

Absolutely. For example I find almost all of the low end Chinese pens obscenely overpriced even when they sell for less than $5.00.


I have three MB and handfull of Chinese pens. All my pens I choose for using them as writers.
Yes My MB 146 is not the favourite amoung my collection. I am hoping for a nib Swap one day and get to my favourite level.