wanted to buy: Montblanc 149, EF / XXF, '60S - '70S

[jsph]

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wanted to buy: montblanc 149, extra-fine / xxf nib, late '60s / early '70s, in good working order (to be daily writer) and with original parts (solid ebonite feed, plastic piston threads, one-piece body construction)
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[ http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/classifieds/item/43014-wanted-to-buy-montblanc-149-ef-xxf-60s-70s/ ]
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more specifically:

montblanc 149 from ~1973 (late '60s / early to mid '70s, most likely 1973 - 1975) with all original parts

feed
one-piece/solid ebonite feed, not split

nib
true extra-fine or extra-extra-fine
14c ; maybe an 18c, depending on specific age, condition, tip width, etc
preferably two-tone (14c)
sexy thin long legs -- er, i mean, uh, tines, long tines -- with narrow shoulders
-- or the more triangular (french?) three-tone style you see on some 18c late '60s / early '70s nibs
soft enough for some natural line variation (i.e., not a nail), but don't need real flex / semi-flex
smooth writer and not limited to small/weird sweet spots to write properly
well-aligned tines and no other problems or past damage
if it also writes (presumably a finer line) with the section side up / nib down, then... wow.

body
one-piece barrel/section (i.e., no seam between section threads and body; likewise, no rim of matte black plastic between section and nib, from the modern nib/feed unit)
filling
plastic piston threads, not modern brass
fills // advances/retracts smoothly and easily

flow
relatively dry writer much preferred over a juicy wet writer (*)
-- but "dry" doesn't mean "skips and doesn't feed" or only feeds when writing very slowly
other mechanicals / structurals
cap fits and screws on / seals properly and tight
clip is tight and straight
no leaks
no cracks, no chips

other / surface / misc
no bite marks
no inscriptions, names, logos, bumper stickers
clear or clear-enough ink window
light micro-scratches and scuffs are of course fine and expected,
but no serious/deep/long scratches

correct box, papers, etc are _not_ necessary but would be worth a bit more, ~$15 - 25

would be shipping to alberta, canada with tracking and insurance


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hi everyone,

something unexpected (_good_ unexpected, for once) has just happened and it looks like i finally have a chance to buy the one grail pen i've been wishing for for > 15 years: a montblanc 149.

realistically, i'm only going to get one shot at this [it's taken 15 years to get to this point], and all these years of coveting and drooling and reading and sighing over nib pics and so on has left me dreaming of a very specific 149 style/configuration, what you'd see in the very late '60s to early '70s (and maybe even more specifically ~1973 - 1975 if some of the charts are to be believed) -- so, i can't really play the trial-and-error game with whatever styles and configurations are randomly available on current listings here or on ebay or wherever and just make do with whatever i find.

for another thing, i'm not buying this as a collector or museum curator. i can only let myself do this if i would actually be using it every day, taking it to work and using it at home and everything else -- otherwise i can't begin to justify it. so, first, it needs to be in perfect working order, because i'm not going to have additional funds to have the piston serviced, or the nib adjusted, or leaks sealed, or whatever -- even down to things like the cap and clip, because it'll be traveling around in my pocket; and second, it needs to work with my very unfortunately small handwriting, meaning it has to be a true extra-fine or xxf (as they did indeed create in those days; you see lots of these tapering-off-to-a-needle-point nibs, noticeably different from even a fine) with a moderate-to-dry flow. if i can't write with it, because it's too wide or too wet, then i'm screwed, i'll have to sell it. i've become too used to cheap japanese extra-fines, which, you know...

so, with that in mind, if you have something that might fit the description above, please let me know. you'll see it's a very specific list -- not demanding something that's especially rare, because you do see these pretty frequently on the list (i just haven't been able to buy one or justify one before) -- just _specific_, to not waste anybody's time.

and, to not be coy or mysterious or anything, up-front i can say over the years i've got to know pretty well the price range for these on the list (and good [if not mint] examples on ebay, from good sellers) and based on this i have somewhere in the range of $350 - $400 u.s. to play with here, maybe push it up to $425 for a really special case, say close to mint and including insured/tracked shipping (to canada [where it is effing freezing at the moment, thank you very much]), with the amount varying depending on things like whether the original box/papers might be included, the amount of use it's received, and whatever other factors.

by the way, given my search for a true extra-fine or xxf, anyone who's had (documented) professional nib work done specifically to create a smooth extra-fine or xxf -- particularly messrs minuskin or masuyama -- please let me know, because of course that would happily bring us to the high end of the price range.

again, thanks for your time in reading this at all, and please see below if the pen you have fits with the very specific image i've so tragically got stuck in my head.

jsph

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[rubendh]

There are a few on sale for between 380 and 420 usd on Fountain Pen Network ☺ good luck!

[jsph]

thanks very much. so far, none that quite fit all details, but continuing to look.

[Wrathen]

BTW you accidentally put this thread in the WTS section not the WTB/Trade section. :D Good luck on your hunt hope your successful.

Edit for question:
I dont know a ton about Montblancs. I did pick up one that by the chart is a 1991-1994 that I love the size and feel of. But what is the advantage of the single barrel construction vs the 2 part?

[jsph]

ugh... i screwed up already! apologies for posting in the wrong section.

about the single / two-piece barrel thing: might have become mostly a personal preference / visual thing by this point, but i guess i can say two things.

the first, smaller point is that, for all the other things i'm looking for, the correct body type would be a one-piece. i want very much a solid ebonite feed, a plastic piston, and most of all a slightly soft, true EF 14c (or 18c) nib from the late '60s or the '70s, roughly speaking, and the correct/original body type for that will be a one-piece. after looking at these so long (online), that extra black rim of plastic from the modern feed/nib assembly just... looks wrong, mostly just to tell me i'm looking at a wrong-period pen.

the second reason, which experts may or may not agree with, i don't know, is that i see (online, obviously) a lot of micro cracks growing off that section/barrel joint in the older two-piece pens -- especially obvious if you see demonstrator pics (which admittedly are made from a different kind of plastic), all around the barrel where the section piece screws in, a whole army of little cracks growing from that joint down the barrel. now, that could be totally fine and expected and everything, and the experts may have more to say about that, but unless all those little cracks are 100% stable in any given pen, i would rather just a pen that has no screw-in join there anyway, and there's no worry. it's not a cosmetic thing, it's more of an eventual leaking / breaking sort of thing, so they're kindof scary to look at.

see, i don't have a lot of money, is the thing -- it's taken 15 years for a situation to come up where i could let myself spend this much on a pen -- and i would hate to blow it on a (necessarily very old) pen and then find out it had another hundred, two hundred, however many dollars of repairs needed on top of that price. ... and worse: an unfixable crack in the barrel (or any serious structural problem) would mean -- let's think about this -- that monblanc would just replace _everything_, and after all of that, you end up losing everything from the pen except your original nib, put into a 2016 body. [the sounds of near-silent weeping.] same problem with the nib, money wise: i think i could find a pen more quickly if i just get any nib width and then could lump the extra cost, plus double shipping, etc (never mind months of waiting) for nib modification, as much as a minuskin or masuyama custom xf/xxf would be all dreamy and miraculous and life-altering. obviously, i would pay more for one that has a minuskin/masuyama nib, but i would hope it might be a little less expensive and less time-consuming if that work's already been done and the previous owner's ready to let go of it for someone else.

[da vinci]

I don't know if it is practical for you but a pen show might be the answer to find the Grail pen you seek, particularly if you are buying from an expert like Osman Sumer, or another reputable seller. Also Max or Tom at Penboard.de might be useful given your specific requirements.

Good hunting.

[jsph]

thanks very much. yes, i learned about pendboard.de a while ago and have been periodically going there to search; currently nothing quite like i'm hoping for, and sadly there are two beautiful examples in their historical side of things, past sale. ... and... sigh. pen shows. i used to live in boston, and boy was the new england pen show a treat -- and, in fact, exactly where i caught the bug for a 149 in the first place. ... but now i'm pretty darn far from any pen show or even a pen store of any kind (seriously, it's pretty sad), so i'm reduced to doing this entirely remotely.

... which is scary, most of all, because of what the writing experience would be with any given pen. obviously, i'm also concerned about not-so respectable people selling me a bad pen full of all sorts of expensive problems, but also i'm just concerned that i get the thing and it either doesn't write well or doesn't write anything close to how i write. this is where i used to spend hours at pen shows and also at a very special pen, uh, place in boston, just dipping and trying and so on. of course, i can always just sell a pen that doesn't work out and try again, but now i'm in canada and just the shipping and taxes/customs and delays and everything make it a big headache and you lose bunches of money just on that kind of overhead. ... which is bad for the voice that tells me to stick to this or that cheapie japanese pen and forget about the 149.

anyway, thanks very much for the comment -- and for the name: pen show or not, maybe i should look up this osman sumer character, for one thing....

take care...

[jsph]

as a minor note, i should maybe add that i would be very happy to add ~$10 - $15 to the overall price if, along with the pen, it comes with the classic "149" ink bottle (the horizontal-sitting glass one with wavy bottom, hand-script-looking "149" on the top label, etc) -- or $20 if it comes with the new "permanent blue", not that that's very likely.

[jsph]

there hasn't been too much excitement on this, so i should probably say a fine nib would be ok, too, if the price is low enough to have some funds left over to have the nib ground to an extra-fine.

[entertainment]

I always search for 149s from this era and I do not see many XF nibs. Even the ones that look narrow tend to write like an F. I have one 149 with an XF nib but it is probably from around 1980, and they seem more common in that period. My sample is not scientific, just what I have encountered. I think that the grind idea is a good one.

[jsph]

entertainment: thanks. well, i'm not sure if they just didn't make many extra-fines in this period or if it's some other weird reason that's resulted in seeing too few of them in the resale market, but certainly my searching in the last few weeks / months has shown it to be hard to find these guys. certainly would be easier to find a more modern extra-fine, that's for sure. it bothers me, though, because when you do see (e.g., in old posts or on other sites) photos of and writing samples from true extra fine nibs from back then -- late '60s / early/mid '70s -- they are not only amazing in terms of how they seem to write, they are beautiful and impressive just in terms of the structure/geometry/grind of the nib. i remember some close-up photos from minuskin of an 18c three-tone triangular french-style 149 nib with a true extra-fine nib, just out of the factory and not modified by him, and some examples of the long-tines 14c two-tone versions and... it's just amazing to see these nibs gracefully taper down to an almost zero point tip (and yet, in close-up photos, clearly be very gracefully rounded for smooth writing). sigh...