ebonite....what exactly is it?

[mookie2112]

it seems like a porous material.....is it wood? how different is it from plastic?

Thanks!

[jar]

Vulcanized Hard Rubber.

[Dreck]

Apart from videos of cats, the internet hosts a whole world of information. Avail yourself of it. https://www.google.com/#safe=active&q=what+is+ebonite

[matteob]

No it is not porous at all as it is used for eyedropper fountain pens in India especially. It has a distinctive rubbery smell like a new car tyre but I like it. It polishes up well and is light and strong.

[Jacoby190]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.


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[Jon Szanto]

And since this is turning into an educational thread (which is good), I would suggest doing some good googling on hard rubber pens, as this material - "ebonite" just being another name - plays a big part in the early history of the pens, certainly up to the mid-1920's. HR, in black, red, and rippled formations, smooth and chased, is a unique material, and does (as noted previously) require certain handling, use, and storage precautions. It is a great material to have a pen made from, and feels very nice in the hand.

[Cob]

It's worth, I suppose, pointing out that Ebonite/Vulcanite/Black Hard Rubber is not Bakelite; many people appear to think that it is.

Probably as many as those who think that a 1930s Swan SM200/60 or an Onoto from that period is BCHR - which it isn't!

Cob

[FredRydr]

And then it begs the question, what is vulcanized? Wikipedia to the rescue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcanization

Fred

[jar]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.


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Yet many celluloid pens come originally with an ebonite feed.

[Wile E Coyote]

And then it begs the question, what is vulcanized? Wikipedia to the rescue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcanization

Fred

It means: to make or become vulcan

Leonard Nimoy was vulcanized for his role in Star Trek.

[matteob]

And since this is turning into an educational thread (which is good), I would suggest doing some good googling on hard rubber pens, as this material - "ebonite" just being another name - plays a big part in the early history of the pens, certainly up to the mid-1920's. HR, in black, red, and rippled formations, smooth and chased, is a unique material, and does (as noted previously) require certain handling, use, and storage precautions. It is a great material to have a pen made from, and feels very nice in the hand.

Care to enlighten me? I own a couple of Ebonite pens but am not aware of any usage handling or storage peculiarities!

[Jacoby190]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.


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Yet many celluloid pens come originally with an ebonite feed.

True, but it has always been my understanding that it is a best practice to store these types of pens separately even as a precaution. This article was helpful for me even though it does not answer your question fully. You make a great point. I would just rather be safe than sorry.

<http://canada.pch.gc.ca/eng/1439925170961>



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[Bisquitlips]

As we are talking about ebonite, here are several personal thoughts about ebonite in comparison to plastic feeds:

Ebonite used for feeds has the excellent characteristic that it will not absorb the ink being fed to the nib. The pigments and other chemicals and elements in inks do not impact ebonite. Some plastics used for feeds are changed by some inks and their compositions. Some plastics can be softened especially by inks that are considered "bullet proof" or permanent or with high astringent values. In my younger years, I had pens with plastic feeds that were lovely writers for years and then I would try another ink and afterward they would be completely lacking. I haven't had this experience with pens with ebonite feeds.

Ebonite feeds need to be hand cut and finished while the plastic feeds are molded. Even though some of the more expensive pens (like Montblanc) are using plastic feeds in most of their lines, most of the hand crafted pens like Omas (defunct), Montegrappa and others use ebonite. The real problem that I have had with molded / plastic nibs is when they are right they are good. But many of the plastic nibs just are not good performers out of the door. Heat and cold can change them. Ebonite is stable.

Typically an ebonite feed will be tuned to the nib being place on it. Again, that is why hand crafted fountain pens are usually great performers out of the box. Not always, but in my experience they are a vast majority of the time. And also why they will maintain their excellence.

Also, plastic feeds cannot be modified. Ebonite can be sanded, cut, and routinely repaired whereas a plastic feed does not stand up to sanding and other modifications. Better to replace the plastic feed and start from scratch. Not so with the ebonite.

When possible I try to acquire pens with ebonite feeds, but plastic really doesn't put me off if I truly want a pen. The best thing is to just enjoy them, use them, and all that goes along with this great hobby.

Just a few thoughts... :)

[Cob]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.


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Yet many celluloid pens come originally with an ebonite feed.

Absolutely, and the clip screws on vintage pens are usually ebonite too - the Swan Minors had ebonite filling levers - important to remember not to put a complete barrel into the ultra-sonic cleaner!

Cob

[Cob]

And since this is turning into an educational thread (which is good), I would suggest doing some good googling on hard rubber pens, as this material - "ebonite" just being another name - plays a big part in the early history of the pens, certainly up to the mid-1920's. HR, in black, red, and rippled formations, smooth and chased, is a unique material, and does (as noted previously) require certain handling, use, and storage precautions. It is a great material to have a pen made from, and feels very nice in the hand.

Care to enlighten me? I own a couple of Ebonite pens but am not aware of any usage handling or storage peculiarities!

Keep them away from water and out of the light! My pens, Celluloid and Ebonite are stored together in a collection of glass jars and beakers (!); I have had no trouble.

Cob

[matteob]

Thanks for this. I have a few Indian eye droppers on the way ebonite feeds. Noodlers pens are good value and have hand cut ebonite feeds too. I have a Noodler's Charlie and that is a great little writer.

[penwash]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.


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I have quite a few ebonite barrel pens and none of them emit the sulphur/rubber smell until I rub them or heat them.

[Jon Szanto]

It should be noted that storing ebonite pens with celluloid pens is a bad idea as the aforementioned "distinctive rubbery smell " is due to natural gases being released and this will damage celluloid pens.

I have quite a few ebonite barrel pens and none of them emit the sulphur/rubber smell until I rub them or heat them.

I'm not totally certain of your inference, but the fact that your nose can't detect an odor does not mean that gases are not being emitted. Better safe than sorry.

[titrisol]

Ebonite was one of the 1st commercially succesful artificial polymer; and the father of the GoodYear company!
Many things were made with it, and while it polishes great it can also become brittle
It was used in the 1920s, pens, bowling balls, electrical plugs; etc
Like it was said beofre it is a very hard rubber, made by mixing sulfur in large concentration 18-45%; and it is not elastic

*** erased references to bakelite which was used extensively. Any bakelite pens?

[Hawk]

I believe the old telephones were made of Bakelite.

[mrcharlie]

Ebonite was the 1st commercially succesful artificial polymer; and the father of the GoodYear company!
Many things were made with it, and while it polishes great it can also become brittle
It was used in the black telephones from the 1920s, pens, bowling balls, electrical plugs; etc
Like it was said beofre it is a very hard rubber, made by mixing sulfur in large concentration 18-45%; and it is not elastic
This description is about half that of Bakelite (the 1st commercially successful thermo-plastic) and about half Ebonite (hard rubber, still used for bowling balls to this day).

[titrisol]

I stand corrected

I believe the old telephones were made of Bakelite.

[sharmon202]

How do I know if a pen is ebonite, celluloid?

[Cob]

Assuming one is thinking of a black pen, then simply apply a little polish with a clean light cloth; ebonite/Black har rubber will leave a brown mark on the cloth. Mottled (red) hard rubber is obvious.

Also if you simply rub the pen with a cloth so as to warm it slightly, you should be able to detect the sulphurous smell that BHR emits.

Cob

[jar]

How do I know if a pen is ebonite, celluloid?

Often only through research. Even then it can at times be difficult. Visual clues may be misleading and other clues like the smell of the pen depend on the persons experiences with different smells and their ability to distinguish different smells. If you rub most ebonite pens you should get a hint of sulfur. When you do the same to a celluloid pen there should be a hint of camphor. But often that doesn't work.

Generally celluloid pens will have a depth to the finish, as though you were looking into the pen while ebonite has no depth or transparency. But then there are pens like this one...


http://www.fototime.com/AD57F8863417085/medium800.jpg


... that was sold by one of the most experience used pen dealers out there, a person that has sold hundreds if not thousands of pens, as an ebonite pen but in reality it is celluloid.

In the end it comes down to research as is too often the case.

[Jon Szanto]

Jar brings up an interesting point: spotting ebonite.

I just received a lot of Sheaffer "Cartridge Pens", some NOS, to give to people to start on the foutain pen road. The seller was very generous and included some extra stuff. I happend to see a bag that had a couple of extra section/nib units, and when I was looking at them, I could swear that the feeds were NOT plastic, but looked for all the world like ebonite. I haven't looked at all the assembled pens (around 20 in number), but while some look obviously injection-molded plastic, there are some others that... look like they might be ebonite.

Sure enough, I find references online that 'early versions' of the pens used ebonite feeds (kind of amazing for a budget pen, but possibly explaining why they worked so well!), but now I'm left with this issue of trying to identify which ones truly are ebonite, if any. The part is so small you can do a rubbing test, etc.

Any ideas?

[mrcharlie]

The first two generations of the generic "sheaffer cartridge pen" have a different feed than the third gen [1970s and on] version of the pen. The old feeds are a boat keel type shape and the newer ones have a flat bottom very similar to any current conventional nib sheaffer feed. (Same is true with the No Nonsense pens, but they only had the old feed for a very short time since they were introduced later.)

I know the third gen feed is plastic. The older ones might be hard rubber, or a different kind of plastic, I'm not sure. I have a lot of each type. I'll try to take a good picture of the difference if no one else does RSN.

[Jon Szanto]

Thanks, Mr. Charlie. I'm going to do a thorough examination today just to get a feel for it all.

[FredRydr]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

[jar]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

Only anecdote from this source but I have never found much difference between well made feed based on material. I fear as with most everything, there is no magic answer.

[Jon Szanto]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

I'm not sure about manufacturers, Fred, but did you read the article that a fellow posted here a month or so about on feed design and materials? I thought it was quite interesting and shed a lot of light on the components. Let me know if you want a link.

[FredRydr]

Link? Yes please!

Fred

[TRPotato]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

I'm not sure about manufacturers, Fred, but did you read the article that a fellow posted here a month or so about on feed design and materials? I thought it was quite interesting and shed a lot of light on the components. Let me know if you want a link.

Do you mean this series of articles (https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/feed-supply-ink-function-foutain-pen/), by any chance?

[Jon Szanto]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

I'm not sure about manufacturers, Fred, but did you read the article that a fellow posted here a month or so about on feed design and materials? I thought it was quite interesting and shed a lot of light on the components. Let me know if you want a link.

Do you mean this series of articles (https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/feed-supply-ink-function-foutain-pen/), by any chance?

Indeed. Thanks.

[Pen Ingeneer]

I expect pen manufacturers have conducted studies that we'll never see comparing ebonite and plastic feeds. Can anyone share reliable information?

Fred

I'm not sure about manufacturers, Fred, but did you read the article that a fellow posted here a month or so about on feed design and materials? I thought it was quite interesting and shed a lot of light on the components. Let me know if you want a link.

Do you mean this series of articles (https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/feed-supply-ink-function-foutain-pen/), by any chance?

Indeed. Thanks.

I am the fellow who wrote the article about feeds made of plastic. Hope all is clear. If not, let me know and I will try to answer

[dneal]

How do I know if a pen is ebonite, celluloid?

Expose it to an open flame. If it melts, it's ebonite. If it violently bursts into flame, it's celluloid.

;)

[WmEdwards]

It's worth, I suppose, pointing out that Ebonite/Vulcanite/Black Hard Rubber is not Bakelite; many people appear to think that it is.


This is common across collecting, other than just pens. Some people INSIST on describing hard rubber Olt duck calls as "Bakelite," which drives the true "duck call afficianado" nuts. ;)

[mcorrea]

BTW, just to add to the ebonite trivia. Ebonite is also used to this day in the instrument industry. Saxophone and clarinet mouthpieces are often made of ebonite. There are also some good quality clarinets that have an ebonite bodies.

Matias

[snowbear]

Aren't some bowling balls made of ebonite?
(yes, I know it's a zombie-ish thread, but . . .)