Grail Pens

[roguez]

I am fairly new to this forum and I did a brief search to see if this topic had been covered but did not see the topic come up as a subject. If I missed it I apologize in advance. I am fairly new in the collecting world and have found that I find the searching to be one of the most gratifying part of this fountain pen collecting bug that I have caught. I really get a rush when I find a neat vintage pen in the "wild" such as estate sales and garage sales or even antique stores. But I was curious to see what pens knowledgeable people were interested in. I know there are probably two camps. One which prefers vintage pens and others who prefer the modern made pens. I found a pen recently that I knew nothing about but discovered it is was the grail pen of several collectors. Had I not shown it to some at a pen show I would not have known it's history or value or even heard the term "grail pen". I bought it because it was "cool looking" and "cheaper than dirt". So maybe you would consider putting your top five of each category? I would love to see what people are interested in. Maybe even put in a why it is a grail pen. Thanks.

[fountainpenkid]

I'm in the camp that thinks the distinction made between vintage and modern pens is overwrought and often unnecessary limiting. A good pen is a good pen, and, in my subjective view, a disproportionate amount of good pens happen to be older ones. Some, like the Parker "51", have been grandfathered into the semblance of community consensus that exists on reasonable "daily carry pens," but for the most part, great older pens meeting the preferences of the user are ignored in recommendation threads. On the subject of 'grail pens', there are many interesting and different opinions and problematizations: some hold steadfast to what truth they see in it, others think the concept is silly, and others still (and these people are most interesting) think the concept should be entirely theoretical--that a 'grail' is a pen whose enjoyment is most powerful when it remains solely in the mind, whose power would be diminished were you actually to get one. For me, the normal sense of the concept is somewhat compelling, actually.

[roguez]

I'm in the camp that thinks the distinction made between vintage and modern pens is overwrought and often unnecessary limiting. A good pen is a good pen, and, in my subjective view, a disproportionate amount of good pens happen to be older ones. Some, like the Parker "51", have been grandfathered into the semblance of community consensus that exists on reasonable "daily carry pens," but for the most part, great older pens meeting the preferences of the user are ignored in recommendation threads. On the subject of 'grail pens', there are many interesting and different opinions and problematizations: some hold steadfast to what truth they see in it, others think the concept is silly, and others still (and these people are most interesting) think the concept should be entirely theoretical--that a 'grail' is a pen whose enjoyment is most powerful when it remains solely in the mind, whose power would be diminished were you actually to get one. For me, the normal sense of the concept is somewhat compelling, actually.

A very interesting perspective. I am wondering if I may fall into that camp that the power is in the mind. I know in other things in life I have been somewhat disappointed once something I sought forever is obtained. As I mentioned I think I get the greatest feeling of satisfaction when I find something unexpected or a great bargain. So maybe my grail would be when that occurs. I do love some 51's I have though. In fact I am writing with one today:).

[WmEdwards]

A Montblanc Cervantes Writers Edition that someone gives me for free. How's that? :D

[dapprman]

As the term 'grail pen' comes from 'the holy grail' to me it must be a pen either you can not find, can not afford, or both. As soon as you are in a position to purchase it or do buy it, then by definition it is no longer a grail.

[FredRydr]

I found a pen recently that I knew nothing about but discovered it is was the grail pen of several collectors.
Did you forget to type the name of this pen?

Fred

[jar]

As the term 'grail pen' comes from 'the holy grail' to me it must be a pen either you can not find, can not afford, or both. As soon as you are in a position to purchase it or do buy it, then by definition it is no longer a grail.

That is what the English knight said but I told him we already have one.

[pajaro]

I had one that I thought I would never get. When I finally bought one, I didn't feel that way about any other pen.

[Vespagirl]

There was a thread, I believe it was on this form, where people posted their best and worst pens. Most of the pens mentioned where pens of reputable companies and often well spoken if themselves. Everyone is, of course, different, but I wonder if these acclaimed pens which fell short in the eyes of the owner don't qualify.


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[RuiFromUK]

This one? :jaw:

http://www.harrods.com/product/pen-of-the-year-fountain-pen-2016/graf-von-faber-castell/000000000005200126

[roguez]

This one? :jaw:

http://www.harrods.com/product/pen-of-the-year-fountain-pen-2016/graf-von-faber-castell/000000000005200126

Wow! Look at the case it comes in!

[roguez]

I found a pen recently that I knew nothing about but discovered it is was the grail pen of several collectors.
Did you forget to type the name of this pen?

Fred

I did. I apologize. It was a Waterman's Ideal 56 in Cardinal Red with a very nice flexible nib. It was another estate sale find that came in a grab bag of old fountain pens. I was not familiar with it at all prior to finding it.

[roguez]

A Montblanc Cervantes Writers Edition that someone gives me for free. How's that? :D

For free is the best part!

[inklord]

Vintage: Lamy 2000 first year of production, with papers and all; Lamy Unic, black with 14 k nib; Lamy Persona titanium; Lamy 27 in mint condition; Aurora "Hastil", black.
New: (can't afford these, even though they are not rare): Sailor KOP Urushi vermillion; Sailor Pro Gear KOP; Lamy "Imporium" black/gold; Franklin-Christoph p66 with custom urushi coating; Namiki Yukari Royal vermillion urushi.

[RocketRyan]

Conway Stewart Winston and a Visconti London fog. But in truth I doubt any could quench the thirst.

[FredRydr]

Vintage: Lamy 2000 first year of production, with papers and all; Lamy Unic, black with 14 k nib; Lamy Persona titanium; Lamy 27 in mint condition....
Did you see the solid 14-carat gold vintage Lamy that Christof is selling in the classifieds? It's a bargain.

Fred

[Jacoby190]

After getting a little pen drunk with my purchases in the last few months I've been trying just to enjoy the ones I have in my collection which is plenty for a while. However, my eyes are always on the glitzy ones and those that carry certain prestige. If I had to say, a pen (or two), that I would like to have are the Pelikan Maki-e spring and autumn limited editions. The retail on them is about $4500 eachhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/981339fd5ccac06f4e9184620330e599.jpg


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[VertOlive]

I really want a Sailor Black Velvet. It's a newer model, but by the time I snag one, it may be vintage....

Oh. And this Danitrio:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f261/sparrowe/densho1.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/sparrowe/media/densho1.jpg.html)

[Z-Tab]

When I was very new (I'm still relatively new) I found grail pen and GOAT discussions to be very helpful in understanding which pens were generally seen as being of exceptional quality. It helped me in getting a broad overview of what was out there and gave me some specific models to be on the lookout for.

My vintage five: Montblanc 139, Waterman 458, Waterman 7 Toledo, Waterman Patrician Turquoise, Soennecken 222 Extra Red Lizard

My modern five: Montblanc Cristobal Colon, Astoria Goliath Toledo, Montblanc Carnegie, Conway Stewart Simpole, Graf von Faber Castell Pen of the Year Amber

These are basically all limited edition or very low production pens. I think the cheapest goes for around $800, the most expensive $50,000. It's pretty unlikely that I will ever even see some of them, like the Toledo 7.

My lists are also very different today from what they would have been a year ago and have nearly zero overlap with what I wanted when I first started buying higher end fountain pens.

[Kaputnik]

I have some idle daydream pens, ones that I think would be very nice to own, but will probably never buy because I would feel ridiculous paying that much for a single pen. They aren't grail pens, because if they were, I would pay the prices that they go for. So I won't name them.

There are some that I haven't yet talked myself into, and may never do so. Before Nakaya prices went up last year, I spent some time considering one of their least expensive briarwood models. The nib, tuned by an expert, would have been the main selling point. In the end, I decided that I didn't really want it that badly. So not a grail pen.

There are other pens that are on my maybe list, but I could buy any of the modern ones right now if I wanted, and if I never find the vintage ones, no big deal. So not grails.

The one thing that I really want to find, I won't know until I find it, a vintage nib on any one of a number of pens that has that fabled wet noodle flex. I have some fairly flexy nibs, but this would be a step up from any I have now. And when I found it, I might discover that it was not really for me. So be careful what you wish for. It might just be a grail shaped beacon.

(Following video might be mildly NSFW)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUnbNPCoSw

[SIR]

I really want a Sailor Black Velvet. It's a newer model, but by the time I snag one, it may be vintage....

Perhaps the lady would consider a Sailor Pro Gear 'Mocha' (http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/hunnyhunt/item/sailor-11-8234-mocabrown-fp/) instead?

https://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_gold/hunnyhunt/picture/SAILOR/S129/11-8234-mocabrown33.jpg

[amk]

In vintage I suspect true grail pens have to combine two criteria: first rarity, and secondly something distinctive, whether that's size (Waterman 20), eccentric filling systems (Baignol tank), design, tech (Meteore Pullman with its retractable nib) whatever. Rarity means Parker 51 can't be a grail pen - unless it's a prototype, an original demonstrator, or a particularly unusual model of one of the rarer colours.

I personally don't think price makes a grail pen. There has to be some element of rarity - there has to be some kind of a hunt, some luck involved (and I don't mean winning the lottery). In fact, it might be more difficult to find that last colour Pelikano that I don't have than to find some more frequently touted 'grail' pens!

Alternatively, perhaps a custom pen could be considered a 'grail'. I might go the whole hog and combine the 'grail' theme with a proper pilgrimage to the shrine of Hakase... that would be an interesting way to spend the summer vacation!

[Jacoby190]

In vintage I suspect true grail pens have to combine two criteria: first rarity, and secondly something distinctive, whether that's size (Waterman 20), eccentric filling systems (Baignol tank), design, tech (Meteore Pullman with its retractable nib) whatever. Rarity means Parker 51 can't be a grail pen - unless it's a prototype, an original demonstrator, or a particularly unusual model of one of the rarer colours.

I personally don't think price makes a grail pen. There has to be some element of rarity - there has to be some kind of a hunt, some luck involved (and I don't mean winning the lottery). In fact, it might be more difficult to find that last colour Pelikano that I don't have than to find some more frequently touted 'grail' pens!

Alternatively, perhaps a custom pen could be considered a 'grail'. I might go the whole hog and combine the 'grail' theme with a proper pilgrimage to the shrine of Hakase... that would be an interesting way to spend the summer vacation!

But don't you think that limitation of an edition and price can put a pen out of reach, thereby making it a "Grail Pen"?


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[inklord]

Vintage: Lamy 2000 first year of production, with papers and all; Lamy Unic, black with 14 k nib; Lamy Persona titanium; Lamy 27 in mint condition....
Did you see the solid 14-carat gold vintage Lamy that Christof is selling in the classifieds? It's a bargain.

Fred
Yes, Fred, I did - beautiful! Momentarily a bit out of my affordability range, but absolutley desirable!

[Sammyo]

Sailor Autumn Under The Stars... I would sell a leg for one... but my leg wouldn't fetch enough :(
http://www.sailorpen.com/20-06/Autumn-main.jpg

[ChristyOTwisty]

My Grail Pen is MONTBLANC's Charlie Chaplin pen

http://www.sandrascloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Montblanc_Charlie_Chaplin_limited.jpg

[amk]

But don't you think that limitation of an edition and price can put a pen out of reach, thereby making it a "Grail Pen"?


Only if it makes it really difficult. For instance, if it's a pen that came out ten years ago in a limited edition and very rarely comes up for sale, AND you want it with a BBB nib, AND you have to sell two pens or save up for months to get it, yet it's a grail. If it's a Pelikan LE where all you have to do is get your order in to the retailer PDQ, and you've got the funds - no, it's not a grail.

[Jacoby190]

But don't you think that limitation of an edition and price can put a pen out of reach, thereby making it a "Grail Pen"?


Only if it makes it really difficult. For instance, if it's a pen that came out ten years ago in a limited edition and very rarely comes up for sale, AND you want it with a BBB nib, AND you have to sell two pens or save up for months to get it, yet it's a grail. If it's a Pelikan LE where all you have to do is get your order in to the retailer PDQ, and you've got the funds - no, it's not a grail.

I've been busy and forgot this comment came back. Also, I thought up more about what you said in terms of Grail Pens. I would definitely stand by your assessment of it more now. I guess mine is more a pen, (or set) that I would really, really want if I have the funds, but far more mainstream than other pans I have seen or heard about others wanting. Which pen(s)would you call your Grail Pen(s)?


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[notsim]

here is my submission, with so few of them around and with the current price on ebay its certainly unobtainable for most

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/12345890_788305204628729_120504505_n.jpg

[RocketRyan]

here is my submission, with so few of them around and with the current price on ebay its certainly unobtainable for most

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/12345890_788305204628729_120504505_n.jpg

Good aspirations.

[carlos.q]

My grail pen is this one:

31980

(pen and picture courtesy of Christof)

[RocketRyan]

This is a terrible thread! Making me look at things I really can't afford or even find for sale. :'(

[penwash]

https://www.airlineintl.com/files/87/products_main8788.jpg

As long as we're dreaming together... LOL!

[Empty_of_Clouds]

For me the question of money does not a grail make.

My grail pen is one made to fit my hand, crafted in Ghost Koi alumilite, and fitted with a medium cursive italic nib.

Of these parts I can only obtain the nib.


In order to satisfy this grail quest both seeker and creator must overcome the prejudices that so beset our modern world and sow discord among us all.

Thus far this has proved to be an impossible task, and may well remain so.

[Medieval]

Mine is a Visconti London fog. Beautiful!

[amk]

Mmmm, my grail pen is a Hakase flat top in buffalo horn. But what makes it a real grail is... having to go to Japan to order it. I've promised myself the trip. Not in the short term perhaps!

(Yes, I know I don't *have* to go to Japan to order it. But I want to go to Japan, and the Hakase would be something very special for me. Quite a few other pen shops to visit too!)