First year Parker 51

[Hawk]

I know in 75+ years anything can happen to a pen. I have read the usual 51 sources and have not found an answer. Did some of the first year pens have a later clip instead of a first year clip? I know the jewels went from aluminum to plastic during 1941 and the filler also changed from the speedline. Did they change the manufacturing of the clip near the end of the run? I have seen some mid 40's pens with first year clips.

[jar]

The clip is one of those "Very likely probably sure maybe" features. First, clips got bent and some replaced. Second, Waste not Want not. Parker used what was in stock.

[Hawk]

jar,
Your answer is what I expected; thanks for the reply. I was hoping someone out there had more concrete knowledge of these pens i.e. old literature etc. In the car world, there are people who want to restore the car to as new condition; not over restored. For example, if cars from a certain period had paint jobs from the factory that were poor (drips, runs and sags), some people would have a fit with a perfect paint job; over restored. I guess I would like to bring the pen back to the 'original' condition if possible. Maybe I'm too pickey.

[pajaro]

Most true collectors are particular about condition and consistency. It just depends upon how serious you are.

[Jon Szanto]

jar,
Your answer is what I expected; thanks for the reply. I was hoping someone out there had more concrete knowledge of these pens i.e. old literature etc. In the car world, there are people who want to restore the car to as new condition; not over restored. For example, if cars from a certain period had paint jobs from the factory that were poor (drips, runs and sags), some people would have a fit with a perfect paint job; over restored. I guess I would like to bring the pen back to the 'original' condition if possible. Maybe I'm too pickey.

And yet Jar was spot on: even a pen without a 1st year clip could easily be considered original condition, since pens left the factory with other clips during that time. Parker is a little better than Sheaffer (I believe) in these matters, but the fact is that pen models came and went, and certainly the catalogues that would first feature them, and the rollouts to dealers and vendors took time, and all the while the factories had parts that fit various models and... yeah, there are pens with differing parts that, indeed, came that way from the factory.

You can only obsess so far with some of this, because it wasn't always exactly one way.

[Hawk]

Thanks, pajaro and Jon for the reality check. I guess I need to look at myself to see how serious and obsessed I want to be.

[pajaro]

As Jon says, there are anomalies out there. I have a black aero demi set, no date code, and an odd pencil with twist action, gold filled clips, gray jewels. These anomalies probably have no effect on value, but the vac pens as a whole and the first year pens in particular are less common than aeros. I think anomalies on first year pens might affect value or desirability. If you have enough money, you can be very particular. The vac 51s don't interest me much to have, but I think the pens other people have are interesting.

[Farmboy]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.

[Hawk]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.
The first year clip is unique according to what I have read. i.e. larger blue diamond, the feathers are slightly different and a different manufacturing process resulting in 'Parker' in reverse on the back side of the clip. Maybe a different base material, I don't know.

[Farmboy]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.
The first year clip is unique according to what I have read. i.e. larger blue diamond, the feathers are slightly different and a different manufacturing process resulting in 'Parker' in reverse on the back side of the clip. Maybe a different base material, I don't know.
I am working on the Syndicate to finish editing an article on what makes a first year 51. It shouldn't be long but it will be.

[jar]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.
The first year clip is unique according to what I have read. i.e. larger blue diamond, the feathers are slightly different and a different manufacturing process resulting in 'Parker' in reverse on the back side of the clip. Maybe a different base material, I don't know.
I am working on the Syndicate to finish editing an article on what makes a first year 51. It shouldn't be long but it will be.

The best things I have found so far are:

Aluminum top and bottom jewels.
1 with 3 dots date code
aluminum filler
Sterling silver cap with blue dot clip
the fact that Dad bought it for Mom in 1941 as an engagement present.


http://www.fototime.com/88BDC37701598D8/large.jpg

There are other indicators but they place the date later than 1941 such as teething marks in the cap claimed to be from me but since I was the first born and thus perfect they were more likely from my little brother who is an inferior post war product.

[Hawk]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.
The first year clip is unique according to what I have read. i.e. larger blue diamond, the feathers are slightly different and a different manufacturing process resulting in 'Parker' in reverse on the back side of the clip. Maybe a different base material, I don't know.
I am working on the Syndicate to finish editing an article on what makes a first year 51. It shouldn't be long but it will be.

The best things I have found so far are:

Aluminum top and bottom jewels.
1 with 3 dots date code
aluminum filler
Sterling silver cap with blue dot clip
the fact that Dad bought it for Mom in 1941 as an engagement present.


http://www.fototime.com/88BDC37701598D8/large.jpg

There are other indicators but they place the date later than 1941 such as teething marks in the cap claimed to be from me but since I was the first born and thus perfect they were more likely from my little brother who is an inferior post war product.

Very nice, jar. I'm an inferior post war product and I never did anything like that. You know what happens to the minds of old people. I forgot.

[Hawk]

I have not found a reliable way to date 51 clips.
The first year clip is unique according to what I have read. i.e. larger blue diamond, the feathers are slightly different and a different manufacturing process resulting in 'Parker' in reverse on the back side of the clip. Maybe a different base material, I don't know.
I am working on the Syndicate to finish editing an article on what makes a first year 51. It shouldn't be long but it will be.

I can't wait to read the article.

[Farmboy]

Since it has been mentioned both here and elsewhere I shall pose a question; How many feathers are depicted in a Parker 51 clip, or any Parker clip for that matter?

[Hawk]

It varies:
First year - 21
Blue diamond - 21
Vac - 13
Aero - 15

[Farmboy]

It varies:
First year - 21
Blue diamond - 21
Vac - 13
Aero - 15
Is that your final answer? I ask a trick question...

[Hawk]

I'll bite.

[pajaro]

26 in the 61. I'll byte also. Former IT manager.

[Farmboy]

one

[Hawk]

You win.

[Hawk]

Farmboy, are the blue diamond clips one feather or two half feathers?
BTW, in Shepherds book he states: "In 1950 the clip was shortened and the number of feathers reduced."
According to bird people you are correct. I am a 'pen people' so I am correct also.

[Farmboy]

Farmboy, are the blue diamond clips one feather or two half feathers?
BTW, in Shepherds book he states: "In 1950 the clip was shortened and the number of feathers reduced."
According to bird people you are correct. I am a 'pen people' so I am correct also.

The Shepard book has some issues. Bird people will say we are counting vanes and the clip represents one feather with the spine making the arrow.

I think it is dangerous to count the 'feathers' or 'vanes' and relegate them to a date.

To answer the original question of what makes a 1st year (or zero year) 51, there is no exact answer. You need to look at the whole pen and take into account the history of said pen and remember that Parker was in the business of selling pens just as materials shortages were hitting so anything that worked got sold.

[grainweevil]

According to bird people you are correct. I am a 'pen people' so I am correct also.

With a name like Hawk, I would have put good money on you being about as bird a person as could be!


Bird people will say we are counting vanes

This bird person thinks you may actually be counting barbs.

[Chrissy]

With a name like Hawk, I would have put good money on you being about as bird a person as could be!


Bird people will say we are counting vanes

This bird person thinks you may actually be counting barbs.

This bird person (although not strictly a twitcher) agrees with grainweevil. :)

[Farmboy]

Barbs it is. But there is still the pesky question around what makes a first year. I do like story behind the chew toy 51 and it gives a confirmed data point of an original pen. Filler data would be nice and nib should be bare but both could have been replaced and it is still proper chew toy.