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TSherbs
April 11th, 2017, 06:57 PM
In view of an apparent lack of moderation by admin, and in view of some requests on other threads that we have a clearer set of rules, if only by generally accepted consensus, and in view of the fact that I have been critical of the nature and tone of angry personal posts at fpgeeks, I thought that I would be the change in the (fpgeek) world that I have been hoping for.

With these ideas in mind I offer the following and will step aside and let others add, subtract, etc. See what happens.


Posting guidelines:

1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.


I am purposely keeping the list short, but you can do with it what you want. This is just a conversation; hopefully, a civil one.

fountainpagan
April 12th, 2017, 02:58 AM
May I also suggest?:

Don't apply to a pif if you have no intention of responding to the person who offers it, in case you win. Or, if you want to withdraw from it, have the courtesy of saying it.

Thank you.

FredRydr
April 12th, 2017, 05:04 AM
6) The Classified is not a discussion forum: Please do not crap in the seller's thread with negative comments such as "your price is too high," "your item is in bad condition," etc.*

Fred



*Courtesy of the advrider.com forum's Flea Market (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/flea-market-rules-what-goes-where-in-the-flea-market.1077900/) rules.

jar
April 12th, 2017, 06:19 AM
Momma reads what you write.

Marsilius
April 12th, 2017, 08:46 AM
“That which is hateful to you, do not unto another: This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary — go study.”
What Rabbi Hillel said to someone who told him he would convert to Judaism if Hillel could teach him Judaism while he was standing on one foot. I think someone said that in another religion or two, too. ;)

Woody
April 13th, 2017, 06:58 PM
Can't pin it, but we can bump it.

Fermata
April 14th, 2017, 03:59 AM
I am in favour of all that has said so far, could not agree more.

But given the principle that there is no moderation/admin what do you do about the people who do not follow the rules.

Do you want the Land of Smiles that exists at FPN or freedom of expression even if that breaks the most reasonable of rules.

jar
April 14th, 2017, 06:03 AM
I am in favour of all that has said so far, could not agree more.

But given the principle that there is no moderation/admin what do you do about the people who do not follow the rules.

Do you want the Land of Smiles that exists at FPN or freedom of expression even if that breaks the most reasonable of rules.

You present a false dichotomy. It is not a limited set.

Fermata
April 14th, 2017, 06:20 AM
I am in favour of all that has said so far, could not agree more.

But given the principle that there is no moderation/admin what do you do about the people who do not follow the rules.

Do you want the Land of Smiles that exists at FPN or freedom of expression even if that breaks the most reasonable of rules.

You present a false dichotomy. It is not a limited set.

Being a brain dead dick I had to look up false dichotomy and got the answer 'not jointly exhaustive'. Very little the wiser.

If you have rules which you would like people to follow, and they do not, are you suggesting that this is therefore acceptable or that there does not need to be a procedure for requiring posters to abide by a given set of rules. I am not backing one direction or another here, I basically dont understand your reference to false dichotomy.

jar
April 14th, 2017, 06:40 AM
I am in favour of all that has said so far, could not agree more.

But given the principle that there is no moderation/admin what do you do about the people who do not follow the rules.

Do you want the Land of Smiles that exists at FPN or freedom of expression even if that breaks the most reasonable of rules.

You present a false dichotomy. It is not a limited set.

Being a brain dead dick I had to look up false dichotomy and got the answer 'not jointly exhaustive'. Very little the wiser.

If you have rules which you would like people to follow, and they do not, are you suggesting that this is therefore acceptable or that there does not need to be a procedure for requiring posters to abide by a given set of rules. I am not backing one direction or another here, I basically dont understand your reference to false dichotomy.

There can be a whole range of responses to most any action and not just the two choices you presented. Some rules can be enforced individually (simply ignoring anything posted by a given individual) or peer pressure such as publicly humiliating an individual or as I said, a whole range of behaviors. Rules are nice but so are reasonable exceptions to those rules.

Fermata
April 14th, 2017, 06:57 AM
Ok, thank you.

Being more labrador than human I live in a world where if you screw up you get your arse kicked, and thats all there is to it. If you are told that X is going to happen if you break the rules then you know where you are, introducing options and variables (such as humiliation, ridicule or shame) is outside my terms of reference and may not work for the dipstick trolls that FPG may attract from time to time, they may just love the attention.

Appreciate the explanation though.

I will butt out.

Marsilius
April 14th, 2017, 07:52 AM
Pardon the levity, but my favorite example of a false dichotomy is the phrase, "There are three kinds of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't."

mulrich
April 14th, 2017, 07:53 AM
Has anyone recently tried rousing the forum owners? I wasn't around when things broke down but it seems like it's been a few years; maybe they're ready to reconnect.

Jon Szanto
April 14th, 2017, 11:01 AM
Has anyone recently tried rousing the forum owners? I wasn't around when things broke down but it seems like it's been a few years; maybe they're ready to reconnect.

Yes, on numerous occasions, sometimes with a bit of urgency. There has never been an indication of any interest whatsoever. From what anyone can detect, he pays the hosting bills and has otherwise moved on with his life. If there is any remaining involvement, it is in the background and completely opaque to the membership, and we have seen no signs of life. One of the oddest online situations I've come across.

mulrich
April 14th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Yes, on numerous occasions, sometimes with a bit of urgency. There has never been an indication of any interest whatsoever. From what anyone can detect, he pays the hosting bills and has otherwise moved on with his life. If there is any remaining involvement, it is in the background and completely opaque to the membership, and we have seen no signs of life. One of the oddest online situations I've come across.

That is really strange. I can appreciate moving on to other endeavors but it's bizarre that he keeps paying the bills with no other involvement. Maybe the hosting bills are on Autopay and he doesn't realize he's still paying.

Jon Szanto
April 14th, 2017, 01:42 PM
That is really strange. I can appreciate moving on to other endeavors but it's bizarre that he keeps paying the bills with no other involvement. Maybe the hosting bills are on Autopay and he doesn't realize he's still paying.

He's a smart man who is fairly well-known in the pen world, and one has to believe this is how he rolls. I've never quite understood it, myself, but...

mhosea
April 14th, 2017, 03:37 PM
If there is any remaining involvement, it is in the background

A troll got banished recently, if you recall. I certainly appreciate that when it happens. That's all I've got, though.

Jon Szanto
April 14th, 2017, 05:21 PM
If there is any remaining involvement, it is in the background

A troll got banished recently, if you recall. I certainly appreciate that when it happens. That's all I've got, though.

Yes, Mike, that is true. I think there have been a few items taken care of, so he *does* somewhat keep tabs. I just wish it was an active and public involvement, so we all didn't feel like we were swimming in circles and confusion. Ah well...

Thanks (and I had another similar mention to me, as well).

KrazyIvan
April 14th, 2017, 09:19 PM
It was said long ago that the owner runs his own internet hosting company, so, it stands to reason this forum is probably located on one of his own servers. I've had snail mail contact with him within the last couple of months but the subject has not come up. I was not active on this forum when everything went south so I have no knowledge of what happened other than Dan was removed from all administrative duties.

Back on subject, having these rules would be nice and I agree with them but they are moot if they cannot be enforced. I've thought about volunteering to help with duties as I have run and configured a few forums (video game based). It's been a while and I would have to brush up on things. It just seems self serving to me and I've not brought it up for that reason.

FredRydr
April 15th, 2017, 05:08 AM
All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with swift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

Fred

penwash
April 15th, 2017, 07:26 AM
All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with shift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

Fred

I agree, Fred.
Personally, I welcome the perspective of a self-monitored small-ish community such as this one because I think we have a good combination of active members who don't always agree with one another <-- that would have been booooring, but are civil and reason-able enough that we do more than just tolerate each other.

Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us :)

jar
April 15th, 2017, 07:38 AM
All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with shift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

Fred

I agree, Fred.
Personally, I welcome the perspective of a self-monitored small-ish community such as this one because I think we have a good combination of active members who don't always agree with one another <-- that would have been booooring, but are civil and reason-able enough that we do more than just tolerate each other.

Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us :)

We’re disturbed, we’re disturbed,
We’re the most disturbed,
Like we’re psychologically disturbed.

Dreck
April 15th, 2017, 07:52 AM
(--snip--)

Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us :)

Ha ha! I was thinking about that the other day as I finished up mandatory coursework on IRB approval for conducting social research with human subjects. If this is some sort of grand qualitative study, I'm certainly glad that I'm not the one transcribing and coding the data!

grainweevil
April 15th, 2017, 08:16 AM
Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us :)

Yeah, not so funny really. Some years back I was a member of a woodworking forum the owner of which, unbeknownst to us, was doing exactly that. He simply pulled the plug once he'd finished with us as lab rats, not even allowing anyone else to step in to keep it running. A pretty lousy experience all round, to be honest.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 08:17 AM
Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

Posting guidelines:

1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 08:20 AM
I did not start this thread with any interest in "enforcement", punishment, etc. I saw disagreement on even what the rules ought to be, so I thought that I would begin a thread to see if there is any consensus about a code of conduct here.

Dreck
April 15th, 2017, 08:30 AM
Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

Posting guidelines:

1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.

Would you care to expand on #4, please? I'd like to see your explanation with examples of what you think this should(n't) look like. What does it add that isn't covered by any of the other suggestions?

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 08:51 AM
Example of #4: any one of the many generalized aspersions toward FPN.

I also occasionally read generalized aspersions here toward the Chinese manufacturers.

But really I added it because it is a virtue broader than this forum, one that I struggle with too.

jar
April 15th, 2017, 09:02 AM
Example of #4: any one of the many generalized aspersions toward FPN.

I also occasionally read generalized aspersions here toward the Chinese manufacturers.

But really I added it because it is a virtue broader than this forum, one that I struggle with too.

But it's still okay to point out that lite beer is of Satan and a perversion of all that is good in the world. And that all of the definitions of what is a vintage pen other than my definition are just plain wrong.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 09:03 AM
All things considered, this forum has done quite well without moderation. Peer pressure just takes longer to bring about change in behavior. I've also warmed to and gained respect towards every fellow member (except one) whose conduct I've found offensive at one time or another. Had a moderator stepped in with swift reaction, those occasional miscreants might have been lost to me. In some respects, this lack of moderation is an experiment in patience, toleration and acceptance.

Fred

True, Fred, but this environment has also chased some thoughtful and kind people away simply because of the rude aggressiveness. Some posters have left in fear, even. Tolerating toxicity can also be a form of self-poisoning. I left Reddit because I just couldn't tolerate the level of toxicity. Here I use the ignore functionality. But I appreciate your position and words.

Fermata
April 15th, 2017, 09:22 AM
The difficulty is that without an enforceable regime, rules are seldom 100% effective. There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty.

However, I do commend your guidelines as a template for a forum society but question whether the threat of public humiliation as a deterrant, as suggested earlier, is acceptable at Law.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 09:37 AM
The difficulty is that without an enforceable regime, rules are seldom 100% effective. There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty....

But what do you think of the list of, now, eight guidelines? Agree, disagree, want to delete one, want to add something (other than punishment)?

mhosea
April 15th, 2017, 10:06 AM
There will always be someone who baits others because they can do so without a penalty.

Baiting is a good point. It takes various forms, e.g. blithely tossing out a controversial statement as if it were accepted fact, referring to a past disagreement with an undiplomatic synopsis, suggesting that ones own opinions are exclusively rational (or ethical or moral or enlightened or whatever). Things of this nature may appear to be civil on the surface, but they incite. They ultimately disturb the peace. Now that I think about it, baiting is probably what bothers me most. But I'm not really into making rules for others to follow. When I read a list of rules like the one TSherbs has posted, I treat it as an introspective exercise. Do I follow these rules? If not, why not? Should I?

FredRydr
April 15th, 2017, 10:14 AM
Baiting is a good point. It takes various forms, e.g. blithely tossing out a controversial statement as if it were accepted fact, referring to a past disagreement with an undiplomatic synopsis, suggesting that ones own opinions are exclusively rational (or ethical or moral or enlightened or whatever). Things of this nature may appear to be civil on the surface, but they incite. They ultimately disturb the peace.

Yep, you've identified my one exception.

Fred

Wade
April 15th, 2017, 11:14 AM
While I'm generally of the opinion that less is more when it comes to forum moderation, what we have here is a near complete lack of forum management of any sort, which is not a good thing (see other threads in this group on difficulties I and others are having in re: two-factor authentication).

Setting up guidelines by committee is a completely fruitless task, as ultimately there still needs to be that one voice that says 'ok, here is the consensus or as close as we're going to get' and pin it up.

Without that, there will always be dissent, as with any large group of people, we bring our own sensibilities and experiences to the table which don't always mesh with what others bring. Common sense is rather uncommon after all, and what I may consider to be common courtesy others may not.

With absent management, I firmly believe the only appropriate action is the aforementioned peer pressure.

Using the original post in the For Sale forum as an example, it seemed pretty clear that a majority feel it's impolite to crap on someone's sale post (as do I), but there were also well-reasoned posts from those who don't agree. Can't fault the reasoning, I don't agree with it but I understand where they're coming from.

Without any sort of moderating force, we can try to feign democracy but what we really have is libertarianism, ie. you do you, I do me. If enough people disagree with how you do you, then you either change how you do you, or where you do you... unless you're a troll who doesn't care, then back to square one we go... hey, Moderator! Moderator? Uhh...

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 12:13 PM
Wade, do you have any objections to the specifics in the eight guidelines listed above?

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 12:17 PM
. When I read a list of rules like the one TSherbs has posted, I treat it as an introspective exercise. Do I follow these rules? If not, why not? Should I?

Fair enough. I am interested in your thoughts on it.

Sailor Kenshin
April 15th, 2017, 12:47 PM
I want to be in charge of punishment! ;)

Wade
April 15th, 2017, 12:52 PM
Wade, do you have any objections to the specifics in the eight guidelines listed above?

None at all, I'm in full alignment with you there, my earlier thoughts on creating rules absent management to set in place and enforce notwithstanding.

Basically, we're looking at status quo, as long as these guidelines are no more than informal consensus amongst us inmates.

We'll continue policing ourselves and voice our displeasure to those whose actions indicate that their sensibilities do not mesh with these guidelines, in hopes they will either self-adjust our self-relocate.

Sorry, I think I'm coming across as more cynical than I'm likely intending. I've been around the block my share of times on various internet forums, seems we have a fairly tenuous balance of self-moderation, but it largely seems to work, and as this is one of my favourite places to visit, I may be getting a bit antsy about us messing it up despite good intentions.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Cool, thanks

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 01:01 PM
By the way, I am in no way trying to suggest that I am any kind of leader or moderator here. I just wanted to widen a conversation that was closed on another thread. In fact, I post more often at FPN. But I thought that I would try to help out a bit.

penwash
April 15th, 2017, 01:39 PM
True, Fred, but this environment has also chased some thoughtful and kind people away simply because of the rude aggressiveness. Some posters have left in fear, even. Tolerating toxicity can also be a form of self-poisoning. I left Reddit because I just couldn't tolerate the level of toxicity. Here I use the ignore functionality. But I appreciate your position and words.

TSherbs... are you... casting aspersions towards Reddit...in violation to your own rule #4... ?? :)

(just in case anyone miss the smiley at the end, please take the above as a light-hearted comment)

Joking aside, for the most part I feel the fountain pen community on Reddit is more tolerant and accomodating than what was reflected in a few threads here on FPGeeks. For example, the denizens of /r/fountainpens are a lot more ready to admit mistakes, apologize for it, commensurate with others who just got their pens stolen, etc.

While the FPGeeks (and FPN) are more "traditional" in that sentences like "Where did I say that" or "Please read again what I wrote" are more frequently found.

Now, the level of juvenile jokes are quite painful (at least for me) on Reddit. But that's because I'm older now and no longer find raunchiness cool anymore. :)

mhosea
April 15th, 2017, 02:58 PM
Fair enough. I am interested in your thoughts on it.

Happy to oblige.



1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.

1) I personally strive for this, but I don't require or even expect it of others. What I expect would have more to do with dignity than kindness.
2) We will fail miserably and constantly at this, but am I over-generalizing? :) I think what you're probably going for here are broad-brushed claims about entire brands or lines, Noodler's Ink, for example. But some qualifier or other is missing. I think we can talk about the physics of having, say, a cracked section without having had a cracked section.
3) Yes. The forum serves best to talk with one another, not about one another, and certainly not to harass one another.
4) This is another goal. I agree with it in a nebulous way, but I think it will be more the rule than the exception that when person A believes that person B is casting aspersions, person B believes they are stating a simple fact. I think it is better to challenge the so-called fact than to remind the person of a guideline that they will probably think does not apply. So I'm skeptical not of the sentiment here, rather of how useful and applicable such a guideline would be.
5) Yes.
6) Yes.
7) Yes (but I have no experience with PIFs, so I would defer on this, anyway).
8) Yes!

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 03:54 PM
Thanks, Mike, for the thoughtful reply.

TSherbs
April 15th, 2017, 04:14 PM
Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

Posting guidelines:

1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.


In general I agree with the sentiment expressed here. Unfortunately there are always people (there's a few on this forum) who will use "free expression" as carte blanche to behave in a manner that they would not tolerate in others. You can set a personal example of decent behaviour, and perhaps hope that other people will see it as a thing worth cultivating. Beyond that, and barring the imposing of forum rules, there will always be people who feel the rules don't apply to them or simply do not care.

As for the classifieds... there is a great deal of un-enlightened self-interest there. I've always been hugely entertained by the "back stories" trotted out by serial sellers about why they are selling pens. Prices are all over the shop/ I note there is currently a sale up for a pen at a price that is actually above the new price. While it is perhaps down to the individual to exercise due diligence when looking at potential purchases, we cannot decry pointing this out here when we are more than happy to do the same for sales in other places.

Thanks, EOC.

Yes, there will be those who offend and insult. Fermata, above, suggested that without enforcement we will not get 100% compliance. Of course, no schema ever engenders 100% compliance, and there will be those who hurt others.

But perhaps if we more openly and consciously agree on a set of standards, we may improve the tone around here. Even this thread has been better.

On the sales threads, I understand your point and said as much in that other thread. I see no reason why you shouldn't pm the seller about your observations on the price listing, or any potential buyer. But I would only do so if the discrepancy is significant (say, 10% or more higher). If it seems like a scam to you, then by all means announce it to the world in order to maintain a general sense of honesty and trust in the marketplace here (IMO). I would always (I have done this twice) pm the seller first to see what response I got (both times the seller reduced the price shortly after).

carlc
April 15th, 2017, 05:20 PM
(--snip--)

Or -- since I don't know anything about him -- maybe the owner of this forum just want to conduct a social experiment with us :)

Ha ha! I was thinking about that the other day as I finished up mandatory coursework on IRB approval for conducting social research with human subjects. If this is some sort of grand qualitative study, I'm certainly glad that I'm not the one transcribing and coding the data!

Yay a qualitative research joke! (I got it anyway)



Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

mhosea
April 16th, 2017, 12:53 PM
Prices are all over the shop/ I note there is currently a sale up for a pen at a price that is actually above the new price. While it is perhaps down to the individual to exercise due diligence when looking at potential purchases, we cannot decry pointing this out here when we are more than happy to do the same for sales in other places.

If we have a thread here commenting on a for-sale situation elsewhere, we are, ipso facto, not discussing it in the actual for-sale thread. Consequently, to be fair and consistent in that, we cannot post directly to the for-sale thread. Rather, we must start a discussion thread that is separate. It would not be in the for-sale forum, let alone in the for-sale thread.

My interpretation of this rule may be looser than intended. I interpret "interference" as anything having a potentially negative effect on the seller's likelihood of making a timely sale at their asking price. I've only had one or two instances in years where somebody posted something they should have PM'd to me, but I've also seen (in somebody else's thread) a newbie stroll in and start trying to full-on negotiate out in the open, complete with talking down the item, you know, the old "That pen is crap. I give you $5 for it" bit.

RocketRyan
April 17th, 2017, 01:17 AM
Bump

TSherbs
April 19th, 2017, 03:51 PM
Updated suggested rules of conduct, using the suggestions from above:

Posting guidelines:

1) Conduct oneself through kindness.
2) Limit generalizations to collections of facts and experiences that you have specifically witnessed with pens, inks, etc.
3) Focus on the pen, ink, paper (etc) item or topic, not the person making the post that you are responding to.
4) Cast no aspersions toward any living things or groups or categories of living things.
5) Help other members with information and experiences; reserve judgments.
6) Treat others as you wish to be treated.
7) Enter a PIF only after committing to be available and responsive should you win.
8) Refrain from public interference on sales threads unless and only when a deception is occurring. Otherwise, use private messaging to communicate with seller/buyer.

This thread has grown quiet, with no more suggestions to this list (see above). Beyond some clarifying questions, there was no disagreement on the tenor and scope of these. Thank you for your interest and comments.

KKay
April 19th, 2017, 07:34 PM
I am just now reading this. I kind of like things the way they are around here. Now there is a troll who comes in now and then, I'd like to see him shown the door. Other than that I'm a happy camper. All I know is I don't want the owner of the site to get ticked, and just shut it down. I'm happy he is kind enough to pay the bills. Maybe he feels he has done his part right there, and doesn't want any drama. I think overall the atmosphere in here is very kind, helpful, and a breath of fresh air. I wasn't here during whatever disturbance happened at this place. I think I may know who the site owner is, but I don't personally know him. I like every pen forum I've been on. I don't have a problem with any of them. I also like things here as they are. It would be nice to have more ongoing threads, that would be the only thing I can think of that I'd personally like to see. :)

Chrissy
April 20th, 2017, 01:32 AM
I'm a happy camper too, and so far I've avoided commenting on this thread because I see no point in potentially upsetting the administrator. No-one but him has any authority to suggest what rules should apply, and nor should we try. That's for the administrator to decide, and it's his decision alone. If he's happy with it the way it is, then that's fine by me. :)

For suggestions, you could do worse than look at the Rules and Guidelines on FPN. They have been, for the most part, seen to be working, and they don't have any particular "laid down in stone" specifics to particular forums.

It should be taken as read that we are all adults who should know how to conduct ourselves fairly and politely at all times, and that's what we should concentrate on.

In my humble opinion we could do worse that adopt this suggestion from FPN:
"In short: take part, post in a friendly manner, offer advice as and when you can, debate when you must, but please – have fun!" :)

Fermata
April 20th, 2017, 04:46 AM
I spent much of last year in Switzerland and it was very nice to see how politeness of every driver, a great deal of respect was shown.

I later found out that the licensing authority publishes names and address of the owners of every Swiss registered car. Give someone abuse whilst driving and you might expect a knock on your door.

We have all seen abuse and intimidation handed out by FPG membership and has been public humiliation has been referred to as an acceptable practice earlier in this thread.

Without active moderation there will be no change in practices so new rules are not going to happen, particularly if there is no concessus or will to change.

Lets all be nice and play well together.

penwash
April 20th, 2017, 10:17 AM
We have all seen abuse and intimidation handed out by FPG membership and has been public humiliation has been referred to as an acceptable practice earlier in this thread.


I'm scratching my head on this one (bolded statement above).
Help us understand where has this happened exactly?

Marsilius
April 20th, 2017, 11:54 AM
I'll just pipe in to say that I am grateful for the presence of this site/forum. Rule number 6 seems to cover a lot of territory in any setting. Grumpy conversations occur sometimes, but they seem to run the course of normal family arguments, meaning they eventually subside or flair up again when someone is reminded of them. I work on the premise that people are trying their best to be positive and helpful, and breathe twice whenever something I read seems inflammatory. A four-part premise I follow in academia is: 1. Misunderstandings are easy. 2. Understanding may not solve a disagreement. 3. Kindness and respect can help bridge gaps, both perceived and real. 4. When sometimes nothing helps, keep low and keep moving.

R.A. Stewart
April 20th, 2017, 04:02 PM
I have also not seen bad behavior over here. A few cases where a couple of members' disagreement got more heated and personal than what I'd go in for, but nothing I thought was really toxic. I'm sure that is partly because of my limited participation and the fact that I have not been a member as long as some. But, you know, there are sites where you can't spend an hour without wishing for body armor.

If we've been left to govern ourselves, my impression is that we've been doing a good job on the whole.

mhosea
April 20th, 2017, 08:11 PM
We have all seen abuse and intimidation handed out by FPG membership and has been public humiliation has been referred to as an acceptable practice earlier in this thread.


I'm scratching my head on this one (bolded statement above).
Help us understand where has this happened exactly?

I think this is mainly just an overreaction to a choice of words. Any well-functioning society has some sort of structure to it and a consensus about what sorts of behaviors are acceptable and what sorts are not. People vary in their propensity to "act out", and there's always somebody to test the limits or not bother to be their own editor, and every well-functioning society has corrective mechanisms to respond to it, to discourage it. One of the things we enjoy in modern civilization is a police force, which is something we notably lack an analog for here on the forum, but police are really there for more egregious cases, anyway. Good people are taught to "color between the lines" because when they don't, they experience the disapproval of the society in some way or other. I believe what Jar was referring to was essentially expressing disapproval in a collective way that sends the clear message "This is not acceptable behavior." A good person thus chastised will feel "shame".

One reason I'm not really that supportive of making a set of rules explicit is that they'll only ever be an imperfect representation of the real rules, the ones that emerge from our collective sensibilities. Obviously there are some of us who would like to nudge the rules in one direction or another, more restrictive or less so, but in reality one does this not by a formal agreement, rather by changing enough minds that this is the direction in which the collective sensibilities evolve. In a sense, this is what TSherbs is trying to do here, whether anything comes of the explicit rules or not.

Pterodactylus
April 21st, 2017, 12:25 AM
I'm a happy camper too, and so far I've avoided commenting on this thread because I see no point in potentially upsetting the administrator. No-one but him has any authority to suggest what rules should apply, and nor should we try. That's for the administrator to decide, and it's his decision alone. If he's happy with it the way it is, then that's fine by me

I agree to that 100%
I feel also no need to define rule suggestions, beside that I'm annoyed by the huge amount of sales threads which blocks my sight to the real content I'm fine.

This community regulate itself automatically, we are all adults, no need for additional rule sets.

BTW. When I reported an Ad post whitin one of my threads our admin immediately removed it, so I have no reason to complain about a nonresponsive admin.

What I absolutely not want to see is such a ridicoulus rules set like on FPN ,and a commercialization like there, combined with completely stupid admins/mods which think they can rule/censor halfgod like the members like over there.

Leave it like it is, itˋs perfectly fine (beside hiding the sales threads in the "What's new")

Chrissy
April 21st, 2017, 02:38 AM
What I absolutely not want to see is such a ridicoulus rules set like on FPN ,and a commercialization like there, combined with completely stupid admins/mods which think they can rule/censor halfgod like the members like over there.

Leave it like it is, itˋs perfectly fine (beside hiding the sales threads in the "What's new")

I agree with you in the main part, but IMHO it isn't the actual rules & guidelines on FPN that are at fault per se, it's the way some of their heavy-handed moderators, who consider themselves to be God-like, interpret and administer them, and act like all-knowing dictators despite the fact that the rules and guidelines say that's not how they are meant to act. :(

TSherbs
April 21st, 2017, 06:09 AM
I'm a happy camper too, and so far I've avoided commenting on this thread because I see no point in potentially upsetting the administrator. No-one but him has any authority to suggest what rules should apply, and nor should we try. That's for the administrator to decide, and it's his decision alone. If he's happy with it the way it is, then that's fine by me....

Thanks, Chrissy. I labeled this thread and truly meant it as only "suggestions" and a place where we might try to find consensus in respectful terms for an argument that was boiling over into ungracious terms on another thread. The site owner(s) is, of course, free to do whatever he/she/they want. This has all been nothing but chat seeking clarity. Including those voices, like yours, saying they like things the way they are. Terrific! My mission with the thread is accomplished. And perhaps not surprisingly, very little debate has occurred about the actual guideline suggestions; there appears to be much consensus (or indifference). And, nothing here is meant as a "rule." As you note, only an ownership group (and admin team) can set those.

I certainly meant no offense to a site owner, nor did I imagine that any could be taken. I never imagined that a site owner would even be reading this (nor do I mind, in any way). I meant the discussion for us, and selected the appropriate forum for the discussion.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

FredRydr
June 14th, 2017, 06:27 AM
Well, here's a blatant example: https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20703-FS-Lamy-Petrol-50ml-Bottles At first, I smiled when I read the thread, noting the "likes" by so many members. But then I thought a bit more.

Is there more sensitivity about discontinued Lamy ink than, say, Parker Penman or Montblanc inks that have commanded ridiculous prices for years? But that's no excuse. If I saw a dozen bottles of MB racing green in a stationer's shop today at the old MSRP $12 a bottle, I assure you I'd buy them all and offer them at a price that undercuts current market. Buyers and I would be quite happy.

https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20064-forum-rules-suggestions?p=205650&viewfull=1#post205650

If one doesn't like a price on an item, don't buy. Let the seller languish with unsold inventory until he brings the price down. Or make an offer by PM.

Fred

sgtstretch
June 14th, 2017, 07:14 AM
I'd have no problems if this was a box of Lamy Dark Lilac or Copper Orange that (s)he stumbled across and picked up. But this was a very blatant and obvious case buying as much as he could get his hands one to sell for a profit. I tend to think that the fountain pen community looks out for each other, and this guy was preventing people from acquiring it at reasonable prices so he could make a large profit.

I was recently at a small stationery store and was planning on picking up some Petrol ink if they had it for friends that missed out on it, except I was going to sell it at cost + shipping, no huge profit mark up, and I wasn't going to buy out the store in case other people came along.

His behavior in his multiple reddit threads on this ink sale is typical of a ticket scalper, and deserves to get called out on.

fpnut
June 14th, 2017, 09:25 AM
I was recently at a small stationery store and was planning on picking up some Petrol ink if they had it for friends that missed out on it, except I was going to sell it at cost + shipping, no huge profit mark up, and I wasn't going to buy out the store in case other people came along.

His behavior in his multiple reddit threads on this ink sale is typical of a ticket scalper, and deserves to get called out on.
Well said and on point

RocketRyan
June 14th, 2017, 10:20 AM
As noble as the sentiment is, it would muddy the transparency of what is ok and not ok.

FredRydr
June 14th, 2017, 04:19 PM
...this guy was preventing people from acquiring it at reasonable prices....
Sorry, I don't buy this, at all.

Fred

FredRydr
June 14th, 2017, 04:39 PM
I was recently at a small stationery store and was planning on picking up some Petrol ink if they had it for friends that missed out on it, except I was going to sell it at cost + shipping, no huge profit mark up, and I wasn't going to buy out the store in case other people came along.

His behavior in his multiple reddit threads on this ink sale is typical of a ticket scalper, and deserves to get called out on.
Well said and on point

No, it's not on point at all. This is about crapping in other people's ads. It's not about being a nice guy and doing a favor for people and buying ink to sell at cost to friends. There's been no fraud here. Had the seller posted that Lamy was no longer making ink and the ink was rare, then there's an issue. (Even then, the issue might be best raised first in the Inky Goodness subform to learn what's true before dropping the crap in the seller's thread.)

All that's shown here is that he thinks the seller is an asshole, and that the seller is price gouging. Both may be entirely true, but the proper response to those issues is don't buy and raise the issues in the appropriate forum, not crap in the seller's thread, absent fraud. Otherwise, where do we draw the line when one Geek just doesn't like another Geek?

Fred

TSherbs
June 14th, 2017, 04:52 PM
Perhaps this could have been handled first back channel. And even helping fellow FPNers out with a post would likely involve language and gestures other than this.

Jon Szanto
June 14th, 2017, 05:21 PM
Perhaps this could have been handled first back channel. And even helping fellow FPGers out with a post would likely involve language and gestures other than this.

FIFY

stub
June 15th, 2017, 03:17 AM
If one doesn't like a price on an item, don't buy. Let the seller languish with unsold inventory until he brings the price down. Or make an offer by PM.


THAT ^^^

Pterodactylus
June 15th, 2017, 04:56 AM
I do not like the many selling threads here at all, but can´t change it.

I think pointing out that an offer is ridiculous helps a lot of less experienced users.
Many do not know the average market prices.

I also do not care if such a ˋpointingˋ out will spoil the sellers thread, to be honest I appreciate it if such an offer is spoiled and less experienced users are saved from paying ridiculous prices.

He might could have done it in a nicer way in this case, but in general I´m ok with it.
I also hate people which try to make big bucks the easy way without any personal performance.

For me this is still mainly a forum community not a selling place.
So preventing less experienced people from being ripped off is ok and intended, this is not a free market, at least for me.

But buying ink and claim to be the nice guy to selling it for cost is also not a valid argument for me in this case, just to mention it.

Fermata
June 15th, 2017, 06:32 AM
Had some racing green a while ago, bought 10 bottles of the stuff and offered it at the purchase price, I could have asked 5X what I paid. Not one person said thank you for the consideration, some wanted 3 bottled so that they could sell on at an inflated price - and did so.

Now I mind my own business and dont get involved in all this crap, lifes too short.

Well mine is anyway.

Farmboy
June 15th, 2017, 07:34 AM
The 'site owner' is not a mystery and at a high confidence I believe the posts are read and monitored.

Jon Szanto
June 15th, 2017, 11:32 AM
The 'site owner' is not a mystery and at a high confidence I believe the posts are read and monitored.

Guess what? That would only really have any meaning if it was the owner/admin himself making the statement. We are aware of this, however, because occasional issues *are* addressed. This is a completely different situation from an active and engaged forum management that actually acknowledges dialogue regarding activities and policies on the forum.

fountainpenkid
June 15th, 2017, 02:42 PM
Please feel free to 'crap' on my listings if there's a legitimate reason. The more transparency the better.

FredRydr
November 30th, 2017, 04:33 PM
Another example of bad netiquette in the classifieds: https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/22691-Franklin-Christoph-Antique-Glass?p=225930&viewfull=1#post225930

If he doesn't like the price, don't buy it. Many might agree with a complaint, but this still sucks. The whiner/whinger should delete the post.

stub
November 30th, 2017, 05:43 PM
Another example of bad netiquette in the classifieds: https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/22691-Franklin-Christoph-Antique-Glass?p=225930&viewfull=1#post225930

If he doesn't like the price, don't buy it. Many might agree with a complaint, but this still sucks. The whiner/whinger should delete the post.

Dude has a grand total of 2 posts and one of them is to price police something being sold at a sensible price. That is shitty. A mere $20 bump to cover shipping, and Paypal and NOT have to wait for a rare finish (and you might have to wait more than once if the list fills before you get on it) seems eminently reasonable to me.

SIR
December 1st, 2017, 04:03 AM
One rule: no rules.

As an internet forum i think we do very well in self-policing posts by simply ignoring or collectively challenging those of no interest, objectionable content, or obvious nonsense; our community, of which i am still but a baby member, is strong enough in shared values and cohesion to manage easily without conscious leadership or constitution - such is the sign of a weak community that it should ever need such things.

Chrissy
December 1st, 2017, 04:11 AM
Please feel free to 'crap' on my listings if there's a legitimate reason. The more transparency the better.

Never seen a 'legitimate reason' :blink: Not that I ever would anyway. ;)

mhosea
December 1st, 2017, 10:05 AM
Please feel free to 'crap' on my listings if there's a legitimate reason. The more transparency the better.

Never seen a 'legitimate reason' :blink: Not that I ever would anyway. ;)

Legitimate reasons would have to do with illegitimacy of the item or the seller, IMHO. Failing such elements, my policy is to watch in frustrated silence if I find the item interesting. Admittedly it would be more useful to make a fair offer, but when there is a great disparity, I sense, for better or for worse, that this might be annoying to the seller.

FredRydr
December 11th, 2017, 09:50 AM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10 3


https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3198/3149841730_d7edc3e46b_z.jpg?zz=1

Sailor Kenshin
December 11th, 2017, 10:44 AM
I'd better get on it then.

Jon Szanto
December 11th, 2017, 10:54 AM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!
I quit!

There. I did it.

FredRydr
December 11th, 2017, 11:02 AM
Since your eleven quits weren't preceded by indignation and woe, feigned or otherwise, your count remains at zero. Nice try, though.

Jon Szanto
December 11th, 2017, 11:09 AM
Since your eleven quits weren't preceded by indignation and woe, feigned or otherwise, your count remains at zero. Nice try, though.

Fuck off, in arrears.












(That's a joke, friends...)

kazoolaw
December 11th, 2017, 01:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW9-FOLG-iA

FredRydr
December 11th, 2017, 01:06 PM
...
Wrong forum. Try "Help and How-To."

FredRydr
December 11th, 2017, 01:16 PM
How mundane.

SIR
December 11th, 2017, 01:54 PM
36472

SIR
December 11th, 2017, 02:02 PM
That is not only a beautiful sentiment, but also wonderful handwriting. Many thanks.

And inspired by you, my friend.

RocketRyan
December 11th, 2017, 02:16 PM
36472

I always prefer the pirate version.
Take what you can and give nothing back.

Dreck
December 11th, 2017, 03:15 PM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

You should've set that limit a lot lower, Fred. It appears to have been taken as an invitation for repeat performance.

penwash
December 11th, 2017, 06:14 PM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

You should've set that limit a lot lower, Fred. It appears to have been taken as an invitation for repeat performance.

Not directed personally towards you, Dreck.

But somehow this reminds me of what the Apostle Paul's wrote in the bible:
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."

Jon Szanto
December 11th, 2017, 06:24 PM
I don't know.

Some days... I tried to make a joke, make light of the situation, and here we are, spinning out of control. I may have to report this to the moderators.

Marsilius
December 11th, 2017, 11:34 PM
I go away for the weekend and look what happens.
FWIW, I have been trying to ignore the classifieds in favor of the other posts as a matter of principle. Plus I can’t buy more pens for a bit . . . I am enjoying it more. Nothing against classifieds, but they were getting overbalanced. I cured that by looking at them less.

SIR
December 12th, 2017, 04:06 AM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

You should've set that limit a lot lower, Fred. It appears to have been taken as an invitation for repeat performance.

Pure coincidence or synchronicity; either way, unintentional, I think.

penwash
December 12th, 2017, 08:46 AM
I go away for the weekend and look what happens.
FWIW, I have been trying to ignore the classifieds in favor of the other posts as a matter of principle. Plus I can’t buy more pens for a bit . . . I am enjoying it more. Nothing against classifieds, but they were getting overbalanced. I cured that by looking at them less.

I think the content is a bit more balanced today than before.
At least I see some of us deliberately contribute with fun contents ... sometimes too much fun :D

Chrissy
December 12th, 2017, 09:32 AM
Just when I thought this thread had at last died a natural death it seems to have been resurrected again. :facepalm:

Fermata
December 12th, 2017, 10:00 AM
https://fpgeeks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36467&d=1513014755

And a maximum of one post for people playing the victim.

Sod it, not even one, grow some balls.

FredRydr
December 31st, 2019, 08:16 AM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

You should've set that limit a lot lower, Fred. It appears to have been taken as an invitation for repeat performance.
You're right.

Dreck
December 31st, 2019, 01:54 PM
Rule 142 - Maximum public forum "I quit!" limit per member: 10

You should've set that limit a lot lower, Fred. It appears to have been taken as an invitation for repeat performance.
You're right.

Yep. Here we go again. :rolleyes: Believe me, I take no joy in being correct in this one. The self-deprecation to garner attention is truly exhausting.

calamus
January 1st, 2020, 09:32 PM
This is terribly faskinatin'. I wish I understood what everyone was talking about. (I'm too lazy to go back more than about two pages into this thread.)

Dreck
February 4th, 2020, 07:36 AM
Yep. It didn't last, as usual (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/30317-Synergy?p=281810&viewfull=1#post281810). We should start taking bets on how long until it happens again, how much angst and drama will accompany the next grand exit, and how long the absence will last.

Fermata
February 4th, 2020, 11:43 AM
Taken from New Year's Resolutions 2020 (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/30035-New-Year-s-Resoltuions-2020)


5. My reputation on this forum is toast no matter what I do or say, so I will spend considerably less/no time here. Probably as an anonymous reader and not a member.

I've posted about 3 times so far this year (couple of thread replies and a classified ad). This is "considerably less", so, considering the bolded part in the quote above, your continual bleating about what I do or don't do here just makes you look like an asshole. That goes for those who support you too. Have you not got anything better to do? Perhaps, you know, actually creating content for example. I know it would be a radical departure from your usual sniping. [I see from your history that it has been 2 years since you last started a thread.]


Freedom of speech, freedom of expression. It's all well and good until the other fella says something you don't like, isn't it Dreck. Then you're all for shutting them down.


The claim that you had gone for good was also in your Signature, now modified. Therefore its not really fair of you to make comments against others 'bleating about what I do or don't do' when you have previously stated that you had cleared off and would no longer post.

Fermata
February 4th, 2020, 12:10 PM
I dont know Dreck and I dont know EoC, I cannot see much in this thread that has targetted EoC, especially when a declared exit has been made.

Either keep to your word or keep your head down and behave yourself.

Fermata
February 4th, 2020, 01:00 PM
Sorry to be blunt but I have no connection to you, I just don’t like drama , your FPG life seems surrounded by drama

I cannot speak for anyone else but it doesn’t matter two hoots whether you posted in the future or not, I am sure that if I never posted again no one would notice. All I want is to read something on here that is interesting or informative or entertaining all to do with my FP hobby.

If I want to take a break then that’s just as good, but I am not going to make a drama about it, and I cannot think of a reason why anyone would want to say something like

"I've got 12 minutes before midnight ends my involvement here - but if I lose this there are virtually no chances of getting anything like it. My resources here are limited and thin.” Ending your involvement, trying to understand how that works for you

What’s that all about?

I have no axe to grind here, yours, mine and 80% of the posts on here are not sufficiently important or even entertaining enough for anyone to care that much, just don’t make a drama out of it, you are the only one who does it and maybe the only one who cares. You had been on my Ignore list and only removed your name when I thought you had gone for good.

I am not usually one to tell anyone how to behave but it seems to me that you have two choices, go for good or behave yourself in an undramatic way.

This is much less important to me than the time I have already given, I dont really care enough to comment further.

penwash
February 4th, 2020, 02:23 PM
Yep. It didn't last, as usual (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/30317-Synergy?p=281810&viewfull=1#post281810). We should start taking bets on how long until it happens again, how much angst and drama will accompany the next grand exit, and how long the absence will last.

You know what. I for one appreciate David (EoC)'s contributions to FPG.

He came up with topics of discussions and I learn a lot from the responses.

Do I always agree with his view? Of course not, we are different persons.

But that's what makes this forum useful and good: Genuine questions, comments, and preferably free of snarky-ness.

TSherbs
February 4th, 2020, 10:20 PM
We might re-read the opening four or five posts of this thread.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

Farmboy
February 5th, 2020, 08:54 AM
Fred

Pass the popcorn

Thanks

penwash
February 5th, 2020, 09:33 AM
Fred

Pass the popcorn

Thanks

What are we watching?

Jon Szanto
February 5th, 2020, 09:43 AM
Fred

Pass the popcorn

Thanks

What are we watching?

People being people.

grainweevil
February 5th, 2020, 10:35 AM
Fred

Pass the popcorn

Thanks

What are we watching?

Groundhog Day.

catbert
February 5th, 2020, 11:29 AM
Fred

Pass the popcorn

Thanks

What are we watching?

Groundhog Day.

Groundhog Day is about enlightenment. I'm not sure this thread is.

Dreck
February 5th, 2020, 11:56 AM
Yep. It didn't last, as usual (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/30317-Synergy?p=281810&viewfull=1#post281810). We should start taking bets on how long until it happens again, how much angst and drama will accompany the next grand exit, and how long the absence will last.

You know what. I for one appreciate David (EoC)'s contributions to FPG.

He came up with topics of discussions and I learn a lot from the responses.

Do I always agree with his view? Of course not, we are different persons.

But that's what makes this forum useful and good: Genuine questions, comments, and preferably free of snarky-ness.

I'm not questioning the usefulness or validity of actual content--when and where it exists. I've no problems whatsoever with different viewpoints or personalities--to a point. What is as exhausting as it is entertaining is the ubiquitous, egregious, insane, and overblown drama that inevitably accompanies the content. If an individual insists on acting like an hysterical toddler, nobody should be surprised at the reactions to such behavior.

Pterodactylus
February 5th, 2020, 12:11 PM
Yep. It didn't last, as usual (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/30317-Synergy?p=281810&viewfull=1#post281810). We should start taking bets on how long until it happens again, how much angst and drama will accompany the next grand exit, and how long the absence will last.

You know what. I for one appreciate David (EoC)'s contributions to FPG.

He came up with topics of discussions and I learn a lot from the responses.

Do I always agree with his view? Of course not, we are different persons.

But that's what makes this forum useful and good: Genuine questions, comments, and preferably free of snarky-ness.

I'm not questioning the usefulness or validity of actual content--when and where it exists. I've no problems whatsoever with different viewpoints or personalities--to a point. What is exhausting and exasperating is the ubiquitous, egregious, insane, and overblown drama that inevitably accompanies the content. If an individual insists on acting like an hysterical toddler, nobody should be surprised at the reactions to such behavior.

I’m with penwash, I know EOC quite a long time, already from the dark side.
He was always eccentric, but I like his contributions, he makes the forum brighter and more interesting.
As for my part I would like to see him contributing more again.

And his handwriting is excellent :dirol:

TSherbs
February 5th, 2020, 02:04 PM
Please go to another thread with all this.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

FredRydr
March 2nd, 2020, 09:42 AM
Rule 63: Do not revive a thread where there's joy in it slipping towards and off the bottom of the page, for example:


Seems this thread has died*, but to put in a bit of input**....

* :applause:

** :cry:

TSherbs
December 2nd, 2022, 10:02 AM
Has anyone recently tried rousing the forum owners? I wasn't around when things broke down but it seems like it's been a few years; maybe they're ready to reconnect.

I just tried again.