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SIR
May 5th, 2017, 12:58 PM
Seller describes as 1970s, near mint... but it has an earlier nib and later cap, I think (?);
Tricolor 18C nib, solid ebonite feed, two barrel, black plastic filler threads, and 'GERMANY' not 'W GERMANY' on cap.

31997319983199932000

Fake, frankenpen, or uniquely genuine?

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss171/DKbRS/Pens/MB149Dating-2.jpg

Pterodactylus
May 5th, 2017, 01:28 PM
As far as I know W Germany was only used quite a short period in the 80s.
Before and after only Germany was used.

Looks good to me, no fake in my eyes, maybe 70s to early 80s.

jar
May 5th, 2017, 02:27 PM
Looks normal to me.

SIR
May 5th, 2017, 03:32 PM
According to the chart, 18C nib was only until mid 60s and is that single unit barrel or two unit?
What's the closest age we can reckon on?

Z-Tab
May 6th, 2017, 01:17 AM
18c would probably also apply to any French market 149s, because of France's gold laws.

SIR
May 6th, 2017, 06:44 AM
Interesting Z-Tab, thank you.

jar
May 6th, 2017, 06:57 AM
According to the chart, 18C nib was only until mid 60s and is that single unit barrel or two unit?
What's the closest age we can reckon on?
Montblanc, like most companies, did not stop using stuff that was already onhand. If they had stock they continued using that stock rather than remake it or throw it away. In addition, different markets have different rules governing things like proof marks, hall marks, date stampings and certification. When you then add in any possible changes or repairs or replacements that might happen over the almost a half century that pen has been around it is not surprising to find variations.

The chart like all such efforts is meant to be a guide rather than an authority.

FredRydr
May 6th, 2017, 07:19 AM
The chart was our effort to date 149s, evolved from feedback on the FPN Montblanc subform from some owners. It'd be a mistake to put too much reliance on it beyond guidance. There have been many exceptions to the chart over the years.

Fred

SIR
May 6th, 2017, 07:56 AM
Many thanks to you all!

Looks good then, but do I have the £450 for it..? (the answer is "no, not really")

SIR
May 6th, 2017, 08:00 AM
FYI anyone who is interested in this particular pen -
http://www.dylanstephenpens.co.uk/product/montblanc-meisterstuck-149-fountain-pen-circa-1970s-vintage-model/

Barry Gabay
May 6th, 2017, 08:09 AM
The pen looks fine. The three-tone 18C nib lasted well into the 1970s in the US and longer Europe. Enjoy your pen!

SIR
May 6th, 2017, 01:23 PM
Cheers Barry but, as much as i'd like it, I'm thinking this one isn't for me - all points considered, it does look fantastic though, doesn't it?

Chrissy
May 6th, 2017, 03:31 PM
Certainly no fake, but that EF nib looks too fine for me. I'm not mad keen on the look of an EF nib on a 149. But that's just me. :)

Also, is it my imagination or does that nib look like it's set a bit further out of the feeder case than it should be?

SIR
May 7th, 2017, 01:52 AM
does that nib look like it's set a bit further out of the feeder case than it should be?

Kind of looks that way but if you look at the nib and feed underside it doesn't really look as though it is, and other photos of 149 18C nibs (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=montblanc+149+18c+nib&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3zuvnpd3TAhXqKMAKHQxBAUwQ_AUICigB&biw=1219&bih=778)appear the same, so I guess not.

Chrissy
May 7th, 2017, 02:40 AM
There are plenty of 149's on eBay that are more of a bargain that this one. I just saw one end at less than £230. But I think it did need it's piston putting back in.

SIR
May 7th, 2017, 04:27 AM
It is good condition though, has desirable attributes (18C tricolor nib and ebonite feed), and is from a reputable seller, so... all in all a reasonable offering; but I'd actually really like one with the telescoping filler and single piece section ;).

Chrissy
May 7th, 2017, 05:05 AM
It is good condition though, has desirable attributes (18C tricolor nib and ebonite feed), and is from a reputable seller, so... all in all a reasonable offering; but I'd actually really like one with the telescoping filler and single piece section ;).
There is that. :) On the other hand, there are more 149 pens with EF nibs that don't sell than there are with other nibs.... :)

FredRydr
May 7th, 2017, 06:31 AM
It is good condition though, has desirable attributes (18C tricolor nib and ebonite feed), and is from a reputable seller, so... all in all a reasonable offering; but I'd actually really like one with the telescoping filler and single piece section ;).
If you want the telescoping piston mechanism, those are the celluloid pens. In the 149 size, expect to pay $1,500 - 2,000 for a pen without issues up to a fully restored example. If you are willing to accept a pen with problems (celluloid continues to shrink and deteriorate with age, regardless of use or abuse), you can pay less. Beware of poor repairs, especially invisible ones such as to the piston mechanism. Though prices are a bit flat compared to a couple years ago, there remains a steady demand for celluloid Meisterstucks, especially the 149, which keeps prices steady compared to the erratic and declining prices of most other high-end collectible vintage pens. For that reason, high quality restoration work on celluloid 149s is usually worth the expense. Keep in mind that a bargain-priced celluloid 149 added to high-quality restoration expense can easily meet or exceed the purchase price of an already-restored specimen.

As usual, YMMV.

Fred

SIR
May 7th, 2017, 09:59 AM
If you want the telescoping piston mechanism, those are the celluloid pens. In the 149 size, expect to pay $1,500 - 2,000 for a pen without issues up to a fully restored example. If you are willing to accept a pen with problems (celluloid continues to shrink and deteriorate with age, regardless of use or abuse), you can pay less.

Wow, now i know... very valuable information, and enough to persuade me to rethink my requirements!



There is that. :) On the other hand, there are more 149 pens with EF nibs that don't sell than there are with other nibs.... :)
Maybe I can make the seller an offer... ;)

Pterodactylus
May 7th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Some years ago I acquired on my eBay hunt a pen which was only advertised as I think with something like that: "Old FP not functional" (but in German).

The only picture was really really bad and you could not see much on it.
But I thought it could be a 50s 1xx Montblanc, maybe even a 146.

So I bid on it and took the risk not really knowing what I will get.
The auction price got quite high because of a second bidder (I assume he had the same guess as I had).
Finally I won the auction, not knowing what I would really get.

It could also turned out that I paid a lot of money for nothing.

When I opened the package I saw that I got a 50s Montblanc 144 with a beautiful BB nib.
The only beauty flaw it had was that the cap was cracked once but was repaired (but you can see that it was repaired)
It was full of old ink.

I disassembled the whole pen (the telescopic piston is a awesome piece) cleaned and greased it reassembled it and it worked just perfectly.
I not even needed a new seal.

This was my best pen hunt result Iˋve ever made.

I own now a 142 which I bought at a regular price and this awesome 144.
Most likely I will never acquire a 50s 146 or 149 because of the ridiculous prices asked for them.

SIR
May 8th, 2017, 01:22 AM
Some years ago I acquired on my eBay hunt a pen which was only advertised as I think with something like that: "Old FP not functional" (but in German).

The only picture was really really bad and you could not see much on it.
But I thought it could be a 50s 1xx Montblanc, maybe even a 146.

So I bid on it and took the risk not really knowing what I will get.
The auction price got quite high because of a second bidder (I assume he had the same guess as I had).
Finally I won the auction, not knowing what I would really get.

It could also turned out that I paid a lot of money for nothing.

When I opened the package I saw that I got a 50s Montblanc 144 with a beautiful BB nib.
The only beauty flaw it had was that the cap was cracked once but was repaired (but you can see that it was repaired)
It was full of old ink.

I disassembled the whole pen (the telescopic piston is a awesome piece) cleaned and greased it reassembled it and it worked just perfectly.
I not even needed a new seal.

This was my best pen hunt result Iˋve ever made.
Lucky gamble Ptero!

WmEdwards
May 8th, 2017, 07:47 AM
It is correct that French market pens should have 18 ct nibs. I have a 147 with an 18 ct nib that was a French market pen.

RayCornett
October 20th, 2018, 02:31 AM
This is what I was thinking and would explain the 149 I got tonight. 90s plastic feed and brass threads but 14k 2 tone nib. I thought this one was made right as they switched the threads and feed but had some 14k 2 tone nibs left. So, this is probably one of the first 90s 149s off the line.

Barry B. Gabay
October 20th, 2018, 09:25 AM
Hello RayCornett, You are correct about the date of production of the 149 you describe above. The two-tone 14K nib is seen from ca.1985 (w/split ebonite feed & 2-piece barrel & plastic piston threads) through ca. 1991 (w/ first generation plastic feed & brass threads). Yours seems to be one of the last 14K models. One very interesting (to me) transitional model comes just before yours: 14K nib, split ebonite feed, and brass piston threads. I have seen several egs of this model & owned one in the early 90s, having purchased it new when Price Club was still selling 149s at rock bottom prices. Enjoy your new pen & the weekend. Best wishes, Barry

ChrisC
October 24th, 2018, 04:06 PM
I would venture to say that these are 99.99999% of the time never fakes. Sometimes they just have repairs using a mixture of parts. Anything post 1950s celluloid Montblanc 149's will eventually have mixed era parts.

RayCornett
October 25th, 2018, 03:13 AM
Hello RayCornett, You are correct about the date of production of the 149 you describe above. The two-tone 14K nib is seen from ca.1985 (w/split ebonite feed & 2-piece barrel & plastic piston threads) through ca. 1991 (w/ first generation plastic feed & brass threads). Yours seems to be one of the last 14K models. One very interesting (to me) transitional model comes just before yours: 14K nib, split ebonite feed, and brass piston threads. I have seen several egs of this model & owned one in the early 90s, having purchased it new when Price Club was still selling 149s at rock bottom prices. Enjoy your new pen & the weekend. Best wishes, Barry
It took me from Friday night to Tuesday night to get it cleaned out from the old ink left behind but now it is filled and in use. I absolutely love it more than I ever expected to.