Ariel Kullock

[FredRydr]

In the Classified, it was posted that...


...As I understand it, Arial Kullock has stopped making any more pens....

This comes as quite a surprise. He seemed quite pen-oriented when I last saw Ariel. His eBay store is certainly current. I'd like more specific information on this, as I expect Ariel would, too.

Fred

[Empty_of_Clouds]

If this information is not correct and you are certain of it (or can provide other surety) then I will change the wording to reflect this.

This is the statement made by PenPartStore on eBay - I am given to understand that they are the main outlet for Ariel Kullock merchandise (again correct me if this is an error).


Since Ariel Kullock production of customized pen parts stopped in 2015 , these parts became scarce and will be very valuable in a near future. We are selling all the remaining stock that we have. We hope you enjoy it! They became collectable pieces since there will be no more new customized pen parts made by Mr. Kullock in different colors and patterns.


EDIT: I didn't know Kullock had his own eBay site. I've just checked and it has no mention of him stopping production. So now I am confused. Are penpartstore deliberately misleading with their statement, or not? I will remove the statement from my listing until such a time as clarification is provided.

Thanks Fred for bringing my attention to this.

[Jon Szanto]

I know none of the particulars of this except for what I am reading in this thread. It would be easy enough to find out. However, I'm wondering if there isn't something in the detais...

The item that EoC cited says that he stopped production of "customized pen parts". EoC mentions it in terms of "stopped making any more pens".

I actually purchased a barrel and hood of his for a 51, so I know that there were 'parts' available, as opposed to complete pens. I have a friend who just purchased a Kullock pen at the LA show. I think it is within reason that maybe Ariel is focusing on making complete pens only and not making up parts for conversions of old pens? In this way, the above scenarios would start to make sense.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

From what I had read the parts are only available until they're sold, and that no more are being made. It could well be that Ariel Kullock is no longer making parts for sale but continues to make complete pens. As this is unclear to me - now that I have done a bit of reading around rather than relying on the statement of one eBay seller - I have removed that statement from my classified.

Edit: I get the slightly uneasy feeling that I am being tarred for making the statement in the classified. Yes, I believed that Kullock pens/parts were no longer being made and thus would become harder to find. And yes, I made the statement to make the sale attractive. As it is people may think I am trying to drive the price up, however, I am selling the pen at a fixed price below what I paid for it. Anyway, the statement is removed but the price remains the same.

As with the other thread about courtesy on the board, I think in retrospect this issue could have been brought to my attention back channel, and I could have removed the statement without the public embarrassment.

[Jon Szanto]

Edit: I get the slightly uneasy feeling that I am being tarred for making the statement in the classified. Yes, I believed that Kullock pens/parts were no longer being made and thus would become harder to find. And yes, I made the statement to make the sale attractive. As it is people may think I am trying to drive the price up, however, I am selling the pen at a fixed price below what I paid for it. Anyway, the statement is removed but the price remains the same.

As with the other thread about courtesy on the board, I think in retrospect this issue could have been brought to my attention back channel, and I could have removed the statement without the public embarrassment.

Come on!!! FFS, you are among friends! We're all just trying to figure this out, too, nothing embarrassing about that. If it went back-channel *I* would have never seen it, and maybe that was an important distinction to be made.

Fred just asked a question. I'm interested, too, because I have seen a lot of his work and enjoy it. Let's not blow this out of proportion - we are all, in a friendly manner, just trying to figure out what's up with one of our pen makers. I don't think it has to be a slam on your sale or anything, let's just have it be friends looking out for each other.

[FredRydr]

His display at Ohio did not look like the product of someone who hadn't been making pens since 2015.

As has been discussed in netiquette threads in FPGeeks, issues that question claims made in classified ads should be raised in a relevant subform and not in the seller's thread. Here, a general assertion that Ariel is out of business (as opposed to specifics pertaining only to the item for sale) was made and I question that. So, I posted this thread here to invite information from others who may have recent first-hand information. I like Ariel, and it troubles me to read what I suspect are false claims about him or his business, especially as part of an effort to sell something.

Fred

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Fred, I made no false claims. To make a false claim I would have to know that it was false before making it. I didn't know that it was false, and having being apprised of the situation I moved to change the statement immediately. As far as I was aware the statement from penpartstore was true. Now what you are saying, based on your personal relationship with Ariel Kullock, raises questions about why the ebay seller is making that claim.

For my part my mistake was in not checking the background more thoroughly.

[Chrissy]

IMHO Fred didn't do or say anything that was remotely unreasonable. I don't think it's entirely appropriate to request that relevant queries only be discussed back-channel when many members might be interested in learning about them. :)

EOC I don't think anyone said anything to publicly embarrass you. It was just a query is all. No-one is 'tarring' you. :hug:

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Sure felt like it to me, otherwise why quote me?

I'm trying to sell off my remaining pens. I didn't even know that the Kullock statement might not have been true (based on what I had read) or I wouldn't have said it. I get the sense that nobody believes that though.

I have deleted the classified.

[FredRydr]

Empty of Clouds, don't take it personally. There's no reason to delete the entirety of your classified listing.


...I'm wondering if there isn't something in the detais... The item that EoC cited says that he stopped production of "customized pen parts". EoC mentions it in terms of "stopped making any more pens"....
Jon, your comment reminds me of an analogous circumstance that lead to a famous quote. While in London in the best of health, Mark Twain was informed of the report in New York that he was dying in poverty in London. He said,


I can understand perfectly how the report of my illness got about, I have even heard on good authority that I was dead. James Ross Clemens, a cousin of mine, was seriously ill two or three weeks ago in London, but is well now. The report of my illness grew out of his illness. The report of my death was an exaggeration."

Fred

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I did take it personally, and the way the query was couched looked like an accusation.

[stub]

oh, it's "EOC-expressing-his-dissatisfaction-and-getting-rid-of-all-his-pens-and-leaving-the-hobby" o'clock again I see.

What is it this time? Did that Waterman not work out? You've expressed your dislike of the Parker 51 before why'd you buy another? Why are you getting rid of this one? It looks stellar.

I've never seen someone with such a tortured relationship to this pen thing. I'll admit that last eBay adventure was a screwing but your level of disappointment, dissatisfaction and exasperation is off the charts. Do you not ever find any joy in any of your pens?

I'm doing up tomorrow's lecture notes with a sweet old Sheaffer Statesman II lever filler with nice old boring Pilot Blue and enjoying the living fuck out of it. I wish I could see you get some measure of satisfaction in this game. Your relationship to this pen thing just baffles me.

What would make you happy?

[FredRydr]

I did take it personally, and the way the query was couched looked like an accusation.
Oh, brother! Clearly you want a thread about yourself rather than the truth of your assertion that Ariel Kullock no longer makes pens. Gimme a break. I'm not taking the bait.

Fred

[FredRydr]

For Kullock fans, here's a website titled Coming Soon with an email address, too.


http://www.arielkullock.com

Fred

[Empty_of_Clouds]

oh, it's "EOC-expressing-his-dissatisfaction-and-getting-rid-of-all-his-pens-and-leaving-the-hobby" o'clock again I see.

What is it this time? Did that Waterman not work out? You've expressed your dislike of the Parker 51 before why'd you buy another? Why are you getting rid of this one? It looks stellar.

I've never seen someone with such a tortured relationship to this pen thing. I'll admit that last eBay adventure was a screwing but your level of disappointment, dissatisfaction and exasperation is off the charts. Do you not ever find any joy in any of your pens?

I'm doing up tomorrow's lecture notes with a sweet old Sheaffer Statesman II lever filler with nice old boring Pilot Blue and enjoying the living fuck out of it. I wish I could see you get some measure of satisfaction in this game. Your relationship to this pen thing just baffles me.

What would make you happy?

I've not expressed my dissatisfaction of any pens in this thread. I bought this 51 because I was interested in the material. Now I am selling it, nothing more. I've got a core of pens that I use daily, the rest are being sold. I enjoy the ones I'm keeping immensely.

What would make me slightly happier is if you made the effort to read rather than assume.

Edit: The Waterman was grossly misrepresented by the buyer with respect to its flexibility, but I actually really like the way it writes. So, until I find a more flexible version, I am perfectly happy with this one.



And Fred, I am interested in the truth of the claim, but the claim does not come from me. Perhaps you should turn your attention to the place where I got it from, which I have mentioned in this thread. I had reason to believe that this particular eBay seller was the main outlet for Kullock pens/parts. Why then are they making this statement?

[stub]

What would make me slightly happier is if you made the effort to read rather than assume.


Sorry I misinterpreted the meaning of "sell of my remaining pens" as another of your "I'm giving up on it all" moments. Your MO encourages such readings even you must admit.


Perhaps better to just not read you at all. I have enough drama in my life. Best of luck. Not sure why you'd sell the pen having just bought it if you were not dissatisfied. But ...

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I had written elsewhere about the idea of buying to try and selling on at a minimal loss if a pen wasn't suitable for me. The loss would be accepted as a kind of 'rental' fee, if you like. This is the only reasonable way I can try stuff out considering my geographical position, as I am sure you can appreciate. My apologies if I haven't written things more clearly, writing is not a strong point for me.

[amk]

I'm really glad FredRydr brought up the issue, as I'd read the ad and was quite sad to think Ariel Kullock was leaving the business. Glad to find out it's not true!

Whatever the ins and outs of the etiquette we need to make sure we do clarify these things - Kullock presumably makes a living out of pens, it's easy to damage someone's business on a forum without meaning to.

[mhosea]

I didn't even know that the Kullock statement might not have been true (based on what I had read) or I wouldn't have said it. I get the sense that nobody believes that though.


I believe it.

[Jon Szanto]

I didn't even know that the Kullock statement might not have been true (based on what I had read) or I wouldn't have said it. I get the sense that nobody believes that though.


I believe it.

So do I. I don't think you included that information in a malicious manner, but that it was simply ill-advised. Something for all of us to learn in this.

[Hawk]

I didn't even know that the Kullock statement might not have been true (based on what I had read) or I wouldn't have said it. I get the sense that nobody believes that though.


I believe it.


So do I. I don't think you included that information in a malicious manner, but that it was simply ill-advised. Something for all of us to learn in this.

I agree with Mike and Jon.

[dfo]

oh, it's "EOC-expressing-his-dissatisfaction-and-getting-rid-of-all-his-pens-and-leaving-the-hobby" o'clock again I see.

What is it this time? Did that Waterman not work out? You've expressed your dislike of the Parker 51 before why'd you buy another? Why are you getting rid of this one? It looks stellar.

What would make you happy?

I do not understand why this thread necessitates this kind of shaming.

[stub]

oh, it's "EOC-expressing-his-dissatisfaction-and-getting-rid-of-all-his-pens-and-leaving-the-hobby" o'clock again I see.

What is it this time? Did that Waterman not work out? You've expressed your dislike of the Parker 51 before why'd you buy another? Why are you getting rid of this one? It looks stellar.

What would make you happy?

I do not understand why this thread necessitates this kind of shaming.

I could explain my feeling and the motivation behind my post and compile links to other threads, etc to which my comments respond to but that leads up further afield and surves only me and you and has nothing to do with Kullock and his fine pens and if he is still making them or not. In any event it was not meant to shame but as an expression of a different emotion.


I hope Kullock sticks around a good long time with his pens and parts, of which I have bought several. He was very nice each time I dealt with him and on top of buying two of his pens he helped me restore pen by supplying needed parts. Glad to hear he is still in the game.

Believe it or not I wish EOC nothing but the best. I oddly get a sense of relief when he finds a pen he digs, the 823, the 88 are 2 that I recall. Life's short. Enjoy all the pens.

[mhosea]

but that it was simply ill-advised. Something for all of us to learn in this.

Note that PenPartsStore (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-51-DJ-Giant-Customized-Fountain-Pen-Turquoise-Demo-Color-Unique-8698/332227679226?_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D3f69d4e61bb24951ba 8099eccc4de7c2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D13% 26sd%3D332223733929&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac9779847-3f6e-11e7-a977-74dbd1807cdd%257Cparentrq%253A3386801215c0aa11f609 1212fffc660a%257Ciid%253A1) is still saying it.

As you pointed out, they can be right about that and Ariel still making custom pens (and even still selling parts from production runs from years past). I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Lots of times in business you stop and assess what your ROI has been on certain activities. It may turn out that you should do less of some things and more of others. Also, the tooling might not hold out forever and so could represent a limited resource.

[Farmboy]

but that it was simply ill-advised. Something for all of us to learn in this.

Note that PenPartsStore (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-51-DJ-Giant-Customized-Fountain-Pen-Turquoise-Demo-Color-Unique-8698/332227679226?_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D3f69d4e61bb24951ba 8099eccc4de7c2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D13% 26sd%3D332223733929&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac9779847-3f6e-11e7-a977-74dbd1807cdd%257Cparentrq%253A3386801215c0aa11f609 1212fffc660a%257Ciid%253A1) is still saying it.

As you pointed out, they can be right about that and Ariel still making custom pens (and even still selling parts from production runs from years past). I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Lots of times in business you stop and assess what your ROI has been on certain activities. It may turn out that you should do less of some things and more of others. Also, the tooling might not hold out forever and so could represent a limited resource.

Last time I purchased from PenPartsStore I was contacted by Michelle Kullock for payment/shipping instructions. I would assume she would know what is and is not.

[Jon Szanto]

Last time I purchased from PenPartsStore I was contacted by Michelle Kullock for payment/shipping instructions. I would assume she would know what is and is not.

I just went ahead and emailed Ariel through his website. I'll post any response/info that I receive.

[FredRydr]

Unfortunately, a classified relist of the pen that gave rise to this thread now evades a Geek's inquiry whether it's the same Kullock pen by posting that the pen merely looks like a Kullock. (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20483-Parker-51-non-standard?p=209196&viewfull=1#post209196)

Fred

[Jon Szanto]

I just went ahead and emailed Ariel through his website. I'll post any response/info that I receive.

I received a nice reply from Ariel Kullock this morning regarding these issues. I won't do an exact quote of what he wrote to me, but the gist of it is that, yes, they stopped making the plastic parts in 2015 to focus on other areas of his work and gave consent to Pen Parts Store to indicate that in their site copy. They have back stock of some of these materials that they use for custom work for clients and such. He is still very active in his custom pen work, mostly for private clients and vendors.

So, yes, Kullock is still actively creating pens, but the production of individual parts to customize your own pens has stopped. That is the distinction to be made at this point.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Unfortunately, a classified relist of the pen that gave rise to this thread now evades a Geek's inquiry whether it's the same Kullock pen by posting that the pen merely looks like a Kullock. (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20483-Parker-51-non-standard?p=209196&viewfull=1#post209196)

Fred

I don't see why this should matter. I have taken a completely non-committal approach to the listing. The pen is exactly as now described. No claims or assumptions made. As far as I know the red centennial material is a Kullock exclusive. Personally I've not seen it on any other pen than 3 or 4 Parker 51s. However, there may be other pens out there that use it that I have not seen, so I cannot make the claim that it is a Kullock material with clear certainty.

There's not much interest in these things it seems though.

[mhosea]

Unfortunately, a classified relist of the pen that gave rise to this thread now evades a Geek's inquiry whether it's the same Kullock pen by posting that the pen merely looks like a Kullock. (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20483-Parker-51-non-standard?p=209196&viewfull=1#post209196)


He obviously thinks it is, but now he's afraid just to say so. What do you want from the guy?

On a more general level, I suppose it is of some relevance whether a pen was assembled by an end user with Kullock "fantasy" replacement parts or was assembled by Ariel himself. Presumably the latter commands a higher price because the parts will have been subjected to greater QC scrutiny and are more likely to be properly fitted. Unless one purchases directly from Ariel, however, or from a source that is known to source directly from him, it is hard for a seller to know. It should not actually be all that rare that seller would be forced to say that a pen "looks like a Kullock" because while he can be reasonably certain who made the parts, he may not have any way of knowing who made the pen.

[stub]

There's not much interest in these things it seems though.

It is an amazing material and (I bet) a nice pen (both of my AK pens came in great shape). If I had the scratch I would be knocking at your door. I feel pretty sure that pen will sell. I think you just need to sit tight a little. Best of luck with the sale.

I know cleaning an aerometric is a PIA but a writing sample might help and listing it merely as "non-standard" I think does your add a bit of disservice. At least list it as a "Fantasy 51". I don't believe in the hard sell but you might be raining on your own parade there.

Despite the dustup earlier in the thread I should say I had zero issues with the way it was originally listed. I have (confession time) also once bought a fantasy 51 that I thought was all original but came with a replacement hood and barrel that Parker never made. I kind of wish the seller took as much care as you did to note that it is not 100% Parker Factory. Someone new to the hobby might not know, though yours is really obviously much more clearly not factory. But non-standard sounds less than sexy. That pen is sexy.

[Jon Szanto]

Unfortunately, a classified relist of the pen that gave rise to this thread now evades a Geek's inquiry whether it's the same Kullock pen by posting that the pen merely looks like a Kullock. (https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/20483-Parker-51-non-standard?p=209196&viewfull=1#post209196)

At this point I don't blame EoC for the listing at all. He's been named and shamed and it doesn't look like there was any ill intent at all, and I read that listing as a good-faith attempt to describe the pen while being in the crosshairs. We've cleared up any of the issues with parts and new pens because I actually wrote to Ariel himself. I happen to think it is a very lovely material and certainly looks to be Kullock's style of work. We've cleared up the questions and I don't think there is much to be served bashing anyone at this point.

EoC, best of luck on the sale. Try to keep in mind that the more 'special' the pen, the greater the possibility that it may take a little longer to find the right buyer. Keep it there and you'll find someone interested.

I've also received a second pleasant note from Ariel, assuring me that I could quote him verbatim, but at this point I believe the matter is clear. Let's all move on.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

There's not much interest in these things it seems though.

It is an amazing material and (I bet) a nice pen (both of my AK pens came in great shape). If I had the scratch I would be knocking at your door. I feel pretty sure that pen will sell. I think you just need to sit tight a little. Best of luck with the sale.

I know cleaning an aerometric is a PIA but a writing sample might help and listing it merely as "non-standard" I think does your add a bit of disservice. At least list it as a "Fantasy 51". I don't believe in the hard sell but you might be raining on your own parade there.

Despite the dustup earlier in the thread I should say I had zero issues with the way it was originally listed. I have (confession time) also once bought a fantasy 51 that I thought was all original but came with a replacement hood and barrel that Parker never made. I kind of wish the seller took as much care as you did to note that it is not 100% Parker Factory. Someone new to the hobby might not know, though yours is really obviously much more clearly not factory. But non-standard sounds less than sexy. That pen is sexy.


Kind words.

I only rarely list anything, probably given more away than sold. Really, I am no salesman and I don't enjoy the process like some people do. If this doesn't sell then I will most likely clean it thoroughly and look for someone to surprise as a gift.

[Chrissy]

I thought that Ariel Kullock's fantasy Parker 51's were really popular? :confused: Not that I have ever seen one, but they always look like superb examples, compared with some of the beat up 51's that I see when I'm searching on ebay :(

[Hawk]

"Kind words.

I only rarely list anything, probably given more away than sold. Really, I am no salesman and I don't enjoy the process like some people do. If this doesn't sell then I will most likely clean it thoroughly and look for someone to surprise as a gift."

E o C, hang in there, it is a very nice pen and I could see it in my collection. However, there is a thing called 'cash flow' so I would have to pass on it for now.
Maybe part of the problem, besides the pen being in somewhat a niche market, is the back and forth difference of opinion that was on this thread in the beginning. I think it has passed. It shouldn't have detracted from the for sale post....
Hang in there.

[Lunaelsol]

Would love to get this pen. I saw the first post and it really is beautiful under the light. love the way the reds brighten out like a volcano. Is it still up for sale?

[pajaro]

I believe EOC also.

I was wondering about Ariel Kullock also, because I have made a few conversions of 51s and a 45 with his parts. I like them, and I learned a few things from the conversions.

[Lunaelsol]

I see that it will be withdrawn by June 3 despite my offer to buy. Oh well, I hope it finds a good home.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

While some may admire your persistence, you had your answer from me in a private email on the other website. Please let it go.

[Lunaelsol]

as you wish. just don't forget shakespeare

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Lost on me.

The listing is now closed.

[mhosea]

But, for mine own part, it was Greek to me.

[Farmboy]

But, for mine own part, it was Greek to me.

Not so much Greek for me but rather a font I don't have.

[catbert]

Good fool, as ever thou wilt deserve well at my
hand, help me to a candle, and pen, ink and paper:
as I am a gentleman, I will live to be thankful to
thee for't.

- Twelfth Night


Sell when you can; you are not for all markets.
Cry the man mercy, love him, take his offer;

- As You Like It

[FredRydr]

Sell when you can; you are not for all markets.
Cry the man mercy, love him, take his offer;

- As You Like It
'Tis lost on him.

Fred

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The "buyer" and I had already discussed this privately. The answer was a "no".

If anyone is interested in the pen then they know how to contact me. I detest selling stuff most of the time. Not because I want to keep things, but because of the game playing.

[catbert]

Just trying to guess what the Bill Shakes reference might have been. The decision to sell or not is, of course, entirely up to you.