Parker 61 Capillary nib section strip down

[proteus]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone here has successfully ( no parts damaged at all ) stripped down a clogged Parker 61 Mk I / II capillary feed.

Practically everyone I have ever spoken to all consider it a ' Dark Art ' & best left to professional pen restorers.

Spent the last month on working out ways to do it. ( I am retired )

Bought an Ultra Sonic Unit, a number of specialised tools .........

Completely freed one on Sunday ...........now feeling little smug.

Has anyone else done this ?

Can add photography if anyone is interested.

[rcburgin]

If it's not too much trouble, please add the photos.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

[Hawk]

I'm also interested in photos.

[proteus]

Hello again,

I delighted to have received two replies to this post.

Today I photographed the first P61 Capillary I stripped down. ( attached )

Over this weekend I will do a short piece on technique - and it does really work..... it is not like looking at the Utube videos.

I tested my technique further - Today I stripped down 4 more P61's ( Capillary and Mark III cartridge models ) .......then when to 2 P51 MkI's ( the sacs were functional and pre flushed )
P51's are vastly easier to release.

Many thanks

[Hawk]

I guess I was looking for the disassembly of the capillary. Removal of the hood is pretty basic even with the fragile and often shrunken plastic.

[Jon Szanto]

I guess I was looking for the disassembly of the capillary. Removal of the hood is pretty basic even with the fragile and often shrunken plastic.

I had inferred the same thing, wondering if there would be a new filling system mod to make these pens more useable. Getting the hood off can be a pain at times, but the filler is the real mystery.

[Farmboy]

On a 61 you don't remove the hood from the pen, you remove the connector from the hood.

[Jon Szanto]

On a 61 you don't remove the hood from the pen, you remove the connector from the hood.

I'll be honest: I don't follow. That sounds to me like "you don't remove the lid from the jar, you remove the jar from the lid". Which is only different in description.

Illumination, please (not that I'll ever tear down a 61...)

[PaulS]

not that I've attempted to dis-assemble a 61 capillary unit, but wouldn't have imagined that it was a very practical step to take anyway .. these are not rare pens, and the rolled capillary element is not something that I'm aware of seeing anyone having removed.
The Pen Repair manual says that "The task is to remove the debris from the foam pad at the top (of the capillary) and from the interstices of the rolled capillary element".
The authors go on to say that when cleaning 61s with a capillary system, they should be flushed from the rear of the unit and never from the nib end - the reason being that the latter method might push debris further into the rolled element and add to the problem.

With the greatest of respect to proteus, I don't get the impression that flushing the capillary unit is necessarily made any easier by dismantling the hood/shell, as opposed to simply leaving it in place whilst flushing ............ but I'm always someone pleased to be proven wrong:)

Capillary 61s can, apparently be converted, but can't imagine this would be a cost effective exercise.

[proteus]

The object of his reply is NOT to present any guidelines – it is merely my experiences

The items I used :

Plastic Bowl with enough room to submerse an uncapped fountain pen

I have only ever had limited success just soaking nib sections overnight so a week ago I bought an Ultrasonic Unit – Amazon UK for £32 ( STEWART Ultra 7000S – Ultrasonic frequency of 42,000Hz )
Some will say that is a lot of money if I only want to clean one pen which, of course, it is. I wanted to clean about 45 pens so for me it is cheap.

Hair dryer with a nozzle attachment which changes the output from circular to long & flat.

New piece bicycle inner tube

Pliers ( I have tried various types but settled on these small jaws. )

The process I used :

Removed the pen cap and submerge the nib section into the bowl filled with warm water.

Allow the ink to disperse from the pen until to runs clear or near clear.

Place the section into the Ultrasonic unit filled with warm water.
I did two cycles at 180 seconds with a break of 30 seconds in between.

Remove the pen and wipe it dry.

Apply heat using the hair dryer – I used maximum heat and apply it to the area to from the clutch ring to about 25mm down the hood ( That is the area which houses the collector steel cylinder and screw sections )

Heated for about 15 secs – rotating the pens to disperse the heat even around the whole body.

After this the area should feel hot to touch – do not over heat – the plastic is brittle.

Wrap the piece of inner tube around the steel screw section near to but not touching the clutch ring.

Apply the pliers and offer a firm hold – it will not need much pressure to hold it very firm.

With the pliers in one hand used the other to turn the hood anti clockwise.
Be gentle ( firm grip ) once it is loose it will easily unscrew.

Placed the ‘opened ‘ section in the bowl of warm water.

When the ink has dispersed place the whole unstripped section back into the Ultrasonic unit filled with warm water. I gave it two cycles again at 180 secs.

After this all the ink was removed and I then stripped the nib section.
If you try to strip down before it is totally clean you risk hardened dry ink damaging the fragile plastic sections.

I could have easily removed the small teflon ( PTFE ) coated rolled plastic sheet from the black capillary cell by releasing the plastic ring – the downside is that this unit will need to be resealed.
A month ago I did this to my another nib section just to see what was inside.
The long nib feed sits inside it.
I thought it was a very clever piece of engineering.

I suspect that experienced pen restorer do not take the time amount of time and effort to complete this process. If any thing is damaged they just charge the customer more money to replace parts that were damaged.

That is the prime reason I did this – I wanted to keep all the parts undamaged and, of course, learn to do something new.

If anyone has any comments / observations / questions please do post a reply.

[Hawk]

not that I've attempted to dis-assemble a 61 capillary unit, but wouldn't have imagined that it was a very practical step to take anyway .. these are not rare pens, and the rolled capillary element is not something that I'm aware of seeing anyone having removed.
The Pen Repair manual says that "The task is to remove the debris from the foam pad at the top (of the capillary) and from the interstices of the rolled capillary element".
The authors go on to say that when cleaning 61s with a capillary system, they should be flushed from the rear of the unit and never from the nib end - the reason being that the latter method might push debris further into the rolled element and add to the problem.

With the greatest of respect to proteus, I don't get the impression that flushing the capillary unit is necessarily made any easier by dismantling the hood/shell, as opposed to simply leaving it in place whilst flushing ............ but I'm always someone pleased to be proven wrong:)

Capillary 61s can, apparently be converted, but can't imagine this would be a cost effective exercise.

In spite of Parker's recommended flushing in one direction, I don't know where the debris is located in the capillary. Personally, I have flushed in both directions with the hood on. Some pens with great success and others not so much success. One needs to be careful in flushing so the small foam pad isn't lost or dislodged. I don't know if losing the foam piece keeps the pen from functioning. However, it must have a purpose.

[PaulS]

quote ................. "I wanted to keep all the parts undamaged and, of course, learn to do something new." I agree with that philosophy - I'm a great believer in trying to understand what's going on inside the pen - I've cut one or two sections and caps down the middle to see exactly what's happening and to show how I should have taken something apart. Of course, if you cut into a pen part then you've probably ruined the pen anyway, so it's a measure not to be recommended unless the pen is knackered in some way or other.
Anyway thanks for the tutorial - very useful

Always possible the foam piece acts as an additional filter of some sort.

I don't yet have an ultra sonic cleaner - I'm still toying with the idea of getting a plating kit before the cleaner, but don't have it yet.

[Farmboy]

On a 61 you don't remove the hood from the pen, you remove the connector from the hood.

I'll be honest: I don't follow. That sounds to me like "you don't remove the lid from the jar, you remove the jar from the lid". Which is only different in description.

Illumination, please (not that I'll ever tear down a 61...)

The hood is keyed in place with the internals making rotation difficult and prone to cause damage so you rotate the collar. Once loose you slide it off the filler shell and then pull the hood off.

Parker sold as spare parts replacement capillary packing, feeds, and teflon coated shells. They also had a special tool to stake them all back together. Parker also listed the entire assembly as a part.

NOS guts are available but I'd only advise putting them into a rare barrel/hood combination due to the cost of said items.

61s are nice pens with many finish options though I find them to be about 10 to many for me.

[proteus]

I add the following images.

[PaulS]

not a suitable place to show my latest acquisition, but since it's the same model under discussion, and apparently an uncommon design, thought I might be forgiven - found this morning in a local charity shop for Sterling £20 - very chuffed of course.
This grid-lined pattern occurs both on the cap only, as here, and on a full bodied r.g. pen, known as the Consort Insignia - made, it seems, for only two years - 1967 - 69, due to a lack of popularity, according to Lambrou.
I've not seen a picture of a Consort biro, so could be very wrong, but get the impression from the book that there is also a ball pen with this pattern - unlike this one which is a full plastic body, although don't doubt for a moment that these two belong together as a set. Both made in the U.K.

[proteus]

Hello,

Thank you for posting your photography here.

It would appear you have got a bargain.

Your P61 is called a CONSORT, manufactured at Newhaven, Sussex on the dates you have mentioned 1967 -69
It is, of course, the last of the capillary pens.

If you are interested the word ' INSIGNIA ' is only designated to Gold / Rolled Gold Cap & Barrels.

Your cap is 1/5 RG unlike all the other versions which are 1/10 RG - Most call this ' Gold Fill ' it is a american designation.
It has twice the amount of gold.

Your ballpoint is called a Parker 45 Deluxe which was produced at Newhaven from 1967 onwards.

The box is from the early 1970's - at quess I would say 1971/3

Your P61 Consort would have been sold in a Metal White Polka Dot case.

There are also P65 version of this pen.

[PaulS]

thanks for the information - much appreciated. From what you have said, the box for these pens is not the original - it's covered in what looks like an imitation leather material - simply plain black with leather textured surface and the word PARKER in silver.
I see lots of Polka Dot boxes and they become boring after a while - this one looks to be a better quality than Polka dot:) Underneath the red tray there were three Parker long cartridges - although in fact there is provision for four. Can also tell you that someone has removed the capillary tube and inserted the shortish steel squeeze fill (not the P51 type) - perhaps I should convert the pen back to capillary? mode?

[proteus]

Many thanks for your reply.

The box is correct for your P45 ballpoint, just not for your P61 FP

You must move in very different circles to me if you think Mid / Late 1960's Polka Dot Metal clam boxes are common.

I would very impressed if you have ever seen a perfect 2 or 3 pen version ( have attached a photograph of one I recently sold to a fellow collector for £50 )

Your words ' Can also tell you that someone has removed the capillary tube and inserted the shortish steel squeeze fill (not the P51 type) - perhaps I should convert the pen back to capillary? mode? '

I would very much like to look at pen 'open'

Can you please photograph it with the barrel removed , also one of the nib section

Many thanks again

[PaulS]

sorry for the delayed reply - I don't always look in every day.

Attached are pix of the squeeze fill, also the nib section - trust these are the parts you wanted to see. I believe that 1969 was the year of the formal demise of the capillary system - so my suggestion is that my P61 is either a late 1969 or perhaps even a 1970 model which was able to accept a converter and yet still retained the Consort patterned cap. As with Parker's factory practice over many decades, they continued to use up stock of parts where models had already been discontinued, rather than bin these parts.
Of course I could be wrong, but that sort of reasoning seems as good an explanation as any other.

The fully hooded nib on this pen, plus the inlaid gold arrow on the section, confirms this as a P61 rather than any other model.

[proteus]

PaulS,

Thank you for posting the photography of your pen.

It looks magnificent.

What a great buy.

The barrel, nib section and ink converter are P61 MkIII ( 1969 - 1982 )

If you have the time please can you tell me what is printed on the cap band.
All marks - PARKER MADE IN ENGLAND 'HALLMARK SHIELD' ' 1/10 12CT R GOLD ' 'HALO'
Will date the cap if you wish.

Your comments ' As with Parker's factory practice over many decades, they continued to use up stock of parts where models had already been discontinued, rather than bin these parts. '

Of course you are right, I have a question if may how did you know that ?
( Would be impressed if you tell me you know ' Bunny ' - she worked reception at Newhaven )

[PaulS]

hi proteus - yes, believe you are correct and this is the Mk. III - believe also that the Consort pattern was a U.K. design only and not made elsewhere.

The cap carries the following imprints .................. commences with the halo - then ......u/c PARKER (for each of these letters, the left side down strokes are made with double lines) - 1/5 12 CT over R. GOLD - MADE IN ENGLAND.

My knowledge regarding Parker f.ps. is obviously a lot less than yours, so often I lack details as to precise date lines and model changes for many of Parker f.ps., and this particular P61 Mk. III is an example which makes for some possible confusion as to its date of manufacture. Tony Fischier says that Consort was a pattern introduced in 1967, although he omits any reference as to when it was withdrawn and doesn't include an image of Consort within his P61 section. I'm assuming that Andreas Lambrou has his facts correct when he states this design was discontinued in 1969, but always possible it continued for longer than he believes.

Discounting for a moment the fact that P61 Mk. III continued into the early 1980s - and keeping in mind this pen has the Consort designed cap, plus converter, but is nonetheless a Mk. III - then is it reasonable to assume, as I suggested earlier, this pen must date to no later than 1969 - 70 ........... what do you think?

Unfortunately, I've not had the pleasure on knowing 'Bunny' - if I did I might have asked her to find me some good pens:) ............. and regret to say that I've forgotten now exactly where I read the comment about using parts on later Parker pens after a model had been withdrawn officially.
I suspect it was somewhere in one of the three Parker books I have ........... the P51 - the Vacumatic - and the Duofold. I've no idea as to how widespread this practice was, and it may have applied to older f.ps. more than post 1960 models for all I know.

P.S. Is it too late to speak to Bunny and ask for some cheap Consort Insignias or Presidents - :pound:

[amk]

Wow! Twenty quid !!!! what a magnificent pen and what a lucky so-and-so!

This is turning out to be a fascinating thread as I'm learning about both 'insides' and 'outsides' from people who clearly know their Parkers much better than I do. It's a bit like doing an art history degree with an option in anatomy and surgery :-)

[proteus]

Some fast comments.

Busy at the moment ( family stuff )

Few people realise that most P61 Mk III Caps will fit most Mk I & II shells

As for the Parker books written - sorry not a fan of any of the authors ( some facts are not up to date and just too basic for me )

If anyone is interested :
The best Parker internet site by miles is Lih-Tah Wong 's Parker 75.com ( even it is 3 - 5 years out of date )
Parker 51.com too ( I have found their dating references just not precise enough for me )
For very basic Parker reference parkerpens.net is outstanding

As for the rest I will be polite and say do not bother.

[PaulS]

we shall wait for the 'slow' comments then:) - no hurry.

It might be argued that, as we know, this grid patterned cap seems to have been made only within the short window of 1967 to 1969 - although as you've also said, the Mk III barrel, section and converter might be from anywhere in the period 1969 - 82, so in theory this could be a combination of early and later dates, but I don't think so. I could be very wrong, but the manner in which I acquired this set doesn't suggest to me that someone had been swapping or interchanging later parts with an earlier cap.
Those f.ps. that I find in my charity shop searches, are often the result of someone's demise or a move to accommodation for older people - the sort of event that causes folk to downsize, and pass some of their possessions to such shops, and I see this set as simply passed on in it's original state. Although I think such finds are now less frequent, I don't recall finding any sets or singles that had obvious signs where parts might not be as expected, date wise I'm thinking.
So for the time being I'll stick with my suggestion of 1969 - 1970, unless you can convince me otherwise ............. 1969 being both the earliest date for the Mk. III (converter etc.) and probably the last date for the Consort cap. ........... but allowing some small extension in date.

Regret I'm not knowledgeable enough to suggest whether my books are unreliable in some areas or not - but can say they make for very enjoyable reading, and think on balance I'd rather have them than not. Unfortunately, some are expensive.

[proteus]

Hello PaulS,

Many thanks for your patience.

I have taken a little time over this because I wanted to make sure I was totally correct.

The Parker Consort Cap was fitted to both P61 & 65 and were discontinued in 1972 so your pen is 100% correct.
( My previous comments were incorrect, I was 3 years out )

I looked today at my research notes on P65 not a something I usually refer to. ( I only have two – always preferred P61’s )
Have added a photograph of the summary header sheet.

I have spoken to a real expert on P65 Mk III’s, he has confirmed the end date of 1972.

You must be feeling a little smug, you have a rare 100% pen.
I have never seen one in 24 years of collecting Parker pens.

[PaulS]

Hi proteus - sincere thanks for taking the time to investigate this so thoroughly for me - I'm in awe of such formidable expertise, but ................ your emphasis on the P65 model now has me confused. Are you saying that my pen is a 65 rather than a 61? - my apologies if I sound unsure - I had assumed mine couldn't be a 65 since it doesn't have the open nib, but does have the inlaid gold arrow of the 61. Sorry to seem rather dim.

Wouldn't say that I feel smug necessarily - I get obsessive often, like so many collectors, and overspend and then endure some weeks having to claw back an escalating overdraft. With its unusual cap pattern, this is an attractive pen, although I have more black barrels on 61s than any other colour - I will bequeath this one to you in my will.:)

[proteus]

Hello PaulS,

Sorry for the confusion in posting my personal notes on the P65.

The cap you have was fitted to both P61 & P65 upto 1972.

As I have has said before your pen is 100% original.

' I will bequeath this one to you in my will '
No, thanks I do not need any more P61's

Did not post my research notes on the P61 because they are just too long and I do not have a summary header with dates.

nb - what is odd but up until 2 years ago my main interest was P75 & P35
A long while back I started collecting P80 Harlequins but got bored after having all of them including all the prototypes - Red Blue Green ( never got the gold version - a tricky German collector who would not part with it )
Moved onto collecting rare demonstrators and teamed up a USA collector - got a VP a few 51 's
Then decided I only wanted to collect pens that are offered to the public ( I never wanted to be a historical collector )
..........I appear to have rambled on too much.
Will stop now.

[PaulS]

Hi proteus - so no doubt this is a P61 Mk. III, with Consort cap pattern, and from the period 1967 to 72. Thanks again for all your help, and no, I don't think you have rambled on too much - wouldn't our posts be boring if the personal content was omitted completely. Apologies also to the op for having diverted this thread.
Only one pen from the charity shops today ........................ a Swan with a Conway Stewart No. 5 nib. Now I wonder if you know ..................:bolt: :)

[proteus]

Hello again PaulS,

That must be some special charity shop you get pens from.

As for your new pen, please remember my knowledge is very limited - most UK Newhaven / Meru / St Herblain Parker pens post 1950 to present day - I am not the oracle

If you able to post photographs of it there is a possibility I know someone who will identify it and give an idea of value.
Please remember condition & function are all.

The photography must include the nib , feed and the top view of the pen cap including the clip.

Not sure how this extended post will sit with the mods though - Not Parker stuff

nb The most money I ever spent on a pen was a Parker 85 Florence Gold NOS Boxed.
Why did I buy it ? Because I wanted one.
Having got it and looked at it was it worth it ? Hell yes.
Is it the rarest pen I have ? Not by miles. Just wanted one.
Collecting rare things is very addictive.
I know there are others here will understand this.

[PaulS]

hi proteus .......... must apologize as my comments about my 'new pen' were not intended to be taken seriously - had hoped my 'smileys' conveyed that - seems like Mrs. May, I too failed.:)
I did find a black l.f. Swan (c. late 1940/early '50s possibly) with a C.S. nib - but would certainly not post here as not the right place at all - in fact doubt that I shall post anywhere as it's not a very exciting pen - and in view of the nib then probably what folk here would describe as a 'frankenpen'. Being a bit dim it took me some time to realize this was a name derived probably from Mary Shelley's 'all spare parts' monster. Isn't it fascinating to wonder at the past history of some older f.ps. ........... whose hands held this M.T. we'll never know - or where it lived and whether it was loved or not............ perhaps not, as it now has the wrong nib, although that is possibly the best part of the pen - it's a good firm medium/fine I'd guess. The section carries the word Swan, but the barrel lacks a model No., and the barrel threads are plastic and not metal, and the furniture is brassed - I'm a big fan of M.T., although not too well informed about them. This one cost £4.00.
If your knowledge is limited, I'd hate to think what mine is - have a feeling you're being a tad too modest, and am sure you do know a lot more than you'd have us believe.

I guard my charity shops with my life - it's taken a long time to cultivate a relationship with those ladies such that they now put pens to one side for me - and I've had some gems over the past few years. Hunting in the wild is so much more fun than being a cheque book collector, although sometimes it can't be avoided.

I get the impression the P85s are rare - I don't have one yet - I envy you that Florence in gold. I don't write - have no friends - but wouldn't want to write with a nail anyway, and so many post 1950 Parkers are unexpressive when it comes to writing - give me a flexible nib any day, but like you I love to collect Parker f.ps. for their quality, beauty and rarity, and have a few good ones. I'd agree that collecting rare things is addictive - is it because you want something few other people have - possibly - but such passion is sometimes destructive on the bank account - but really do relate to what you're saying, and would hate to be without my passion for collecting, how dull life would be.

Anyway, now I've rambled too much - so end of missive and good luck with the searching, and keep up the Latin abbreviations.:)

[proteus]

Hi PaulS,

Read your last reply with great pleasure.

Really enjoyed reading your frank comments.

It appears to be very rare on this forum.

As this is my post I would like to say you have 'free run' always to say what you think here.

Few would be so brave.

Sorry to say I am a ' cheque book ' collector, never bought a pen in the wild.



Need some time to adjust - very comfortable with level of communication.............it is why I joined this forum

Will add more personal comments on pen collecting shortly.......

[proteus]

Hello again PaulS,

Thanks for your patience, I needed some time to reflect on your comments.

I am very aware there are wild pen collectors like yourself.

Your comments made me feel cheap, not feel like a real pen collector.

It made me think what am I actually trying to do with my Parker pen collection.

I am always collected Parker pens, a few years ago I got fed up with only receiving 0.5% on my savings. I decide to buy a lot of pens as an investment.

If you buy wisely and only buy Perfect examples ( NOS ) they appreciate at possibly 10-15 % per annum ( only because they are rare and collectors always want them )

What I very quickly realised was the top UK pen dealers knew a little less than me about identification. Their objective was, of course, only profit – that is the very big difference between a dealer and collector. I never say much when I look at a dealer’s pen, I usually wait for him to tell what it is. It is always interesting listening to them.
( Only ever bought one pen from a dealer in 24 years of collecting. )

So most will think so where does he buy his pens ?

Private collectors mostly.

It is a very odd circle which few have access to, if you wish to dine at the top table.

This may surprise some – the most knowledgeable collector of Newhaven Parker 51’s I have ever encountered lives in the Far East and always has.

Nb – I once watched a UK ebay seller ( he was clearly a conduit ) sell 4 prototype rare Parker 61’s. I believe there are only 3 or 4 made of each. They came direct from the Newhaven archives. The shame was £1000 would have bought all 4. I resisted bidding, decided a while back I never wanted to be a historian of prototype pens. Beginning to think I should have save them, I could have easily. They were bought by a mixuture of dealers and private buyers.

[Farmboy]

If 61s are of interest there was an article about them recently in either Pen World or the Pennant. I don't remember where I saw it.

[PaulS]

hi proteus - don't see any reason why you should feel cheap - we all collect in different ways, and what turns some people on does nothing for others, - at least you have made an investment of your collecting and fingers crossed values will increase with time. Think I've heard/seen in recent months that quality f.ps. have increased in value more so in recent times than for a few years - so you should have benefited from that - although whether your 10 - 15% can be sustained permanently is doubtful.
Generally, my methods of collecting are slower which, depending on your point of view, may be good or lacking in prompt results - certainly if a substantial collection was wanted quickly then your route is by far the better. I enjoy my searching - I leave the car at home and walk to most of my destinations - with occasionally a necessary train home, and if I didn't drink as much beer as I do, then I'd be quite healthy.
Must remember to enjoy our collecting though - once that principle is lost then perhaps we should stop.

Agree about dealers lack of knowledge - and good idea to let them speak first, and some very good deals can be had by keeping mouth shut, but occasionally I have to visit an antiques fair to top up the passion and adrenalin.
Think you're right sticking to one main brand - unfortunately I deviated some while back and now have Parkers, Sheaffers, M.T., C.S./Relief, Burnham, TdLR, Wyvern, Waterman, Mentmore and Platignum - oh, and some brand called Miscellaneous, but don't know who made them.;)

Must be careful we don't treat this thread as our personal blog - perhaps we should stick to posts of specific pen issues otherwise we might get bad press. Been great chatting, and thanks again for sharing your expertise on the Parkers.
Best wishes and good luck. :)

thanks farmboy - will try to run the article down.

[proteus]

Some images of Don Doman's prototypes for the P61.

If anyone is interested.

As for the UK ebay seller - tracked him down with some help from others. ( spent alot of time on this this evening - just wanted an answer )
The seller was not a conduit, sad to say he is someone who had access to Newhaven archives..........was also a pen author - how sad.

[Fermata]

Thank you for the informative discussion on these pens, most interesting.

[proteus]

Hello again,

Before I ramble on, I would like to thank Fermata for the kind comments.
They are greatly appreciated.

Have moved on abit on the pen stripdowns.

Dealt with a fully clogged P61 & P51 both Mk I's using the same method as mentioned before - it really does work. ( just wanted to test my method - neither were from my collection - were given to me as two no hopers )

If anyone is interested I can post some photography of totally stripped 1950 / 51 Aerometric nib & feed section

Watched the Youtube P51 Aerometric stripdown again - it is easy if you have a prepared pen !

nb -

In the last few days bought another two P61's too

A NOS UK P61 Insignia Pencil Boxed - never seen one before
Also a P61 set - Early USA versions ( pre 1963 ) again Boxed. Never seen a ballpoint / pencil like this before.
Was very lucky.

[PaulS]

Hi proteus - now I wonder who it was that said, recently - "No, thanks I do not need any more P61's" :) If you have the time, then yes, please do post some pix.

[proteus]

For PaulS

Collecting rare things is very addictive

Perhaps one day I may have everything I ever wished for.

[PaulS]

hi - yes, I couldn't agree more - what's the point of collecting something that every Tom, Dick and Harry has. If you do decided to add some pix of the P51 nib and feed section, you might consider starting a new thread - bearing in mind this one has a different subject heading. Just my opinion of course.:)

[Chrissy]

I've seen adapters available on eBay for conversion of Parker 61 pens. It's basically the metal part with two screw threads on it that needs replacing with a black plastic version. I don't remember how much they were but it wasn't a hefty price tag.

My problem with Parker 61 pens is that the arrow can tend to come off in an ultrasonic bath and they are impossible to replace as perfectly as they were originally placed on, apparently with no adhesive.

[proteus]

Interesting you mention that ebay seller and his P61 adapters ( Says he has two - one conversion unit and another replacement ).

I have encountered him.

Talks alot about being a big international supplier, says he is a retired engineer.

I asked him to tell me the first names of any one of the big 6 UK pen restorers he had supplied to.

The silence was deafening.

Enough said.

( Do I know all their first names - Yes )

nb - have used my Ultrasonic unit to clean 4 x P61 hoods - never had one even slight effected.

Read alot about replacing a P61 arrow - you have to use a very small amount of shellac adhesive and have a very precise hand.

[Chrissy]

Read alot about replacing a P61 arrow - you have to use a very small amount of shellac adhesive and have a very precise hand.

I have a very precise hand and I still found it impossible. I've seen some replaced ones and they have never been anywhere near to perfect. Perfection would be what I would require. Shellac would surely mean it would come off next time it went in the Ultrasonic?

[Farmboy]

Read alot about replacing a P61 arrow - you have to use a very small amount of shellac adhesive and have a very precise hand.

I have a very precise hand and I still found it impossible. I've seen some replaced ones and they have never been anywhere near to perfect. Perfection would be what I would require. Shellac would surely mean it would come off next time it went in the Ultrasonic?

Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

[grainweevil]

I asked him to tell me the first names of any one of the big 6 UK pen restorers he had supplied to.

Who are the big six pen restorers in the UK?

[proteus]

A great many thanks for your replies.

I will comment on the following in this fashion if I may.

I have a very precise hand and I still found it impossible. I've seen some replaced ones and they have never been anywhere near to perfect. Perfection would be what I would require. Shellac would surely mean it would come off next time it went in the Ultrasonic?

Firstly you have to have an original P61 arrow.
Shellac ( not sure what form you would wish to use )
It is a perfect seal – not affected by an ultrasonic bath at all.
I have assumed you have offer up to a perfectly clean arrow insert


Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

Wise words, I never thought of that – clever application with the tooth pick.
In my humble opinion I am sure it will work perfectly


Who are the big six pen restorers in the UK?

Two are very easy to find if you use the net to look :

Peter is a prickly chap, not greedy but just not precise enough for me. ( seen his work )

I will not name this chap ( he is very private ) runs a pen business in London and has diversified his business alot, possibly not for the best.

Another is an ebay seller, his name is Barry, lives in Kent

The other 3 are never visible – you have to have been about for at least 20 years collecting Parker pens in the UK to know who they are.

I have never used any pen restorer ever, only because I have only ever collected NOS or Mint, there was never a need to.

So how do I know of these UK restorers ?

Just do, I would like to leave it at that if I may.

[Chrissy]

Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

I tried that. My arrow would not go into the recess, no way, no how. It just wanted to sit on top of it. I didn't consider it good enough. :(
I think Parker used some sort of a mould that squished the sides and the end in slightly, then placed it in the recess and let it go so that it grabs all around it. I couldn't reproduce that, and therefore couldn't make it perfect. :(

[grainweevil]

Who are the big six pen restorers in the UK?

Two are very easy to find if you use the net to look :

Peter is a prickly chap, not greedy but just not precise enough for me. ( seen his work )

I will not name this chap ( he is very private ) runs a pen business in London and has diversified his business alot, possibly not for the best.

Another is an ebay seller, his name is Barry, lives in Kent

The other 3 are never visible – you have to have been about for at least 20 years collecting Parker pens in the UK to know who they are.

I have never used any pen restorer ever, only because I have only ever collected NOS or Mint, there was never a need to.

So how do I know of these UK restorers ?

Just do, I would like to leave it at that if I may.

You know I should have bet money on a reply like that. I swear the majority of FP artisans in the UK must be under witness protection or something, they're so damn publicity shy...

So just out of interest, how d'you know the Ebay seller wasn't also protecting these folks' identities? I mean, how would he know you weren't fishing like I was? ;)

[Farmboy]

Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

I tried that. My arrow would not go into the recess, no way, no how. It just wanted to sit on top of it. I didn't consider it good enough. :(
I think Parker used some sort of a mould that squished the sides and the end in slightly, then placed it in the recess and let it go so that it grabs all around it. I couldn't reproduce that, and therefore couldn't make it perfect. :(

The hood was shrunk.

[proteus]

Chrissy,

Can you tell me please what hood ( Mk 1 , 2 or 3 ) you wish the arrow to.

It is arrow gold or silver

Are 100% sure the arrow is the same as the hood ? ( Mk I 2 3 )

They vary.

Have another look at the arrow edges again at 10x mag - is it very very slightly lipped or totally flat.

( Have taken for granted it is perfect )

Photography please of both.

[Hawk]

Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

I tried that. My arrow would not go into the recess, no way, no how. It just wanted to sit on top of it. I didn't consider it good enough. :(
I think Parker used some sort of a mould that squished the sides and the end in slightly, then placed it in the recess and let it go so that it grabs all around it. I couldn't reproduce that, and therefore couldn't make it perfect. :(

Chrissy, I agree. I have had the same luck as you. If one looks closely, one can see the sides and end squished near the surface of thechood.

[Chrissy]

Use a single dot of 24 hour epoxy placed with a tooth pick in the recess push on the arrow and walk away.

Other option is to use a heat activated cement though that can be messy.

I tried that. My arrow would not go into the recess, no way, no how. It just wanted to sit on top of it. I didn't consider it good enough. :(
I think Parker used some sort of a mould that squished the sides and the end in slightly, then placed it in the recess and let it go so that it grabs all around it. I couldn't reproduce that, and therefore couldn't make it perfect. :(

The hood was shrunk.
Either that or the arrow was too big. The hood was fine on the pen and inside the cap. I gave up and sold it on eBay.

[Chrissy]

Chrissy,

Can you tell me please what hood ( Mk 1 , 2 or 3 ) you wish the arrow to.

It is arrow gold or silver

Are 100% sure the arrow is the same as the hood ? ( Mk I 2 3 )

They vary.

Have another look at the arrow edges again at 10x mag - is it very very slightly lipped or totally flat.

( Have taken for granted it is perfect )

Photography please of both.
I no longer have the pen, and I don't know enough about Parker 61 pens. I remember it had a capillary filler and it was turquoise with a rainbow cap. The original arrow would have been gold, but someone kindly sent me one for free, that was steel. Maybe that was the problem. That arrow was never going to fit into that insert. So I gave up and sold it without an arrow.

[proteus]

Chrissy,

Sad to hear you gave up on it all.

I know how frustating pens can be.
Spent alot of time collecting.

When I was your age ( 23 ) I too just wanted a solution and if it was not there I would always walk away.

Now that I am very old, stupid and stubborn - I never give up on anything ever.

[proteus]

Just re read this post of mine.

Have moved on a little since.

I used this post as a vehicle to get an introduction to someone I wanted to meet ( at the time 2000+ views, that which was my target )

In late October 2017 I had a chance to spend a few days with possibly the best Parker pen restorer in the UK, some would say the world

It was an unusual encounter - like going back in time 40 years.

Can post more if anyone is interested

[Joseph H]

I would be interested, thank you. Joseph.

[Cob]

I have a Parker 61 capillary here in lovely condition that doesn't work. It has been in the US cleaner soaked flushed with water and ammonia solution and it still doesn't bloody-well work. I hate it!

It fills beautifully if a rubber bulb be used on the end of the capillary unit - holds lots of ink that way, so clearly there is no blockage but the capillary system picks up only a few drops.

I hate it!

Rgds

Cob

[proteus]

Cob,

Sorry for the delayed reply.

The short answer is - Your feed is broken ( snapped in half )

If you wish to repair it into a working pen, simply replace the feed with a working one.

( No one uses an ammonia solution anymore, it was never necessary, warm tap water is just fine )

[Cob]

Cob,

Sorry for the delayed reply.

The short answer is - Your feed is broken ( snapped in half )

If you wish to repair it into a working pen, simply replace the feed with a working one.

( No one uses an ammonia solution anymore, it was never necessary, warm tap water is just fine )

Thank you for your reply and for the helpful exploded photo.

Well I use ammonia - essential for the old pens I work on with forty years+ of encrusted ink on nibs & feeds. essential.

Turning to the awful Parker 61: I don't understand; how can an internal part be "snapped" when the pen is in perfect condition? Worse I now have two more of these things, "De luxe" ones, this time both missing their arrows. Believe me I did not buy these deliberately, they came with others in an auction lot. One of them after flushing, is the same as the first - doesn't work; the second is practically fully blocked and is headed for the ammonia, as an hour in the US cleaner and numerous attempts at flushing have had no effect.

I am most underwhelmed by the 61: as far as I am concerned, it is another Parker dud - like the accursed Vacumatic, another horrible design! As an off-topic aside, if PArker wanted to make a bulb filler (which is what the Vac is) they should have looked at National Security's Auto-Tank or the lovely Waterman's Ink-Vue, both superior applications of the same principle.

I feel that most likely I shall put the three of them up on ebay as spares or repair since I have wasted more than enough time on the beastly things. They are all in lovely condition otherwise, apart from two missing arrows - another dud feature!

In closing, I would add that I think Parker's development of this system was resourceful and clever; just impractical. The fact that Parker gave up and produced Aerometric 61s speaks volumes as far as I am concerned. They had produced a pen that was supposed to be very simple to use but which clearly required a lot of maintenance which to my mind lacked understanding of the market.

Best wishes and thanks again

Cob

[Chrissy]

Chrissy,

Sad to hear you gave up on it all.

I know how frustating pens can be.
Spent alot of time collecting.

When I was your age ( 23 ) I too just wanted a solution and if it was not there I would always walk away.

Now that I am very old, stupid and stubborn - I never give up on anything ever.

I just came back to this thread and almost fell off of my chair when I read this reply. Actually, I was 23 once, but I'm so old now that I can't remember it. :(

[Chrissy]

AFAIC I would never want to own a capillary filling 61. If I could have a nice one with a converter, I might consider it. :)

I prefer to change the ink colours in my pens frequently, and in a Parker 61 capillary, it's just too much of an effort. :(

[Deb]

I doubt if I was ever 23. If I ever was, it was when 61s were but a twinkle in Mr. Parker's eye.

[proteus]

Cob

Just looked at your last reply.

................and I thought I would get away cleanly with a short answer and just move on.


__________________________________________________ _______________________


I'm going on down to Yasgur's farm…..

Janis Joplin

1969

[Cob]

Cob

Just looked at your last reply.

................and I thought I would get away cleanly with a short answer and just move on.


__________________________________________________ _______________________


I'm going on down to Yasgur's farm…..

Janis Joplin

1969

That's fine.

Those horrid pens are moving on too...

Cob

[proteus]

Deb,

Just looked at your website.

........still picking my jaw up off the ground.

Impressive stuff

[Deb]

Deb,

Just looked at your website.

........still picking my jaw up off the ground.

Impressive stuff



Thank you kindly. I hope you enjoy it.

[Farmboy]

Some images of Don Doman's prototypes for the P61.

If anyone is interested.

As for the UK ebay seller - tracked him down with some help from others. ( spent alot of time on this this evening - just wanted an answer )
The seller was not a conduit, sad to say he is someone who had access to Newhaven archives..........was also a pen author - how sad.

I seem to have missed your post. The pen you show was a Janesville product. It's history and location are pretty well known.

[proteus]

Whilst I understand that all comments are subjective

Have thought alot today about saying something -

Writing with a fountain pen is a very personal thing.

It is an extension of your hand to write the written word.

Whatever pen you use is always going to be personal preference.

Over a great many years I have had the great privilege to write with any pen I wished.

One pen has always stood out for me.

It has supreme style and class, an engineering masterpiece ( Don Doman 1954/5 )

The Parker 61 Capillary ( Newhaven 1963 – 1975 ) most commonly called a Newhaven Mark II

Over the years I have owned about 60 of them, most were mint, perfect ( even had NOS Uninked )

Recently I have restored about 30 of them, mainly as a exercise, see what I am able to do. Have sort help and have be lucky enough to get assistance from a pen magician who I have spent a few days with.

They are a bit like a ride in 1973 Ferrari GTS ( Magnum PI’s car ), when new / fully restored they are magnificent, when you get out of the car at the end of the ride you walk about 3 feet off the ground for the at least a hour.
If you ever drive a neglected one that is a total pig, you wonder what all the fuss is about.

[proteus]

Farmboy,

A great many thanks for your comments.

You are vastly more informed than I

I seem to have missed your post. The pen you show was a Janesville product. It's history and location are pretty well known.

Can you tell me how many of these prototypes were made.

I know where one is, perhaps you can tell where the other one(s) are

[Farmboy]

May have owned or handled around a dozen of the marked pens from this series, all different in some way. Unfortunately no pictures at this time. Some crazy stuff.

I'll try to get pictures but may not be able to do so quickly.

[proteus]

May have owned or handled around a dozen of the marked pens from this series, all different in some way. Unfortunately no pictures at this time. Some crazy stuff.

I'll try to get pictures but may not be able to do so quickly.

Farmboy

You have to correct me, if I am wrong, please.

There were only never 7 of these types of Doman 61 prototypes made in early 1953.

All these came from the Janesville archives.

4 were sold on ebay UK last year.

All when to 4 different UK private buyers.

I know there was a prototype of the final release pen ( the finished product ) – the same as the first pen, never seen or heard of anyone who has ever seen it. My guess it was never kept, it was just lost because after the first run it was very little importance.

The pens that you have seen are most possibly ‘ pilot runs ‘ – market test pens from June 1953

( I did ask one of the ‘elite’ internet forum members, whom I do not know, to post a small piece on the Parker 61, he never replied. That was over a year ago. I could have been critical of his opus on Sheaffers but have chosen not to be )

[proteus]

As there were no new posts here on the Parker section.

I just re read this post of mine - all 4 pages.

Am not now the same collector I was when I started it a while back.

If anyone has any questions about restoring / repairing Parker 61’s please ask, I am all ears.

I now think I can run with the very best on any Parker restoration techniques.
Possible any post 1949 Parker fountain pen or pencil ( except Duofold's - sorry was never a fan of this pen )

YOU WILL NEED TO OPEN A NEW POST with your question.
Please do not ask it here.

[Herry]

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