Waterman taperite questions

[Linkinyeah]

I bought this pen for what I thought was a good deal, the seller claimed it was new old stock and never been used. It was so beautiful when I received it and it really didn't look like it ever had been used but the sac must have been deteriorated because it would not hold water. So I tried using a blow dryer to loosen the section, and I know I shouldn't have but man I wanted to use this pen. This caused the barrel to shrink around the section, which you can somewhat tell in the picture. I sent the pen off to my repairman and he returned it saying he was afraid he would break it due to the shrinkage. Now I have this pen that I can do nothing with. Anybody in the community have ideas? I would love to possibly remove the barrel and even get a new barrel if necessary. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/8c3bf2b29d6ce98bf19051982ac864ec.jpg

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[pajaro]

I have smoked holes in the barrels of two Waterman pens by using too much heat. I have drawn the conclusion, perhaps erroneous, that these Waterman barrels are easy to ruin, and you should be extra cautions with them. You know though, if you are regarding this pen as hopeless, why not use cautious application of heat to unstick the section for restoration? Then, after restoring, possibly try a little cautious application of heat from a hair dryer to the barrel, to see if the shape will come back. Or not, because I think it's risky. Perhaps someone else will weigh in with more experience.

My pen like this is gray, and the section fits in snugly, but can we worked loose by hand. It is a good writer.

[Jon Szanto]

Well, from my limited experience, you've got one of the riskiest pens to work on that I know of.

Even if you had not shrunk the barrel (which complicates the matter), these are a huge pain. The main problem is that some manner of adhesive was used for the sections, or at least was used in many situations. It does NOT release with heat like shellac would. I have had a total of four of these over the years: one section removed easily and I restored it, two had parts of the barrel break off, still attached to the section and not fixable, and one so brittle that the barrel crushed in my hand as I was trying to pull the section. That last one was with a pen that I took more than a week of gentle action, hoping patience and not forcing the issue would help, only to have the pen disintegrate. I gave up on all Taperites at that point, and many repair people won't work on them.

1 for 4 is a terrible record and I really can't offer any tips, as there was no reproducible manner that made this work. Spend some time searching the web for any possible positive tips, and maybe write to a repair person or two on the hopes you might find someone to work on it. Just a tough pen to try to bring back to life, I'm afraid.

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

I have two of these. One is Canadian and came apart easily. The US pen shattered. As others said, it was glued, and the piece of the section that goes inside the barrel was oddly shaped. I honestly don't know how I could have opened it without breaking it.

[Deb]

The part of the section that goes into the barrel is grooved, the better to hold whatever adhesive is applied. In my experience though the Canadian and English ones can be a little difficult they generally come apart without damage. From what others have said it seems to be the US ones that are glued with something impossible to remove. It's a pity because Taperites are great pens and some of them show a degree of flexibility.

[Jon Szanto]

The part of the section that goes into the barrel is grooved, the better to hold whatever adhesive is applied. In my experience though the Canadian and English ones can be a little difficult they generally come apart without damage. From what others have said it seems to be the US ones that are glued with something impossible to remove. It's a pity because Taperites are great pens and some of them show a degree of flexibility.

Dang, that's true - the one Taperite that I successfully restored was a Canadian model!

[pajaro]

That's a lot of useful information. It appears there's no point in applying heat, because it will shrink Taperite plastic, and what is possible with Lucite (Parker 51), reheating distortions to make them resume original shape, will not work here. Perhaps the OP should just try buying a restored pen. I didn't pay much for the one I bought.

I have some items that are just collectibles and not functioning pens, because they can't be fixed due to unavailability of parts or lack of skill. Sometimes the pen has resisted repair. From some disasters I have gleaned spare parts, like flexible 14K nibs to put into Waterman Laureats that had corroded steel nibs (gold plated).

[rcburgin]

I bought this pen for what I thought was a good deal, the seller claimed it was new old stock and never been used. It was so beautiful when I received it and it really didn't look like it ever had been used but the sac must have been deteriorated because it would not hold water. So I tried using a blow dryer to loosen the section, and I know I shouldn't have but man I wanted to use this pen. This caused the barrel to shrink around the section, which you can somewhat tell in the picture. I sent the pen off to my repairman and he returned it saying he was afraid he would break it due to the shrinkage. Now I have this pen that I can do nothing with. Anybody in the community have ideas? I would love to possibly remove the barrel and even get a new barrel if necessary. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/8c3bf2b29d6ce98bf19051982ac864ec.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6 using TapatalkWhen you "water tested" the sac, was there any sign of ink? If so, the ink could be contributing to the adhesive action between the section and the barrel. Soaking the pen in water, maybe over night should help, or better yet, use an ultrasonic cleaner multiple times if you have one. Try reheating being careful to not overheat the "sunk in" area. Heat multiple times and gently attempt to twist the barrel from the section each time. I think it will eventually start to loosen.
If you're successful, you can remove the dried sac debris from the barrel. If you have "gage pins" (pins sized every .001 of an inch), or using the blunt end of drill bits, try warming the open (damaged) end of the barrel and gently inserting the pins, larger as you go, until you have brought it up to size. With a little buffing, you may have it looking as good as new! Good luck!

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[Linkinyeah]

I don't have a ultrasonic cleaner, but I will try soaking. One of the posts above this suggested that heat will not do anything to help release the adhesive.

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[Jon Szanto]

Try reheating being careful to not overheat the "sunk in" area. Heat multiple times and gently attempt to twist the barrel from the section each time. I think it will eventually start to loosen.

That makes sense with most pens. However, at least for the Tapes that were made in the US, the adhesive used does NOT respond to heat. It is not like a shellac, but more like a glue that has bonded two pieces of plastic together. A very frustrating task.

[pajaro]

Does anyone know if there is a solvent for the adhesive that won't damage the pen's plastic? Water? Alcohol?

[Jon Szanto]

Does anyone know if there is a solvent for the adhesive that won't damage the pen's plastic? Water? Alcohol?

I'm not certain that is the right diagnosis. From my experience it isn't as much an adhesive as it is a bonding agent, in the way that epoxies are. I believe some of the plastic gets melted in the process and bonds, and that isn't the kind of bonding that can be dissolved. Think of how many of the chemical bonding agents do their work by 'melting' surrounding material and then hardening up.

I could be very wrong, but this ain't glue. It is all compounded by the unfortunate reality that the plastic is very thin and brittle, as well. BTW, I have pieces from the broken pens where I can see the chunks of section and barrel fused, and you can't get them apart.

[KrazyIvan]

Raises hand 🖐️. I shattered mine.

[Jon Szanto]

Raises hand 🖐️. I shattered mine.

I'm sorry to say, I actually saved that photo of yours.

The Taperite pens hold my personal record for shortest amount of time to destruction: I actually got one in the mail, took it out of the box and decided to wiggle the section. Not as in force it, but just see if there was any looseness at all. In under 30 seconds after opening the box, I had two pieces in my hand where one had started. I simply stared in disbelief.

[KrazyIvan]

Raises hand 🖐️. I shattered mine.

I'm sorry to say, I actually saved that photo of yours.

The Taperite pens hold my personal record for shortest amount of time to destruction: I actually got one in the mail, took it out of the box and decided to wiggle the section. Not as in force it, but just see if there was any looseness at all. In under 30 seconds after opening the box, I had two pieces in my hand where one had started. I simply stared in disbelief.

In an odd way, I actually feel honored that you would save my picture. :D I think you may have a record that is not just personal. :p

[pajaro]

I have to wonder why Waterman would use the adhesive they did use on the US pens. They had to know the section would have to come apart from the barrel to resac the pen. Or were these pens seen as disposable?

[titrisol]

I have one of these, and while it is a lovely pen, the sac lasted exactly 2 loads of ink before it began glorping....
I keep it as a collectible until I find the time and patience

[Deb]

I have to wonder why Waterman would use the adhesive they did use on the US pens. They had to know the section would have to come apart from the barrel to resac the pen. Or were these pens seen as disposable?

I believe they started using adhesive on pens because they decided to work with looser tolerances to save cost. It's cheaper to use glue than to make an exactly right friction fit. Perhaps they and their repairers had a method of getting those pens apart for servicing.

[pajaro]

Lavabo inter innocentes manus meas.

[rcburgin]

I don't have a ultrasonic cleaner, but I will try soaking. One of the posts above this suggested that heat will not do anything to help release the adhesive.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using TapatalkI'm hoping the adhesive is, as I've found in times past, just a surface type adhesive. In other words, it doesn't soften the surface like MEK does to a number of modern composite materials, or like PVC Cement does to PVC pipe. That said, you have a great looking pen and taking the slow gentle approach will be required when applying heat. Concentrate the heat as much as possible on just the area of the barrel that's engaged with the section. Once you've warmed that area, quickly grip it with rubber lined plier, or (less desirable) roll it between two pieces of clean soft pine wood. As you warm the barrel, it expands and the section stays the same size. Using the rubber lined piers, keep gripping and rotating barrel until it cools. Continue the heating and gripping process checking frequently to see if the section has loosened. If section starts to pick up heat, which you'll be able to feal, stop and let it cool. I have done this process sometimes for an hour more, so determination is needed. The heat IMHO loosens the "grip" of the adhesive. The adhesives that I've found are "hard" and the repeated gentle "squeeze" of the plier tends to break it down. I hope this helps save your nice pen!

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[Linkinyeah]

Well I have fell guilty of shattering a pen as well. I appreciate everyones advice. I am now certain that unless I find a taperite that has already been resaced, I am going to steer away. I am now in search of a replacement barrel, which I am sure others have found out, this is easier said than done. I will probably just have to hold onto the pieces until something comes around. I have seen other posts where people have been able to use the section in the barrel of a cheap Jinhao. Maybe someday I will try this route, but don't own one now. I have seen lots of taperite barrels for sale on Ebay. But these are the kind that has threads on the end. If anyone has a spare barrel please let me know, at this point I am not worried about color.

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[Jon Szanto]

I'm hoping the adhesive is, as I've found in times past, just a surface type adhesive.

Referencing the bolded part: are you speaking specifically of Taperites, or pens in general? Because the consensus is, and as I have found, that these pens did not get assembled using a release-type bond. I may have to go into the garage to look for the box that has the remnants and abandoned efforts, but IIRC you could see that the material had been softened, as you imply above, to create the adhesion. Very bad move.

[Jon Szanto]

Argh. Ok, I found the box! :D I can't do macros with my phone, so these are a couple of quick shots with an inexpensive USB microscope. The first two are the section, showing the nipple and portion that slides inside barrel, ending with the clutch ring. (I've altered the second image simply to highlight the artifacts)

What you should notice is that to the left is the area where the sac was attached, and you can see the granular nature of the shellac that has crystallized and broken up as the sac remnants were removed; you can still chip this off with just your fingernail. To the right is the place where the section was glued into the barrel; removing this section caused a chunk of the barrel to break off and remain stuck to the section. In the photo the pieces of the section have been mostly removed, but you'll notice that in having to use an X-acto knife, the smooth nature of the glue used here is quite different from the shellac, and the barrel and section plastics were fused together, the way (for me) plastic model car and airplane parts became fused when using model glue as a kid (and probably knocking off a few brain cells along the way).

As long as I had it set up, I took a pick of the nib, which is a nice, semi-flexible point. I'm hoping some day to smooth out the section area and find a barrel that is about right, or have one turned. The original, of course, is a lost cause.



http://i.imgur.com/pxIhjX9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/N5Qgujx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0eTdTTW.jpg

[Wade]

I don't have a ultrasonic cleaner, but I will try soaking. One of the posts above this suggested that heat will not do anything to help release the adhesive.

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Strongly encourage you to get one... no need at all to spend a fortune, mine was around $20 on Amazon, does the job just fine.