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Paddler
November 4th, 2017, 02:54 PM
For years, I have been badgering some vets I know to write down their experiences in the US military. I have been writing mine and sent a few examples to the other vets. It is starting to pay off.

One guy was aboard an aircraft carrier in the Pacific in WW II. He dictated his stories into a digital recorder and one of his grand daughters transcribed them to her computer and printed them on paper, as well as saving them other ways digitally.

One guy was a musician in the special services in Korea. He types his stories into his computer and sends them to me. I print them and keep them in a binder.

Another guy was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. He has promised to print them as they are written.

Me, I was a cold warrior. My stories are not very exciting but, dammit, I am writing them anyway!

You other vets out there: write 'em down and get 'em on paper. Time's a-wastin' !!!!

Brilliant Bill
November 5th, 2017, 09:55 AM
Other than continuing glorification of militarism and war, I see no point in this.

We're turning veterans into a fetish in this country, and I'm sick of it. I refuse to participate in your fetish.

SIR
November 5th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Pardon my thug poetry, but suckers is born everyday
And feared men grow on trees (https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/tradinwarstories.html)

oh, wait...

Deb
November 5th, 2017, 10:17 AM
Other than continuing glorification of militarism and war, I see no point in this.

We're turning veterans into a fetish in this country, and I'm sick of it. I refuse to participate in your fetish.

I think that's rather unpleasant. War has been part of human history since the beginning of time. Turning your back on it won't make it go away. Recounting what happened isn't necessarily "glorification of militarism and war".

VertOlive
November 5th, 2017, 06:11 PM
We had the honor and privilege of providing the funeral for a WWll Marine veteran. He was awarded the Bronze Star and was part of the famed "Lost Battalion" which remained on active duty for three straight years and fought in every battle of the Pacific.

Then he came home, got married, raised his kids, and worked his farm.

We buried him with a full Marine Honor Guard and, though our profession does not allow us to cry on duty, I let the wind in the Texas cemetery dry a couple heartfelt tears.

VertOlive
November 5th, 2017, 06:14 PM
Other than continuing glorification of militarism and war, I see no point in this.

We're turning veterans into a fetish in this country, and I'm sick of it. I refuse to participate in your fetish.

Then please move on.

But this saying strikes me: "No one likes a soldier until the enemy is at the gates".

VertOlive
November 5th, 2017, 06:23 PM
Pardon my thug poetry, but suckers is born everyday
And feared men grow on trees (https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/tradinwarstories.html)

oh, wait...

So. 2pac. Your point?

Paddler
November 5th, 2017, 07:06 PM
I was a reluctant soldier but, in my search for the "whichness of the why", I found that:

The anti-war people got their facts from the hose on a bong.
The pro-war people got their facts from the official government propaganda.
The press manufactured their facts wholesale. (I have proof)

I decided to allow myself to be drafted and to fight for freedom. My freedom. If someone else's freedom came along for the ride, so be it and good luck to them. Now, I can demand my freedom because I fought for it. Think what you want; I refuse to hide.

SIR
November 6th, 2017, 03:00 AM
Pardon my thug poetry, but suckers is born everyday
And feared men grow on trees (https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/tradinwarstories.html)

oh, wait...

So. 2pac. Your point?

I think the Swiss have the right idea - gun ownership should be compulsory (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Switzerland). But then, they actually have one of the few true democracies (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy) in the world...

I, personally, don't have any problem with people who choose to serve in a professional armed forces, however, i raise an eyebrow at some of the oaths of allegiance; the only reason one should be committing to using lethal force against another human and obeying lawfully given orders should be for the protection of the people and the rule of law - 'god', the Queen or other unelected/elected 'leader' (why do we need/want those, anyway?!), or a concept of state/flag (except, perhaps, the UN) have no relevance and should be ignored with extreme prejudice.

More evidence that compulsory gun ownership is a good thing - Kennesaw, Georgia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia)

Stickler
November 6th, 2017, 04:14 PM
I retired as a Navy Combat Camera photojournalist and lived at the tip of the spear. I told the service members' story for two decades. After that worked 2 years as managing editor for a magazine that helped military transition to civilians. Then a decade working at the VA helping Veterans get care. I am not working with the Air Force to keep our service members healthy and safe.

A soldier's story is not glorifying war or militarism. Telling the stories of politicians and war does that. The story of a soldier/sailor is one as old as time. The story of someone pressed into service by their government or condition. From the Mesopotamian to the Canadian, civilization has relied on the common soldier to pave the success of any society with the blood, sweat and tears of the soldier. And while the reasons for putting on a uniform varies, once you are in that brotherhood-- the only thing that matters is survival.

Only a person who has never been in the suck would call a soldier's story glorification. Their thanks is often a hand shake until you become a constant reminder to those who didn't sacrifice. When the soldier asks for help because they gave up their body, mind, soul, career, and family to keep everyone at home comfortable and away from such grotesqueness-- the answer is to call them freeloaders and deny them.

No veterans that served in combat wants to be treated special. There is nothing they want in their dreams that would be worth that. But their stories are important. Their sacrifice should be noted and shared.

VertOlive
November 6th, 2017, 08:57 PM
Another veteran buried today: Army Air Corp during WWII. Served as gunner and mechanic on a B17 throughout the war. Came home and started "Chuck' s Garage", married, and lived long and long. Never left Deaf Smith County again. He died at home at 93 years old, and we buried him with an Honor Guard to present the Flag to his widow.

calamum
April 18th, 2018, 05:19 PM
After the Vietnam war, returning veterans were greeted by cries of "Baby killers!" and were spat upon in the streets by the "love generation."

VertOlive
April 28th, 2018, 03:33 PM
We buried a Vietnam Vet this week. He died one year to the date he lost his wife.

He was also a County Sheriff. The Sheriff's Dept turned out for a full escort and the Veteran's Honor Guard came and presented the flag to his family.

Rest in Peace, John.

The Paranoid Nudnik
April 29th, 2018, 05:39 AM
I was a reluctant soldier but, in my search for the "whichness of the why", I found that:

The anti-war people got their facts from the hose on a bong.
The pro-war people got their facts from the official government propaganda.
The press manufactured their facts wholesale. (I have proof)

I decided to allow myself to be drafted and to fight for freedom. My freedom. If someone else's freedom came along for the ride, so be it and good luck to them. Now, I can demand my freedom because I fought for it. Think what you want; I refuse to hide.

One of the most beautiful things I have ever read.

Thank you Paddler

Empty_of_Clouds
April 29th, 2018, 05:54 AM
Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday,
We had daily cleaning. And tomorrow morning,
We shall have what to do after firing. But today,
Today we have naming of parts. Japonica
Glistens like coral in all the neighboring gardens,
And today we have naming of parts.

This is the lower sling swivel. And this
Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
Which in your case you have not got. The branches
Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
Which in our case we have not got.

This is the safety-catch, which is always released
With an easy flick of the thumb. And please do not let me
See anyone using his finger. You can do it quite easy
If you have any strength in your thumb. The blossoms
Are fragile and motionless, never letting anyone see
Any of them using their finger.

And this you can see is the bolt. The purpose of this
Is to open the breech, as you see. We can slide it
Rapidly backwards and forwards: we call this
Easing the spring. And rapidly backwards and forwards
The early bees are assaulting and fumbling the flowers:
They call it easing the Spring.

They call it easing the Spring: it is perfectly easy
If you have any strength in your thumb: like the bolt,
And the breech, the cocking-piece, and the point of balance,
Which in our case we have not got; and the almond blossom
Silent in all of the gardens and the bees going backwards and forwards,
For today we have the naming of parts.

Henry Reed.


It is only men who find the reasons for war and will to pursue it.

Stickler
April 29th, 2018, 01:21 PM
Other than continuing glorification of militarism and war, I see no point in this.

We're turning veterans into a fetish in this country, and I'm sick of it. I refuse to participate in your fetish.

You have the right to feel that way because of the military. It is like saying you are sick of supporting the police or the fire department. They serve a purpose and they are manned by citizens who put their lives on the line. There is nothing fetish about honoring those who sacrifice.

calamum
April 30th, 2018, 10:59 AM
It is only men who find the reasons for war and will to pursue it.

It was common in Native American culture for women as a group to publicly ridicule men who didn't show sufficient warrior spirit to go to war. So please spare us the feminist polemics.

Empty_of_Clouds
April 30th, 2018, 11:55 AM
It was a generalisation..

So, please spare us your lack of statistical understanding.




ps. in case you're wondering, I am an ex-serviceman

SIR
April 30th, 2018, 12:21 PM
It is only men who find the reasons for war and will to pursue it.

Only?? nope, not even... Tomyris, Boudicca, Zenobia, Dido, never mind the countless serving voluntarily in the various armed forces of the modern world.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Penthesilea_as_one_of_the_Nine_Female_Worthie.jpg/220px-Penthesilea_as_one_of_the_Nine_Female_Worthie.jpg

Empty_of_Clouds
April 30th, 2018, 01:24 PM
Bring me any argument you like, on almost any subject, and I will find you some outliers that totally disprove it. :cheers:

If I say that the statement was made by someone very well-informed on war and highly thought of and revered globally, there would be less likelihood of someone picking at it. Human nature I guess.

calamum
April 30th, 2018, 05:06 PM
It was a generalisation..

So, please spare us your lack of statistical understanding.




ps. in case you're wondering, I am an ex-serviceman


It was bull puckey and feminist polemics. A profound grasp of statistical analysis doesn't enter into it.
I'm surprised you didn't manage to work "toxic masculinity" into your burblings.
And no, I wasn't wondering whether or not you'd served. But now that I know, thank you for your service.

Empty_of_Clouds
April 30th, 2018, 07:46 PM
I think you missed the point by quite a wide margin, and I did say it was a generalised statement. It was you who used the outlier argument to refute a statement that is likely more true than not. There's no need to get het up about it. Discussion is a two-way street not a shouting match.

I am not a feminist. I am not an anything-ist really. It was merely an observation based on history and human psychology. It's also not the last word, and neither is yours.


ps. I didn't serve your country, so no need for thanks. Sorry, should have made that clear earlier.

SIR
May 1st, 2018, 08:27 AM
Could just be that, for the majority of the past, most societies suffered from a patriarchal inbalance and therefore overlooked the awesome combat potential of the female?

calamum
May 1st, 2018, 09:51 AM
I think you missed the point by quite a wide margin, and I did say it was a generalised statement. It was you who used the outlier argument to refute a statement that is likely more true than not. There's no need to get het up about it. Discussion is a two-way street not a shouting match.

I am not a feminist. I am not an anything-ist really. It was merely an observation based on history and human psychology. It's also not the last word, and neither is yours.


ps. I didn't serve your country, so no need for thanks. Sorry, should have made that clear earlier.

You bolded "men." That suggests to me that the statement was significantly more than a mere observation.
I'm finding this exchange tedious. I would rather discuss fountain pens, inks, paper and such.
What country did you serve, if I might ask? A friendly, I hope! But then again, I suppose being true to one's own flag is what counts.

SIR
May 4th, 2018, 10:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONDoto9reCg

more about Rojava and direct-democracy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_KTvx8AnFU

pajaro
May 5th, 2018, 08:38 AM
I was a srudent pilot, an ICBM launch officer and a missile maintenance officer. Most of the things I remember are funny, but sume gave me nightmares for years. 1970 to 1974. Then I worked in IT for a city and a couple of companies after retiring. Hard to do nothing, but now I am ok with it.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 01:01 PM
Folks, this is a thread more for contributions relating to the lives of Veterans, less for the usual bickering. So here's another veteran's story for you:

Born 1906 to a west Texas sharecropper, one of 14 children, Mac chopped cotton in the Texas heat and tried to save his little sisters (also working the fields) from the hourly threat of snakebite. At sixteen his Dad ordered him to quit school and work the cotton full time like his brothers. He said "No more!" and moved to town, working and living in a service garage until he finished high school.

In 1923 he joined the Army, all those snakes he killed made him a crack shot and he taught marksmanship. He also served as a Medic, but spent most of his time as a second base man for the Army baseball team. After he served his term, he was recruited by the Washington Senators but ruined his knee in the car accident that killed his fiance after the first ball season.

He took a deep breath and he moved north, working as a morgue attendant and farming full time. When WWll came, he volunteered but was then too old for consideration. He added a second hospital job and thought it his contribution to the war effort. He lost that wife and children as well to another random tragedy.

He took a deep breath and moved north again. He ran a morgue and taught medical students, always thankful for the training he'd received in the Army. He taught young men marksmanship and encouraged them to serve in the armed force of their choice.

Nobody was killed, many young boys were nursed through meningitis and influenza or became marksmen themselves. He was a peace time patriot who served as he could and who was in turn served by his country.

Rest in Peace 1906 - 1984

Brilliant Bill
May 5th, 2018, 01:14 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

adhoc
May 5th, 2018, 01:23 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

Propaganda. :) Americans pat themselves on the back when they kill people around the world. There’s no money to be made in peace.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 01:40 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

You are always free to start this type of thread to proclaim their noteworthy service. Praising one type of contribution in a particular thread does not imply disdain for others. It's merely that the focus (and title) of this thread is the stories of War Veterans.

Wuddus
May 5th, 2018, 01:42 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

Easy fix. Start a thread.

One person asked for accounts from people who took one life path, you ask for accounts from different people who took a different life path. Simple. I'm sure the forum won't fall over from two different types of people from two different life paths discussing their experiences on two different threads.

Or am I missing the point here? Is there another reason why some people shouldn't be able to share their life experiences with others?

Everyone has a different tale to tell, and it's by listening to those who think differently from ourselves, and have experienced different things, that we grow wiser. If we only listen to those who think like us, and deny the others a voice, we don't just remain ignorant ourselves, but forcibly impose ignorance on others.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 01:45 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

Propaganda. :) Americans pat themselves on the back when they kill people around the world. There’s no money to be made in peace.

Friend, the stories I publish here from personal aquaintence and from the lives of those we bury at our funeral home are in no way propaganda. Nor did any of the men I was able to speak with congratulate themselves on the killing involved in a war. They acted as they saw fit and contributed to the security of their country. They were sincere in their belief of their cause which played out in the '40's in WWll.

adhoc
May 5th, 2018, 01:59 PM
Not a single american soldier has died in defense of his country in last 70 years. And yet, you’re running out of countries in this world that you haven’t been at war with during this time. Sorry if I don’t see these people as heroes.

calamus
May 5th, 2018, 02:11 PM
Why don't I see anyone seeking out the stories of Peace Corp Volunteers, VISTA veterans, people who tirelessly work homeless shelters and food kitchens and food banks and such? Why don't I see anyone fawning over them by thanking them for "their service"?

The hypocrisy scale rises high on this one.

(Sorry VertOlive... I thought I was done bickering, but this post is over-the-top and demands a reply.)

The online Merriam Webster gives two meanings for hypocrisy:

1. a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel
2. an act or instance of hypocrisy

This is a thread about veterans' combat-related experiences. To accuse people of hypocrisy because they've not gone off-topic and begun praising volunteers in soup kitchens and homeless shelters suggests you need to study English. In the timeless words of Inigo Montoya (the Mandy Patinkin character in The Princess Bride), "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

On second thought, I suppose that spitting on combat veterans isn't entirely off-topic.

Never mind.

adhoc
May 5th, 2018, 02:21 PM
Well title of the thread is war stories, so we can also start with stories of all the war crimes and disgusting acts american military complex does around the globe.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 02:26 PM
Well title of the thread is war stories, so we can also start with stories of all the war crimes and disgusting acts american military complex does around the globe.

Excellent. Please do start your own thread. We generally encourage the free exchange of ideas here, my friend.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 02:31 PM
Sorry if I don’t see these people as heroes.

Fine by me that you personally believe this. But why come to a thread about war veterans and spew venom? This wasn't started as a political thread, but as a personal memorial offering. Do you have something positive to offer us?

adhoc
May 5th, 2018, 03:43 PM
No, nothing positive about American war veterans, no. The only reason you're not judged as war criminals is because nobody can enforce it upon you. High ground to celebrate you got there.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 04:03 PM
No, nothing positive about American war veterans, no.

Well I can help you there, my friend. This Texas county is exceptionally well populated with living WWII veterans who are passing on at a great rate of speed, given their long lives. I'll try to post more often here to share their stories.

adhoc
May 5th, 2018, 04:05 PM
You’re right. Let’s celebrate how america managed to take away from afghan kids pretty much the only thing they had; a view at the sky without being terrified. Here’s a nice report: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K4NRJoCNHIs

But hey, this is ok, because they’re not americans so fuck those kids, right? They should die for freedom of americans ... in Afghanistan?

Or should we celebrate how usa nuked a country twice that had over 70 cities in ruins AFTER they already asked for peace a dozen times?

Or whose deaths shall we celebrate? Vietnam? A dozen countries in the middle east? Serbia?

You turned war into a business. This is a forum, a place to exchange ideas. Here’s an idea: stop fetishizing deaths of millions you’ve killed.

VertOlive
May 5th, 2018, 04:24 PM
Paul now comes to mind. Our funeral home sponsored a high school ROTC student to attend the Memorial Bataan Death March. It's a course similar to what the original soldiers walked and a fundraiser for ROTC, attended by young people, veterans, etc.

Our young man walked awhile with a sturdy old vet who had survived the March himself. After hearing Paul's story, he reflected on his own abilities and resiliency and decided to redouble his efforts in school and in his ROTC unit. This kid was considered to be high risk for dropping out but now has college plans.

We picked Paul up at his home this winter and gave him a loving and honorable Veteran's funeral. As we would for anyone who comes under our care. The boy spoke of his gratitude to him for who he was as part of the eulogy.

Rest in peace, Paul. 1922 - 2018

pajaro
May 5th, 2018, 05:31 PM
Well title of the thread is war stories, so we can also start with stories of all the war crimes and disgusting acts american military complex does around the globe.

What about your own country's veterans? Why run another country down? The USA has stood beside allies and friendly nations. I have served it. Your complaints sound like the 1960s ones made by people too young and naïve to understand the score. Did you enjoy being under the Soviet boot? Thank Reagan and the vets who pulled alerts in missile silos, submarines and bombers. They outlasted the USSR.

adhoc
May 6th, 2018, 12:47 AM
We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country. Probably Slovakia.

USA has done A LOT of good in this world. More than bad, probably. I’d just rather cherish that.

I have zero sympathy for our war veterans, since they’re all communists. But we, as a country, have never ever in our history been the aggressor.

Stickler
May 6th, 2018, 02:41 AM
I find it interesting that most of these conversations are being had by those who did not serve. I did. I was part of the Cold War, both Gulf Wars, Bosnia, and others.

1. The soldier does not choose where they serve, but their service is one that they see as honorable and a sword and sheild to protect the nation and its people. YOU don't have to agree with the political reason but that is not the soldier who decides to leave when they disagree.
2. Not fighting a war on your own soil does not mean that you are not defending your country. WWI and WWII were not faught in the US, but their national interests and the protection of America were closely tied to a free Europe and Asia. The Gulf Wars involved global politics and global economies (sorry, oil IS important currently just like food).
3. To say that we have never been an aggressor, I would disagree. Let us start with the French-Indian War, Tripoli, Civil War, War Against the Indian, the invasion into Mexico, Spanish-American War, and Iraq.

Those who serve should be honored. Not because of the wars they didn't choose to fight in, but because they gave up their freedom of choice with the belief that you should have your freedoms protected. They accept that their blood and breath are possibly sacrificial for the community. Even more today-- that their lives when they return will be battered and broken (physically and mentally). Those stories should not be recorded to say killing is great. Anyone who says anything glorious about war has never spent a day in the suck. No war veteran will ever tell that story. We keep those stories to know the costs that are needed to be a nation. We honor the sacrifice. We see the fear, sadness, and horror and appreciate what is done so that we don't send others needlessly.

Talk to a veteran who has ever served on a front line, and you may change your mind about the flip way people speak hatefully from within their secret gardens.

VertOlive
May 6th, 2018, 05:51 AM
I find it interesting that most of these conversations are being had by those who did not serve

Honestly, living behind avatars and screen names as we do, we don't know here who has served and who hasn't. That said, my contributions are from the perspective of one whose family business is to honor the dead and this is a thread to memorialize veterans. My genuine thanks to you for you service.

Since a forum is an exchange of ideas, I really wonder where fellow pen geek adhoc gets all this anger. Personal experience? The media? The answer would be very telling, I think.

pajaro
May 6th, 2018, 06:00 AM
Deterrence. The Titan II site at which I pulled most of my alerts, 571-7, is now preserved as a museum. It's south of Tucson, Arizona. If you are in the area, you might check it out. I can't even remember how many rattlesnakes I had to catch and release outside the perimerer fence. .

adhoc
May 6th, 2018, 08:30 AM
I didn't realize I need a reason to be against killing people for money.

Guessed wrong.

Stickler
May 6th, 2018, 09:20 AM
I didn't realize I need a reason to be against killing people for money.

Guessed wrong.

I can see the philosophical argument, even if I don't agree. But let me extend that argument: would you kill someone if they were going to rape a murder someone in front of you. What if it was your daughter? What if it was yourself?

I am by nature a pacifist. Unlike most, I did see combat and can proudly say that I have never taken a life while I had mine put in harms way over and over again. Was I trained? Yes. Fortunately, the nature of my job allowed me excuse to never unholster my pistol or unsling my rifle when I was being shot at.

Most people in the military would be if they could be. Nevertheless, like the police, the fire department, and other helping services-- they see their jobs not as killers but protectors. Our rules are strict to ensure codes of conduct to minimize the loss of life. We infuse people with concepts of honor so that any life lost is only those necessary. Unlike the police, the rules of engagement are sometimes proactive, but they are measured. The military job is to protect not be mercenary. That is the case with most modern militaries of the industrialized world. The military is only an extension of politics.

Now we can have another conversation on the role of politicians: people who don't sacrifice themselves but others for political and financial gain; as well as humanitarian reason.

adhoc
May 6th, 2018, 09:36 AM
Of course soldiers are not to blame, they’re just a tool to politics. Of course they don’t make decisions, they are a tool. They’re a tool be used and discarded. Tools don’t think, they do. Some will even become a lifelong trumpet of propaganda they’ve been taught, as can be seen in this thread.

If we - and by we I mean you really, rest of the world does not do this - stop glorifying these tools, perhaps people will start appreciating their abilities more than seeing military as a honorable career.

The dilemma you presented is not factual; US never went to war to defend itself, except MAYBE pacific theater in WW2, and even then it wasn’t unprovoked. Defense is something completely different. Fighting for enforcement of petrodollar, on the other hand, is not noble. It’s putting a price tag on human lives.

VertOlive
May 6th, 2018, 11:43 AM
Still waiting for an answer to my question....

pajaro
May 6th, 2018, 08:48 PM
Still waiting for an answer to my question....

That person has a chip on his shoulder, and to any thinking college graduate veteran he appears to be anti American, and is determined to disrupt this thread with irrelevant and inflammatory arguments. What do they call this, a troll?

calamus
May 6th, 2018, 09:08 PM
We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country.

Slovenia was part of the old Yugoslavia, and Tito was a Soviet puppet and a tyrant in his own right. My grandmother was Slovenian, and my mother lived in Trieste and as a girl spent her summers in Slovenia and loved it. I've never been there but I've seen photographs. Beautiful country.

Empty_of_Clouds
May 6th, 2018, 09:08 PM
DELETE

pajaro
May 6th, 2018, 09:35 PM
I wish to add here that I believe adhoc's comments are appropriate perhaps for the lounge, but are disruptive in this thread. I have edited my profile to make my first entry in the ignored members list. The spirit of the original post does not seem to include bitter anti-Americanism, and so I will not be viewing such posts..

adhoc
May 7th, 2018, 02:03 AM
I wish to add here that I believe adhoc's comments are appropriate perhaps for the lounge, but are disruptive in this thread. I have edited my profile to make my first entry in the ignored members list. The spirit of the original post does not seem to include bitter anti-Americanism, and so I will not be viewing such posts..

That's a very childish worldview. Blocking opinions you dislike? What is this, the kindergarden? I absolutely admire USA. Just because I hate a thing about it, it does not mean I hate everything about it. I hate more things about my own country than about USA, but I still love my country.

I am sorry if I am the first person you have met that does not fit into your simplistic opinion boxes. Or perhaps I'm not, you just blocked every one of them out of your life.



We were never under the Soviet boot. You must have confused us with another country.

Slovenia was part of the old Yugoslavia, and Tito was a Soviet puppet and a tyrant in his own right. My grandmother was Slovenian, and my mother lived in Trieste and as a girl spent her summers in Slovenia and loved it. I've never been there but I've seen photographs. Beautiful country.

Yugoslavia was distinctly the third party - one to be against both USA and USSR. Drawing money from both, yes, but sided with neither. You're right, Tito is in many ways admired as a great leader, but I'm not sorry when I say fuck him, I'd gladly spit on his grave. There were killings and enslavement of thinkers under his boot. As communists tend to do.


Still waiting for an answer to my question....

And you already got it. As said, I do not need an external influence to be against killing people for money.

If I am a troll for disrupting a self masturbatory thread of killers for money, then I am gladly a troll. Everywhere I can influence people to see that military career is for simpletons and that they can achieve much more than be mere tools in their lives, I will do my very best to do so. Especially USA, where opportunities are truly limitless!

If people do not have the right to end a human life, and the government is a group of people that represent the interests of the former, then what gives the government the right to issue kill orders? And with that I will leave this thread.

Pterodactylus
May 7th, 2018, 03:24 AM
I agree with adhoc, also in my opinion there was no war after WW2 the US was involved (and there were many titled as wars or simply as conflicts or interactions) which were self defence actions.

No other country destabilized the world more than the US.
All the crap in the near east was initially caused by the US and their many interactions, as they can´t resist to play world police and enforce their own interests.

They start the fire and do not care about the results.

Especially in the near East where they destabilized many countries (by direct interaction or selling weapons (even to both sides)) they do not care about the results.
The local people there and Europe (with all the refugees) suffers from their actions.
Unfortunately Europe never got the guts to stand up against the US till now, but this might change (hopefully this will change, currently with the Iran)

We should send them the millions of refugees they caused.

They don´t stop, currently most visible when trying to split Europe and Russia and the attempt to destabilize the Iran and Syria even more.

We might not like how these countries are ruled, but when we look back the last 30 years then we see 1 thing very clearly that every single dictator they had was much better then anything else which followed.
They are not ready for democracy, every attempt to enforce it will end in destabilization, chaos, terror and religious fanatism.

So also for me there are no US veteran hero’s after WW2.
They should have better stayed home instead, waiting for a Defence situation which never happened.

But the mighty US weapon industry need continuous conflicts to sell their stuff all over the planet.
Long life the capitalism and the shareholder value.

And of course global warming does not happen.... just alternative facts and an invention of the Chinese ...... what can a thinking human say to such a crap.
Just you got the leader you deserve......

There is no need to glorify wars, soldiers and militarism. (And history shows that the US is very prone to it)

calamus
May 7th, 2018, 11:05 AM
@ adhoc - as much as you disavow Communism, your rantings are classic, textbook Communist propaganda
@ Pterodactylus - the US has stood up against Communism, and used its military as well as other avenues of opposition. Communism has been infinitely more destructive than US policy, even on those occasions when the latter has been arguably somewhat misguided.

adhoc
May 7th, 2018, 11:28 AM
I promised I will no longer reply here, but this one I just have to. Considering communists in this country either killed or banned most of my family members for being "Windische" (Austrian) Slovenians, and the only few women allowed to remain had to change their last name into a Slovenian version, it would be incredibly stupid of me to side with such a vicious and murderous ideology, don't you think? Hell, I personally still had to deal with the deprivatization act as demanded by EU before Slovenia was allowed to join. My last name has since been changed back to the Austrian version. My mother, as a little girl, was regularly dragged to UDBA (our ex-secret service) with my grandmother because she was afraid she will either "suicide herself" or will randomly "vanish", as people tend to do under communism.

Being against war is not communistic, for the love of God. World is not black and white.

VertOlive
May 7th, 2018, 01:08 PM
However many choose to spew their hatred of US military veterans, know that you only encourage me to post on this thread the memorials of those who I will meet and perform funeral services for as long as God so allows me.

I am daughter and wife to US Military Veterans.

To boot, I am stubborn and no troll will cause me to ignore "it" [not sure, here, on genders among trolls] nor to desist in being cordial as I continue my efforts to memorialize the lives of these good people.

Pterodactylus
May 7th, 2018, 01:16 PM
True, the US held back the Communism, and I´m grateful that I was born in a free western democratic country.


But back to the topic.
War is never heroic, clean, glorious, whatever.

It is always brutal, cruel, dirty, deadly, devastating and inhuman.

To glorify militarism,soldiers and pathetic nationalism is used since eons to attract young naive men in all counties to have enough fat-stock slaughtered at the battlegrounds.

There is no heroism in fighting in a war, it just destroying the lifes of the fighting people and their families.
Even the survivors are often psychologically destroyed unable to continue living a normal life.

Mainly young people are sent to foreign countries to fight the “Enemy” for their home country.
And also on the other side young people are sent to defend their home country.

They do not know each other but somebody told them that they are enemies and they have to kill the others, for god, and fatherland.

I can not see what should be glorious or good by doing that.

Collecting war stories from heroic soldiers only smoothens the path for the next generation slaughtered for god, government and fatherland.


To say it with Bruce Springsteen’s words:

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

And on the other side also young men were sent to defend their home country........

What is glorious and heroic on this......

On both sides fought young men brave for the ideals of their countries/religions/ or just because somebody told them to do so, because it’s the right thing to do .......... and died for it or were physical and/or mentally crippled.......

Really heroic and glorious,.....isnˋt it?

Wuddus
May 7th, 2018, 01:56 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, however, it seems to me that the only mention of glorification, are those who choose to silence or disrupt those sharing their life experiences. At least one voice in this thread who has worn a uniform to serve their country, has also said there is no glory.

It strikes me that the cries against, are misaligned with what appeared to be the original purpose of the thread. I do not understand what this thread's "protesters" hope to achieve. Shaming? No platforming? Or just an opportunity to voice their world views?

calamus
May 7th, 2018, 01:57 PM
Wuddus is right, nobody here is saying that war is glorious.
That's a straw man argument.

pajaro
May 7th, 2018, 02:30 PM
True, the US held back the Communism, and I´m grateful that I was born in a free western democratic country.


But back to the topic.
War is never heroic, clean, glorious, whatever.

It is always brutal, cruel, dirty, deadly, devastating and inhuman.

To glorify militarism,soldiers and pathetic nationalism is used since eons to attract young naive men in all counties to have enough fat-stock slaughtered at the battlegrounds.

There is no heroism in fighting in a war, it just destroying the lifes of the fighting people and their families.
Even the survivors are often psychologically destroyed unable to continue living a normal life.

Mainly young people are sent to foreign countries to fight the “Enemy” for their home country.
And also on the other side young people are sent to defend their home country.

They do not know each other but somebody told them that they are enemies and they have to kill the others, for god, and fatherland.

I can not see what should be glorious or good by doing that.

Collecting war stories from heroic soldiers only smoothens the path for the next generation slaughtered for god, government and fatherland.


To say it with Bruce Springsteen’s words:

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

And on the other side also young men were sent to defend their home country........

What is glorious and heroic on this......

On both sides fought young men brave for the ideals of their countries/religions/ or just because somebody told them to do so, because it’s the right thing to do .......... and died for it or were physical and/or mentally crippled.......

Really heroic and glorious,.....isnˋt it?

Back to the topic? You and adhoc have hijacked the thread for a message your own. You two are writing that war stories may not be shared because war is bad. Not glorious, blah, blah, blah. So, you are achieving your aim of disrupting and destroying the purpose of the thread, hijacking it as an antiwar tirade. Your strident message is like the antiwar activists from my college years. In hijacking this thread, you are spreading a tiresome message to people who have long hated war already. Some of us have already had enough of it that we do not need your rhetoric hijacking the thread. You are irrelevant. Some of us went into military service antiwar already, and we saw nothing to change our minds, and have nightmares playing out waking and sleeping from it. Your preachy writings are not needed. Please stop hijacking the thread. Well, I suppose you have achieved your objective by having ruined it already.

Pterodactylus
May 7th, 2018, 02:44 PM
Come on straw men, you want to hear war stories, all of them?

Do you really want to hear war stories of the other sides as well or just the heroic US ones fighting the evil?

Do you also want to hear e.g:

WW2 stories of brave German FLAK soldiers and fighter pilots which shot down the bad enemy in form of 1000s of US bombers which bombed many cities completely to the ground with block killers, fire and fragmentation bombs, and not distinguishing between military and civilian targets?

Were these Germans heros shooting down the cruel US enemies in their bombers which killed hundred thousands of civillians just to break the enemies resistance ?

Or Japanese defender stories from atomic blast survivors where the US eradicated 2 complete cities with the whole civilian inhabitants?

Or war stories of Vietnamese soldiers which fought the US invaders which killed again many civilians with Agent Orange and Napalm bombs or in direct operations cleaning villages from the evil Vietcong?

Or Iraq soldier stories which at least tried to stop the US invaders no matter if they had no chance to do so because the enemy was technologically far superior?

Really?

Or do you just prefer the US soldier stories?

War is as said always ugly, and the winners always write the history about the conflict who were the good ones and who the bad ones.

But there are always two sides.

Pterodactylus
May 7th, 2018, 04:16 PM
Actually I have a war story for you my grandmother told me (first hand memories).

My grandmother lived during the war on the country side in Austria, I think she was a 13 or 14 year old kid when she worked with others on the fields (mainly kids and women).
A allied strafer showed up and they couldn´t hide soon enough, the fighter pilot immediately opened fire with his machine guns at the people (women and kids!).
Fortunately my grandmother were not shot, he missed.
She told me that they feared the low flying allied fighters as hell as they usually shot on everything that moves, no matter what it was.
People were killed from strafers many times.
This was on the country side, no military targets, just civilians, also kids which fled from the cities and bigger villages (as they were all bombed down without mercy).


Back home the story from the other side most likely were told completely different like: In brave and heroic actions I´ve shot many evil Nazi Krauts wherever I found them. I’m a hero and defender of the freedom.

SIR
May 7th, 2018, 05:13 PM
But there are always two sides.

Monotheism will always be the enemy of the people, and it will always be alone and outnumbered.

Viva Reality!

calamus
May 7th, 2018, 05:30 PM
But there are always two sides.

Monotheism will always be the enemy of the people, and it will always be alone and outnumbered.

Viva Reality!

You're just showing off your ignorance and lack of understanding of both history and reality.
Don't you think this thread already has enough trolls? Are you really that starved for attention?

VertOlive
May 7th, 2018, 08:02 PM
To say it with Bruce Springsteen’s words:

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man.

Relief. A qualified expert has arrived to sort it all out.

Brilliant Bill
May 7th, 2018, 10:17 PM
Today, as every year now, I received an invitation...

"On behalf of the students, faculty and administration of [ ] High School, I would like to extend an invitation to you to attend our 49th Annual Memorial Day Service. It will be held Friday, May 25, in the Memorial Courtyard. This year, our speaker is [ ] who completed two tours of duty in Vietnam, stayed in the military and served one tour in Desert Storm, retiring from the military in 1996."

This is a high school that had the first Vietnam Memorial in the country (1970) because a teacher who was a WWII vet decided a memorial to students of that school killed in the Vietnam war was more inclusive than the battling between pro and anti-war factions at the time. There are seven names on that memorial. Each year the students witness a service of moments of silence, a military speaker, color guard, all the usual stuff. That's what the students see. I see the students.

I see rows and rows of students wide-eyed with wonder. They listen to the speakers. They see old guys like me up front. They see a reverence and honor for the military and military service. And I know that every one of them sees themselves being honored some day -- and not a single one sees their name on a memorial wall. And the recruiters love it. And a government representing corporations that depend on the military to rape the world for greater profits loves it.

This thread began with someone requesting that military veterans write their "stories." Unless your name is Dalton Trumbo, it is unlikely you're going to write a story that will dissuade anyone from military service. Since I oppose, vehemently, U.S. military service, I oppose these public confessions, whether war related or not. These experiences, I believe, are better left to the delete buttons of our minds.

There is one story of military service I can recommend. It comes from a retired Marine Corp Major General, Smedley Butler, a man awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor -- twice. He offered the story in a speech, then published a book, "War Is a Racket." In it, he said:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

For more information on General Butler...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

The U.S. citizenry today seems more deeply entrenched than ever in the delusion that our military is a force for good in the world. When you suggest otherwise they rise up with the righteous indignation of the woefully ignorant. Meanwhile, the government and the corporations it serves, laughs and they all pour more blood money into their bank accounts.

And as Forrest Gump said, that's all I have to say about that!

SIR
May 8th, 2018, 12:25 PM
But there are always two sides.

Monotheism will always be the enemy of the people, and it will always be alone and outnumbered.

Viva Reality!

You're just showing off your ignorance and lack of understanding of both history and reality.
Don't you think this thread already has enough trolls? Are you really that starved for attention?

Really? Do tell us about your knowledge and experience of God(s).

Freddie
May 15th, 2018, 09:30 AM
Utterly Fascinatin'

Fred
Redacting:
A veteran is someone who at one point wrote a blank check payable to the

United States of America for an amount of up to and including my life.

That is honor and there are way too many people in this country who

no longer understand it.

VertOlive
May 16th, 2018, 09:03 PM
Wait. Isn't that the famous World War One Flying Ace I see in your avatar, Pterodactylus...? :rolleyes:

Pterodactylus
May 16th, 2018, 11:59 PM
Wait. Isn't that the famous World War One Flying Ace I see in your avatar, Pterodactylus...? :rolleyes:

Shoot!

You are right, I never saw it that way, Snoopy in his imagination as WW1 ace trying to soot down the Red Baron.

But wait when his doghouse in his imagination is a Sopwith Camel, what kind of plane a fountain pen could be?

I hope something better because the Red Baron always shot down his Sopwith Camel.
Maybe he can achieve his goal finally with the power of pen and ink :)

Pterodactylus
May 17th, 2018, 02:01 AM
In case you need a better view on the plane to identify the type and the weapons. ;)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/12997837405_705a8975be_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kNzjdV)
Show_response_585 (https://flic.kr/p/kNzjdV) by Ptero Pterodactylus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/117783735@N07/), auf Flickr

(Serwex MB flex EMF ..... ESS Registrars Blue/Black, Faber Castell Polychromos)

pajaro
May 17th, 2018, 06:15 PM
Austria-Hungary started this war by invading Serbia. My great uncle was killed at the Argonne Forest and is buried in the Meuse-Argonne American cemetery maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission.

VertOlive
May 17th, 2018, 06:20 PM
In case you need a better view on the plane to identify the type and the weapons. ;)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/12997837405_705a8975be_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/kNzjdV)
Show_response_585 (https://flic.kr/p/kNzjdV) by Ptero Pterodactylus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/117783735@N07/), auf Flickr

(Serwex MB flex EMF ..... ESS Registrars Blue/Black, Faber Castell Polychromos)

You draw so well!

azkid
May 17th, 2018, 06:50 PM
Austria-Hungary started this war by invading Serbia. My great uncle was killed at the Argonne Forest and is buried in the Meuse-Argonne American cemetery maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission.My grandfather was gassed during this war, survived, initially, but eventually went blind, and died of complications some decades years later.

SIR
May 18th, 2018, 02:46 AM
Austria-Hungary started this war by invading Serbia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/WWIchartX.svg/350px-WWIchartX.svg.png

One might argue that the war was actually started as a result of poor military advice...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I#Austria_edges_towards_war_wi th_Serbia

pajaro
May 20th, 2018, 06:30 PM
Austria-Hungary started this war by invading Serbia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/WWIchartX.svg/350px-WWIchartX.svg.png

One might argue that the war was actually started as a result of poor military advice...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I#Austria_edges_towards_war_wi th_Serbia

My point being that someone from Austria making a big thing about accusing the USA of starting aggressive wars has no moral high ground to stand on.

SIR
May 21st, 2018, 12:53 AM
You have a fair point; but despite the Hitler connection, i have found Austrians to be quite likeable - this is now, when they don't have the second biggest empire in Europe, of course...

Genuine question: apart from the war of independence, which wars did USA start?

Pterodactylus
May 21st, 2018, 12:54 AM
Austria-Hungary started this war by invading Serbia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/WWIchartX.svg/350px-WWIchartX.svg.png

One might argue that the war was actually started as a result of poor military advice...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I#Austria_edges_towards_war_wi th_Serbia

My point being that someone from Austria making a big thing about accusing the USA of starting aggressive wars has no moral high ground to stand on.

Come on this is ridiculous , this has absolutely nothing to do where somebody is coming from, from the same or a different country, Same or different time period.

What‘s next? The Huns? Because there was Attila..... The Greeks? Because Alexander the Great? Italians because the Roman Empire?

Pterodactylus
May 21st, 2018, 01:05 AM
Genuine question: apart from the war of independence, which wars did USA start?


Ohhh, do you really have a problem remember such things?
You are right there are so many, it‘s hard to remember a single one, so let me help you to remember the countless conflicts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

And I‘m sure stupid Donald will add some more to the list.
Remember the guy without brain, acting like a little child and with the big atomic blast button.
Most likely the most dangerous and irrational guy currently in the world.

But I‘m proud that the Europeans now the first time seem to have the guts to not follow the US and maybe prevent another US war in the Iran.

pajaro
May 21st, 2018, 09:29 PM
Genuine question: apart from the war of independence, which wars did USA start?


Ohhh, do you really have a problem remember such things?
You are right there are so many, it‘s hard to remember a single one, so let me help you to remember the countless conflicts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

And I‘m sure stupid Donald will add some more to the list.
Remember the guy without brain, acting like a little child and with the big atomic blast button.
Most likely the most dangerous and irrational guy currently in the world.

But I‘m proud that the Europeans now the first time seem to have the guts to not follow the US and maybe prevent another US war in the Iran.

Well, El Senor Presidente, quit sniping at everybody else and knock off derailing this thread. There are many humorous things that happen in the military, war or no war, but you keep sniping at war, and these anecdotes are prevented from being presented. By you and your overzealous crusade against war. We are all against war!! I am a veteran and did my three years, eleven months and twenty-one days. Sat on ground zero--an ICBM launch complex, a big target that couldn't move. You think we enjoyed it? Incoming could arrive at any time. Knock it off. This diatribe against war is naïve, and is preaching to those who already know how terrible it is, and we don't need instruction by those who haven't been there in some way.

Pterodactylus
May 23rd, 2018, 01:05 PM
Well, El Senor Presidente, quit sniping at everybody else and knock off derailing this thread. There are many humorous things that happen in the military, war or no war, but you keep sniping at war, and these anecdotes are prevented from being presented. By you and your overzealous crusade against war. We are all against war!! I am a veteran and did my three years, eleven months and twenty-one days. Sat on ground zero--an ICBM launch complex, a big target that couldn't move. You think we enjoyed it? Incoming could arrive at any time. Knock it off. This diatribe against war is naïve, and is preaching to those who already know how terrible it is, and we don't need instruction by those who haven't been there in some way.

Hmmm, I do not remember humorous things happened during my military service.
It was some of the most stupid time in my life.

Here we have compulsory military service duty, but you can choose between military service and alternative civilian service.
I was young and stupid and influenced by my surrounding, so I´ve choosen military service, which I regretted very soon.
Instead of doing something meaningful and help people in the civilian service Iˋve wasted 8 months of my lifetime.
Many of the young guys there learn such important and humorous things like smoking and drinking and wasting their time.
But some really enjoy this club, e.g. because they can dominate others, or those who enjoy being told what to do the whole day, or those who enjoy playing with weapons.

My mother told me: Son when you enter the casern shut down your brain, you can turn it on again when you are out again

And this was a good advise, at least for people who ask and want to get reasons.

Do I now also count as veteran as I served also 8 months?
Or do somebody have to kill or at least shoot at another human to count as veteran?

I see you also counted the days until itˋs over, I did the same thing and it was the best feeling in my life (at that point of time) when I drove out the casern the last time.
Damn I was so happy.....

The only thing which I have to admit that I enjoyed was the target shooting.
Iˋm no weapon fetishist but I liked the precision of the tool in a sportive way.
These days Iˋm a target archer (recurve bow, instinctive shooting) and enjoy the shooting with it. But I would never shoot on an animal or human, only target shooting and 3D parcours (plastic animals).


What was your reason to serve in the military, because as far as I know you do not have a compulsatory military service since quite a time?

Also the same as mine? young and stupid?

pajaro
May 23rd, 2018, 06:25 PM
Well, El Senor Presidente, quit sniping at everybody else and knock off derailing this thread. There are many humorous things that happen in the military, war or no war, but you keep sniping at war, and these anecdotes are prevented from being presented. By you and your overzealous crusade against war. We are all against war!! I am a veteran and did my three years, eleven months and twenty-one days. Sat on ground zero--an ICBM launch complex, a big target that couldn't move. You think we enjoyed it? Incoming could arrive at any time. Knock it off. This diatribe against war is naïve, and is preaching to those who already know how terrible it is, and we don't need instruction by those who haven't been there in some way.

Hmmm, I do not remember humorous things happened during my military service.
It was some of the most stupid time in my life.

Here we have compulsory military service duty, but you can choose between military service and alternative civilian service.
I was young and stupid and influenced by my surrounding, so I´ve choosen military service, which I regretted very soon.
Instead of doing something meaningful and help people in the civilian service Iˋve wasted 8 months of my lifetime.
Many of the young guys there learn such important and humorous things like smoking and drinking and wasting their time.
But some really enjoy this club, e.g. because they can dominate others, or those who enjoy being told what to do the whole day, or those who enjoy playing with weapons.

My mother told me: Son when you enter the casern shut down your brain, you can turn it on again when you are out again

And this was a good advise, at least for people who ask and want to get reasons.

Do I now also count as veteran as I served also 8 months?
Or do somebody have to kill or at least shoot at another human to count as veteran?

I see you also counted the days until itˋs over, I did the same thing and it was the best feeling in my life (at that point of time) when I drove out the casern the last time.
Damn I was so happy.....

The only thing which I have to admit that I enjoyed was the target shooting.
Iˋm no weapon fetishist but I liked the precision of the tool in a sportive way.
These days Iˋm a target archer (recurve bow, instinctive shooting) and enjoy the shooting with it. But I would never shoot on an animal or human, only target shooting and 3D parcours (plastic animals).


What was your reason to serve in the military, because as far as I know you do not have a compulsatory military service since quite a time?

Also the same as mine? young and stupid?

In 1970 there was a draft, and although they had a lottery based on birthdays, my number was low enough that I would have been drafted had I not simply volunteered. Yes, a lot of it was stupid when not dangerous, but a lot of funny stuff happened. Times have changed since the 1970s.

Our missile ops squadron was divided into three sectors, each with a Sector Commander. Our sector was commanded by Major C. Our crew was two officers, Captain F. and I, and two enlisted, Sergeants M. and L. We go to the morning briefing at about 7 AM, and get on the road to site 571-7 shortly after. Crew change over at about 10:30 and we are on alert. Major C comes out and talks with Captain F aboiut painting the sile elevator (the tube where the missile and the ground equipment for the ICBM are is called the missile silo). Captain F is mad, fuming that he didn't sign up for this, and grabs Sgt. M. and some gray paint and off they go to paint the silo elevator. They come back in about twenty minutes. I was surprised, because it should have taken hours to paint the elevator.

Next day Major C. comes out to the site early, before we could be relieved by the other crew, and he drags Capt. F. out to inspect the silo elevator. They came back quickly, and Major C.'s shoes were covered in gray paint (they were beautiful Corfram shoes with a high polish). Major C. left the site in a snit, looking silly (situation normal). Our commander wouldn't say anything about it. After crew change over we hit the road in our station wagon and Sgt. M. told me that the painting consisted of throwing cans full of paint at the elevator, splashing it all over. It got good coverage, and some of the excess dripped down the elevator shaft. I would have done an eye roll if we had such a thing back then. Major C. stepped right into the wet inch of paint, fouling his shoes. I guess you would have to have been there, because Major C. looked almost like an organ grinder monkey sometimes, and this was one of them.

Lator on, when I got off of a launch crew I became a sector maintenance officer, and site 571-7 was one of my three sites. I cleaned some of the mess I found at the bottom of the elevator shaft. I left some as a memorial to our continuing conflict with the lifers. Titan II site 571-7 is now the Titan II museum.

SIR
May 25th, 2018, 01:29 AM
"The kids can learn about the Holocaust,
recite the litany of 'Never Again!'
and get on with the task of finding their proper place
in the loop of business-as-usual"

James R. Watson
'Between Auschwitz and Tradition'


It is one thing to say 'Never Again', it is another to put those words into action, and how we put those words into action is something else entirely.

pajaro
May 25th, 2018, 10:27 AM
"The kids can learn about the Holocaust,
recite the litany of 'Never Again!'
and get on with the task of finding their proper place
in the loop of business-as-usual"

James R. Watson
'Between Auschwitz and Tradition'


It is one thing to say 'Never Again', it is another to put those words into action, and how we put those words into action is something else entirely.

Is this a story, or is it another diatribe? I guess you people number enough to take anything with the word "war" in it and go off and reinterpret the intent to favor a slant of your own. Some mantra of the antiwar stuff. That's no war story. That's really a rant dressed up in a pious façade. Apparently the beat goes on, and the warlike edginess is maintained by the antiwar people, just as it was in the 60s and 70s.

SIR
May 25th, 2018, 10:54 AM
"The kids can learn about the Holocaust,
recite the litany of 'Never Again!'
and get on with the task of finding their proper place
in the loop of business-as-usual"

James R. Watson
'Between Auschwitz and Tradition'


It is one thing to say 'Never Again', it is another to put those words into action, and how we put those words into action is something else entirely.

Is this a story, or is it another diatribe? I guess you people number enough to take anything with the word "war" in it and go off and reinterpret the intent to favor a slant of your own. Some mantra of the antiwar stuff. That's no war story. That's really a rant dressed up in a pious façade. Apparently the beat goes on, and the warlike edginess is maintained by the antiwar people, just as it was in the 60s and 70s.

It's a quote, from a book.

"You people"? Please, do tell me, what you think you know about me; a word of warning though, I think gun ownership should be compulsory... and you're a pussy-whipped retard, if you think otherwise.

Pterodactylus
May 25th, 2018, 12:22 PM
I think gun ownership should be compulsory... and you're a pussy-whipped retard, if you think otherwise.

.... without words......
I will not even comment such a mindless statement, you already disqualified yourself.

Wuddus
May 25th, 2018, 12:45 PM
I think gun ownership should be compulsory... and you're a pussy-whipped retard, if you think otherwise.

:rofl: That's hilarious!

You do realise that 22, 38 and 45 aren't numerical increases in IQ for carrying them don't you? :D

I'll not judge you for wanting one, but please don't judge me for not wanting one. ;) I have some friends that own firearms, and I think that they are responsible people who can be trusted with them. I also know people I wouldn't trust with a wooden spoon. :)

pajaro
May 25th, 2018, 01:05 PM
"The kids can learn about the Holocaust,
recite the litany of 'Never Again!'
and get on with the task of finding their proper place
in the loop of business-as-usual"

James R. Watson
'Between Auschwitz and Tradition'


It is one thing to say 'Never Again', it is another to put those words into action, and how we put those words into action is something else entirely.

Is this a story, or is it another diatribe? I guess you people number enough to take anything with the word "war" in it and go off and reinterpret the intent to favor a slant of your own. Some mantra of the antiwar stuff. That's no war story. That's really a rant dressed up in a pious façade. Apparently the beat goes on, and the warlike edginess is maintained by the antiwar people, just as it was in the 60s and 70s.

It's a quote, from a book.

"You people"? Please, do tell me, what you think you know about me; a word of warning though, I think gun ownership should be compulsory... and you're a pussy-whipped retard, if you think otherwise.

Is that all you have, a quote? No first hand account? Just another antiwar, anti-killing quote. None of us want killing or war. We don't need more attempts to convince the convinced.

Someone says everyone should carry a gun. I got rid of mine after PTSD and the ear ringing from an altitude chamber accident had me on the virge of using it on myself. That was enough.

How about some first hand accounts? Something to give a little pleasure? If all you can come up with to satisfy a compulsion to post is some quote not of an interesting or amusing story, why not just leave it. Part of the PTSD I still have is from all the antiwar harangues from the Vietnam era. If you didn't live through it, you won't understand. If you didn't live through it in uniform, if you didn't constantly have people, especially the ones your own age, harassing you as if you were an occupying force within your own country, you won't get it. People back then often actually made you feel bad about serving.

Paddler
May 25th, 2018, 01:46 PM
I wrote a rather extensive reply to some of the ideas expressed in this thread. When I hit the Post button, a message appeared that there was some kind of token missing and my whole text was thrown into the bit bucket. I am not going to try to recreate the post. I have very little patience with computerized shenanigans these days; patience left with my geezer status.

Wuddus
May 25th, 2018, 02:02 PM
I wrote a rather extensive reply to some of the ideas expressed in this thread. When I hit the Post button, a message appeared that there was some kind of token missing and my whole text was thrown into the bit bucket. I am not going to try to recreate the post. I have very little patience with computerized shenanigans these days; patience left with my geezer status.

Normally because you were logged out while you were typing. Happens to me all the time. Next time, there's an easy fix...

If it's logged you out when you try to post, DON'T log staright in again. Hit the back button on your browser, and you'll go back to the page with all your typing in. Then right click on any link on the page, and select "open in new page/window/tab" and log in on that second window instead. Click back on the window with all the text in, and hit post.

That should fix it for you.

Wuddus
May 25th, 2018, 02:13 PM
If I may be allowed to inject a little sanity into all this madness....

War is bad. War should be avoided whenever possible. War is sometimes necessary. War sometimes happens when it's not necessary.

I think the vast majority of voices on this thread can agree with that.

I have no real interest in heroic personal deeds, and how many were splattered, and with what. However, these were people in a job of work. I have heard funny warehousing tales, office tales, manufacturing tales, first responder tales. Why shouldn't I hear funny military downtime tales, or training tales, or feats of blind stupidity that crop up everywhere else people ever have a presence. They're people, funny things happen, stupid things happen, gentle and heartwarming things happen. Not everything military related is tales of conquest and slaughter. In my experience, they are tales the folks involved would rather not recount anyway.

Now all the nay sayers and doomsday preachers have had their say, can we move onto to the stories of interesting people please?

Pterodactylus
May 25th, 2018, 02:27 PM
If I may be allowed to inject a little sanity into all this madness....

War is bad. War should be avoided whenever possible. War is sometimes necessary. War sometimes happens when it's not necessary.

I think the vast majority of voices on this thread can agree with that.

I have no real interest in heroic personal deeds, and how many were splattered, and with what. However, these were people in a job of work. I have heard funny warehousing tales, office tales, manufacturing tales, first responder tales. Why shouldn't I hear funny military downtime tales, or training tales, or feats of blind stupidity that crop up everywhere else people ever have a presence. They're people, funny things happen, stupid things happen, gentle and heartwarming things happen. Not everything military related is tales of conquest and slaughter. In my experience, they are tales the folks involved would rather not recount anyway.

Now all the nay sayers and doomsday preachers have had their say, can we move onto to the stories of interesting people please?

Ahhmmmmm...... you see the title of the thread right?

Itˋs named “War stories”, not “Tell us funny tales you had during your military service” which is a completely different thing.
I liked pajaros story above but it was no “war story”......

Wuddus
May 25th, 2018, 02:33 PM
If I may be allowed to inject a little sanity into all this madness....

War is bad. War should be avoided whenever possible. War is sometimes necessary. War sometimes happens when it's not necessary.

I think the vast majority of voices on this thread can agree with that.

I have no real interest in heroic personal deeds, and how many were splattered, and with what. However, these were people in a job of work. I have heard funny warehousing tales, office tales, manufacturing tales, first responder tales. Why shouldn't I hear funny military downtime tales, or training tales, or feats of blind stupidity that crop up everywhere else people ever have a presence. They're people, funny things happen, stupid things happen, gentle and heartwarming things happen. Not everything military related is tales of conquest and slaughter. In my experience, they are tales the folks involved would rather not recount anyway.

Now all the nay sayers and doomsday preachers have had their say, can we move onto to the stories of interesting people please?

Ahhmmmmm...... you see the title of the thread right?

Itˋs named “War stories”, not “Tell us funny tales you had during your military service” which is a completely different thing.
I liked pajeros story above but it was no “war story”......

Yeah, fair play.

I'll get my coat...

:D

SIR
May 26th, 2018, 02:28 AM
I think gun ownership should be compulsory... and you're a pussy-whipped retard, if you think otherwise.

:rofl: That's hilarious!

You do realise that 22, 38 and 45 aren't numerical increases in IQ for carrying them don't you? :D

I'll not judge you for wanting one, but please don't judge me for not wanting one. ;) I have some friends that own firearms, and I think that they are responsible people who can be trusted with them. I also know people I wouldn't trust with a wooden spoon. :)

'Intelligence Quotients', really?!

A lot of people, including and especially those who would be judged by the so-called intelligent and educated as untrustworthy, already have guns; but that is all irrelevant as without responsiblity what motivation does one have for behaving responsibly?
And unless you want to live in a dictatorship, you shouldn't be arguing in favour of others deciding who is worthy of being able to defend themselves or not.
Nazi gun control legislation disarmed 'unreliable' persons - "the most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms." said Adolf Hitler.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQcl6ymmA_Y

SIR
May 26th, 2018, 02:53 AM
Is that all you have, a quote? No first hand account? Just another antiwar, anti-killing quote. None of us want killing or war. We don't need more attempts to convince the convinced.

What made you think it was an anti-war quote?

It's actually a reference to the current climate of mass ignorance, and obfuscation of the reality we inhabit, by the constant repetition of a lie - that somehow things have changed.

The author's point is that although the Holocaust was a threshold, very little has changed; the mass industrialisation and consumer culture is silencing the screams of the survivors.

Perhaps, actually you agree, as you too are a survivor?

VertOlive
May 28th, 2018, 09:37 AM
Back to the topic: A Heartfelt "Thank You" to all American Veterans on this Memorial Day!

Paddler
June 10th, 2018, 05:45 AM
So far, I have nagged, cajoled, and persuaded three other guys to write their war stories. Two of them have wrung the subject dry and have begun to write their life histories and family anecdotes. They just got into writing and can't quit now. Not only that, but they are getting good at it. Holy carp on a cracker factorial. I am going to have to work just to keep up.

SIR
June 10th, 2018, 10:17 AM
"A veteran is someone who has served in the armed forces for at least one day. There are around 2.6 million veterans in the UK. When servicemen and women leave the armed forces, their healthcare is the responsibility of the NHS." (the same as any other citizen/resident of the UK...)
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Militaryhealthcare/veterans-families-reservists/Pages/veterans.aspx

On the flip-side...
https://thewaltercumpershunterclub.wordpress.com

adhoc
June 12th, 2018, 11:57 AM
Thank you to all the brave men and women who valiantly tortured completely innocent people based on their name. Special thanks to supreme court of justice judge Antonin Scalia who realized torture works, despite all scientific evidence, because he saw it works on tv show 24. You are true patriots!

https://i.imgur.com/cgseJQ3_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

SIR
June 12th, 2018, 12:42 PM
Thank you to all the brave men and women who valiantly tortured completely innocent people based on their name. Special thanks to supreme court of justice judge Antonin Scalia who realized torture works, despite all scientific evidence, because he saw it works on tv show 24. You are true patriots!

https://i.imgur.com/cgseJQ3_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

I'd definitely take Stammheim (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stammheim_Prison) over Guantanamo any day, but i wouldn't want Jean-Paul Sartre being allowed in to visit me!

Pterodactylus
June 13th, 2018, 05:34 AM
OK here is another war story as this thread seems not want to die.

In 1792 this man died at age of 32 defending his people and country against technological far superior invaders which outnumbered the inhabitants of the north american subcontinent by far.
The invaders stolen everything from the native inhabitants, destroyed their livelihood, commited genocide and annihilated almost all members of the native inhabitants.


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1754/28899293498_dace621697_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/L2Jr81)
Quote 029 (https://flic.kr/p/L2Jr81) by Ptero Pterodactylus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/117783735@N07/), auf Flickr

(Croxley - Dickinson ..... Diamine Calligraphy Passion)



Hmmmm, seems that nothing really changed since then.
History is still written by the winners and the viewpoint depends on the side you stand.......

VertOlive
June 13th, 2018, 12:25 PM
A personal friend died this week. He served his country and did a tour in Vietnam in the Army. In his later years, he was part of the "Volleys for Veterans", a group of former military men who performed the part of the honor guard at the funerals of veterans.

Requiescat in pace, amicus.

dneal
June 22nd, 2018, 12:54 PM
Ferchrissakes, take your one-sided political commentary to the politics forum. Taking a dump in this thread just makes you look like a douche.

VertOlive - Sorry about your friend.

40593

Freddie
June 23rd, 2018, 02:33 PM
Ferchrissakes, take your one-sided political commentary to the politics forum. Taking a dump in this thread just makes you look like a douche.

VertOlive - Sorry about your friend.

40593

You're a better man than I.....I wouldn't waste my breath on these deadwood mother,,,,,,,

Fred

dneal
June 23rd, 2018, 04:25 PM
Back on topic...

In 2004 my Battalion HQ was in Luxembourg. They worked with the U.S. Embassy and Luxembourg government to put on a 60th Anniversary celebration of the deeds of young Americans during the Battle of the Bulge. I was fortunate enough to get to chat with many of these men.

40603

One story that sticks in my mind was the answer to the question "how did you stay warm"? That may seem like a strange detail, but anyone who has served and knows how it feels to be at the mercy of the weather understands the significance. December 1944 in Belgium was particularly harsh, with night time temperatures well below freezing. History.com gives this account: "As the battle raged, blizzards and freezing rain often reduced visibility to almost zero. Frost covered much of the soldiers’ equipment, and tanks had to be chiseled out of ice after they froze to the ground overnight. Many wounded soldiers froze to death before they were rescued, and thousands of American G.I.s were eventually treated for cases of frostbite and trench foot." You can also read this veteran's account (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/cold-still-haunts-battle-of-the-bulge-veteran-96/). Even the best equipped Soldiers had little more than an extra pair of socks, scarf and gloves, and wool trench coat. Lighting a fire could get you killed, either due to the smoke during the day or the light created by the flames at night.

Anyway, the technique these gentlemen used was: "We would throw a grenade to blast away a clearing in the snow. One guy would spread his trench coat on the frozen ground and lay on it in a sort of fetal position. The other would sit on his hips, and drape his trench coat around them both. We'd take turns like this through the night, pulling guard and getting some sleep".

That's the sort of thing you don't get in the history books. That's the everyday sacrifice these men offered for the liberation of Europe. That's the minor detail that interests a fellow Soldier, equipped with modern kit. Most people today couldn't fathom it.

Anyway, it was a great event. Clearly this old veteran enjoyed at least a portion of it (one of my favorite pictures).

40604

pajaro
June 26th, 2018, 04:36 PM
Back on topic...

In 2004 my Battalion HQ was in Luxembourg. They worked with the U.S. Embassy and Luxembourg government to put on a 60th Anniversary celebration of the deeds of young Americans during the Battle of the Bulge. I was fortunate enough to get to chat with many of these men.

40603

One story that sticks in my mind was the answer to the question "how did you stay warm"? That may seem like a strange detail, but anyone who has served and knows how it feels to be at the mercy of the weather understands the significance. December 1944 in Belgium was particularly harsh, with night time temperatures well below freezing. History.com gives this account: "As the battle raged, blizzards and freezing rain often reduced visibility to almost zero. Frost covered much of the soldiers’ equipment, and tanks had to be chiseled out of ice after they froze to the ground overnight. Many wounded soldiers froze to death before they were rescued, and thousands of American G.I.s were eventually treated for cases of frostbite and trench foot." You can also read this veteran's account (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/cold-still-haunts-battle-of-the-bulge-veteran-96/). Even the best equipped Soldiers had little more than an extra pair of socks, scarf and gloves, and wool trench coat. Lighting a fire could get you killed, either due to the smoke during the day or the light created by the flames at night.

Anyway, the technique these gentlemen used was: "We would throw a grenade to blast away a clearing in the snow. One guy would spread his trench coat on the frozen ground and lay on it in a sort of fetal position. The other would sit on his hips, and drape his trench coat around them both. We'd take turns like this through the night, pulling guard and getting some sleep".

That's the sort of thing you don't get in the history books. That's the everyday sacrifice these men offered for the liberation of Europe. That's the minor detail that interests a fellow Soldier, equipped with modern kit. Most people today couldn't fathom it.

Anyway, it was a great event. Clearly this old veteran enjoyed at least a portion of it (one of my favorite pictures).

40604

Exactly. Great story. I envied those guys who could still fit into their uniforms. I need to lose four more inches from my waist, but the shirts still fit. I gave most of the uniforms to my cousins. I saved a couple of missile blue fatigues to work on my car.

VertOlive
July 16th, 2018, 08:28 PM
We buried two Army veterans this last week. A 71 yr old Viet Nam vet whose prayer to "Just make it back to the ranch in one piece" was answered, and an 88 yr old Korean war man who came home to his cotton fields and refused to speak of those years to anyone as far as his family recalled.

pajaro
July 18th, 2018, 06:55 PM
It's hard to talk about that stuff. My father, a US Navy radioman, landed with the Marines on Tarawa and Saipan. The only thing he ever told me about it was "I almost got my head blown off by a Jap shell."

wingwiper
August 12th, 2018, 01:31 PM
As a disabled vet in a chair I applaud anyone who reaches out to our veterans.

I volunteer in a State run Veteran's facility and maybe those of you whom think the OP is nonsensical should visit like wise. While not all veterans want or are even able to remember I find the VAST majority are elated and humbled that someone is interested to write down their experiences and pass down to the next generation. Veterans for the most part are largely forgotten. we forget abt the veterans who served in between combat, which makes up the majority, are now getting older who many feel they are no longer an asset to society.

I do not expect everyone to agree, but darn I get vexed when someone attempts to do a good will for a veteran and there is always a Judas in the bunch to debase when someone reaches out.

Paddler
August 12th, 2018, 03:57 PM
I know three vets who are writing their memoirs. They are going to meet for an eyeball QSO next month. They are eager to meet each other and discuss the stories they have written about their experiences in combat and in garrison alike. I will be privileged to attend the moot. We will grill out in the backyard and hoist a few brews.

pajaro
August 16th, 2018, 12:28 PM
As a disabled vet in a chair I applaud anyone who reaches out to our veterans.

I volunteer in a State run Veteran's facility and maybe those of you whom think the OP is nonsensical should visit like wise. While not all veterans want or are even able to remember I find the VAST majority are elated and humbled that someone is interested to write down their experiences and pass down to the next generation. Veterans for the most part are largely forgotten. we forget abt the veterans who served in between combat, which makes up the majority, are now getting older who many feel they are no longer an asset to society.

I do not expect everyone to agree, but darn I get vexed when someone attempts to do a good will for a veteran and there is always a Judas in the bunch to debase when someone reaches out.

You took however number of years out of your life to serve. I hope you never feel useless. Those who did not enter combat supported the mission, deterrence. Everybody who served in any capacity was part of that.

wingwiper
August 21st, 2018, 01:32 PM
As a disabled vet in a chair I applaud anyone who reaches out to our veterans.

I volunteer in a State run Veteran's facility and maybe those of you whom think the OP is nonsensical should visit like wise. While not all veterans want or are even able to remember I find the VAST majority are elated and humbled that someone is interested to write down their experiences and pass down to the next generation. Veterans for the most part are largely forgotten. we forget abt the veterans who served in between combat, which makes up the majority, are now getting older who many feel they are no longer an asset to society.

I do not expect everyone to agree, but darn I get vexed when someone attempts to do a good will for a veteran and there is always a Judas in the bunch to debase when someone reaches out.

You took however number of years out of your life to serve. I hope you never feel useless. Those who did not enter combat supported the mission, deterrence. Everybody who served in any capacity was part of that.

:amen:

VertOlive
September 25th, 2018, 06:55 AM
We buried a 95 year old WWII vet with military honors this week. He was a machine gunner who survived 4 years' combat in the Pacific.

He came home, was a mailman for 40 years, then a Senior Center volunteer for another 20. And a deacon for his church from his first day home.

Rest in peace, Leon.

Paddler
September 26th, 2018, 02:15 PM
We buried a 95 year old WWII vet with military honors this week. He was a machine gunner who survived 4 years' combat in the Pacific.

He came home, was a mailman for 40 years, then a Senior Center volunteer for another 20. And a deacon for his church from his first day home.

Rest in peace, Leon.

I hope Leon left his family some memoirs.

pajaro
September 26th, 2018, 06:10 PM
It's hard to talk about that stuff. My father, a US Navy radioman, landed with the Marines on Tarawa and Saipan. The only thing he ever told me about it was "I almost got my head blown off by a Jap shell."

This.

VertOlive
November 10th, 2018, 11:03 PM
I took Art on his last ride yesterday. He was an 89 year old rancher who served as a Marine in Korea until he was wounded and sent home. He spent the rest of his life like most in these parts: ranching and raising a family. He did leave behind his Purple Heart and old photos for his family to hold dear.

Paddler
November 24th, 2018, 03:57 PM
Another vet has left us. I don't know if he left any stories behind or not.

In the '60s, out behind friend Tom's Mother's house there used to be an octagonal outbuilding. There was electricity, an old refrigerator, a desk, and a few chairs. A group of us (Tom, Jim, Ed, John, and I) used to hang out there on Friday nights (and Saturday nights too, when we didn't have dates). A few other classmates would drop in, too, from time to time. We would sit and talk and smoke and joke into the wee hours.

Some of us had guitars and we would play and sing together. One of us would write a song and we would play it maybe like Bob Dylan and then rearrange it to sound like Buddy Holly, and then various folk music groups. Then we would wad it up and throw it into the waste basket and someone would write another one. Songs are cheap when they come to you that easy. Someone would bring a stone jug of homemade wine and somebody else would bring a bag of chips or some cheesecake.

There was a bare light bulb hanging from the center of the ceiling but its light was too garish for us. We preferred to sit in the gloom with a candle or two or maybe an oil lantern.

"By the old wooden stove where our hats was hung
Our words were told, our songs were sung
Where we longed for nothin' and were satisfied
Talkin' and a-jokin' about the world outside"

-from "Bob Dylan's Dream"-

John and I met in the 6th grade (1952?). We went through high school together and swapped rides to college for four years. In the late '60s we were both drafted into the Army. We both made it back alive. In 2009, our high school graduating class celebrated our 45th anniversary. John talked and walked like he was intoxicated. A stroke had left him that way.

Last week, John was eating dinner with a friend. John began to choke on his food. His companion panicked and left him. When she had summoned the courage to return, John was dead.

That has to be a hard thing, to fall off the twig like that, abandoned. It is even a hard thing to know about.

pajaro
November 24th, 2018, 09:57 PM
Very sad. I expect some such will be my fate.

Bzzer
November 25th, 2018, 10:53 AM
Whilst we think of the service personnel who fought in the Great War, 100 years ago, let us also remember those left behind in this most bloody of wars but also more modern conflicts.

The Colonel whose job it was to organize the proceedings for the return of deceased military personnel at a UK air force base was asked if he was ever affected by the great sadness of it all. He said that he had to take it all in his stride, it was his job and it was part of his training, that training meant that he had to set an example forall those taking part, the bandsmen, the coffin bearers, the townspeople and everyone else involved including some very high ranking officers. More than anyone however, it was to show respect to the bereaved family,

That stiff upper lip lasted until the 105th former soldier came home. The organizing officer made an exception for this man and broke down, not for the loss of a soldier but the loss of a father.

The soldier had been killed in battle and his body was to be returned from Afghanistan, tragically, the soldier had four small daughters. A few days before the plane was due the Colonel went to see the family in order to make sure that they were aware as to what was going to happen, where they would be standing and what would be expected of them. A car would be sent for them, and the girls were all to wear their best clothes, the youngest was three years old, the next just 5, the other two were 8 and 9.

Mum had said to her children. ‘be brave, be strong, do this for your father’.

They arrived at the airfield as the plane was on approach, the band had started playing, quite quietly, rows of officers stood waiting and all at attention.

Mum and the girls lined up as the plane taxied towards them and came to a halt. The soldiers all saluted, all maintaining their composure. As the coffin was lowered to the ground, there was now silence, that was until the little 5 year old girl dropped to the floor and said 'Daddy'.

Everyone on that airfield broke down in tears.

Paddler
December 18th, 2018, 10:50 AM
Yesterday, two of the war-story writers met at my house and we swapped lies over coffee and pie. These two use their computers to do their writing, praising how much faster it is and their ability to move whole paragraphs at a time. I asked them if they could remember ever cutting and pasting a whole paragraph. They couldn't.

I showed them a couple of stories that are in my pipeline, written in longhand. They were aghast at how labor intensive that method is. I told them it would be indeed labor intensive if I used a ballpoint pen or pencil. A fountain pen takes most of the labor out of the project. It slows me down and I think I write differently that way -- changes my idiolect. They were not convinced.

Anyway, one of the guys finished his Army stories and has started notating the rest of his life. Their motivation for writing is to let their children know how their parents survived without smart phones, TV, and cars without automatic transmissions.

pajaro
December 19th, 2018, 04:44 PM
Writing with a pen is slower and I find it leads to a more pensive experience.

Paddler
December 20th, 2018, 07:16 AM
Writing with a pen is slower and I find it leads to a more pensive experience.

Hey! Was that pun intentional? Go ahead, take the credit. I'll wait.

calamus
February 13th, 2019, 10:29 AM
Yesterday, two of the war-story writers met at my house and we swapped lies over coffee and pie. These two use their computers to do their writing, praising how much faster it is and their ability to move whole paragraphs at a time. I asked them if they could remember ever cutting and pasting a whole paragraph. They couldn't.

I showed them a couple of stories that are in my pipeline, written in longhand. They were aghast at how labor intensive that method is. I told them it would be indeed labor intensive if I used a ballpoint pen or pencil. A fountain pen takes most of the labor out of the project. It slows me down and I think I write differently that way -- changes my idiolect. They were not convinced.

Anyway, one of the guys finished his Army stories and has started notating the rest of his life. Their motivation for writing is to let their children know how their parents survived without smart phones, TV, and cars without automatic transmissions.

He'd better digitize the stories so they can read them on their phones or whatever technologies supplant that!

pajaro
February 13th, 2019, 04:53 PM
Writing with a pen is slower and I find it leads to a more pensive experience.

Hey! Was that pun intentional? Go ahead, take the credit. I'll wait.

I didn't notice the pun in the sentence. Pretty dense of me to not have seen it.

Elijah21
February 26th, 2023, 09:51 PM
The topic is interesting, I learned a lot.

vdiantonio
February 27th, 2023, 01:45 PM
Other than continuing glorification of militarism and war, I see no point in this.

We're turning veterans into a fetish in this country, and I'm sick of it. I refuse to participate in your fetish.

Fine. Go away.

FredRydr
February 27th, 2023, 02:51 PM
Fine. Go away.
You are replying to a six-year-old post in a thread resurrected yesterday by a bot.

FredRydr
February 27th, 2023, 02:52 PM
Fine. Go away.
You are replying to a six-year-old post in a thread resurrected yesterday by a bot.

Nice Parker 75 set, BTW.