Loctite for hard rubber repair?

[FredRydr]

In the classified, the following was posted:


This a 1930’s vintage Waterman’s 32 Ideal Black (hard rubber) fountain pen made in England...There was one small tight crack on the lip of the cap. See last photo. But this has been fused with locktite 480, a proven bonding agent for black hard rubber....

Can anyone shed light on Locktite being used to repair hard rubber? Advantages and drawbacks? The science behind it?

TIA

Fred

[Jon Szanto]

I've always been led to believe there are *no* bonding agents for HR. I wouldn't touch the pen without further data.

[Deb]

+1 to the above. Nothing that I know of will securely repair hard rubber.

[grainweevil]

I've read several threads in the Other Place that seem to demonstrate its effectiveness - youse guys need to get out more.

[Deb]

Yes, I've read those threads too but practical experience doesn't support Loctite in the longer term.

It's freezing cold here. I think I'll stay in.

[Hawk]

I’m sure there are enthusiasts out there with one in the bottom, bottom drawer (one step from the grave in the landfill) who will experiment with this. I would do it if I had such a piece of a pen.

[Jon Szanto]

I've read several threads in the Other Place that seem to demonstrate its effectiveness - youse guys need to get out more.

Coming from experienced and noted repair people, or just average pikers like me who haven't dealt with hundreds or thousands of pens? Any glue 'may' hold for a while, but will it hold over the long haul and do so without imparting other damage.

Lastly, if you refer to several threads, you might throw out a link. I don't spend a lot of time over there because of the crap, so it is easy to miss a niche thread.

Hell, just did a search. This thread (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327822-loctite-480-or-other-cas-for-bchr-repair-longevity/?hl=loctite) seems to have the deepest discussion, but I'm sorry to see neither FarmBoy or D. Nishimura weigh in. Ron Z is there but doesn't directly address the adhesive. I might drop D a line elsewhere to get his input.

[Farmboy]

I believe 480 is nothing more than your typical ethyl cyanoacrylate glue with a quinone and phthalate as additives and a bit of black in it to look like rubber. Believe it was developed to bond metal to rubber not rubber to rubber.

[grainweevil]

Yes, I've read those threads too but practical experience doesn't support Loctite in the longer term.

Your and Jon's replies gave the distinct impression it was utterly unknown to you, hence my comment.

[Deb]

Hi grainweevil, I've tried it myself and it was successful at first but failed later. Against that, I know at least one highly reputable pen restorer who swears by it. I would suggest trying it on scrap material and if you find it to be useful, move on to pens in need of repair.

Where opinions differ it's best to try it yourself.

[KrazyIvan]

I am a total noob when it comes to this subject. Wouldn't vulcanizing fluid be a good choice to fuse HR? Seriously, just curious.

[Deb]

I am a total noob when it comes to this subject. Wouldn't vulcanizing fluid be a good choice to fuse HR? Seriously, just curious.

It's for use with patches on tyres which are an entirely different composition from pens. Never tried it. You could try it with scrap material. Of course you then have to keep that work-piece for at least ten years to find out what the long-term effects are.

[Cob]

I have a bottle of Loctite 480 that I ordered full of optimism; I have never managed to stick anything with it, let alone hard rubber. Unlike all the other Loctite products I have used (blue, red and green thread lockers which are excellent for example) 480 appears to be useless.

The one product that I have used that really did fix hard rubber was Liquid Weld (a sort of Cyanoacrylate-type glue) as recommended in The Pen Repair Manual. This did not always work, but I do remember a 100% successful cure on a Swan clip screw, the sort that has a thin waist that accepts a clip that pushes into place. This screw snapped. After three attempts with the Liquid Weld I made an effective repair. I tested this rigorously and there was no problem.

It was a wonderful product available from a bloke called Paul McManus - liquidweld@googlemail.com. I wrote to him at the end of January this year but received no reply so sadly I suppose that the product is no longer available.

Cob

[FredRydr]

The one product that I have used that really did fix hard rubber was Liquid Weld...It was a wonderful product available from a bloke called Paul McManus - liquidweld@googlemail.com. I wrote to him at the end of January this year but received no reply so sadly I suppose that the product is no longer available.
Here he is! Note the email address, liquidweld@googlemail.com, and UK phone number, 07782 220213, at the top of the video screen. Prices appear at the end of the video beginning at 7:55. Alas, the video is dated eight years ago: Jul 19, 2010.


https://youtu.be/6QTFMI92zA0

But I as I dig deeper with Google, I find more, and Mr. McManus might still be around. The website is mostly completed, and it works if you give it a few extra seconds to load. For information, go there first rather than watching the video to its end.

Liquid Weld Devon
2 Dowhills Cottages
Bampton
Tiverton Devon EX16 9DS
United Kingdom
Tel: 07782 220213
Mobile: 01398 361671 (Between 9AM and 9PM Mon-Sat G.M.T.)
http://www.liquidweldglue.co.uk/
Mr Paul Mcmanus - Principal Executive/Proprietor (Proprietor)

[KrazyIvan]

I have a bottle of Loctite 480 that I ordered full of optimism; I have never managed to stick anything with it, let alone hard rubber. Unlike all the other Loctite products I have used (blue, red and green thread lockers which are excellent for example) 480 appears to be useless.

The one product that I have used that really did fix hard rubber was Liquid Weld (a sort of Cyanoacrylate-type glue) as recommended in The Pen Repair Manual. This did not always work, but I do remember a 100% successful cure on a Swan clip screw, the sort that has a thin waist that accepts a clip that pushes into place. This screw snapped. After three attempts with the Liquid Weld I made an effective repair. I tested this rigorously and there was no problem.

It was a wonderful product available from a bloke called Paul McManus - liquidweld@googlemail.com. I wrote to him at the end of January this year but received no reply so sadly I suppose that the product is no longer available.

Cob

It does not seem the OP specifies sticking the parts together, it sounds more like it was used as a crack filler/stabilizer.

[BamaPen]

I have used Loctite 480 successfully twice to repair BHR. Both instances were several years ago and the repairs are still holding quite well.

One repair was one of those cap lip cracks that propagate in sort of a J shape. The entire crack was below the inside threads, so not under any particular stress when the cap is screwed on, but definitely stressed if the cap is posted. The crack stood open, so I applied the Loctite 480 from inside the cap using one of those glue dispensers that lets one appli just the very smallest amount. I worked the crack a time or two to use capillary action to draw the Loctite in, then clamped it for over a week to allow the Loctite to cure. That was in 2011 and the repair is still holding. I can only detect the crack by using a loupe.

The second was an ink sac nipple on a small Lakeside ringtop pen. A substantial chunk was broken out of the nipple such that a sac could not be fitted onto it. I used Loctite 480 and clamped the nipple longitudinally with a small bar clamp that reached from the face of the section to the tip of the nipple. Again, I allowed the Loctite to cure, then fitted an ink sac and the pen writes nicely to this day. That was in about 2013.

I suspect that there were two major factors in these successful repairs:
1. the surfaces to be glued were probably not oxidized - I know the nipple wasn't because I broke it myself.
2. The fix was clamped tightly and allowed to cure for well over a week in each case before any stress was put on the repair.

John