Water resistance, how important to you?

[Gobblecup]

So I have come to the point where I won’t ink my pens with inks that don’t at least have some water resistance, enough to survive a surprise rain shower outdoors, or a spill at the table. And I’ve gotten to where now I won’t even buy inks that don’t have a measure of water resistance, and I aim for those that are permanent, archival, and waterproof. Something about the joy of writing seems deminished for me knowing all it takes is a quick splash or drop of liquid to destroy my thoughts and feelings so beautifully laid down onto paper. Even worse, if the notes are about my health (which I try to monitor via journaling) or school, I find their destruction to be all the more terrible. Maybe I’m a bit anal about it, and it rules out lots of wonderful brands and colors, Diamine, J. Herbin, Colorverse, Robert Oster, and the list goes on. I’m restricted to a few brands and lines of inks that at least show some water resistance. So how do the rest of you feel about this, does it (water resistance/permanence) matter to you? How permanent do you need your inks if you need them so? Why? What role does balancing ink behavior and maintenance play on your choices? What brands do you find to be water resistant that I haven’t possibly thought about?

[suzy01]

I need my ink to be 100% waterproof when I put a watercolour wash over the top. A few reportedly waterproof inks that are OK for a larger spillage are still a bit smudgy with only a tiny bit of water (noodlers etc) so the only one I've found to be any good for me is de atramentis black document ink. There was a thread on here where people found it feathers and didn't like it but with my Xxxf nib and sketchbook paper it's perfect. If I've no intention of washing over it then I not fussed about waterproofness, the other media in my sketchbook would be ruined in the wet too so I try and keep it dry.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Wuddus]

Water resistance of my fountain pen inks is irrelevant. I'd rather have a fountain pen that is easy to clean out. If I need water resistance, I'll use a ballpoint, as I don't have to service that.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Never given it a moments thought. Then again, writing outside with the prospect of rain is not on my agenda much. As for losing what I've written... well, I don't think I've ever written anything worth keeping anyway. :)

[Chrissy]

Whether an ink is "Waterproof" is completely irrelevant to me. It's not like I'm an important archivist or anything. Whatever I write doesn't need to be able to last forever whether it gets wet or not. :)

[catbert]

One pen with a bulletproof ink is dedicated to addressing envelopes and there's usually at least one with an iron gall or something else that won't be completely removed by a watercolour wash. Beyond that, anything goes.

[Chrissy]

One pen with a bulletproof ink is dedicated to addressing envelopes and there's usually at least one with an iron gall or something else that won't be completely removed by a watercolour wash. Beyond that, anything goes.
Yes, I can understand this. I never use bulletproof ink (assuming it's Noodler's) but have a couple of inks that I consider "more water resistant" that I generally use for addressing envelopes. The main priority is that they don't stain my ink windows and they wash out easily :)

[Gobblecup]

Never given it a moments thought. Then again, writing outside with the prospect of rain is not on my agenda much. As for losing what I've written... well, I don't think I've ever written anything worth keeping anyway. :)

The weather in Texas can be very unpredictable, and I like to write outdoors quite a bit, better lighting, more inspiration. :D

[Gobblecup]

One pen with a bulletproof ink is dedicated to addressing envelopes and there's usually at least one with an iron gall or something else that won't be completely removed by a watercolour wash. Beyond that, anything goes.
Yes, I can understand this. I never use bulletproof ink (assuming it's Noodler's) but have a couple of inks that I consider "more water resistant" that I generally use for addressing envelopes. The main priority is that they don't stain my ink windows and they wash out easily :)

I use a bulletproof black eel from Noodler’s for most of my addressing, I always have a Safari inked up with it.

Which inks do you use for this purpose?

[catbert]

One pen with a bulletproof ink is dedicated to addressing envelopes and there's usually at least one with an iron gall or something else that won't be completely removed by a watercolour wash. Beyond that, anything goes.
Yes, I can understand this. I never use bulletproof ink (assuming it's Noodler's) but have a couple of inks that I consider "more water resistant" that I generally use for addressing envelopes. The main priority is that they don't stain my ink windows and they wash out easily :)

Yes, it's Noodler's heart of darkness. I don't actually how well (or if) it washes out – it's in a Safari that's constantly refilled.

Come to think of it, I also have heart of darkness in a Noodler's Charlie eyedropper pen that's constantly topped up, though in that case it's more a case of rehydrating evaporated ink than topping up with fresh ink, so more like 'edge of darkness' than heart of darkness. :)

[Gobblecup]

I need my ink to be 100% waterproof when I put a watercolour wash over the top. A few reportedly waterproof inks that are OK for a larger spillage are still a bit smudgy with only a tiny bit of water (noodlers etc) so the only one I've found to be any good for me is de atramentis black document ink. There was a thread on here where people found it feathers and didn't like it but with my Xxxf nib and sketchbook paper it's perfect. If I've no intention of washing over it then I not fussed about waterproofness, the other media in my sketchbook would be ruined in the wet too so I try and keep it dry.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I just discovered De Atramentis document inks and I’m very impressed with them, they seem perfectly suited to a watercolor wash, and don’t smudge or smear one bit!

[jar]

Never much worried about it.

[Chrissy]

One pen with a bulletproof ink is dedicated to addressing envelopes and there's usually at least one with an iron gall or something else that won't be completely removed by a watercolour wash. Beyond that, anything goes.
Yes, I can understand this. I never use bulletproof ink (assuming it's Noodler's) but have a couple of inks that I consider "more water resistant" that I generally use for addressing envelopes. The main priority is that they don't stain my ink windows and they wash out easily :)

I use a bulletproof black eel from Noodler’s for most of my addressing, I always have a Safari inked up with it.
Which inks do you use for this purpose?
I bought a random bottle of Montblanc B-B ink on ebay, and it seems to be a waterproof version. So if I'm particularly concerned about rain smearing an address on an envelope, I might fill a pen with that, and use it for addressing envelopes. Otherwise, I just use whatever I happen to have in a pen, that might be more waterproof than anything else I have in any other pen, and rub the bottom of a candle over it. :)

[azkid]

Well, since I just wrecked a carefully addressed envelope by setting it down on the smallest drop of water on the counter... [emoji35] I am suddenly much more interested in waterproof ink.

[penwash]

Never much worried about it.

I'm with JAR.

Everything will perish in the end, that's why I upload my sketches to "The Cloud" :D

[welch]

Never much worried about it.

I, also, feel the same as JAR. I put my writing in a folder / notebook, and it lasts as long as I want. When I'm working on something, I put coffee off to the side. Same with coke or seltzer bottles. After a while, it becomes a habit.

As a kid, we learned to put things in a three-ring binder. If it rained, we tucked the binder and our text books under our raincoats. Yes, that was back in the olden dayes, when we walked to school, along the edge of a farm, proudly carrying our Sheaffer school pens. (see the great FPG post about Sheaffer and their school pens.)

Now, I avoid inks that want to attach to clothes or the wood floor in our apartment.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Well, since I just wrecked a carefully addressed envelope by setting it down on the smallest drop of water on the counter... [emoji35] I am suddenly much more interested in waterproof ink.

This is why I address envelopes with gel pens. But don't tell anyone.

[Gobblecup]

Wow, so far it seems I’m firmly in the minority for demanding water resistant and archival grade inks. I guess it makes sense why so few ink manufacturers actually cater to this now! 😂

[Wuddus]

Well, since I just wrecked a carefully addressed envelope by setting it down on the smallest drop of water on the counter... [emoji35] I am suddenly much more interested in waterproof ink.

This is why I address envelopes with gel pens. But don't tell anyone.

Yup, ballpoints here.

[carlos.q]

Wow, so far it seems I’m firmly in the minority for demanding water resistant and archival grade inks. I guess it makes sense why so few ink manufacturers actually cater to this now! 😂
I like water resistant inks as I have had my fair share of mishaps with water. Keep in mind that there is a difference between water resistant inks, waterproof inks and archival inks. I have found that some simple dye inks can be sufficiently water resistant so that you won't lose your writing if the paper gets wet (such as Namiki/Pilot Blue or Blue-Black). JetPens offers an interesting guide to some of these:
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/waterproof-fountain-pen-inks/pt/829



PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

[Gobblecup]

Wow, so far it seems I’m firmly in the minority for demanding water resistant and archival grade inks. I guess it makes sense why so few ink manufacturers actually cater to this now! 😂
I like water resistant inks as I have had my fair share of mishaps with water. Keep in mind that there is a difference between water resistant inks, waterproof inks and archival inks. I have found that some simple dye inks can be sufficiently water resistant so that you won't lose your writing if the paper gets wet (such as Namiki/Pilot Blue or Blue-Black). JetPens offers an interesting guide to some of these:
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/waterproof-fountain-pen-inks/pt/829



PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

I’ve found quite a few Sailor Jentle inks can be water resistant but not waterproof like certain Noodler’s and De Atramentis inks are. I’ve found water resistant is my low bar and waterproof and archival (which usually go hand in hand I’ve found (at least with Noodler’s and De Atramentis)) is my high bar. I’ll journal in water resistant inks but when it comes to more important school notes and other things I want to last for longer periods I go for the waterproof and more archival quality inks. This jetpens resource is awesome by the way, thanks for sharing it!

[azkid]

PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

That is what I ended up doing after doing a new envelope. I am still going to figure out a water resistant or proof ink to use for checks and envelopes though.

[Gobblecup]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming! :)

[Wuddus]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming! :)

Valid points throughout.

If I want permanent, I have ballpoints, gel pens, fibre tips, italic fibre tips, fine liners, and if all else fails, a laser printer. I do accept that fountain pens need a little extra care and attention, and a little extra is all I'm prepared to give them.

In truth, all my fountain pens are cheap, and if I screwed up my most expensive one, I'd only be down £10, but that's not the point. In reality, I don't actually need any fountain pens at all, as I can marks on paper a myriad of other ways. To me, they're just fun, and I want to keep it that way. Permanent inks are a level of complexity that I don't need right now. I don't want to worry about them, I just want to enjoy them, which is why I bought cheap in the first place :D

If I was going to get any waterproof inks, I would use a bow pen (got one already) or a dip pen (not got yet). A bow pen is a doddle to clean, and dip pen nibs are too. All the fun without the worry and headache.

[Gobblecup]

I should add to earlier statements that (in my humble opinion) both faded and water washed writing from any writing instrument, fountain pens included, just doesn’t seem very functional or practical. It’s not so much that what I write is the most important stuff ever written, or even that anyone but myself may ever read it. But, I can’t use ballpoints because of joint pain in my hands that gets much worse with the pressure require for ballpoint writing, and I also hate the way they feel on paper (which is less of a practical thing). Therefore, I demand that my fountain pens and inks perform practically, in part by not being so easily washed or faded as 90% (my guesstimate) of fountain pen inks are. I guess what I’m saying is something like fountain pens should be practical, useful and somewhat hardy even though they are often considered a luxury item nowadays.

I understand some people can’t be bothered to worry about these things. But when it comes to pen maintenance, and the higher maintenance required of most waterproof and archival bulletproof or nano particle inks, I have already long accepted that using fountain pens requires lots of maintenance. To use a little ammonia, and/or flush between every fill isn’t a really big deal to me, I’d do it anyways using low maintenance inks. But of course, to each their own, I wouldn’t want to detract anyone from the fountain pen because of high maintenance inks. For me personally it’s just not a big deal, I know my pens need the TLC to stay happy in my service.

It’s really interesting getting others opinions on this though, please keep them coming! :)

Valid points throughout.

If I want permanent, I have ballpoints, gel pens, fibre tips, italic fibre tips, fine liners, and if all else fails, a laser printer. I do accept that fountain pens need a little extra care and attention, and a little extra is all I'm prepared to give them.

In truth, all my fountain pens are cheap, and if I screwed up my most expensive one, I'd only be down £10, but that's not the point. In reality, I don't actually need any fountain pens at all, as I can marks on paper a myriad of other ways. To me, they're just fun, and I want to keep it that way. Permanent inks are a level of complexity that I don't need right now. I don't want to worry about them, I just want to enjoy them, which is why I bought cheap in the first place :D

If I was going to get any waterproof inks, I would use a bow pen (got one already) or a dip pen (not got yet). A bow pen is a doddle to clean, and dip pen nibs are too. All the fun without the worry and headache.

Thank you for sharing your points, they are valid as well. Ultimately fountain pens should be fun! :)

My cheaper pens are Lamy Safaris and Al-Stars but most of my pens are a bit more expensive so I do get a bit more anal about upkeep. The only pens I’ve ruined were a couple of Noodler’s pens, which I mourned only briefly. I probably should get some cheaper pens as testers for inks, and daily workhorses (I’m afraid to take some of my pens out much). But, I have had the collector bug for years now, with fountain pens and inks. I have one dip pen but I never really use it, I probably should play around with it more often!

P.S. I’ve had my eye on the Wing Sung 3008 for a bit now, will probably pull the trigger soon!

[Wuddus]

Good call on the 3008. I've been having lots of fun with mine. I have wrecked and lost so many pens over the years, that I think I'll be stopping in the shallow end of the pool indefinitely. I only allow the price to have one digit before the decimal point :D I'm perfectly happy tinkering around like that, but I do appreciate that it would leave many others unsatisfied.

I too have arthritic hands, but not to your level. Extended writing with a ballpoint is tricky for me, but only after a page or so. I am certainly enjoying the lighter touch of a fountain pen. Maybe I too will take a different view in years to come. It certainly is interesting getting a wide spectrum of views too. I've learnt a lot in the past few weeks, and will not doubt continue to do so. I think I'll have the trainings wheels on for some time yet though. :p

[Gobblecup]

The training wheels are wise, especially on the financial side of things. It’s good to get to know what you like before making bigger investments in any case. It’s great to talk to folks with different or alternative needs and views on writing and understanding why they do things the way they do. I’m going on at least ten years with my fountain pen habit, I still have a hard time narrowing down what I like to just a few pens. I enjoy variety a lot, nib variety, color variety, size, shape, brand, etc. I’m sure you will find what works best for you as well and I wish you the best on your pen journeys! :D

[KKay]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

[Gobblecup]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

[SIR]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent ;)

[Gobblecup]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent ;)

What agent are we talking about? :o

[Sailor Kenshin]

PS. The rubbing candle trick really works...

That is what I ended up doing after doing a new envelope. I am still going to figure out a water resistant or proof ink to use for checks and envelopes though.

My checkwriting ink has been Noodler's Bad Green Gator. The only true waterproof ink I've ever seen...at least that particular bottle. Don't even think of putting it into any pen that cost more than $5, though, and prepare for it to eventually turn into shellac.

[KKay]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

I don't know about an orange one, sorry. I have Noodler's-Lexington Gray, Bad Black Moccasin, and Bad Belted Kingfisher. If you go to the Noodler's site, they have a pdf file that tells you which inks will have what properties, or not. I found that USS Texas is archival, which made me happy. (I love that ink and I own it) I have tried Chisholm Trail, and I must get that one day, I love it. I have also tried Texas Live Oak and liked it too, I would love to own it. I also have Sailor-Kiwa guro and love it, it is waterproof. I am not sure if it is archival. I also have tried Sei boku, and really liked that, especially in one pen in particular. I have seen Henry Hudson Blue, and I like it, but I've never tried it.

Many of the GvFC inks I've read are waterproof, or highly water resistant. Aurora-Blue Black has some water resistance, as well as Pelikan-Dark Green. Noodler's-Zhivago, Green Marine and Burma Road Brown have water resistance. These are just off the top of my head. For the Noodler's Warden Series inks, I would only keep them in a pen for a week, flush, then refill. Sometimes I just refill without flushing, but it is best to flush it. (Same thing for Lexington Gray) Don't let those inks dry in your pen, or you will regret it. I also have tried General of the Armies, but it wasn't a buy for me. I liked it but didn't love it. Some of the ink I mentioned is from Dromgooles in Houston. You don't have to keep USS Texas in your pen for a short time, and it is not hard to clean out of your pen.

Oh, and I would only trust Kiwa guro and USS Texas in a more expensive pen. (of those waterproof, and archival etc...) Chisholm Trail and Texas Live Oak might be okay though, that is up to you. I want to try more pigmented inks. I have tried Platinum Classic IG Forest Green. I like it, but I would only put it in certain pens. I would like to try more pigmented and IG light inks. I have Zhivago but it is not archival, but says it is waterproof. I would say it has a lot of water resistance, maybe not totally waterproof.

[Paddler]

Water resistance is an absolute must for my journal entries and commonplace book. Trash inks (those that run when wet) are only used for temporary writing like story drafts and experimental ideas -- things that will be put through the shredder in a few days.Why bother writing things down if they are going to be so fragile that they can't survive a little rain or beverage spill? You may as well do your writing on a computer.

[Gobblecup]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

I don't know about an orange one, sorry. I have Noodler's-Lexington Gray, Bad Black Moccasin, and Bad Belted Kingfisher. If you go to the Noodler's site, they have a pdf file that tells you which inks will have what properties, or not. I found that USS Texas is archival, which made me happy. (I love that ink and I own it) I have tried Chisholm Trail, and I must get that one day, I love it. I have also tried Texas Live Oak and liked it too, I would love to own it. I also have Sailor-Kiwa guro and love it, it is waterproof. I am not sure if it is archival. I also have tried Sei boku, and really liked that, especially in one pen in particular. I have seen Henry Hudson Blue, and I like it, but I've never tried it.

Many of the GvFC inks I've read are waterproof, or highly water resistant. Aurora-Blue Black has some water resistance, as well as Pelikan-Dark Green. Noodler's-Zhivago, Green Marine and Burma Road Brown have water resistance. These are just off the top of my head. For the Noodler's Warden Series inks, I would only keep them in a pen for a week, flush, then refill. Sometimes I just refill without flushing, but it is best to flush it. (Same thing for Lexington Gray) Don't let those inks dry in your pen, or you will regret it. I also have tried General of the Armies, but it wasn't a buy for me. I liked it but didn't love it. Some of the ink I mentioned is from Dromgooles in Houston. You don't have to keep USS Texas in your pen for a short time, and it is not hard to clean out of your pen.

Oh, and I would only trust Kiwa guro and USS Texas in a more expensive pen. (of those waterproof, and archival etc...) Chisholm Trail and Texas Live Oak might be okay though, that is up to you. I want to try more pigmented inks. I have tried Platinum Classic IG Forest Green. I like it, but I would only put it in certain pens. I would like to try more pigmented and IG light inks. I have Zhivago but it is not archival, but says it is waterproof. I would say it has a lot of water resistance, maybe not totally waterproof.

I’m looking into the GvFC inks now, while pricey they aren’t as expensive as my precious Sailor inks. I am trying to figure out which are considered waterproof now, it seems like some are and some aren’t. I did however order some more Noodler’s today, I’ve been wanting more green and brown, so I got #41 Brown and Green Marine. I’ll have to look into the Pelikan dark green. I remember having some of the Texas Noodler’s inks from Dromgoole’s yeaaaars ago, I’m pretty sure I used all of what I had, but I don’t make the trip to Houston too often.


I have tried the Rohrer und Klingner Scabiosa and Salix, but I don’t use them very often, I do have a bottle of each in my rotation, however. I prefer the Scabiosa. And I use Sailor’s Jentle inks a lot, but only find them water resistant not so much proof as they usually leave behind a blue but lose the rest of the coloring when washed. I have Tokiwa-Matsu, Rikyu-Cha, and Miruai (which from what I remember of my old bottle of Zhivago I had years ago is on the same super black-green spectrum).

I’m personally a bit afraid of the warden series! But maybe I’ll try them out at some point. And I haven’t tried Aruroa inks yet but might snag a bottle when I buy my next Optima (probably through Goldspot).

Thanks for suggesting the Aurora and GvFC, and the Texas Noodler’s I had forgotten about!

[Gobblecup]

Water resistance is an absolute must for my journal entries and commonplace book. Trash inks (those that run when wet) are only used for temporary writing like story drafts and experimental ideas -- things that will be put through the shredder in a few days.Why bother writing things down if they are going to be so fragile that they can't survive a little rain or beverage spill? You may as well do your writing on a computer.


Right there with you Paddler, I’m slowly phasing out inks that have no water resistance. I mean, there seem to be plenty of people that want them and will enjoy them more than me. Have you tried De Atramentis Document Inks? What do you think of them? I have a bottle of Yellow on the way, and bottles of Red and Violet, I think I’ll get some dilution solution and a bottle of Black next. They are expensive per ml, but the total lack of smearing and the mixability has me really excited! I wanna make the red a little deeper with black (I hope this will work), and mix up my own permanent orange! With some dilution I hope I can make them shade too.

I should add that the violet spent a week and a half in my Aurora Optima and I never saw any buildup, had no hard starts or flow isssues, and it cleaned out fairly easily. I was really impressed with it. (I did do a flush with diluted ammonia then several with ph neutral water, just to be on the safe side when I finished the ink supply in the piston and changed inks)

[stub]

We have a heavy monsoon season here with epic downpours and occasional serious flooding. Which is one reason why for years I was happy to just use Pilot blue and Pilot blue black so much. I have even once lost nearly every book and music score when I lived in basement apartment and it flooded knee high with water. But now I've branched out a lot with inks and have had a few soaked backpacks ruin notes. I sometimes wonder if I should give away all my inks and just go back to having one red, one black and a couple blues. Ah, simple times.

[Gobblecup]

I never knew there’s a monsoon season in S. Korea, and I’m sorry to hear about the flooding. We don’t have monsoon season in Texas, just really wild weather sometimes, including heavy thunderstorms which can pop up out of nowhere and flash flooding. Most recently for the wild side, a Tornado hit my family’s house here in February of 2017!
You never know what’s gonna happen, but that’s why I like my inks to be on the safer side. ;) Of course, no one has marketed an ink as Tornado proof yet.

[adhoc]

Not important at all. My work notes stay at work and my notes at home stay at home.

[SIR]

For me, water resistance is desirable but not important; as the majority of inks have little water resistance it is not something i think about when choosing a nice colour... and water resistance/tamper proofing can be added to pretty much any ink with a little in-mixing of an appropriate agent ;)

What agent are we talking about? :o

Add a part of a pigmented or other waterproof ink - obviously the colour of the original ink may be changed, but the waterproof ink will be left behind if washed. Also, if for example a red pigment is added to a black ink, you will then have tamper evidence as well as indelibility, as anywhere the black has been washed will be red!

[VertOlive]

Yep. Having only lived a year in Texas, I've had to run for cover from some spontaneous weather event many times already.

That said, I avoid waterproof inks. This because I write my journal in bed and do not want my hand tailored linen sheets stained beyond what the laundry can repair. Besides, I'd hate to miss out on the color choices available in not waterproof inks!

When I want to protect my addressed envelopes, I wax them with a candle.

Things do occasionally spill on written pages, it doesn't trouble me.

[MaxG]

I address all envelopes with Kung Te-Cheng and have no worries. That stuff is amazing.

[Gobblecup]

Yep. Having only lived a year in Texas, I've had to run for cover from some spontaneous weather event many times already.

That said, I avoid waterproof inks. This because I write my journal in bed and do not want my hand tailored linen sheets stained beyond what the laundry can repair. Besides, I'd hate to miss out on the color choices available in not waterproof inks!

When I want to protect my addressed envelopes, I wax them with a candle.

Things do occasionally spill on written pages, it doesn't trouble me.

Yes the weather here is so unpredictable, especially spring through fall, but we can have rainy winters too! And staining nice bedsheets would be a pity, I can see why you avoid the permanent inks for that reason.


I address all envelopes with Kung Te-Cheng and have no worries. That stuff is amazing.

I loved the bottle of Kung Te Cheng I had when I had it, which was years ago. I need to replace that bottle at some point actually. Lately I’ve been addressing envelopes with Noodler’s Black Eel!

[Jon Szanto]

I've never specifically forged an interest in waterproof inks, but I have eventually settled on primarily two of them: Sailor Kiwa-Guro and Namiki Blue. The former is fairly well-known for the property but the Namiki flies under the radar. I love the blue for many, many uses, it is one of my top inks and in a number of pens. The Sailor is in only one pen, a very fine-pointed Pro Gear, and it lives only to write on postcards. I have these two inks to use for postal items with exposed writing - while I live in the relatively arrid climate of SoCal, many of my friends live where water falls from the sky. I've never had a problem mailing postcards or envelopes to any of them when I've used one of these inks. I've felt no compulsion to look for any others, as well.

[KKay]

Gobblecup you are not alone. I also treasure inks that are waterproof, or at least water resistant. I also like to have archival inks on hand as well. I have a couple of journals that I write in, that I want to last. I have a wide assortment of ink. I have found the past year or so, that I would like to add more of these inks to my collection. I like to switch inks in my journal, as I find that visually pleasing. It also lets me know that I came to the end of a particular subject. I only have a few inks that are completely permanent. Most of my inks are for fun, but some are meant to last. I want at least water resistance these days for most of my ink. If it isn't at least recoverable with a little water, I won't use it in my journals anymore.

This is just about how I approach inks these days, I want my journals to be recoverable, and to have archival quality ink on hand. Do you have any ink recommendations for me? I’d be interested in any colors, but I’d love to have an Orange because I don’t have anything on that spectrum that is water resistant. I’m thinking I may have to get De Atramentis Document Ink in Yellow and try mixing it with Red (which I already have) and perhaps dilution solution to get some shading out of it.

I don't know about an orange one, sorry. I have Noodler's-Lexington Gray, Bad Black Moccasin, and Bad Belted Kingfisher. If you go to the Noodler's site, they have a pdf file that tells you which inks will have what properties, or not. I found that USS Texas is archival, which made me happy. (I love that ink and I own it) I have tried Chisholm Trail, and I must get that one day, I love it. I have also tried Texas Live Oak and liked it too, I would love to own it. I also have Sailor-Kiwa guro and love it, it is waterproof. I am not sure if it is archival. I also have tried Sei boku, and really liked that, especially in one pen in particular. I have seen Henry Hudson Blue, and I like it, but I've never tried it.

Many of the GvFC inks I've read are waterproof, or highly water resistant. Aurora-Blue Black has some water resistance, as well as Pelikan-Dark Green. Noodler's-Zhivago, Green Marine and Burma Road Brown have water resistance. These are just off the top of my head. For the Noodler's Warden Series inks, I would only keep them in a pen for a week, flush, then refill. Sometimes I just refill without flushing, but it is best to flush it. (Same thing for Lexington Gray) Don't let those inks dry in your pen, or you will regret it. I also have tried General of the Armies, but it wasn't a buy for me. I liked it but didn't love it. Some of the ink I mentioned is from Dromgooles in Houston. You don't have to keep USS Texas in your pen for a short time, and it is not hard to clean out of your pen.

Oh, and I would only trust Kiwa guro and USS Texas in a more expensive pen. (of those waterproof, and archival etc...) Chisholm Trail and Texas Live Oak might be okay though, that is up to you. I want to try more pigmented inks. I have tried Platinum Classic IG Forest Green. I like it, but I would only put it in certain pens. I would like to try more pigmented and IG light inks. I have Zhivago but it is not archival, but says it is waterproof. I would say it has a lot of water resistance, maybe not totally waterproof.

I’m looking into the GvFC inks now, while pricey they aren’t as expensive as my precious Sailor inks. I am trying to figure out which are considered waterproof now, it seems like some are and some aren’t. I did however order some more Noodler’s today, I’ve been wanting more green and brown, so I got #41 Brown and Green Marine. I’ll have to look into the Pelikan dark green. I remember having some of the Texas Noodler’s inks from Dromgoole’s yeaaaars ago, I’m pretty sure I used all of what I had, but I don’t make the trip to Houston too often.


I have tried the Rohrer und Klingner Scabiosa and Salix, but I don’t use them very often, I do have a bottle of each in my rotation, however. I prefer the Scabiosa. And I use Sailor’s Jentle inks a lot, but only find them water resistant not so much proof as they usually leave behind a blue but lose the rest of the coloring when washed. I have Tokiwa-Matsu, Rikyu-Cha, and Miruai (which from what I remember of my old bottle of Zhivago I had years ago is on the same super black-green spectrum).

I’m personally a bit afraid of the warden series! But maybe I’ll try them out at some point. And I haven’t tried Aruroa inks yet but might snag a bottle when I buy my next Optima (probably through Goldspot).

Thanks for suggesting the Aurora and GvFC, and the Texas Noodler’s I had forgotten about!

Yes, GvFC inks are pricey, but you do get a big bottle, and a very nice bottle at that! I have not tried #41 Brown, maybe one day I will. I also have Tokiwa-Matsu, Rikyu-Cha, and Miruai, they are water resistant? That would be great if so, I didn't know that. I love all 3 of those inks.

[Gobblecup]

Yes, GvFC inks are pricey, but you do get a big bottle, and a very nice bottle at that! I have not tried #41 Brown, maybe one day I will. I also have Tokiwa-Matsu, Rikyu-Cha, and Miruai, they are water resistant? That would be great if so, I didn't know that. I love all 3 of those inks.

I just received my bottle of #41 Brown today, but I have too many inked pens and haven’t had a chance to play with it yet. However from the reviews I’ve seen it’s very water resistant. As for the sailor inks, Tokiwa-Matsu and Rikyu-Cha leave behind a legible blue line but the green will wash away/smear. And Miruai will leave behind a very dark, blue black looking line, again the green will wash away. If I could figure out how to attach an image here I’ll post my water tests. I dunked half the page in water for at least 60 seconds.

[Jon Szanto]

You guys ever going to figure out how to trim replies? ;)

[Gobblecup]

You guys ever going to figure out how to trim replies? ;)

You mean cut out all the replies and just include the most recent post being replied to? I think I could figure that out.

Edit: there I think I got it. That was quite a bit of redundancy to scroll through!

Edit 2: also, sorry I missed your post Jon, I too love Pilot Blue, I’m working on trading a bottle of Noodler’s I don’t want anymore with another local FP user for a bottle of it, as I haven’t had any in a few years. As for the Sailor Kiwa-Guro pigmented black, I haven’t tried it, but I don’t use much black ink so I’m reluctant to buy more blacks (I’m already thinking of getting a bottle of De Atramentis Document Black in addition to two Noodler’s black inks (Bernanke and Eel) to use for mixing with other De Atramentis Document colors). I’m growing more and more fond of the De Atramentis Document line for the full spectrum of waterproof colors you can mix out of them!


Add a part of a pigmented or other waterproof ink - obviously the colour of the original ink may be changed, but the waterproof ink will be left behind if washed. Also, if for example a red pigment is added to a black ink, you will then have tamper evidence as well as indelibility, as anywhere the black has been washed will be red!

Sorry I didn’t get to reply to this sooner! Thank you for the reply, and I see what you’re talking about now. However, I’ve always avoided mixing say bulletproof black, or a De Atramentis Document Ink with inks from other brands, or in Noodler’s case even with other Noodler’s. Is this caution too much you think? Which inks have you found play friendly together?

[Jon Szanto]

You mean cut out all the replies and just include the most recent post being replied to? I think I could figure that out.

Edit: there I think I got it. That was quite a bit of redundancy to scroll through!

Certainly not a major thing, but when the threads get long and people get into 'deeply nested quotes', you can sprain a finger scrolling the page!


I’m already thinking of getting a bottle of De Atramentis Document Black...

I have a friend who's an artist (he's got stuff on FPG somewhere) who *swears* by DA Doc Black. He does all his illustrations with that first and then filles and washes with watercolors over the top. The ink Does. Not. Budge. I'm going to look into a bottle at some point but, yeah, I need more blacks like a hole in the head.

[Gobblecup]

Certainly not a major thing, but when the threads get long and people get into 'deeply nested quotes', you can sprain a finger scrolling the page!


I’m already thinking of getting a bottle of De Atramentis Document Black...

I have a friend who's an artist (he's got stuff on FPG somewhere) who *swears* by DA Doc Black. He does all his illustrations with that first and then filles and washes with watercolors over the top. The ink Does. Not. Budge. I'm going to look into a bottle at some point but, yeah, I need more blacks like a hole in the head.

I’m particularly interested in making my Red De Atramentis a little deeper with the black, but I’m sure it will come in handy for lots of things, especially if I delve back into painting with watercolors (it’s been over a decade since I have). I have noticed the De Atramentis Document inks, as you say, do not budge!! I love it, rich and vivid colors that hold up to any liquid thrown at it (even scotch!). That’s up my alley. I’ve got violet, red and yellow, and yes soon black and probably a few more in the coming months, along with the dilution solution to make them shade and more affordable per ml. That’s the only downside with them, the price!

[SIR]

Add a part of a pigmented or other waterproof ink - obviously the colour of the original ink may be changed, but the waterproof ink will be left behind if washed. Also, if for example a red pigment is added to a black ink, you will then have tamper evidence as well as indelibility, as anywhere the black has been washed will be red!

Sorry I didn’t get to reply to this sooner! Thank you for the reply, and I see what you’re talking about now. However, I’ve always avoided mixing say bulletproof black, or a De Atramentis Document Ink with inks from other brands, or in Noodler’s case even with other Noodler’s. Is this caution too much you think? Which inks have you found play friendly together?

Mixing inks is easy, the most important points to observe are mixing in a clean and sealable container, use very small amounts of ink (fractions of a ml), and make sure you leave the mix for at least 24 hours, just so as any chemical reactions which may occur have a chance to present themselves.

I'd never use any Noodlers ink, mixed or otherwise... Platinum Pigment inks seem to be safe with anything, as do Sailor inks, both of those I have used a lot of in mixes.

[Pterodactylus]

To my knowledge Rohrer & Klingner is the only major ink manufacturer which makes a real statement about mixing their inks.

R&K claims explicitely that all of their inks are mixable with each other.
The only exception is Sepia, which also can be mixed but they do not guarantee for the long term stability of these Sepia mixes.

[ethernautrix]

I prefer water-resistant/water-proof inks. Since I also prefer black, it's a no-brainer to use Noodler's Black. Not necessarily exclusively, but, yeah, almost always.

I do enjoy using other colors, but the vast majority of my ink use is black.

[wingwiper]

Water resistance is extremely important, which my go to standard inks are Noodlers and Iron Gall in my P45's, etc.

[MattiasW]

As I use them for drawing (without watercolouring), I dont care at all if the inks are water resistant, as I don't plan to drop water (or bleach, haha) on my drawings.

BUT... for me fade resistant is much more important. This is also harder to find information on. Most reviewers does not mention fading, probably because it is hard to test without time or because they don't think of it.

(I did write more here but realized I should start another thread on the subject fade resistance... )

[RudyR]

Iron gall and water resistance all the way baby. I live in the US PACNORTH and monsoons with winds are a daily event in the winter. less water resistant inks are relegated to quick notes that are easily disposed of.

[penwash]

To my knowledge Rohrer & Klingner is the only major ink manufacturer which makes a real statement about mixing their inks.

R&K claims explicitely that all of their inks are mixable with each other.
The only exception is Sepia, which also can be mixed but they do not guarantee for the long term stability of these Sepia mixes.

So does Callifolio.

[Wuddus]

I've just received half a dozen drawing inks today for using with a dip pen (that I'll be waiting a while for) and I'm going to give those a try for writing anything that I want water resistance for. I've never used this stuff before, so it'll be interesting to play around with. Obviously not much good for away from the desk, but out and about I still carry a ballpoint as well as a pocket fountain pen.

[chalkdust]

I am irrationally concerned with ink permanence. I have no explanation for my paranoia. I am consciously uncomfortable writing with any ink that I know is not waterproof.

[Kulprit]

Like most people, I assume, I make the majority of my ink choices based on an ink's more aesthetic qualities. That said, I always have at least one pen inked-up with something waterproof (or at least heavily water-resistant). In addition, I have a Metropolitan perpetually inked with Noodler's Heart of Darkness that is used solely for addressing packages or envelopes. I get enough rain-soaked mail with smeared or runny text, I can only imagine what happens to my fountain-pen-scribed addresses when exposed to the elements!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pw1224]

I generally have about 1 incident a year in which I manage to jostle a bottle or cup of drinking water and it gets on my papers. Fortunately, the only notes I lost were ones I really didn’t need that much any more but I vividly remember my frustration. I also tend to have sweaty hands so I prefer inks that are at the very least water resistant. I’m willing to risk the occasional ink stain. Sailor Seiboku is one of my all-time favorite inks. Noodler’s HOD and Kung Te Cheng are great but I won’t use them in all of my pens. I just got some Montblanc Permanent Black and really like that. On a lark, I scribbbled something on some scrap paper with the MB Permanent Black, let it sit for a day, then held the paper under a running tap for a while. I let the paper soak/air dry on my bathroom counter. No ink ran at all. Nothing disappeared. I’m impressed.