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ardgedee
May 13th, 2013, 05:18 AM
I was reading Richard Binder's site over the weekend, and at the bottom of his page about pen flex (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=pens/nibs.htm), he noted:

It’s important to realize that no modern manufacturer produces flexible nibs like the great old superflexible “wet noodle” nibs from the likes of Waterman and Mabie Todd.
Why is this? Do current pen manufacturers see no market for them? Judging from how desirable vintage pens with the flexiest nibs seem to be, there must be some interest in a modern-day version.

jar
May 13th, 2013, 06:12 AM
Yup, absolutely no market and far to high a liability. No major manufacturer could afford to make even semi-flexible nibs much less wet noodles.

inky
May 13th, 2013, 06:16 AM
I think that is right on. I remember seeing somewhere that most manufactures no longer have tooling or formulas to produce the old flex nibs. The startup costs in getting them back into production are likely too high at this point for most manufacturers to justify their production. It's easier for them to just offer a standard 14K or 18K nib with some spring and then focus on the next pen design or marketing.

manoeuver
May 13th, 2013, 12:53 PM
An explanation I heard is that the flexy nibs of old were cast. Modern nibs are stamped.

seffrican
May 13th, 2013, 02:00 PM
An explanation I heard is that the flexy nibs of old were cast. Modern nibs are stamped.

That's very surprising, since cast parts tend to be more rigid and brittle.

Modern nibs are stamped from rolled sheets that are stress relieved.

But is it not simply explained by the change in writing style when ballpoints became common? That seems to be when flex nibs died out.

Also, what is the real demand now? A few thousand a year, worldwide? Which big manufacturer would bother to tool up for that? (I'm guessing this is why we don't see new button or lever fillers being made either.)

GourmetPens
May 13th, 2013, 02:20 PM
I was reading Richard Binder's site over the weekend, and at the bottom of his page about pen flex (http://www.richardspens.com/?page=pens/nibs.htm), he noted:

It’s important to realize that no modern manufacturer produces flexible nibs like the great old superflexible “wet noodle” nibs from the likes of Waterman and Mabie Todd.
Why is this? Do current pen manufacturers see no market for them? Judging from how desirable vintage pens with the flexiest nibs seem to be, there must be some interest in a modern-day version.

Ah! Thank you for asking this! I've been wondering this for awhile. I love my wet noodle nibs and because I have this need to um... hoard things that are no longer made, I'm always wanting more... it would be so much easier if someone would make more! I guess it makes sense, the demand just isn't there. I suppose the price of gold wouldn't help either (though I imagine that factors into the price of vintage wet noodles..). Either way, it would be nice if there were a modern manufacturer.

GourmetPens
May 13th, 2013, 02:23 PM
Mauricio at Vintagepen.net has some information about it which I think is fascinating and makes a lot of sense:


Highly skilled nib makers performed up to 70 operations to manufacture a flexible nib in gold, many of which were manual operations, becoming an extremely labor intensive process. One of these operations was gold forging, a metallurgical process to temper the gold nib. Tight quality control measures were also in place. Finished nibs were assembled to fountain pens and employees (tuners) tested, examined, and carefully adjusted, set, and smoothed the iridium prior to those pens being shipped to the marketplace. Lots of skillful handwork and craftmanship took place to attain the high caliber of a performance writing nib.

Nowadays, with skyrocketing gold prices, the cost of the nib is many times the single component with the highest cost ingredient when manufacturing a fountain pen. Add lower demand for fountain pens compared to the early 20th century, higher salaries in most industrialized countries, cost cutting, the fact that most companies that used to make flexible nibs have either closed or are under different ownership, the fact there are less companies making nibs, lots of writers not knowing how to properly hold a pen and even less of them knowing how to use a flexible nib ... all these and other factors have changed the approach to make flexible nibs. Modern nib making does not include forging. Gold rolling is a great metallurgical process, but it does not achieve the same high levels of elasticity, flexibility and responsiveness found in forged nibs. Rolled gold Vs. forged gold is the main contributor for the tremendous difference between the performance of vintage and modern flexible nibs. Furthermore, there is less personal inspection and tuning in modern nibs. Machines are incapable of performing all the necessary writing tests in a flexible nib. They are not able to feel how these nibs perform and cannot conduct the necessary micro adjustments.

I'm not affiliated with Mauricio/VintagePen.net, I just buy my wet noodles from him and they're fabulous :)

seffrican
May 13th, 2013, 04:30 PM
Mauricio at Vintagepen.net has some information about it which I think is fascinating and makes a lot of sense:


....One of these operations was gold forging, a metallurgical process to temper the gold nib.

I'm not affiliated with Mauricio/VintagePen.net, I just buy my wet noodles from him and they're fabulous :)

While a lot of the rest of what he says is correct, or quite plausible, the bit I left in is just nonsensical.

Forging is not a metallurgical process, it is an engineering process. It does not change the composition of the metal, although it may alter the crystal structure. And tempering is a separate process, not part of forging. One can temper metal that has been cast, wrought, forged, or rolled. Or forge it and not temper it at all. Annealing would probably be important for a flexible nib to make it less brittle by relieving any residual stresses.

GourmetPens
May 13th, 2013, 05:34 PM
Ah, well, I know nothing about that all that stuff lol. But most of what he said makes sense, at least to me. I just ignored the bits that I couldn't figure out haha.

cedargirl
May 13th, 2013, 05:34 PM
Thanks Azizah. What Mauricio says makes an awful lot of sense (despite some minor technical inaccuracies that don't alter the thrust of what he says).
It's a shame they aren't made; but I'd hate to think what the cost would be, if they were.

jacksterp
May 13th, 2013, 07:15 PM
It seems to me that the new Wahl-Eversharp nibs are rather flexible. The ones yet to be released (ceramic) may be even more so.

There may be a resurgence after all should these pens sell in large enough quantities.

Someone with solid connections to TWSBI should get Speedy to comment on this question.

Vintagepens
May 13th, 2013, 07:56 PM
You see a sharp decrease in flex nib production decades before the advent of the ballpoint, a major cause being the widespread adoption of carbon paper.
I would also suspect that most business writing called for a pen with limited flex, as speed and legibility would have been seen as paramount. In any event, American pens of the '30s and '40s tend to have much less flexibility than their counterparts from the 'teens and before.

Jon Szanto
May 13th, 2013, 10:52 PM
I don't know if it hasn't dawned on anyone, or they are just keeping it to themselves, but the fact of the matter is that people don't write like that anymore.

In fact, handwriting, especially cursive, is yet another dying thing. There will always be enthusiasts and specialists, people with pens and inks acting like the writing equivalent of the SCA, but at the end of the day, veryveryvery few doing this. It really makes no sense on a big scale, and if someone where to attempt to make new ultra-flexy gold nibs, most people would balk at the price.

Times have changed. Enjoy the vintage pens. Once they are gone, the options diminish rather quickly.

pencils+pens
May 14th, 2013, 06:13 AM
I don't know if it hasn't dawned on anyone, or they are just keeping it to themselves, but the fact of the matter is that people don't write like that anymore.

People haven't written like that since about 1925. Spencerian script and it thick and thin lines had pretty much died out as the way handwriting was taught in schools by 1925. It had been dying since the late 1800s. The "ladies hands" also died, except maybe in the south, for the same reason. The ascendant Palmer Method, and its chief rival Zaner-Bloser, had no use for thick/thin lines or flourishes. With the simplified style offered by the newer methods there was no need for a flexible nib. The few flexible nibs that remained became very expensive relative to the common steel nib. Probably by the 1930s, flexible nibs were already luxury items.

Vintagepens
May 14th, 2013, 07:28 PM
I don't know the situation with dip pen nibs, but with fountain pens nibs, flexibility did not command a premium in the era under discussion.
So I would hesitate to describe flexible nibs as luxury items. Niche-market items, yes.

HughC
May 15th, 2013, 03:55 PM
I've found plenty of flexible nibs from the '30's and not always on the higher end pens. National made plenty, Conklin did and most I've come across on the cheaper lines and Wahl was a big maker especially with their adjustable nib that allowed "instant" choice. Into the '50's flex was still available from Eversharp and Sheaffer, today flex pens from the '30's can be had for very reasonable prices but a flex Sheaffer Snorkel commands a substantial premium over even the least common colours yet Eversharp ( think Skyline, Sympony) with flex are still reasonably priced. Of the 3 nibs that stand out of mine 2 are Eversharp ( one a Doric Jnr. with an 18ct adjustable nib , the other a Symphony ) and one a National combo.

Regards
Hugh

Sailor Kenshin
May 15th, 2013, 04:02 PM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

snedwos
May 17th, 2013, 06:21 AM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

They would possibly have to begin from scratch and re-invent the wheel. I don't know how much documentation is available on the process of making wet noodles.

This all feels very 41st millennium. Maybe in an archive somewhere on Holy Terra, an STC exists, that will allow us to bring back the gold nibs with which the God Emperor of Mankind set out on his Crusade to conquer the Galaxy.

Yes. I'm a geek. Of many varieties.

ardgedee
May 17th, 2013, 07:56 AM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

I have no doubt that it's possible to make one that's better for cheaper: Materials engineering, manufacturing consistency in volume and QC control are all much better and more precise than they used to be. Gold is much more expensive than it was a century ago, but if you're not stuck on having 14k nibs, you can probably get exactly the same feel out of other metals.

The question is whether it is feasible as a business proposition. Granted, modern writing styles don't call for it, but that leaves open the opportunity to sell them as art tools which happen to be also useful for writing in Spencerian hand.

Sailor Kenshin
May 17th, 2013, 08:39 AM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?

I have no doubt that it's possible to make one that's better for cheaper: Materials engineering, manufacturing consistency in volume and QC control are all much better and more precise than they used to be. Gold is much more expensive than it was a century ago, but if you're not stuck on having 14k nibs, you can probably get exactly the same feel out of other metals.

The question is whether it is feasible as a business proposition. Granted, modern writing styles don't call for it, but that leaves open the opportunity to sell them as art tools which happen to be also useful for writing in Spencerian hand.

I don't think of it as any but a teeny niche market. The modern 'flex' nibs you get aren't really up to older standards, but they still make pretty thin and flexy dip nibs. So the ability must be there.

ardgedee
May 17th, 2013, 08:59 AM
Sometimes it's a matter of finding a market... sometimes it's a matter of making a market... :)

In my dip pen days, I would have killed to have a fountain pen that worked like (and as well as) my favorite railroad pens -- this was long before I'd ever known about antique fountain pens and their flexible nibs.

Artists are always looking for new tools. So I don't think the business potential is nonexistent as much as an uphill climb.

snedwos
May 17th, 2013, 01:16 PM
These days, thanks to the power of TEH INTERNETZ, there is no reason why niche markets shouldn't be profitable. You can fairly easily get whatever anyone wants to whoever wants it. It's "long-tail" economics (Sorry, just read a book on the subject, and am excited with my little knowledge).

Jon Szanto
May 17th, 2013, 02:13 PM
A "little knowledge" can lead to incomplete and erroneous assumptions.

If anyone wants to look at what (appears to be) a successful niche venture goes like, the recent history of Syd Sapperstein (sp?) and the return of the Wahl-Eversharp company is a good start. However, it appears to be successful for a number of reasons, and might not scale down to something like offering wet-noodle pens.

fountainpenkid
May 17th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Maybe TWSBI will be the first... ;) :) :cool:

Mod_wolves
May 17th, 2013, 03:51 PM
Maybe TWSBI will be the first... ;) :) :cool:

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

AltecGreen
May 17th, 2013, 06:51 PM
Maybe TWSBI will be the first... ;) :) :cool:

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

fountainpenkid
May 17th, 2013, 07:06 PM
Maybe TWSBI will be the first... ;) :) :cool:

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

Yes. They already do the latter, I believe.

AltecGreen
May 17th, 2013, 09:12 PM
Maybe TWSBI will be the first... ;) :) :cool:

They'll probably be the only company who might. And if so my name will be on the list.

They would first have to make their own nibs and feed.

Yes. They already do the latter, I believe.

Feeds are easy if you have the capability to injection mold or machine.

Nibs are a different story.

hari317
May 18th, 2013, 04:02 AM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?
I believe one guy does. look for Romillopens "nib K"

AltecGreen
May 18th, 2013, 09:38 AM
But could a craftsman of today make a modern wet noodle? Is it possible?
I believe one guy does. look for Romillopens "nib K"

Alvaro is the only one I know of who does it. I believe the nib is vintage flex but not a wet noodle. The pens that takes the K nib are also around 1000 euros. It can be done but not at a low price.

Manny
May 22nd, 2013, 07:35 AM
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/gclef1114/Tutuguans/0522130934_zps6f425044.jpg

Sailor Kenshin
May 22nd, 2013, 09:59 AM
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/gclef1114/Tutuguans/0522130934_zps6f425044.jpg

Evidently, both.

I hope this is visible. There used to be many more wet-noodle vids on the 'tube' but they all disappeared.

That's pretty noodle-y. (http://youtu.be/l74Wo3kjs58)

Manny
May 22nd, 2013, 10:25 AM
There used to be many more wet-noodle vids on the 'tube' but they all disappeared.

This was the video that did it for me. (http://youtu.be/sJ8c2ZMsK8U)

Sailor Kenshin
May 22nd, 2013, 11:02 AM
That guy is a magician.

Did I read right and is the ink actually watercolor? I do own one flex pen, but it's a frankenpen picked up at a show for ten bucks. It has no cap. The gold stub nib is quite flexible but clearly alien to the eyedropper feed and body.

One of these days I'll acquire a real one.

Musinkman
May 25th, 2013, 11:51 PM
My understanding is pretty much what Maricio stated...that the process of "forged gold" no longer exists due to the cost of working the gold in that way. That process has been replaced by "rolled gold" which does not have the same properties as forged gold. That along with the craftsmen who ground, tested, and did the QC on the nibs in the old days...there are no such craftsmen these days. There is no demand for the craft and has not been for many years. There were no apprentices who learned the old nib master's craft so the art was lost. We have the Mottishaws, the Binders, the Zorns, and those guys...but how many really? Only a handful of true nibmeisters remain in the world. So if that is true, then there is very definitely a finite number of the old full-flex, superflex, and wet noodle fountain pens out there. There will be no more. As people like us snatch them up, the supply grows less and less. With the price of gold at insane levels, I hear that many of those wonderful, irreplaceable old nibs are being melted down into gold bullion. The day is not far off when we will look back and wonder how the heck we didn't buy every vintage 14k nib on the market while they were still affordable. Get every one that you want now, because when they're gone...they're gone.

AndyT
May 26th, 2013, 06:55 AM
My father was taught to write in the early 1930s, and he has an extremely light touch. At that time, in the UK at least, it seems that dip pens were the norm in schools and as anybody who has tried writing with vintage dip nibs knows, even the monoline models had a fair bit of flex. My suspicion is that the flexible fountain pen nibs of the time were more about feel than line variation, and everybody wrote with feathery light pressure compared to later generations who were brought up on ballpoints.

You won't see any very heavy shades in the Spencerian manuals, and the great American ornamental penmen all used super flexible steel nibs in an oblique pen holder (all right, W. E. Dennis was a goose quill man). Most fountain pen inks aren't well suited to making heavy shades either with their enthusiastic flow characteristics. So I think that those wet noodle videos show fountain pens being used in a more extreme way than was customary at the time of manufacture, and it's testament to the quality of the nibs that they can take the flexing and snap back smartly after all these years.

As for why nobody makes super-flexible nibs any more, I imagine it's just too labour intensive and too risky to offer a warranty on them. The Edison Pens / Greg Minuskin / Michael Sull Spencerian pen project fell through, sadly, because of nib problems, and since that was essentially a cost-no-object venture it suggests that some of the manufacturing skills have been lost. There's probably a lot of truth in the theory about forging: certainly going by how the process alters the spring properties of steel I'd guess it makes the same sort of difference with gold. So, keep an eye open for those Mabie Todds and Watermans.

Musinkman
May 27th, 2013, 01:09 AM
My father was taught to write in the early 1930s, and he has an extremely light touch. At that time, in the UK at least, it seems that dip pens were the norm in schools and as anybody who has tried writing with vintage dip nibs knows, even the monoline models had a fair bit of flex.

Oh yes, I know what you mean. The dip pen requires such a light touch; else you get snagged and a nice spray of ink across your page. I used to call it the "springy sproingy sprays", because the nib (without warning) would "ping" and at the speed of light the ink droplets appeared across my page. I didn't know why, since I never had that problem with my old trusty vintage fountain pen flexers. But I've learned since. You just gotta be careful with those things, and if that nib is flexed the teeniest amount when you go into a curve...get ready for a display of inky pyrotechnics. :)

ardgedee
May 27th, 2013, 04:01 AM
The dip pen requires such a light touch; else you get snagged and a nice spray of ink across your page. I used to call it the "springy sproingy sprays", because the nib (without warning) would "ping" and at the speed of light the ink droplets appeared across my page. I didn't know why, since I never had that problem with my old trusty vintage fountain pen flexers. But I've learned since. You just gotta be careful with those things, and if that nib is flexed the teeniest amount when you go into a curve...get ready for a display of inky pyrotechnics. :)

It's been quite a long time since I used dip pens regularly, but my favorites were often the ones with that kind of snap to them; when a nib was broken in and flowing well, it was amazing how quickly I could draw with it, about on par with pencil or conte. It wasn't too hard to keep under control after warming up a little.

A master (http://haemeandrobecca.blogspot.com/2011/10/my-dream-artist-ralph-steadman.html) (unlike me) could use the spray from that snap, and parlay the tactile qualities of an India ink to good effect...
3033

As I've noted, I'm less interested in using a flex pen for writing, and more for drawing. There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets -- even when emulating tools that don't ordinarily vary their lines much, like modern ink pens -- and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

AndyT
May 27th, 2013, 05:52 AM
There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets ... and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

One interesting (and inexpensive) possibility would be to follow up on Nathan Tardif's suggestion and try using a dip nib in one of his flex pens. You'd have to find the right nib, probably one of the "shoulder pen" pattern, ideally a boxful of them. And be prepared to do a lot of work on the feed. For instance, it looks to me as if a Brandauer Review Pen could be made to fit snugly into an Ahab with a little judicious grinding. If there's a suitable modern nib out there it could be practical proposition.

It seems that Peter Unbehauen has produced a few pens along these lines. SBREB knows more about that, in fact I egged him on to get one. :) Not sure if anything came of that, but Stephen did put a Brause Rose into a Noodler's pen in one of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Qnd1Z6LHg

Maybe not an unqualified success, but there's clearly some mileage in the idea ... the main limiting factor is having to use fountain pen ink. I guess that this was what gave Stephen the idea in the first place:

http://www.kalligrafie.net/drechselwerkstatt/fountainpen5.html

AltecGreen
May 27th, 2013, 03:14 PM
There is now a whole generation of artists who are used to getting line variation out of touch sensitivity on computer art tablets ... and I'd bet a new generation of wet noodle pens would be appealing to them.

One interesting (and inexpensive) possibility would be to follow up on Nathan Tardif's suggestion and try using a dip nib in one of his flex pens. You'd have to find the right nib, probably one of the "shoulder pen" pattern, ideally a boxful of them. And be prepared to do a lot of work on the feed. For instance, it looks to me as if a Brandauer Review Pen could be made to fit snugly into an Ahab with a little judicious grinding. If there's a suitable modern nib out there it could be practical proposition.

It seems that Peter Unbehauen has produced a few pens along these lines. SBREB knows more about that, in fact I egged him on to get one. :) Not sure if anything came of that, but Stephen did put a Brause Rose into a Noodler's pen in one of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Qnd1Z6LHg

Maybe not an unqualified success, but there's clearly some mileage in the idea ... the main limiting factor is having to use fountain pen ink. I guess that this was what gave Stephen the idea in the first place:

http://www.kalligrafie.net/drechselwerkstatt/fountainpen5.html

I've done this on a few of the Noodler's pens as well as a number of other low and high end pens.

The results are mixed. The Brause Rose is a good choice and better than a Gillott 303. The flow is never perfect and often the pen is a hard starter. Still, if you want to do formal calligraphy, a dip pen nib in an oblique holder is a better choice. A vintage fountain pen with a vintage flex nib is more stable and useable than a modified pen. A better choice if you want to modify is to take a gold Victorian dip pen nib and mount that in a large modern fountain pen. They can still be a little wonky but they are bit better behaved.

If you do want to try steel dip pen nibs, bear in mind they tend to be a bit longer and more curved than a standard fountain pen nib. Depending on the pen, I've had better success trimming a bit off the back of the nib and flattening the nib profile.

AndyT
May 27th, 2013, 04:40 PM
... a dip pen nib in an oblique holder is a better choice.

Agree 100%. But ardegee's interest is in drawing, so it might be something to play with. It occured to me after I'd posted that I might have to put my money where my mouth is and actually have a go at butchering a nib and a feed, but sounds like you've let me off the hook. :)

Musinkman
May 27th, 2013, 06:53 PM
I have a Noodler's Ahab, and I really have a strong aversion to that pen. I would not mind doing surgery upon it (with no anesthesia and a dull scalpel). I probably would too, except for a couple of things...1) I've exhausted myself trying "fixes" and "adjustments" to the Ahab, none of which ever worked. 2) I would not insult the Brause 76 Rose by installing such a fine nib on such a horrid piece of stinky plastic (or whatever it is made of). LOL!

Manny
May 27th, 2013, 09:56 PM
I have a Noodler's Ahab, and I really have a strong aversion to that pen. I would not mind doing surgery upon it (with no anesthesia and a dull scalpel). I probably would too, except for a couple of things...1) I've exhausted myself trying "fixes" and "adjustments" to the Ahab, none of which ever worked. 2) I would not insult the Brause 76 Rose by installing such a fine nib on such a horrid piece of stinky plastic (or whatever it is made of). LOL!
Send that puppy to me, I'll tame that sucker.

79spitfire
May 27th, 2013, 11:49 PM
I have a Noodler's Ahab, and I really have a strong aversion to that pen. I would not mind doing surgery upon it (with no anesthesia and a dull scalpel). I probably would too, except for a couple of things...1) I've exhausted myself trying "fixes" and "adjustments" to the Ahab, none of which ever worked. 2) I would not insult the Brause 76 Rose by installing such a fine nib on such a horrid piece of stinky plastic (or whatever it is made of). LOL!
Send that puppy to me, I'll tame that sucker.

I'll bet he would too!....

At any rate, a modern 'wet noodle' pen is likely to never come about due to all the factors mentioned in this thread. Their has been some reported success in 'noodling' a Noodler's Ahab by grinding the sides of the nib, but it likely still takes some mad sumo-flex skills to make it flex, let alone 'noodle'. My best writing 'modern flex' nib actually has almost no flex but some spring (Konrad Ebonite), and I don't want to muck it up trying for more (it really is the best Noodler's nib I have!)

The FPR 'flex' nibs show some promise, but aren't 'wet noodles' by any stretch.

I only have a couple of nibs that come close to 'wet noodle', both are Waterman's, a 52 and a 3v. For daily use they are a bit frustrating, as they tend to pick fibers off of the cheap paper commonly used now, and flow enough ink that drying times become a problem. Given the way modern life runs, we might have to be happy that you can still get Brause and Gillot nibs that perform so well.

Jon Szanto
May 28th, 2013, 01:41 AM
At any rate, a modern 'wet noodle' pen is likely to never come about due to all the factors mentioned in this thread. Their has been some reported success in 'noodling' a Noodler's Ahab by grinding the sides of the nib, but it likely still takes some mad sumo-flex skills to make it flex, let alone 'noodle'. My best writing 'modern flex' nib actually has almost no flex but some spring (Konrad Ebonite), and I don't want to muck it up trying for more (it really is the best Noodler's nib I have!)
Indeed.

The amount and variation in the flex of vintage nibs is a pretty wide range, and what none of the modern versions of 'flex' that I've tried come even close to is the ease of flexibility. That a nib can go from hairline to wide and back isn't really the issue, it is how easily, smoothly, and quickly this can be done. If you have to bear down, if you have to make each and every motion and pressure a calculated move, it is hard to imagine you can get a beautiful script that flows.

I have a variety of older pens with gold flex nibs, and they run from "easily flexed yet can write without it" to what I imagine is a true noodle. The nib on a little Wahl gold ring top just sits there, you look at it and - BOOM - it looks back and says "What? You wanted me to flex, didn't you? I mean, you thought that, right??"

All good fountain pens, flex or not, should make ink flow on paper as an extension of your thought process. Bearing down on a modern steel nib just doesn't do that for me.

AndyT
May 28th, 2013, 03:13 AM
... what none of the modern versions of 'flex' that I've tried come even close to is the ease of flexibility. That a nib can go from hairline to wide and back isn't really the issue, it is how easily, smoothly, and quickly this can be done.

Quite so, nicely expresssed.

I think this business of flex writing is subject to a lot of unrealistic expectations. Classic Spencerian is certainly achievable with a fountain pen, but making a serious attempt at Ornamental styles or engrossers script means using an oblique penholder and some very twitchy nibs - not a trivial undertaking, certainly too much for me. So I think that the best one can hope for from a fountain pen is that it will make light to moderate shades with a pleasing ease, and that's what the old Mabie Todds and Watermans do so well, amongst others.

Yet it seems that some people buy a Noodler's pen and expect to be able to write like Louis Madarasz, which is a shame because it sets them up for a keen disappointment and it's rather unfair on Nathan. What you get in fact is a pen with a bit of a spring in its step, and some interesting design features not usually seen at the price point ... which is pretty good really. The Ahab's form factor doesn't suit me at all, but I do like the Nib Creaper for general writing, and they're both admirably easy to clean and service.

Manny
June 2nd, 2013, 05:19 AM
Don't know if anyone else has seen this link. I came across it while perusing that "other" place.
I didn't come across any flex nib info, but the description of how nibs were made (pages 8 -10) was kinda sorta interesting.

Phil Hull Memories (http://facstaff.uww.edu/pellizzt/books/Philip%20Hull%20Memories.pdf)