Evolution of Balance section, outside threaded to smooth

[FredRydr]

For the early oversize Balances:

Can anyone direct me to an online description and illustration comparing long threaded sections with short smooth sections? I want to understand the mating surface between the barrel and section of the long threaded section. See photos below.

TIA

Edited to greatly simplify. (Ignore the title of this thread which it's too late to change, since it turns out Sheaffer made no such evolution.)

Short smooth section on threaded barrel:
41856

Long threaded section on smooth barrel:
41857

[Chrissy]

Is Richard Binder's Balance page (http://richardspens.com/ref/profiles/balance.htm) any good?

[FredRydr]

Is Richard Binder's Balance page (http://richardspens.com/ref/profiles/balance.htm) any good?
Nope. That was one of the places I looked.

[Roger W.]

Your long threaded section is a repair, whether factory or later is impossible to tell. The threads are black and the material is black and pearl.

Roger W.

[kirchh]

It’s not a threaded section. Undoubtedly, the repair person cut the threads off a black donor barrel and affixed them to your black and pearl barrel, and probably reinforced the joint with a cemented interior metal sleeve. When you attempted to pull the section, you instead broke the replacement threads off the barrel.

—Daniel

[kirchh]

To elaborate, there is no “threaded section” version of the Balance. Threads were cut into the barrel.

—Daniel

[FredRydr]

It’s not a threaded section. Undoubtedly, the repair person cut the threads off a black donor barrel and affixed them to your black and pearl barrel, and probably reinforced the joint with a cemented interior metal sleeve. When you attempted to pull the section, you instead broke the replacement threads off the barrel.

—Daniel
Close, but the two of you have shed enough light on the matter that now I understand.

However, the donor threaded part (whatever it came from) is affixed to to the original section, creating a longer "threaded section" that Sheaffer never made, to which was attached a nipple but no surface for mating to the barrel that had its threads cut away. The surprise to me was the barrel was shellacked directly to a metal band wrapped around the sac and nipple, with no direct mating surface between this Frankensection and the barrel. Interesting, but it turns out to be a weak repair for a user pen, leads to premature sac failures and makes sac replacement a problem.

[kirchh]

The donor part was affixed to the barrel with a metal sleeve. The section was then inserted with either a tight friction fit with the donor threads or it was actually shellacked in place (as sections sometimes are). When you tried to pull the section, instead of coming out from the barrel+new threaded piece, the donor part complete with metal sleeve pulled out of the barrel and came with the section.

—Daniel

[Chrissy]

Here is one I found on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pluma-y-Portaminas-Sheaffer-Balance-Excelente-condicion/263888339146?hash=item3d70f880ca:g:JrsAAOSwvc9WFj-K) and it shows the same section in the pictures.

[FredRydr]

Thanks Chrissy, that would be another before section. By the way, my two photos above are the same pen, before and after the repair. The green stain is from my constant use of MB Toffee ink in this pen.

Daniel, all that you've posed is correct, except that the metal band is not between the donor threaded part and the barrel, but instead, is between the sac and the barrel! I caved in and pulled the Frankensection again for the photo below (and because I still have yet to determine the source of the leak).

The repair was three years ago, performed because the repairman initially fixed a crack across the threads (along a line between black and pearl), but he flubbed it; the cap no longer engaged with the barrel! He took the pen back. He proposed replacing the threads with black threads because (to paraphrase) "it still would be correct as Sheaffer had black threads on later Balance pens," which I took at face value. In any event, this Balance with my favorite nib is a constant user, and reliability and strength was my main concern, so I gave the go-ahead. I never knew the structure of the repair, but the cap engaged the donor threads and the pen worked as before. Well, it did until the leak earlier this year.

I grew tired of my stained fingers, and I suspected the sac may have failed, so a few days ago I proceeded to replace the sac. I heated the barrel to soften shellac, pulled the section, and below is what I saw. How the hell am I supposed to replace the sac with that metal band crimped around it? I don't know what's inside the Frankensection, but two things strike me. First, the leak may be via the seam between the donor threads and the original section. Second, a better way to mate the barrel to the Frankensection would have been to separate the nipple function from the mating-surface-to-the-barrel function. Alas, I do not have the lathe or the skill to solve the latter issue.

I love the nib and like this pen - it's been a constant user for many years - and I've had no problem with the loss of the original black and pearl threads. I'm thinking: (1) Do I just move the nib and feed to another pen and be done with this barrel, section and cap? I tried that three years ago, and to find a replacement that had the same appearance was coming in at $300+ (while the repairman offered to fix the bad repair for naught). Or do I have the Frankensection and barrel reworked to be more like what Daniel thought it would be, and have a nipple and sac that plays no part in mating to the barrel? I'm leaning towards the latter with a more skilled repairman than before.

41895

[Chrissy]

Ahh, I see now. :)

It looks like the repairer intended the screw threads to be attached to the end of the barrel, strengthened by the brass sleeve, but once the sac was replaced on the nipple it's size increased enough that the metal tube would not come back over it. So the threads have now stayed attached to the section instead, and you can't access the nipple to replace the sac. The threads will need to come off the section, and be attached to the end of the barrel again before the sac can be replaced, and it's going to be difficult to pull those threads off the section with the old piece of sac holding them in place.

[kirchh]

Daniel, all that you've posed is correct, except that the metal band is not between the donor threaded part and the barrel, but instead, is between the sac and the barrel!

No. The metal band was between the donor threaded part and the barrel.

You pulled the section off, and it took the threaded part and the metal band with it, dislodging the metal band from the barrel.

--Daniel

[kirchh]

He proposed replacing the threads with black threads because (to paraphrase) "it still would be correct as Sheaffer had black threads on later Balance pens," which I took at face value.
That is incorrect. Later Balance pens did not have threads on a separate black piece.

--Daniel

[kirchh]

I grew tired of my stained fingers, and I suspected the sac may have failed, so a few days ago I proceeded to replace the sac. I heated the barrel to soften shellac, pulled the section, and below is what I saw.

You didn't pull the section, though that's what you attempted to do. You broke off the new threaded piece where it attached to the barrel, taking the metal sleeve with it.


How the hell am I supposed to replace the sac with that metal band crimped around it?

The band is not crimped around the sac. It's a sleeve that was used to connect the new threaded piece to the barrel. Since the repairperson didn't cut a mortise in the threaded piece and the barrel mouth to accommodate the sleeve, the barrel is smaller in internal diameter where the sleeve is, so the area where the sac is fitted over the nipple is now a very tight squeeze through that sleeve.


I don't know what's inside the Frankensection

There's the original section, a new threaded piece, a metal sleeve that joins the threaded piece and the barrel, and the barrel.


First, the leak may be via the seam between the donor threads and the original section.

No. The sac attaches to the section nipple. No ink would be outside the sac/section space.


Second, a better way to mate the barrel to the Frankensection would have been to separate the nipple function from the mating-surface-to-the-barrel function.

They're not related. The nipple is part of the section. The section is one piece of material.


I love the nib and like this pen - it's been a constant user for many years - and I've had no problem with the loss of the original black and pearl threads. I'm thinking: (1) Do I just move the nib and feed to another pen and be done with this barrel, section and cap? I tried that three years ago, and to find a replacement that had the same appearance was coming in at $300+ (while the repairman offered to fix the bad repair for naught). Or do I have the Frankensection and barrel reworked to be more like what Daniel thought it would be, and have a nipple and sac that plays no part in mating to the barrel? I'm leaning towards the latter with a more skilled repairman than before.

As noted, the repair was exactly as I've described: A new threaded piece was joined to the barrel using an internal metal sleeve. That is an acceptable method in principle, though it sounds like it was executed shoddily. The repair can also be performed with a simple butt joint or with a new threaded piece that has an integral tenon turned on it and a matching mortise cut into the barrel mouth.

--Daniel

[kirchh]

P.S. The leak is probably in the sac right where it is stretched over the nipple mouth; that probably was cut by the edge of the metal sleeve when the section was forced in.

--Daniel

[kirchh]

Here is one I found on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pluma-y-Portaminas-Sheaffer-Balance-Excelente-condicion/263888339146?hash=item3d70f880ca:g:JrsAAOSwvc9WFj-K) and it shows the same section in the pictures.

No; that pen has a short section and threads cut into the end of the black and pearl barrel:

https://danielkirchheimercom.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/black-and-pearl-balance-with-barrel-threads.jpg

--Daniel

[kirchh]

The green stain is from my constant use of MB Toffee ink in this pen.
That indicates you already had a leak before the repair. Possibly a crack in/around the nipple.
--Daniel

[FredRydr]

Daniel,

I knew you'd like this.

For the first time in three years, the Balance, still in three pieces, has been put away in my pen chest. It requires some thought.

Fred

[Chrissy]

Here is one I found on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pluma-y-Portaminas-Sheaffer-Balance-Excelente-condicion/263888339146?hash=item3d70f880ca:g:JrsAAOSwvc9WFj-K) and it shows the same section in the pictures.

No; that pen has a short section and threads cut into the end of the black and pearl barrel:

--Daniel
Yes it does, and I meant that Fred's pen in picture 1 post #1 was originally the same.

[kirchh]

Daniel,

I knew you'd like this.

For the first time in three years, the Balance, still in three pieces, has been put away in my pen chest. It requires some thought.

Fred
If it's any consolation, that nib was probably not originally in that pen.

--Daniel

[FredRydr]

If it's any consolation, that nib was probably not originally in that pen.
Now that's sick. But...I put it there years ago.

[kirchh]

If it's any consolation, that nib was probably not originally in that pen.
Now that's sick. But...I put it there years ago.
Sick in a good way?

—Daniel

[Farmboy]

If it's any consolation, that nib was probably not originally in that pen.
Now that's sick. But...I put it there years ago.
Sick in a good way?

—Daniel

If it was FarmBoy's pen he would be impressed--a good way.