Holy Grail of Fountain Pens

[calamus]

I went to see a doctor recently, and as he took notes I noticed he was doing it with a very attractive fountain pen. I asked him what it was, and he replied, "Oh, it's a fountain pen." He enunciated "fountain pen" very carefully, in case I was unfamiliar with the term. So after I explained to him that I owned several fountain pens myself, but didn't recognize his, he replied that it was a Visconti. We had a jolly chat about pens and inks (he mixes his own from two different Diamine colors), and in the course of the conversation he mentioned that the Visconti was his "Holy Grail" of pens. That started me thinking about the whole concept of a Holy Grail of pens, and what that would mean to me. What was my Holy Grail of fountain pens? And specifically, what was I looking for in a pen that would make it the perfect pen for me? Not so much a matter of am I looking for a vintage Waterman wet noodle or a Meisterstuck 149 or a Sailor KOP or a 1909 S VDB with a fringe on top, but more what characteristics am I looking for? What is it that makes that Visconti or that Pelikan or that Parker or that Conway Stewart just what I've been looking for? And then I thought it would be interesting to hear other people's takes on the subject, and therefore this thread.

[jar]

King Arthur: Hello! Hello!

French: Hallo? Who is it?
King Arthur: It is King Arthur, and these are his Knights of the Round Table. Whose castle is this?
French: This is the castle of my master, Guy de Lombard.
King Arthur: Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he can provide us food and shelter for the night he can join us on the quest for the Holy Grail.
French: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'd be very keen. He's already got one you see?
King Arthur: What?

Sir Galahad: They said they already got one.

[FredRydr]

Holy Grail? Yes, I've already got one as well.

[Big Nibs]

The Grail Pen is the one you are currently lusting after and cannot live without. Or the one you can only envision owning someday.

These things too shall pass.

[VertOlive]

Desperately seeking Sailor Black Velvet.

[Kulprit]

For me, a true grail pen would be the one pen that can do it all. Since no one pen can do it all, I no longer subscribe to the concept of a grail pen.

I suppose if all of my writing were of a singe type then I could anoint a particular pen a grail and set my sights on obtaining it. But as it is, my requirements are so diverse that every pen I’ve purchased thinking “this is it, the ne plus ultra” has ended up being just one of many needed for the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kaputnik]

I've gotten a couple of pens which were grailish at the time, a Pilot MYU, for example. But after a while, the enthusiasm fades a bit, and they become just one more pen that you're glad you have.

[azkid]

I don't have a Grail pen per se, but I do have some 'next pens' and a few 'eventually' pens in mind.

Eventually maybe an Eversharp Skyline. I think I would like to pick up a next level Pilot like a Namiki Heritage 91 or a Falcon. I was pretty impressed trying a couple recently. I have a few low cost Chinese pens I want to try too.

I should probably take a break from pen buying and spend more time using what i already have.

[junglejim]

Desperately seeking Sailor Black Velvet.

Since you asked real nice:

https://youtu.be/tT4d1LQy4es


All the Best.

[Paddler]

I have mine. Now, I can go fishing.

[kevmid]

Be interesting to see in six months if that grail pen is still the one for your doctor.

I tend to think of grail pens in two categories similar to what has been mentioned above.

Grail in the informal sense of wanting to attain it, the next on the list, the current obsession. Not really out of reach but hard to get because I have to save up, or there are only a limited number, and so forth. Right now that is an Aurora 88 nebulosa or an Omas Ogiva Bloody Mary. This list doesn't empty but as Kaputnik says I am really glad I have them.

Second, in the true sense of grail there is the more unobtainable, ultimate, elusive pen that I can own but will take a lot longer to achieve because they are much more expensive and beautiful and widely sought after. Half of Sarj Minas' collection fall into this category.

So it's really more short and long term wishes. I think grail can have the meaning of insatiability, always striving, wanting, then getting and wanting anew. Contentment is a wonderful thing because there is no perfect pen, no finished collection and it is wonderful to write and enjoy and savour what I have. I buy and sell sometimes but am not on a quest.

[dankdan63]

Long time lurker... occasional poster here. I had to unsubscribe from the grail pen idea because, to me what is a grail pen? That magical thing that makes my collection complete and fits my description of the perfect pen that would satisfy me and again, complete my collection.

Then the self doubt overwhelms me. What if I already own it? What if in my search for the meaning of pen collecting, it was right there in my hands all along and I missed it because I was too busy chasing something else.

Please note that I'm at work right now writing with a Gama Popular ebonite pen with a custom ground architect's nib from China, and I gotta say, I love this thing.

Today's a good day, so smile dammit.

dan

[Sailor Kenshin]

I thought about this.

And I can't come up with one. I've bought a few pens that people in pendom have raved about and I thought were fine, but not for me. At one time I wanted Every Sailor Ever Made, In Every Nib, but I have all I need. That goes for Lamy, Waterman, Pelikan, and vintage, too.

Would I like a MB 149 (y'know, flagship iconic etc) if it jumped into my pocket? Maybe, but I don't care for piston fillers, and it's probably too big for my hand.

You would probably be appalled at the number of pens I've sold or donated, and I am still looking for pens to sell and give away. The fire to acquire seems to have left me.

[penwash]

I don't have one "Grail Pen", but I have many "Dream Pens".

Having said that, if anyone here has a sword clip (just the clip, I already got the pen) from a Parker Royal Challenger, I'd offer to buy it to complete my "grail pen" :D

[Medieval]

I don't have a grail anymore because whims are fickle things. Many people like what they can't have or haven't got, so it's never surprising how one feels about their grail pen after several months of use.

Would it still be a grail pen? Most likely not because whims are fickle.

[amk]

To me, it's the difficulty of achieving the Grail, and the Grail Quest, that is the point of a Grail Pen.

It's not just a pen you really want, that you can order from Goulet, or go and buy at a pen show. It's a pen that's difficult to track down, *and* that you really, really want.

So in Pelikans, the latest m800 couldn't be a Grail Pen because beautiful and want-worthy as it is, all I'd have to do is plonk my money down with one retailer or another. But perhaps the m600 white tortoise, because you hardly ever see it, or the Citroenpers m200 - those might qualify.

I don't think I actually have a Grail Pen now... but like Penwash I have lots of dreams :-)

[AzJon]

The entire allegory of the Grail is about those seeking who fail to find due, mostly, to their human nature. Gallahad was the most pure and good, beyond the capacity of normal people, and therefore was able to find the Grail.

Therefore, the notion of a Grail should represent, if it can represent anything at all, a pen that likely can not and will not ever by found or attained.

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

[calamus]

There are many apparent Holy Grails, but only one true one...

https://blog-cdn.touringplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/INDY_cup2.png

[VertOlive]

Desperately seeking Sailor Black Velvet.

Since you asked real nice:

https://youtu.be/tT4d1LQy4es


All the Best.

Oh! Yep. That's me, Texas Cowgirl Funeral Director!

[penwash]

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

Mine:

https://www.nibs.com/sites/default/files/product_images/pens/pen_image/11005%281%29_0.jpeg

[VertOlive]

Okay. Threads of this nature always get crazy so:

https://i.imgur.com/kmlGKQU.jpg?1

My other Grail Pen--Danitrio Chinkin Seiryu (Clear Stream) Fountain Pen on Densho

[AzJon]

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

Mine:

https://www.nibs.com/sites/default/files/product_images/pens/pen_image/11005%281%29_0.jpeg

are you sure your grail isn't this super neat Golden Queen? https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/25761-WTS-Golden-Queen-pocket-pen

:D

[penwash]

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

Mine:

https://www.nibs.com/sites/default/files/product_images/pens/pen_image/11005%281%29_0.jpeg

are you sure your grail isn't this super neat Golden Queen? https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/25761-WTS-Golden-Queen-pocket-pen

:D

Quite nifty! You should keep it ;)

[Jon Szanto]

People so often (especially young people) make the grail concept all about the money. I see kids on reddit calling a $60.00 TWSBI pen a grail pen simply because they don't happen to have the money in their pocket at the moment. I get that we are all in different financial situations, at differing times of life and all that.

But it isn't (primarily) about the money. Because if you have the money and you can just dial up that pen, it's hardly something that is hard, if not impossible, to attain or achieve.

So, yeah, I take a pretty hardline approach to what someone would consider a grail. The un-gettable nature of the beast has to be beyond almost all circumstances. The closest I can come is the following pen. It may only float my boat, probably ugly to some, and is not nearly as expensive as many of the ultra-top-tier items. On the other hand, I've only seen two available in about 6 years and missed both. This model of Moore pen somehow lodged itself in my subconscious and I'll probably be on the lookout for it for the duration of my pen interest. I sincerely doubt I'll land one, but the hunt is fun and keeps me coming back.


https://i.imgur.com/ZnhuD46.jpg

[KKay]

I don't have a grail pen on the horizon. I've seen several that I've wanted, but can't afford.

[catbert]

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

I have a transparent whale ...

42464

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Closest I've been is my Ghost Koi custom pen. That turned out to be an albatross in the end. Not because of the pen though.


These days I don't have a 'grail' pen.

[Farmboy]

Szanto
Interesting choice. Good luck, will be hard to find, noting the fun is in the hunt.

[Kaputnik]

Concerning the Holy Grail in Le Morte D'Arthur, only one of the three knights who achieved the quest returned to tell the tale. And of course, he didn't bring it with him. So hopefully we're not too literal minded about what a grail pen would be. But I agree with Jon Szanto's point, that ideally it should be something that's difficult to find at all, a rare pen that you can't get just by showing up at a boutique with a wad of dough.

And nothing that I have or want quite fits that description. Getting a Pilot MYU and Murex was just a matter of waiting for ones in good enough condition to show up on eBay. Getting some of my higher priced modern pens was just a matter of talking myself into finally paying that much.

But there have been pens that I've wanted for a while before finally getting them, "someday" pens, I might have called them before finally buying. And given that the luster of anything will fade after you actually own it, there is a further division. There are the ones which, over time, just become another good pen that you own, possibly with a regular spot in the rotation. And then there are the disappointments, the "what made me think I would want this?" types. Maybe that's part of what keeps me away from the really expensive pens, the $300 and up ones.

[calamus]

Perhaps a "White Whale" is a more apt description as that seems more in line with the obsessive searching (and periodic availability) of most "Grails" out there.

I have a transparent whale ...

42464


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c

[carlos.q]

"But I agree with Jon Szanto's point, that ideally it should be something that's difficult to find at all, a rare pen that you can't get just by showing up at a boutique with a wad of dough." :thumb:

Based on this very wise definition this is my grail pen:

42476

[Sailor Kenshin]

Oooo...shiiinyyyyy!

[FredRydr]

"But I agree with Jon Szanto's point, that ideally it should be something that's difficult to find at all, a rare pen that you can't get just by showing up at a boutique with a wad of dough." :thumb:

Based on this very wise definition this is my grail pen:

42476
Had these, and as lovely as they are, be aware they have entered the age of celluloid deterioration. It cannot be stopped. Luckily, there are a handful of craftsmen who can duplicate parts in modern material.

[calamus]

It makes sense that to be a grail pen it must be the object of a difficult, near-impossible quest. Still, it would be, I think, relative to one's resources. If $800 for a pen is more money than you've ever had at one time, getting your hands on a pen that costs that will be a difficult, near impossible task for you. And if you're a multi-zillionaire who can send out teams of buyers scouring the globe for a particularly rare and wondrous pen, it may be just a matter of waiting to see which team finds one first, or which team brings back the one in the best condition.

[Wuddus]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

[Jon Szanto]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

One person's hard work and disappointment is another person's engaging fun and adventure.

[calamus]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

The hardest part will be finding it for under £10.

[Wuddus]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

One person's hard work and disappointment is another person's engaging fun and adventure.

Very true, I can't argue with that at all :D

[Wuddus]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

The hardest part will be finding it for under £10.

I've still not found a reason to spend more ;)

[penwash]

Your Grail pen is the one that you desire most, spend years trying to hunt down, so much so that you become obsessive about it, but never succeed to track one down.

I don't have a Grail pen. Sounds like too much hard work and disappointment.

One person's hard work and disappointment is another person's engaging fun and adventure.

Now that's an elegant response. I stopped at "yeah, but..." :D

[calamus]

Be interesting to see in six months if that grail pen is still the one for your doctor.




I saw him today, only a couple weeks later, never mind six months, and asked him how his Visconti was doing. He broke into a big smile and told me he just got a new pen, and showed me his Pelikan M805!

[amk]

Reading some of these responses I began thinking along these lines;

the 'grail pen' is a Quest narrative. One pen to rule them all. It has either a happy or a tragic ending - you find the pen! at a flea market! for vastly less than it's worth! - or you never find it, or even worse, you find it and the Postal service manages to lose it.... It's very western, very Hollywood, very linear.

Then there's the happy Zen approach to pendom which is to float gently and when you see a pen, try it out, and when an interesting pen appears within your grasp, why not buy it? Makes a rubbish film, but it can also yield some marvellous moments.

I think there's room in the community for pen collectors and users of both types... but perhaps doing a little Zen can be a good corrective for those of us who sometimes feel we're getting a tad obsessive about a particular pen!

[Wuddus]

Reading some of these responses I began thinking along these lines;

the 'grail pen' is a Quest narrative. One pen to rule them all. It has either a happy or a tragic ending - you find the pen! at a flea market! for vastly less than it's worth! - or you never find it, or even worse, you find it and the Postal service manages to lose it.... It's very western, very Hollywood, very linear.



There is a worse outcome. You finally track down the item you were looking for after years of searching - and don't like it. Sadly, I have had this in other hobbies.

To (mis)quote House MD "Sometimes a unicorn is just a donkey with a sink plunger on its face"

[Jon Szanto]

There is a worse outcome. You finally track down the item you were looking for after years of searching - and don't like it. Sadly, I have had this in other hobbies.

That is merely a wrong approach in the first place: a pen I hunt has no guarantee that it will be some particular thing, any more than meeting a person I've wanted to meet for a long time guarantees a premium relationship. Things will be what they will be.

Disappointment is tied to expectation, and expectations can be calibrated. Nothing about the finding of a desired pen tarnishing the enjoyment of the search and eventual attainment for me.

[calamus]

INT - JOE'S HOME - DAY

Kathy slams the door in Joe's face, then flings it open a moment later
and comes storming back into the room.

KATHY
And one more thing, you son of a bitch. You
remember that marbled red and black Mabie
Todd Swan you were looking for for so long?
And finally found in that antique store, but
then the guy said it was sold and he was just
holding it for the customer?

JOE
Yeah? What about it?

KATHY
Well, I was that customer. I got it for you, you
bastard. It was going to be your birthday
present.

Kathy whips out the pen, shows it to Joe, then breaks it in half.

JOE
Nooooooooo!

Kathy throws the pieces down and stomps on them, and then grinds the
bits into the floor, leaving an inky mess.

[Jon Szanto]

INT - JOE'S HOME - DAY


https://media.giphy.com/media/UTT6QbG4EPOIE/giphy.gif

[SIR]

Be interesting to see in six months if that grail pen is still the one for your doctor.



I saw him today, only a couple weeks later, never mind six months, and asked him how his Visconti was doing. He broke into a big smile and told me he just got a new pen, and showed me his Pelikan M805!

Next time, ask him how he's doing with his 'addiction' ;P


People so often (especially young people) make the grail concept all about the money. I see kids on reddit calling a $60.00 TWSBI pen a grail pen simply because they don't happen to have the money in their pocket at the moment. I get that we are all in different financial situations, at differing times of life and all that.

Ex-fucking-zactly ... we could all go buy something beyond our means and quietly wait for the storm to pass and, whether you can justify the expense or not, is not relevant - after the fact!

Grail, unfortunately, is implicit of a certain psychological ploy - we know where it comes from and what sect was responsible, but yet we enjoy the innuendo and deceive ourselves into accepting it.


Concerning the Holy Grail in Le Morte D'Arthur, only one of the three knights who achieved the quest returned to tell the tale.

And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.

[calamus]

And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.

http://www.catolico.org/_ENG/jesus/head_crucified_bw.jpg

Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus

Most sweet Jesus, whose overflowing charity for men is requited by so much forgetfulness, negligence and contempt, behold us prostrate before you, eager to repair by a special act of homage the cruel indifference and injuries to which your loving Heart is everywhere subject.

Mindful, alas! that we ourselves have had a share in such great indignities, which we now deplore from the depths of our hearts, we humbly ask your pardon and declare our readiness to atone by voluntary expiation, not only for our own personal offenses, but also for the sins of those, who, straying far from the path of salvation, refuse in their obstinate infidelity to follow you, their Shepherd and Leader, or, renouncing the promises of their baptism, have cast off the sweet yoke of your law.

We are now resolved to expiate each and every deplorable outrage committed against you; we are now determined to make amends for the manifold offenses against Christian modesty in unbecoming dress and behavior, for all the foul seductions laid to ensnare the feet of the innocent, for the frequent violations of Sundays and holy-days, and the shocking blasphemies uttered against you and your Saints. We wish also to make amends for the insults to which your Vicar on earth and your priests are subjected, for the profanation, by conscious neglect or terrible acts of sacrilege, of the very Sacrament of your divine love, and lastly for the public crimes of nations who resist the rights and teaching authority of the Church which you have founded.

Would that we were able to wash away such abominations with our blood. We now offer, in reparation for these violations of your divine honor, the satisfaction you once made to your Eternal Father on the cross and which you continue to renew daily on our altars; we offer it in union with the acts of atonement of your Virgin Mother and all the Saints and of the pious faithful on earth; and we sincerely promise to make recompense, as far as we can with the help of your grace, for all neglect of your great love and for the sins we and others have committed in the past. Henceforth, we will live a life of unswerving faith, of purity of conduct, of perfect observance of the precepts of the Gospel and especially that of charity. We promise to the best of our power to prevent others from offending you and to bring as many as possible to follow you.

O loving Jesus, through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mother, our model in reparation, deign to receive the voluntary offering we make of this act of expiation; and by the crowning gift of perseverance keep us faithful unto death in our duty and the allegiance we owe to you, so that we may all one day come to that happy home, where with the Father and the Holy Spirit you live and reign, God, forever and ever. Amen.

[Jon Szanto]

Gentlemen and ladies:

In absence of a true and present administrator of this forum, I'd like to offer a public reminder that it is best we not go down the road of religion / not-religion, at least not here. Quite a few years ago we manage to get a subforum installed titled Politics, Religion and Society. You can find it in the main listing of forums. The benefit is that threads there are not any more moderated than anywhere else, but they do not show up in the "What's New" or the "Activity Stream" (or some such combination). They do, as intended, pretty much fly under the radar.

You are all savvy enough to know that these are tricky waters, so if you want to continue this discussion going in the direction of the past couple posts, could we ask you to kindly take it to that forum. Beyond straying from the honest nature of the OP, the territory is perfect for placement in that other forum. It will avoid contentious issues and show maturity on everyone's part to further the conversation in both parts/forums and directions.

Thanks. Just a request from one of the members-at-large, not an order.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

If a religious sidetrack is germane to the thread then it perhaps should remain in the thread, although I wouldn't presume to suggest that any specific course of action shows greater maturity than another.

[Jon Szanto]

If a religious sidetrack is germane to the thread then it perhaps should remain in the thread, although I wouldn't presume to suggest that any specific course of action shows greater maturity than another.

I would and I did. Lots of past experience and the reason for that subforum.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That doesn't invalidate my statement. Applying a broad brush is not always the best option, particularly so in a forum that kind of prides itself on non-moderation, self-restraint (with the expected occasional emotive parts), and freedom of expression.

Yes, explosions do happen. However, this forum has been around long enough, the denizens (mostly) experienced enough, to have developed its own homeostatic mechanism.

[Jon Szanto]

David, you just don't get it. Fair enough.

Your forum now. If anyone has any issues, be sure to contact David. Me? I'm tired of it all.

[calamus]

Gentlemen and ladies:

In absence of a true and present administrator of this forum, I'd like to offer a public reminder that it is best we not go down the road of religion / not-religion, at least not here. Quite a few years ago we manage to get a subforum installed titled Politics, Religion and Society. You can find it in the main listing of forums. The benefit is that threads there are not any more moderated than anywhere else, but they do not show up in the "What's New" or the "Activity Stream" (or some such combination). They do, as intended, pretty much fly under the radar.

You are all savvy enough to know that these are tricky waters, so if you want to continue this discussion going in the direction of the past couple posts, could we ask you to kindly take it to that forum. Beyond straying from the honest nature of the OP, the territory is perfect for placement in that other forum. It will avoid contentious issues and show maturity on everyone's part to further the conversation in both parts/forums and directions.

Thanks. Just a request from one of the members-at-large, not an order.
I really didn't know how to respond to SIR's hateful post. Posting an act of reparation for that individual's actions seemed a measured response. I felt I couldn't just ignore SIR's anti-Catholic bigotry. I have no intention of shoving my faith in other people's faces, but I will defend it. And I have no interest in discussing the matter further, in any forum.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

@JonSzanto. Actually I do get it perfectly well. Your arrogance in presuming otherwise is unwarranted and noted. The forum will survive the occasional flare-ups without the need for nannying.


https://i.imgur.com/tkxLl6Um.jpg

[SIR]

And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.
the insults to which your Vicar on earth and your priests are subjected



I really didn't know how to respond to SIR's hateful post. Posting an act of reparation for that individual's actions seemed a measured response. I felt I couldn't just ignore SIR's anti-Catholic bigotry.

Really?

I'd like to know your definition of 'bigot'...
Perhaps, you mean like intolerance towards different beliefs? Like the Catholic church has a very well documented history of - both against its own 'congregation' and others; i'm sure you'll be very grateful of my reminding you that the majority of Nazis in Hitler's government were Catholics, not to mention the close relationship the Nazi regime had with the church in Rome both during and after the war.

I'm happy not to discuss this further, but if you are so closed minded to need another to tell you what to think and 'beleive', then that is your choice. I happen to have a piece of paper 'confirming' me as a Catholic, however, the way I choose to think and act is most certainly 'protestant'.

We all have a right to freedom of thought and action, and we all have (if we know what is good for us) the responsibility to think and act with good intentions and with respect to the 'universe' (that's what 'Catholic' means, right?), and we should also be very mindful of not being fooled by others' thoughts and actions - particularly those who make such a great and obvious show of being 'good'.

I had no intention of insulting your faith, you'll find me quite an empathatic and understanding person, but i will not be shied away from expressing my own perception of the objective reality.

[Chrissy]

If a religious sidetrack is germane to the thread then it perhaps should remain in the thread, although I wouldn't presume to suggest that any specific course of action shows greater maturity than another.
It's not germane though, and I don't think the OP ever intended it to be.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I was making a more general statement. :)

[Kaputnik]

It's interesting, if rather discouraging, that an innocent reference to Le Morte D'Arthur would lead to such an off the wall digression. What happens if I mention Parzival? Maybe the dynamics of forums dictate that when we run out of things to say on the original topic, we go after each other.

It's also somewhat interesting that grail pens are being seen as ones that already exist, even if very few were ever made, and the chances of finding one are slim. One might also imagine them as pens that could, theoretically, be made to one's own specifications, resulting in the perfect pen for a particular person.

For example, I could imaging getting hold of a Waterman's 52 and some unused vintage celluloid similar to that used in Esterbrook Dollar Pens, preferably a dark red swirl. Find someone with the skills to build a piston filler using that nib with that material for the body.

Well, that's just me, and I might be underwhelmed when presented with the actual result. But the point is, do you chase something that exists because someone has made a thing that appeals to you, or do you imagine what might be, and seek to create it? (Or have it created).

And since that in turn has a potentially wider application, for the purpose of this thread, I'm just talking about pens.

[Deb]

From years of moderating a dialysis forum and working in others , I agree wholeheartedly with Jon Szanto. I have seen a previously very useful forum be destroyed for its original purpose because of the inapprporiate introduction of religion. Keep it to where it's meant to be.

Lets just not do this here.

[calamus]

INT - JOE'S HOME - DAY


https://media.giphy.com/media/UTT6QbG4EPOIE/giphy.gif

42559

[jmccarty3]

INT - JOE'S HOME - DAY

Kathy slams the door in Joe's face, then flings it open a moment later
and comes storming back into the room.

KATHY
And one more thing, you son of a bitch. You
remember that marbled red and black Mabie
Todd Swan you were looking for for so long?
And finally found in that antique store, but
then the guy said it was sold and he was just
holding it for the customer?

JOE
Yeah? What about it?

KATHY
Well, I was that customer. I got it for you, you
bastard. It was going to be your birthday
present.

Kathy whips out the pen, shows it to Joe, then breaks it in half.

JOE
Nooooooooo!

Kathy throws the pieces down and stomps on them, and then grinds the
bits into the floor, leaving an inky mess.

"Women are irrational, that's all there is to that.
Their heads are made of paper, hay, and rags."

~ Professor Henry Higgins, My Fair Lady​

[jmccarty3]

So many grails, so little time . . ."

[azkid]

Thanks Kaputnik for posing an interesting question.

If I could build my own Grail it would be a standard length / girth copy of a 1930's Sheaffer Balance with interchangeable nibs including gold soft fine and flex, international standard cartridge / piston converter, and would be decorated in black / rhodium / abalone like a Vanishing Point Raden Stripe.

[SchaumburgSwan]

Hi,

a Soennecken Präsident1!

Best
Jens

[BlkWhiteFilmPix]

To me, it's the difficulty of achieving the Grail, and the Grail Quest, that is the point of a Grail Pen.

It's not just a pen you really want, that you can order from Goulet, or go and buy at a pen show. It's a pen that's difficult to track down, *and* that you really, really want.

So in Pelikans, the latest m800 couldn't be a Grail Pen because beautiful and want-worthy as it is, all I'd have to do is plonk my money down with one retailer or another. But perhaps the m600 white tortoise, because you hardly ever see it, or the Citroenpers m200 - those might qualify.

I don't think I actually have a Grail Pen now... but like Penwash I have lots of dreams :-)

The Grail is something to aspire to.

For a long time a Montblanc Meisterstück was my grail pen. First learned about it when a girlfriend told me about talking with her father about the Cross fountain pen I wanted after Cross ran a full page ad on it in National Geographic. Her father said "Get him a Montblanc," but she told me that was too much money. Then Guy Kawasaki mentioned Montblanc twice in his first book, "The Macintosh Way."

After eventually buying a 149 and a couple of 146's, the Jules Verne writers edition became the grail pen. Since finding a used one, my gear er, Grail quest is done. Back to photography.

May everyone enjoy their crusade.

[AndyLogan]

My Grail Pen....

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTA2OVgxNjAw/z/0ScAAOSwgQ9VkCKY/$/Montblanc-Semiramis-Fountain-Pen-Patron-Of-Art-Limited-_1.jpg

[SIR]

If a religious sidetrack is germane to the thread then it perhaps should remain in the thread, although I wouldn't presume to suggest that any specific course of action shows greater maturity than another.
It's not germane though, and I don't think the OP ever intended it to be.

Then again, use of the word 'grail' in the context is highly implicit of religious connotations... hence my reference to the crusades and the exploitation of religious fervour and chivalry on behalf of the various European nobility by the Pope.

[inklord]

...searching for the grail is nothing but a futile errand. as soon as you apparently got a hold of it, it pops up somewhere else and when you look at the grail you thought you'd finally secured, it turns out to be suddenly a quite ordinary representative of its kind. just find a pen you like, and another you like as well, and then another... :)

[kazoolaw]

If a religious sidetrack is germane to the thread then it perhaps should remain in the thread, although I wouldn't presume to suggest that any specific course of action shows greater maturity than another.
It's not germane though, and I don't think the OP ever intended it to be.

A grail pen is a term of common usage in FP circles
"Holy Grail of Fountain Pens" is uncommon, if not unique.
I do not read its inclusion as unintentional or a mistake.

[kazoolaw]

[QUOTE=calamus;249007][QUOTE=SIR;248986]
And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.





I had no intention of insulting your faith, you'll find me quite an empathatic and understanding person, but i will not be shied away from expressing my own perception of the objective reality.


Too late to claim your statements were "Oops, they just slipped out."
Puppet-master and whorehouse are words of disparagement, not compassion or empathy or understanding.

[KrazyIvan]

My grail is an Omas 360 Magnum (Vintage) and I have it along with a modern one. I remember the first time I saw it was on this forum. When SBRE Brown put his up for sale, I snapped it up. He bought another some months after that and I understand why.

[inklord]

... all of the above being said, however, there is an elusive pen i covet: the LAMY unic in black with a 14k nib in excellent or NOS condition.

[SIR]

And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.





I had no intention of insulting your faith, you'll find me quite an empathatic and understanding person, but i will not be shied away from expressing my own perception of the objective reality.


Too late to claim your statements were "Oops, they just slipped out."
Puppet-master and whorehouse are words of disparagement, not compassion or empathy or understanding.


You misunderstand; I did not apologise for my words but for the fact that they had cause offence - the words were intended as stated, the offence was not.

I have no compassion or empathy for any organised religion, and especially none for those which are parasites on our collective and individual conscience and livelihood.

I think you'll find the Catholic church (as well as many protestant churches, and denominations of other religions) is a gross hypocrite both in its mere existence and in its conduct compared to its teachings.

[catbert]

And the Pope and his puppet-masters laughed all the way to the bank and the whorehouse with all the nobles' charitable donations.





I had no intention of insulting your faith, you'll find me quite an empathatic and understanding person, but i will not be shied away from expressing my own perception of the objective reality.


Too late to claim your statements were "Oops, they just slipped out."
Puppet-master and whorehouse are words of disparagement, not compassion or empathy or understanding.


You misunderstand; I did not apologise for my words but for the fact that they had cause offence - the words were intended as stated, the offence was not.

I have no compassion or empathy for any organised religion, and especially none for those which are parasites on our collective and individual conscience and livelihood.

I think you'll find the Catholic church (as well as many protestant churches, and denominations of other religions) is a gross hypocrite both in its mere existence and in its conduct compared to its teachings.

Is it really empathy and understanding if only selectively applied? Seems more like agreeing with what you agree with and slagging off the rest. Which is fair enough, and not unusual. Just wondering about the label and relevance.

[catbert]

But the point is, do you chase something that exists because someone has made a thing that appeals to you, or do you imagine what might be, and seek to create it? (Or have it created).

I would have something made to reflect the preferences that have emerged from my accumulation so far, combining aspects of several favourites. Whether this would result in elegant perfection, crude Frankenpen abomination, bland imitation, or a weird mashup of all three remains to be seen. I would enjoy the process. I wouldn’t call it a grail because it seems overblown and absurd to call any pen (anything) that.

Failing a custom pen (since the maker I had tentatively identified no longer accepts commissions), maybe something genuinely overblown and absurd like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtawMnUlLk

[SIR]

Is it really empathy and understanding if only selectively applied?

Isn't selective application of such basic Christian charity what the Catholic church has so often done?

"From the birth of popery to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than fifty millions of the human family, have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors,--an average of more than 40,000 religious murders for every year of the existence of popery to the present day. Of course the average number of victims yearly, was vastly greater, during those gloomy ages when popery was in her glory and reigned despot of the world; and it has been much less since the power of the popes has diminished to tyrannize over the nations, and to compel the princes of the earth, by the terrors of excommunication, interdiction, and deposition, to butcher their heretical subjects."
John Dowling - The History of Romanism (https://www.google.com/search?q=john+dowling+history+of+romanism)

[junglejim]

PLEEEEAASSEEE- everyone, give it a rest!!!! If you want to argue about religion or lack of it, take your views over to the Politics and Religion forum. That's what it was set up for. I clicked on THIS thread to read and view other member's ideas of what their ultimate Shiney is.

Thank-you for your patience and understanding.

All the Best.

[calamus]

My own search for the pen of my dreams is particularly difficult because I live in a relatively isolated rural area where there are no pen shows and no shops selling anything more sophisticated than $5 plastic "calligraphy" pens. I know pretty much what I'm looking for in terms of features and performance and size and whatnot, but I don't know what pens will deliver the goods, and I can't find the opportunity to try any out. If I order something online, I'm ordering it blind, pretty much.

I've discovered that even though my hands are a bit on the small size, I find full-sized pens much more comfortable than smaller ones. I like gold nibs, and I like the look of gold, so rhodium-plated gold is right out. Two-tone would be okay, though, especially if the pen were otherwise exactly what I wanted. Smoothness and minimal feedback are essential in the nib. Wet but not a gusher. A very slight bit of give or springiness is nice but not essential, but as for flex, that's a whole other pen for special occasions, and would probably be a vintage Waterman or Swan. For a pen that I will use every day and love and cherish and call George, I'm looking for uniform line weight, fairly fine. I think a Japanese medium-fine should be about perfect. Sailor and Pilot both make M-F nibs that I'm aware of. I like the look and feel of the Sailor better than the Pilots, but the Sailor I already have had more feedback than I liked until Mike Masuyama worked on it. I may get a Sailor and have him work on it, or maybe buy one from John Mottishaw that comes with a tuneup. I've been curious about the Pelikan M600 and M800s with an EF nib, but they're probably out of my price range unless I save up for at least a year, and I haven't tried one yet so it would be crazy to scape together what for me is a lot of money on a pen I have no idea if I'd like. I'm not real picky about the filling system, although I want something I can flush thoroughly, so lever fillers are probably right out as well, even though some celluloid pens are so gorgeous they make me drool. Currently I'm leaning toward a full-size 1911, maybe a Realo, and having it worked on. I'm slowly salting away a little money every week, and in six months or so may be ready to pull the trigger on something. I've already changed the direction I'm leaning toward a couple of times.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Grail is poorly applied cliché.



Currently the accumulation sits at 6 pens. Five modern and one vintage.

If the desire to hunt for the elusive was to rise again, that object would have to embody the concept of wabi sabi. The first part of the quest is to understand what this concept represents at a cellular level. The second part of the quest lies in recognising this nature.

[pajaro]

[/IMG]My grail pen was a Parker 51 plum. I sought it for years but was always outbid. Finally I sniped one manually with seconds on the ebay auction. I liked using it, but I liked my first 51 better to write with. It resides in a nice leather pen carier someone left intentionally behind when he retired.

https://imgur.com/a/ncFjRBB

[SIR]

Grail is poorly applied cliché.

If the desire to hunt for the elusive was to rise again, that object would have to be embody the concept of wabi sabi. The first part of the quest is to understand what this concept represents at a cellular level. The second part of the quest lies in recognising this nature.

By my understanding, wabi sabi - as a state of mind, although desirable, is rare and hard to come by - yet as a physical attribute is fairly easy to find in material possessions, hence the value given to those objects that are in the same state as their creator originally first finished them.

[calamus]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

[Jon Szanto]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

I think a point can be made for seeking something we can love no matter it's condition, perfect or imperfect.

[AzJon]

I mean, if we want to be really literal...

https://chatterleyluxuries.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/products-1302473482IMG_50721.jpg

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

What is perfection?

Is it a new armchair, unblemished, unbroken, fresh from the furniture store? Or is it the super comfortable well-worn armchair that has molded itself to the owner over the years?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Must be Kon-Peki.

[inklord]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

wabi-sabi or shutaku much? well perhaps not... but perfection is an absurd category! if it is used for "pristine", it is equally absurd, since even the most careful handling leaves its traces, and eventually all ends up being shutaku - beautified by handling; or not, in which case the material artifact looks merely worn, tired and devalued: a clear testimony to its original worthlessness.

[carlos.q]

As we are talking about fountain pens I would say that perfection is in the eye of the beholder and his wallet. :wink:

[pajaro]

Or of pure chance.

[calamus]

I mean, if we want to be really literal...

https://chatterleyluxuries.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/products-1302473482IMG_50721.jpg

Noooo! Not the Templars! Where are Monty Python when we really need them?

[calamus]

https://img.memecdn.com/practice-makes-perfect_o_877054.jpg

[ethernautrix]

For me, a true grail pen would be the one pen that can do it all. Since no one pen can do it all, I no longer subscribe to the concept of a grail pen.

Which is why I have become an enthusiast of the Multiple Grail Pens Method(TM), or MGPM, an abbreviation that I'm certain will not catch on, alas.

Until I figure out the size and shape of a spacer that will provide a snug fit for a Pilot #10 PO nib and feed in a Nakaya Piccolo collar (or nib section), then a single Grail pen remains so close and yet so far.

Or maybe what I want is a Pilot Sailor-Zoom-type nib that writes like a PO at the high angle and a Fude at the low angle. Oh man! Put THAT into a Nakaya Piccolo Cigar! That could be my ONE pen.

No, wait! Make the Nakaya Piccolo CIgar nib section with a "neutral" urushi so I could use that section in the kuro-tamenuri or the heki-tamenuri or one of the other ones as my... dammit! Grail Fail! I don't WANT just one pen. I want only a few.. Not too many. You know. The Magical Grail Number (MGN).

That's my search: What is my MGN?

[pajaro]

I think it is more in human nature to wish for some new "grail pen" after obtaining one. Who will say "hold the fleeting moment, I have my once and forever grail pen?"

[penwash]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

In my case, I don't seek imperfection. But imperfection could lend an endearing quality to the pen which has other things going on that appeal to me.

For example:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4733/25610472498_4c35796c43_c.jpg

This big Keene woodgrain ebonite is very appealing to me, the way the pen handles in my hand reminds me of my Nakaya but as you can see, it's far from perfect. The nib is flexible and so satisfying to use. A calligrapher picked it up this pen out of several that he tried out of my pen inventory. And he later bought it.

[ethernautrix]

There is a worse outcome. You finally track down the item you were looking for after years of searching - and don't like it. Sadly, I have had this in other hobbies.

To (mis)quote House MD "Sometimes a unicorn is just a donkey with a sink plunger on its face"

Funny. The House (mis)quote.

But I did experience the finally getting after years of longing and then... discovering my tastes had changed. The unicorn, still ornate and beautiful, had become ostentatious compared to the hidden "grails" I'd been enjoying for a couple of years by then.

I know that tastes change -- the nature of life is change (yep, yep, got it, ojii-chan was the village Buddhist priest and all that, in a nutshell) -- so it was fairly easy to let the Unicorn go. [Un]fortunately, life provides plenty of practice in this lesson. Ha.

[ethernautrix]

My Grail Pen....

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTA2OVgxNjAw/z/0ScAAOSwgQ9VkCKY/$/Montblanc-Semiramis-Fountain-Pen-Patron-Of-Art-Limited-_1.jpg

OH WOW! This was my Unicorn! The one I had to let go, cos it turns out I didn't want a Unicorn! I wanted a couple of Shetland ponies, and I already had them -- hooray!

It is a beauty, though.

[calamus]

You guys can seek imperfection if it pleases you; I prefer to seek the closest to perfection I can find.

In my case, I don't seek imperfection. But imperfection could lend an endearing quality to the pen which has other things going on that appeal to me.

For example:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4733/25610472498_4c35796c43_c.jpg

This big Keene woodgrain ebonite is very appealing to me, the way the pen handles in my hand reminds me of my Nakaya but as you can see, it's far from perfect. The nib is flexible and so satisfying to use. A calligrapher picked it up this pen out of several that he tried out of my pen inventory. And he later bought it.

Clearly a lovable pen, warts, I mean beauty marks, and all. If it does and has and is what you want, and you don't require the plating to be pristine, you could even call it perfect. The concept (of perfection) is clear enough in the abstract, but when it's applied in the real world, there's a certain amount of elasticity that comes into play.

[KBeezie]

To me, a holy grail is an ever-changing personal goal, usually defined by one's own means of acquisition. Like at one time a Visconti HS Maxi was considered one of my 'grail' pen, then I got it, and then sold it. Or like before that a long murex was.

I'm honestly not sure now after 4 years what I would consider my 'grail' pen if I even have one that I really "must have". Would kind of like to get a large 2nd generation Eversharp Doric in black, but it doesn't really pop into my head as a 'grail' anymore like I felt my kashmir one being, rather just not exactly frugal to seek, and not a "need". I suppose if I had to pick something that was out of my reach, but would really like to have if I had a good opportunity that wouldn't kill me, it'd be something like Namiki Chinkin style pen or even Pelikan's variations of their Maki-e art work.

[AzJon]

https://img.memecdn.com/practice-makes-perfect_o_877054.jpg

This is why I've always preferred the German, "Übung macht den Meister" or "Practice/exercise makes the master." Perfect doesn't exist, but being a master of your craft does. As far as that goes, I've never met a true master that thought, privately, particularly highly of their work. Something is always wrong or could have been done better. Fix it next time. That is the mark of a master.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Maybe we should consider abandoning the use of the term "grail", as it is clearly inappropriate as a descriptor here.

"Must have" would be more accurate.

[KBeezie]

Maybe we should consider abandoning the use of the term "grail", as it is clearly inappropriate as a descriptor here.

"Must have" would be more accurate.

Makes a bit more sense to me too, considering grails are nearly impossible to obtain [which I guess varies from person to person], but a must have pen could be a common one that you just gotta have.

[calamus]

Maybe we should consider abandoning the use of the term "grail", as it is clearly inappropriate as a descriptor here.

"Must have" would be more accurate.

If you want to quibble, "must have" is a singularly poor choice, indicative of necessity where none exists.

Anyway, I think grail is a perfectly serviceable metaphor, implying a quest for something the seeker considers of great value. Furthermore, "grail pen" is a common enough expression, as someone else pointed out earlier.

[AzJon]

Maybe we should consider abandoning the use of the term "grail", as it is clearly inappropriate as a descriptor here.

"Must have" would be more accurate.

If you want to quibble, "must have" is a singularly poor choice, indicative of necessity where none exists.

Anyway, I think grail is a perfectly serviceable metaphor, implying a quest for something the seeker considers of great value. Furthermore, "grail pen" is a common enough expression, as someone else pointed out earlier.

I think "dream pen" is adequate. It implies both the intense fanciful desire to acquire a pen and the relative availability of said pen.

The Grail was oft sought, but never found, therefore, the notion that one could acquire a "grail pen" at all, via financial inability or scarcity, is nonsense. Only a few of many ever got the grail. Maybe if you are searching a pen from a vintage catalogue that no one has ever owned or seen, but was supposed to have existed and you found that pen, we can talk grails. Until then a better phrase to encompass the fancies, desires, and wants of someone yearning to buy a pen will need to be found.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Maybe we should consider abandoning the use of the term "grail", as it is clearly inappropriate as a descriptor here.

"Must have" would be more accurate.

If you want to quibble, "must have" is a singularly poor choice, indicative of necessity where none exists.

Anyway, I think grail is a perfectly serviceable metaphor, implying a quest for something the seeker considers of great value. Furthermore, "grail pen" is a common enough expression, as someone else pointed out earlier.

The grail (in the myth) is the same thing to all seekers. Why they seek it may differ but the result of a successful quest is the same. This is clearly not the case when looking at anything else. It is a singularly ill-suited metaphor for something that represents only personal acquisition.

The "grail" cannot be obtained by financial means. In terms of scarcity it is unique: there is only one. So, if you've got it I can't have it.



As for "must have", in common usage it relates precisely to things one wants and not what one needs. From a literal point of view you could argue the other way, but in real life it is not used that way.

"Dream pen" works for me too.

[catbert]

'Dream pen' is OK. 'Must have' has connotations of oft-recommended (by others) pens. 'Grail' in this context has always seemed faintly ludicrous to me.

What is the terminology in other pursuits? Do knife/handbag/whatever people speak of a 'grail' thing?

[Jon Szanto]

What is the terminology in other pursuits? Do knife/handbag/whatever people speak of a 'grail' thing?

You better believe the term is used in other hobbies and lifestyle cliches, certainly in collectibles. No one actually thought that *grail* was unique to fountain pens, did they?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

[Jon Szanto]

No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

Good luck changing everyone else to fit your viewpoint. I happen to agree with you on this usage and have tried for a number of years to affect change within pen communities and nothing will stem this tide. It's "grail" whether you like it or not.

[amk]

I don't know - holy grail may not be an exact metaphor, but I find it a charming one and it's been one of those little quirky things fountain pen lovers say, like frankenpen or unobtanium or nibmeister (a term to which I believe Oxonian objects quite strongly). I really hate the term 'must have': the only term I object to more is '100 fountain pens you must own before you die' - as if purchasing them after you die is an option!

By the way, my recent experience tends to suggest that the true Grail pen is the pen that you really really wanted but wasn't a Grail pen, until you didn't buy it when it was advertised for sale on FPGeeks ... and then when you decided you just had enough pen budget, had been sold. That's the real Grail, and like the real Grail, you never actually get it :-)

[Jon Szanto]

No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

BTW, OED seems to think it is perfectly acceptable:

https://i.imgur.com/iJVKGC6.jpg (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/grail)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Not saying it can't be used that way, just that it would be off-context given the mythology.

Personally I am looking for the chrysaor of pens. Being mightier as it were.* :rolleyes:









*Chrysaor, the golden sword of Sir Artegal in The Faerie Queene. It was tempered with Adamant, and it could cleave through anything.

[catbert]

What is the terminology in other pursuits? Do knife/handbag/whatever people speak of a 'grail' thing?

You better believe the term is used in other hobbies and lifestyle cliches, certainly in collectibles. No one actually thought that *grail* was unique to fountain pens, did they?

No indeed. Just hoped they might have something better.



No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

BTW, OED seems to think it is perfectly acceptable:

https://i.imgur.com/iJVKGC6.jpg (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/grail)

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.

[catbert]

Coincidentally ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABo_mIjA00E

[AzJon]

What is the terminology in other pursuits? Do knife/handbag/whatever people speak of a 'grail' thing?

You better believe the term is used in other hobbies and lifestyle cliches, certainly in collectibles. No one actually thought that *grail* was unique to fountain pens, did they?

No indeed. Just hoped they might have something better.



No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

BTW, OED seems to think it is perfectly acceptable:

https://i.imgur.com/iJVKGC6.jpg (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/grail)

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.

Yes, among other words in OED, we have "fur-baby", "awesomesauce", "bruh", and "mkay".

Just because the OED says a colloquialism is used does not make it right or acceptable. ;)

[calamus]

What is the terminology in other pursuits? Do knife/handbag/whatever people speak of a 'grail' thing?

You better believe the term is used in other hobbies and lifestyle cliches, certainly in collectibles. No one actually thought that *grail* was unique to fountain pens, did they?

No indeed. Just hoped they might have something better.



No, but if it is used in any other context than the one it belongs to it is being used in error. There are fitter terms.

BTW, OED seems to think it is perfectly acceptable:

https://i.imgur.com/iJVKGC6.jpg (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/grail)

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.

Yes, among other words in OED, we have "fur-baby", "awesomesauce", "bruh", and "mkay".

Just because the OED says a colloquialism is used does not make it right or acceptable. ;)

And of course, "grail" as defined in 2 is not a colloquialism, so the argument that "Just because the OED says a colloquialism is used does not make it right or acceptable" is not even remotely relevant to it.

[Jon Szanto]

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.

Oh, agreed! My point in posting that was to show that the alternative use of the term, as evidenced in this community (and others) is recognized. They are not condoning it, just as I am not, but merely acknowledging it's use. No point in putting one's head in the sand about it.

[fountainpenkid]

Thank you EoC for elucidating why this use has bothered me for so long. It's not going anywhere soon if it's in the OED, but a few alternate terms floating around on this forum would amount to more than vox clamantis...

[ethernautrix]

How about your GOAL pen? GOAL: Got Object At Last.

[AzJon]

How about your GOAL pen? GOAL: Got Object At Last.

I suppose that sort of works. Still doesn't quite work for those out there that go from seeing their "grail" to buying and owning it within a week. I have no particular issue if someone wants to use the term "grail", per se, but the parameters are usually poorly marked. No, a Lamy 2000 isn't a "grail". Sorry. It just isn't. Neither is an M1000 for that matter.

For me a "grail" can not be a pen in current production. It can not be a recently out of production pen that was made in mass numbers. If it pops up on eBay (or any other sale sight) with regularity, it can not be a grail. Anything that falls into those categories are dream pens. Or perhaps lust pens? Sin pens?

No, if you can suddenly go get a pen because you got a bonus or a birthday cheque or what have you, your search was not so great and your trials too few.

[ethernautrix]

How about your GOAL pen? GOAL: Got Object At Last.

I suppose that sort of works. Still doesn't quite work for those out there that go from seeing their "grail" to buying and owning it within a week. I have no particular issue if someone wants to use the term "grail", per se, but the parameters are usually poorly marked. No, a Lamy 2000 isn't a "grail". Sorry. It just isn't. Neither is an M1000 for that matter.

For me a "grail" can not be a pen in current production. It can not be a recently out of production pen that was made in mass numbers. If it pops up on eBay (or any other sale sight) with regularity, it can not be a grail. Anything that falls into those categories are dream pens. Or perhaps lust pens? Sin pens?

No, if you can suddenly go get a pen because you got a bonus or a birthday cheque or what have you, your search was not so great and your trials too few.

But what if you said "at last" in such a way as to imply a long, arduous journey filled with obstacles, possible life-threatening? And that long, arduous journey etc. was like crawling through a desert for 30 years and drinking water, but not elixir water and then finally tasting that elixir water? Having a bottle of it? Taking a shower in it? That's a bad analogy, let's don't use that one.

What would you call a pen that you didn't realize was exactly what you wanted until after you'd bought (and collected OR sold/gave away) many, many pens, for 20-something years before you bought that pen and for around ten years after you bought it, having had (or still having) other pens that you thought might have been "the" pen (that other, careless people call "a grail pen"), and then you realized... Hey, wait a minute! This is the pen I've been searching for all along! This pen makes me want to sell/give away all (most) of my other pens, because I will use only this one from now on! Probably.

Cos (segue)... let's say you searched for the Holy Grail and found it. You'd still want a couple of close-but-no-cigar grails for casual use. I mean, if I searched for the fountain pen that Jesus Christ used (hypothetically!) and found it... I'd want to use it. Cos I'm not a collector. But I might want a couple of other pens cos maybe the "grail" fountain pen has this fantastic nib; it's perfect! But sometimes, you know, I don't want to use perfect. Sometimes I want a wider line or whatever.

Right now, I would posit that my "grail" fountain pen is a Nakaya Piccolo Cigar (which I have) with a Pilot #10 PO nib (which I also have), and I might be able to have this, because I mentioned it to my brother who has a marvelously genius brain for solving such technical puzzles. And tools. He has lots of tools. Like table saw-type tools, which I'm sure he won't need in order to make a spacer that will allow the Pilot nib and feed to fit in the Nakaya collar. (I'm going into detail only because I am giddy at the prospect that after a year or more of wanting this combination, this one "grail" pen, and even attempting it myself, I might actually get it.) (Have I suffered enough, though, for this potential "grail" pen to deserve the name "grail?" I might not get it, of course, in which case... does the pen remain a "grail?")

Does the pen have to exist already and be ever out-of-reach? Or can someone work hard for years (or a month) and build it oneself? Or pay someone to make it?

I'm pretty sure that "grail" (even or especially in common usage) is meant to express the aspiration to the ideal, which is impossible to achieve (and if attainable, impossible to maintain), which makes your point. Grail pens don't exist if you can get them.

Yeah. Good luck changing the cultural understanding of that. People still say "you can't have your cake and eat it, too." You can't teach them!

I should delete all this, or heavily edit, but... I like the part where I mention that I might get my "perfect" pen after all. Cos *giddy!*

I'll probably have to edit for typos anyway. *Crosses fingers*

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You don't come across many collectors of grails, seeing as there is only one. I guess you could be a collector of ornamental cups though.

[calamus]

The way some people are overthinking this, I'm starting to worry that someone is going to hurt himself. Or herself, but so far the ladies seem to be much more sensible than then the gentlemen. :deadhorse:

[AzJon]

The way some people are overthinking this, I'm starting to worry that someone is going to hurt himself. Or herself, but so far the ladies seem to be much more sensible than then the gentlemen. :deadhorse:

"All these dudes aren't agreeing with me, therefore they must not be sensible"

[Kulprit]

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.


Actually, that depends on whether the dictionary is prescriptive or descriptive. Some publishers are fiercely devoted to one or the other.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[catbert]

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.


Actually, that depends on whether the dictionary is prescriptive or descriptive. Some publishers are fiercely devoted to one or the other.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup — I liked pre-IPA Concise and more recently Penguin. Problem is, dictionaries list variants and don't consistently or exhaustively make choices or recommendations. A proper style guide is more productive.

[calamus]

The way some people are overthinking this, I'm starting to worry that someone is going to hurt himself. Or herself, but so far the ladies seem to be much more sensible than then the gentlemen. :deadhorse:

"All these dudes aren't agreeing with me, therefore they must not be sensible"

Obviously.

[calamus]

But seriously, isn't commenting for 2 pages on a (thusfar) 7-page thread on the fact that you'd prefer the thread had been named something else a bit silly, not to mention off-topic? Maybe instead of criticizing my choice of words, it might be a better idea to start your own thread entitled "Why the concept of a grail pen is deeply flawed." Then people who want to write about pens wouldn't have to dig through endless semantic, and religious, and other sorts of bickering and quibbling. And sniping.

[calamus]

Dictionaries attempt to record language as it is. They don't prescribe or condemn. Depending on your pet peeve, you'll find all manner of infelicitous usage and neologism in dictionaries.


Actually, that depends on whether the dictionary is prescriptive or descriptive. Some publishers are fiercely devoted to one or the other.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup — I liked pre-IPA Concise and more recently Penguin. Problem is, dictionaries list variants and don't consistently or exhaustively make choices or recommendations. A proper style guide is more productive.


I have a hard copy of the OED from 1971, the 2-volume set with the magnifying glass. I love that thing. I also have a copy of Fowler's from the 1930s that I enjoy referring to from time to time. English was so much more elegant not that long ago.

[KBeezie]

Seems like this topic always goes one of two ways :

1) Quibbling over what exactly a 'grail' is.

2) Getting upset when someone points out your desired 'grail pen' is common and can be had for less than a month of 'their' salary. (quibbling over the perception caused by ease of acquisition or lack thereof)

Not much use getting upset over perception unless it would cause actual harm to someone.

[ethernautrix]

{snip} That started me thinking about the whole concept of a Holy Grail of pens, and what that would mean to me. What was my Holy Grail of fountain pens? And specifically, what was I looking for in a pen that would make it the perfect pen for me? Not so much a matter of am I looking for a vintage Waterman wet noodle or a Meisterstuck 149 or a Sailor KOP or a 1909 S VDB with a fringe on top, but more what characteristics am I looking for? What is it that makes that Visconti or that Pelikan or that Parker or that Conway Stewart just what I've been looking for? And then I thought it would be interesting to hear other people's takes on the subject, and therefore this thread.

Well, 1) you asked for it. (Be careful what you ask for!)

2) Have you thought any more about what that elusive fountain pen would be for you, the one that could make you destroy (or wash and put away) all of your other fountain pens?

[calamus]

{snip} That started me thinking about the whole concept of a Holy Grail of pens, and what that would mean to me. What was my Holy Grail of fountain pens? And specifically, what was I looking for in a pen that would make it the perfect pen for me? Not so much a matter of am I looking for a vintage Waterman wet noodle or a Meisterstuck 149 or a Sailor KOP or a 1909 S VDB with a fringe on top, but more what characteristics am I looking for? What is it that makes that Visconti or that Pelikan or that Parker or that Conway Stewart just what I've been looking for? And then I thought it would be interesting to hear other people's takes on the subject, and therefore this thread.

Well, 1) you asked for it. (Be careful what you ask for!)

2) Have you thought any more about what that elusive fountain pen would be for you, the one that could make you destroy (or wash and put away) all of your other fountain pens?

1.) Indeed.

2.) In any event, at this moment I'm leaning toward an M800 with a fine nib. Not sure which one. Not even sure if it would be a new one or one of the older ones with a 14K nib. If an older one, it would have to be NOS, although in the real world I'd settle for near mint used. If I had to pull the trigger on one today, it would probably be a Renaissance Brown, but it'll probably be at least 6 months before I go ahead with anything that expensive. I would hate to spend that much and discover I didn't really like the pen all that much.

2a.) And before some clever wag points out that all one has to do is pony up a mere $500 or $600 or so for a pen that is admittedly relatively easy to find, even if it's no longer a current special edition, the quest for me involves identifying the pen that would satisfy my inordinate desires even more than making the actual purchase. In that sense it's an inner quest, which is compatible to at least some extent with someone somewhere's conceptions of a "grail."

[Empty_of_Clouds]

What's interesting about such quests is how they positively correlate to price.

[KBeezie]

What's interesting about such quests is how they positively correlate to price.

Now days that's what it comes down to, and if you have something that someone can't seem to find and wants it, the negotiation begins and correlates back to price especially if more than one person wants it.

Feel like the only other way around it is hitting up estate sales and such, and just hoping they don't realize what they have.

[calamus]

It's the law of the marketplace. The more desirable something is, especially if it's scarce, the more people tend to be willing to pay for it. Even if it was originally free in a box of breakfast cereal.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

While I understand the general argument of low supply + high demand = increasing price (basic economics as it is), I personally wouldn't want to hang my "grail" pen on such a peg.

[KBeezie]

While I understand the general argument of low supply + high demand = increasing price (basic economics as it is), I personally wouldn't want to hang my "grail" pen on such a peg.

I feel like if I ever got something I would call worthy of being a 'grail', I'm not likely going to want to use it.

[AzJon]

It's the law of the marketplace. The more desirable something is, especially if it's scarce, the more people tend to be willing to pay for it. Even if it was originally free in a box of breakfast cereal.

This fails to take into account the Sumgai Paradox: normally very expensive items found and bought for absurdly low prices. Some of them exceedingly rare.

[pajaro]

While I understand the general argument of low supply + high demand = increasing price (basic economics as it is), I personally wouldn't want to hang my "grail" pen on such a peg.

I feel like if I ever got something I would call worthy of being a 'grail', I'm not likely going to want to use it.

This has been my experience. It's not particularly valuable or rare. I sought it for years, disappointed again and again, so I thought of it as a grail pen. Plum 51.

I think some of you are too picky about definitions. If someone thinks of a pen as a grail pen for himself or herself, there could be any of a number of reasons for which the pen has excited that person to thinking of it as a grail pen. Just as there are many different tastes here, and each of you would defend your own ideas of taste

[calamus]

Since I haven't yet found what my "grail pen" would be, let alone found the pen itself, I'm not certain that it will turn out to be expensive, or even difficult to find. It may be that true happiness is to be found right here in our very own back yard in Kansas, Toto. But if it turns out to be an easily obtainable pen, how can it possibly be a grail pen? Or is that even an issue?

So far there is no consensus that such a beast as a grail pen even exists. It may be a chimera, a mirage, an illusion.

Poof! It is the nature of desire that the attainment of that which one desires, which one thinks will make one happy, almost always provides only a fleeting counterfeit of happiness. So there's that, too.

And then there's the above, if it were a true grail pen one might be afraid to use it. Or lose it, or break it, or have it stolen.

So then, in whatever sense a grail pen can be said to exist, what it is and means would seem to indeed be a highly subjective matter, and will pretty much differ for everyone. The more I think about it, and the more I hear other people's take on the subject, the clearer that much, at any rate becomes.

I'm also starting to think that there is no single pen that could ever be my ideal pen. There are several pens that have taken my breath away by their beauty or by how nicely they write and feel. And I own a few that I love and can't imagine parting with. So I'm starting to doubt that there exists out there anywhere, or could ever exist, a pen that I could call my grail pen or perfect pen or pen of my dreams.

[Lloyd]

My "Grail" pen would be so due to povenence. For instance, if I found my grandfather's school pen or the pen Groucho received for his Bar Mitzvah (I doubt these would be one and the same pen).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[ethernautrix]

I'm one of those who don't believe the grail quest to be a literal account of a search but a story about searching. Thus, people's searches will be defined by their own purpose and desire. And resources.

When a person says, "This is my grail pen!," then two months later, "No! This is my grail pen!." that doesn't necessarily make a mockery of the idea of "grail." That's just someone confused about what he really wants, refining that desire as he gains experience. (Or she.)

[catbert]

My "Grail" pen would be so due to povenence. For instance, if I found my grandfather's school pen or the pen Groucho received for his Bar Mitzvah (I doubt these would be one and the same pen).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

In this vein, a sentimental pen I lost at school (and arguably should never have been trusted with in the first place) would be as close as I get to a 'grail'.

[calamus]

Trying to figure out what my "grail pen" was led me to sharpen my thinking about what I really want in a pen. Today is my 72nd birthday, and with my "birthday money" plus a little I had salted away, I ordered a dark green opaque body Pilot Custom 74 with a fine nib from Japan. I think it may well become the pen I use almost to the exclusion of all my others, and might just be that elusive "grail." In any event, I'm sure it'll be a great pen. I am excited about getting it!

https://bizweb.dktcdn.net/100/256/544/products/1-828f2ab4-e175-4f1e-80a5-b6c990caa31a.jpg?v=1507005267847

[KBeezie]

Out of curiosity, how is something an elusive grail if you just ordered it from Japan?

[Wahl]

Happy birthday Calamus !

[ethernautrix]

Well... looks like I have a "truly" "grail" pen. Sad face.

My brother examined the two pens, Nakaya and Pilot; I want the Pilot PO nib in the Nakaya, but the PIlot nib and feed are smaller than Nakaya's collar. My brother's diagnosis: He might be able to sleeve the nib and feed with brass shims. "Not plastic?" "I don't think they make plastic that thin. It's less than a millimeter." "How about three stacked O rings?" "I don't think you'll find O rings that small. But we can take your pens to Home Depot and see what they have."

I vetoed brass shims cos potential contraindications between brass and ink.

So. My perfect pen, ever out of reach.

One last option: If Pablo of fpnibs.com and I are ever at the same pen show, I could ask him to modify my Nakaya nib into a PO. But there are huge challenges between me and that option. Feels like a quest. Hahaa.

The O rings, though. That might work, right? Surely there are tiny O rings....

[Empty_of_Clouds]

As the nib on the Nakaya is essentially the same as a 3776 nib, why not buy the latter at best price, sacrifice the pen and ask Pablo to reshape the nib. You can then swap that nib over.

[ethernautrix]

As the nib on the Nakaya is essentially the same as a 3776 nib, why not buy the latter at best price, sacrifice the pen and ask Pablo to reshape the nib. You can then swap that nib over.

I have a 3776 UEF nib in one of my Nakaya Piccolos. *Big grin*

I have a 3776 Bounce (steel nib, EF) which I used in my kuro-tamenuri Piccolo. The nib was slightly too thin, so I coated one side (the smart side) with clear nail polish, and it worked great for about a month-and-a-half. And then... skipping. Turns out the nail polish disintegrated (?) and started clogging the flow. Easy enough to clean (since I'm obviously willing to take the nib and feed out willy-nilly like a crazy person). Thus... I'm not using that steel nib, but it would be a good candidate for a PO grind, since it's very rigid.

Currently, Kurouac (what I call the kuro-tamenuri, cos it's always on the road with me... and sometimes (twice) it's been on the road, cos it fell out of its pen-sleeve and hit the road, Jack, getting all nice and wabi-sabi) has its original F nib which is on the fat side of a Japanese F line, a line width I like having in my repentoire. (Take note! New pen term coined! "So what's in your repentoire?") But that Pilot PO nib, man.... it is the IT!

Thanks for the suggestion, EOC. I'll probably have the existing nib ground, though, cos at least I know the nib and feed fit (several years ago, Platinum (and Nakaya) modified the nib and feed, so I have a few O.S. (old style) and a couple of N.S. (new style) nibs on my Nakayas. So...it's either (at this point) Pablo or a trip to Japan (highly unlikely) (and my head would probably concuss from all the explosions just walking into the various pen and stationery stores like Maruzen and Itoya).

Hmmm... I wonder if the bigger #15 Pilot nib has a slightly bigger diameter... (ruh roh, gears spinning again)...

[ethernautrix]

I'm stuck in the parable! Heeeeeelp!

[azkid]

Well... looks like I have a "truly" "grail" pen. Sad face.

My brother examined the two pens, Nakaya and Pilot; I want the Pilot PO nib in the Nakaya, but the PIlot nib and feed are smaller than Nakaya's collar. My brother's diagnosis: He might be able to sleeve the nib and feed with brass shims. "Not plastic?" "I don't think they make plastic that thin. It's less than a millimeter." "How about three stacked O rings?" "I don't think you'll find O rings that small. But we can take your pens to Home Depot and see what they have."

I vetoed brass shims cos potential contraindications between brass and ink.

So. My perfect pen, ever out of reach.

One last option: If Pablo of fpnibs.com and I are ever at the same pen show, I could ask him to modify my Nakaya nib into a PO. But there are huge challenges between me and that option. Feels like a quest. Hahaa.

The O rings, though. That might work, right? Surely there are tiny O rings....How much thinner?

You just need a tube of plastic to shim the feed/nib in the larger section?

Pm me. If it isn't too impossible I could machine something out of delrin for you.

[ethernautrix]

How much thinner?

You just need a tube of plastic to shim the feed/nib in the larger section?

Pm me. If it isn't too impossible I could machine something out of delrin for you.

Oh wow! Thank you so much for the offer.

I'll PM you posthaste!

[Empty_of_Clouds]

https://i.imgur.com/gTibkk4l.jpg

This is what's left. Not a "grail" pen among them, just reasonable writers.

Looking at the considerable lack of wisdom I've shown over the last 3 years it wouldn't surprise me if I've overlooked the best pen for me. i.e. I let it go because I didn't recognise its quality.

[empliau]

Not saying it can't be used that way, just that it would be off-context given the mythology.

Personally I am looking for the chrysaor of pens. Being mightier as it were.* :rolleyes:


*Chrysaor, the golden sword of Sir Artegal in The Faerie Queene. It was tempered with Adamant, and it could cleave through anything.


Well, if your argument is that the mythology is definitive and the original meaning should not be changed with time or context, then Chrysaor is either the giant or monster born, with Pegasus, from Medusa's severed neck. Although I will acknowledge that the error is not so much yours as Spenser's, or possibly his predecessor (I don't do CE).

[Sailor Kenshin]

https://i.imgur.com/gTibkk4l.jpg

This is what's left. Not a "grail" pen among them, just reasonable writers.

Looking at the considerable lack of wisdom I've shown over the last 3 years it wouldn't surprise me if I've overlooked the best pen for me. i.e. I let it go because I didn't recognise its quality.

Interesting. Can you ID them, please? What is the colorful one?

[penwash]

https://i.imgur.com/gTibkk4l.jpg

This is what's left. Not a "grail" pen among them, just reasonable writers.

Looking at the considerable lack of wisdom I've shown over the last 3 years it wouldn't surprise me if I've overlooked the best pen for me. i.e. I let it go because I didn't recognise its quality.

That's a balance collection of pens. I see nothing lacking in it.
You're doing well within the context of the intention that you put on these pens, which is writing.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

https://i.imgur.com/gTibkk4l.jpg

This is what's left. Not a "grail" pen among them, just reasonable writers.

Looking at the considerable lack of wisdom I've shown over the last 3 years it wouldn't surprise me if I've overlooked the best pen for me. i.e. I let it go because I didn't recognise its quality.

Interesting. Can you ID them, please? What is the colorful one?


Not a problem. From left to right:

1. Waterman's 52. In super condition - the body and cap are jet black (the photo is not the best). Nice flexible nib on it too.
2. Lamy 2000 with an extra fine nib. Needs no introduction really, probably the most recognisable iconic design of the 1960s
3. Pilot Custom Heritage 912 fitted with the FA nib. This nib is now starting to feel broken in.
4. Pilot Custom 823 fine. One of the best out of the box nibs I've come across.

5. Custom pen made from Mineral Sea Lava Explosion alumilite from Bear Tooth Woods. The pen was made by Pat at SomethingWritePens.com and the design is based loosely on the Nakaya Piccolo, with a lengthened barrel.

6. Custom pen made from Conway Stewart Dartmoor acrylic. The pen was made by Pat at SomethingWritePens.com and the design is based loosely on the Sailor KoP, with a slightly lengthened section and barrel.


Both of the custom pens are fitted with interchangeable Jowo #6 nibs (medium cursive italic by FPNibs.com and standard fine respectively).

[Bold2013]

That Dartmoor material is a show stopper.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

It is indeed, and photos don't come close to showing it's depths.

Here's a shot of the same pens without caps. Of interest to me when looking at these and thinking about any future purchases is that the Lamy and Pilot pens are too short for me to use unposted. There are very few, if any, modern pens in the price bracket $100 -$300 (approx.) that I can use unposted. Even the vaunted 149 is a short pen to me. :) (and that's way more expensive too).

https://i.imgur.com/gMBhZBEl.jpg

[pajaro]

That is a very interesting range of pens. I think the concept of a "grail pen" means different things to different people.

It took me years to get what I thought was a reasonable sample of a Parker 51 in plum color. So long that I didn't expect to get one. After buying one, there was no grail pen afterwards, I just want to use my favorites, and I don't want any more pens.

[Wahl]

Grail : object of an extended and difficult quest.

I´ve had several, Parker Duofold Senior Mandarine, Waterman Patrician Moss-Agate, OMAS Faceted Lucens Oversize Old Amber....and a few others.

Pens I wanted but could not find in perfect condition.

And...once I had them, they were no more my grail, and another pen took its place as my Grail Pen.

Today the quest is over, as I have realized I don´t need another pen .

[Sailor Kenshin]

https://i.imgur.com/gTibkk4l.jpg

This is what's left. Not a "grail" pen among them, just reasonable writers.

Looking at the considerable lack of wisdom I've shown over the last 3 years it wouldn't surprise me if I've overlooked the best pen for me. i.e. I let it go because I didn't recognise its quality.

Interesting. Can you ID them, please? What is the colorful one?


Not a problem. From left to right:

1. Waterman's 52. In super condition - the body and cap are jet black (the photo is not the best). Nice flexible nib on it too.
2. Lamy 2000 with an extra fine nib. Needs no introduction really, probably the most recognisable iconic design of the 1960s
3. Pilot Custom Heritage 912 fitted with the FA nib. This nib is now starting to feel broken in.
4. Pilot Custom 823 fine. One of the best out of the box nibs I've come across.

5. Custom pen made from Mineral Sea Lava Explosion alumilite from Bear Tooth Woods. The pen was made by Pat at SomethingWritePens.com and the design is based loosely on the Nakaya Piccolo, with a lengthened barrel.

6. Custom pen made from Conway Stewart Dartmoor acrylic. The pen was made by Pat at SomethingWritePens.com and the design is based loosely on the Sailor KoP, with a slightly lengthened section and barrel.


Both of the custom pens are fitted with interchangeable Jowo #6 nibs (medium cursive italic by FPNibs.com and standard fine respectively).

Thanks. They are beauties! My Lamy 200 has the EF nib, too.

[Runnin_Ute]

This comes close....

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1920/45378270421_dcff0ef439_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2c8VuQM)20181016_175229 (https://flic.kr/p/2c8VuQM) by Brad Merrill (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158657475@N05/), on Flickr