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View Full Version : WHICH 400 tortoise is this?



tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 01:55 PM
So my last batch of pens for the year included a grab off ebay of a cheap Pelikan tortoise with an interesting IB nib. I really grabbed it for the nib, but since it was also a tortoise, score!

Figured it was a dupe of my 400 tortoise from Rick so I'd just put a nib I didn't like in it (like my 50s EF nib, too fine) and resell it. But here's the thing, I think it is SLIGHTLY different. Wondering if anyone can pin down the variation it might be?

HARD to get pics of the details so bear with me, I may need to break out the light box and real camera but that's a lot of time and trouble. :\

1st pic: The bindes. I know these can vary but this is HUGE. The closest pen is the 50's 400 I got from Rick. Honey colored, lots of red, classic for pens of that era that I've seen online. The new pen is behind it. The bind frankly looks much closer to the new 800 binde. Much darker brown, less red, a some grey highlights just a very different animal.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3700/8751632814_7e979a38d2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8751632814/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8751632814/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

Caps:
Hard to see. On the new pen the birds are outlined in yellow. Rick's 400 they are NOT. The engraving lines on Rick's are much finer. And there are TWO chick beaks on Rick's 400. Only 1 on the new 400.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3776/8750510141_bb3a693615_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8750510141/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8750510141/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

This is really obscure and maybe just a trick of my eyes? But the new Pelikan's clip seems more pointed at the end than Rick's 400's clip.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7379/8751635724_34cd2d0213_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8751635724/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/84377112@N05/8751635724/) by JoAndRoses (http://www.flickr.com/people/84377112@N05/), on Flickr

Finally the nibs. I realize Pelikan nibs travel and so the nib may mean nothing but this is an odd nib and hard as heck to see in any pic I've managed to take. Rick's 50's nib is the classic with two triangular arrow lines, round Pelikan logo, like this one:
2798

And the NEW pen has a nib like this one:
2799
(though and IB)

If it had a gold band on the filler knob I'd say it was an M400. Is this just a very late 400? Or just random variations?

peterpen53
May 18th, 2013, 03:14 PM
The nib is highly reminiscent of the nibs Pelikan puts on the reissues of older models like the M101N tortoise, except these are 18K and yours is 14K. If anything, I would say the nib is older than the one on the pen you got from Rick, which seems odd. But we all know how easily Pelikan nibs are exchanged...

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 03:29 PM
That was my thought Peter. It looks like either an 100 nib, OR the reissued tortoise 101N nib (except yes, says 14k). So either very old, or new? And it is IB, writes like it and while it is hard as heck to see I'm pretty darn sure it says IB on it.

But why swap such a nib, either way a valuable one from what I can tell, into a 50s (maybe?) body? Doesn't feel like a very old nib though, but the iridium tip is FLAT, not a round ball I'm used to on newer Pelikan nibs? All around the whole pen is just ODD! Writes beautifully, just a dream nib. Worth the price of the whole pen just for that nib. But the mystery is bugging me. ;)

Everything from the thickness of the clip, its width at the top, is just SLIGHTLY off from the 50's 400. And if it is from the 50s it is in remarkable shape. Not a SPEC of wear on any of the metal hardware. Shiny and umblemished. But the pen has obviously been used, there is some blue ink residue in the ink chamber and looks like some light ink staining in the barrel. So not like it just sat in a drawer all this time.

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 03:36 PM
AHAH!

According to nibs.com the reissued 101N came with a 14K nib. So this nib matches the reissue 101N nib EXACTLY. Why someone would take that special nib, stick it in this body and then sell it I don't get?

Jon Szanto
May 18th, 2013, 04:19 PM
I was interested to see the piston knob, which you didn't photo. I was wondering if it was the 400NN (which has a rounded knob) as opposed to a standard 400 (with a squarish knob). Hope you ID it.

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 04:24 PM
Mystery Solved! (See FPB for the thread with Rick!)

It is indeed an 80s M400. But the NIB is from a 100 or 101! Ebonite feed, so NOT a modern reissue nib. Very cool and exciting. So there's another tortoise checked off my list, and a fun nib to boot. The nib is worth what I paid for the whole pen, calling this one a surprise win.

Jon Szanto
May 18th, 2013, 04:27 PM
Yeah, I just saw the thread over there. Sometimes it is confusing, hopping back and forth... ;)

peterpen53
May 18th, 2013, 05:35 PM
AHAH!

According to nibs.com the reissued 101N came with a 14K nib. So this nib matches the reissue 101N nib EXACTLY. Why someone would take that special nib, stick it in this body and then sell it I don't get?

Well, this confuses me. The nib on my M101N tortoise, bought new, clearly states 18K/750. ?????

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 05:44 PM
Odd, the pic I found the nib said 585 14k? Hmmm

tandaina
May 18th, 2013, 05:45 PM
I'm looking at pics on Nibs.com? Maybe that was a promo? Could swear that nib says 14k!

Tony Rex
May 18th, 2013, 06:01 PM
I can assure you the nib is vintage 101. The new nib has more lines inside the Pelikan lettering.

peterpen53
May 19th, 2013, 03:23 AM
I'm looking at pics on Nibs.com? Maybe that was a promo? Could swear that nib says 14k!

I saw that. And it says 14K on Pelikan's German website as well. It would seem my dealer had to perform some magic to get me the broad nib I wanted in the correct plain yellow gold. Since any further argument is pointless I will just ignore it and continue to enjoy it. I hope you will enjoy yours.

tandaina
May 19th, 2013, 01:00 PM
OK, well then further confirmation this is indeed an old nib, as the new reproduction nibs are 18k. Thanks for all the information! :) Hopefully this thread will be helpful to someone else someday too!

fountainpenkid
May 20th, 2013, 08:16 PM
I'm pretty sure the early 400s had that "m101 reissue" nib standard...back when the 100n was still in production.

piscov
May 22nd, 2013, 07:25 AM
Here is a pictures with all the nibs that the Pelikan 400 and early M400 used

From left to rigth:

1) 1950-1954
2)1954-1960īs
3) 1960's
4)1980īs

You can find a great sketch and some more detail at FPNuts: here (http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4482-pelikan-400-variant/page__pid__25549#entry25549)

2878

JustDaveyB
May 30th, 2013, 05:23 AM
M101N Tortoise (new) nib http://justdaveyb.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/ni196_20121112_tn.jpg?w=955
Older style M400 nib http://justdaveyb.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ni170c_tn.jpg?w=960&h=539
M415 Tortoise nib http://justdaveyb.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ni121c_n.jpg?w=960&h=539
M250 Nib http://justdaveyb.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ni122c_n.jpg?w=960&h=539

tandaina
May 30th, 2013, 08:04 AM
Great pictures!

fountainpenkid
May 30th, 2013, 02:56 PM
Davey, did that m415 tortoise nib have a rhodium plating in the lower part at any time?