PDA

View Full Version : Beware keepitfresh from fpn



heraclitus682
May 18th, 2013, 11:00 PM
Last December I sent Honey Chen several pens in a trade. She was going by the name keepitfresh on fpn. I have heard nothing from her and have not received my part of the trade.

Brian

heraclitus682
May 19th, 2013, 01:12 AM
http://instagram.com/p/UXCio-N9kr/

My pens on instagram.

Jon Szanto
May 19th, 2013, 01:18 AM
You know, if people are going to start calling out others for bad deals, it would be a Really Great Thing if you would take the time to spell it out in complete sentences and paragraphs, and tell the entire story. Otherwise, it can come off as just lame "he said, she said".

You haven't detailed in what ways you have attempted contact, any contact you've had with FPN regarding this, and what the relevance of the instragram posting is. If you want us to take your side, and more importantly, if you want us to believe that this person is behaving in an unbusinesslike and unethical manner, you need to be more clear in your reportage of the story.

hari317
May 19th, 2013, 01:22 AM
The instagram appears to show that the other party seems to have received the pens the OP sent.

heraclitus682
May 19th, 2013, 01:28 AM
Sorry, I just posted that for everyone's general information. I didn't expect anyone to really respond, and I am not looking for people to take my side. This is just informational.
Last December on FPN keepitfresh posted a Duofold Centennial in the classifieds. I contacted her in regards to a trade. Several pm's were exchanged and a trade was set up with me sending a Montblanc 146, and Parker Vacumatic, and a TWSBI 540 her way in exchange for the Duofold. I sent the pens that December. Since then, I have heard nothing from her. I have tried contacting her several times via the pm system on fpn. I have posted a thread on fpn asking if anyone had heard from her. Nothing. No contact with her. I have contacted a moderator at fpn, but they can't really do anything. Since posting this thread someone has contacted me with the instagram photo of my pens and the information that she is active there. I don't have instagram so I can't contact her there. I would love to get my pens back, but I don't really see that happening. I just don't want anyone else to loose pens if it can be helped.

Jon Szanto
May 19th, 2013, 02:00 AM
Thanks, Hera. While your first couple of posts weren't very informational (though they were a warning), this follow up certain has more information. Since you obviously mailed pens to her, have you sent registered letters to that address, assuring yourself both that they have been delivered and that the person does reside at the address?

Lastly, I have to ask, and I do it as a general thing, for others to mull over: why would you send pens to a person you don't know, with no recourse in place? Everyone knows about caveat emptor, and I guess that goes for trading as well as buying. I wish you the best in any efforts you make on behalf of your pens, but this looks like it was an accident waiting to happen. I simply do not understand all these people that trade pens, sight-unseen, with people they have never met nor done business with.

You should also contact instagram. Perhaps they have policies regarding the posting of stolen or illegal material. Maybe a letter that goes to both them and keepitfresh might make some waves.

Good luck.

Jon Szanto
May 19th, 2013, 02:02 AM
The instagram appears to show that the other party seems to have received the pens the OP sent.
It shows - possibly - the OPs pens, but nowhere is anyone identified by either of the names the OP mentioned.

I think it would be interesting to ask some questions in the comment area for that photo, and see if it stays up. As I said previously, if the OP feels these are his pens, he should contact instagram directly.

jor412
May 19th, 2013, 08:02 AM
Sorry, I just posted that for everyone's general information. I didn't expect anyone to really respond, and I am not looking for people to take my side. This is just informational.
Last December on FPN keepitfresh posted a Duofold Centennial in the classifieds. I contacted her in regards to a trade. Several pm's were exchanged and a trade was set up with me sending a Montblanc 146, and Parker Vacumatic, and a TWSBI 540 her way in exchange for the Duofold. I sent the pens that December. Since then, I have heard nothing from her. I have tried contacting her several times via the pm system on fpn. I have posted a thread on fpn asking if anyone had heard from her. Nothing. No contact with her. I have contacted a moderator at fpn, but they can't really do anything. Since posting this thread someone has contacted me with the instagram photo of my pens and the information that she is active there. I don't have instagram so I can't contact her there. I would love to get my pens back, but I don't really see that happening. I just don't want anyone else to loose pens if it can be helped.

Thanks for this post. I remember keepitfresh's classifieds. I know she advertised more than once because I saw her ads more than once. They were quite convincing. She said it was part of an experiment on trading that she was doing for her thesis or some school project. I wanted to make the trade but based on her ad I knew I didn't have what she was looking for.

drgoretex
May 19th, 2013, 08:16 AM
...
Lastly, I have to ask, and I do it as a general thing, for others to mull over: why would you send pens to a person you don't know, with no recourse in place? Everyone knows about caveat emptor, and I guess that goes for trading as well as buying. I wish you the best in any efforts you make on behalf of your pens, but this looks like it was an accident waiting to happen. I simply do not understand all these people that trade pens, sight-unseen, with people they have never met nor done business with.

...

Your point is well taken. However, I have to say that I rather like the idea of pen trades in the FP community. Yes, we all know that there is risk (caveat emptor) in trades, especially with someone you don't know well, and that there may well be no recourse. In the case of loss due to a bad faith deal, posting a warning to others in the community is pretty fair (and is appreciated).

Cheers,

Ken

Laura N
May 19th, 2013, 08:49 AM
...
Lastly, I have to ask, and I do it as a general thing, for others to mull over: why would you send pens to a person you don't know, with no recourse in place? Everyone knows about caveat emptor, and I guess that goes for trading as well as buying. I wish you the best in any efforts you make on behalf of your pens, but this looks like it was an accident waiting to happen. I simply do not understand all these people that trade pens, sight-unseen, with people they have never met nor done business with.

...

Your point is well taken. However, I have to say that I rather like the idea of pen trades in the FP community. Yes, we all know that there is risk (caveat emptor) in trades, especially with someone you don't know well, and that there may well be no recourse. In the case of loss due to a bad faith deal, posting a warning to others in the community is pretty fair (and is appreciated).

Cheers,

Ken

Hi Jon.

I just did a trade in the last two weeks with a fellow forum member here, amaranzono. We didn't know each other, but he had photos of his pens, we exchanged PMs and I suppose we both seemed honest. We're both from Chicago originally, so that helps. :) In the end, it was a great trade; we each got some new pens to try, and not to sound corny but I think we each feel we made a friend.

Of course, none of our pens were particularly valuable, so the risk was less than Heraclitus's.

In the end, you have to go with your gut. For example, I had seen "kirkylarky's" ad and didn't respond. He had no photos and no specific information about the pens beyond model number. It just seemed a little too cavalier. It wasn't how I would have listed pens if I wanted to trade them, so I steered clear.

So, bottom line, why would you trade? To try something new. Why trade with essentially a stranger? He or she seems legitimate (or in the case of Angelo, a great guy). And the risk is within your tolerance.

I have to put a bunch of pens up for sale soon, and I must say I'm not sure the risks are any less doing that. You could always get the bad buyer, too. And the same as a buyer with a bad seller. Unless you buy all your pens in person or from a top dealer with prices to match, there will always be those sorts of risks.

mhguda
May 19th, 2013, 09:42 AM
This sentence to me sums it all up:
And the risk is within your tolerance.
I don't think I would ever do a substantial trade or buy as a first transaction - even with bona fide online shops I've been careful to test the waters first. Spend an amount or trade a pen that if it all falls through it's no big deal, especially if it is a new contact. This approach has worked well for me so far (about a year and a half).
YMMV of course...

Jon Szanto
May 19th, 2013, 11:18 AM
In the end, you have to go with your gut. For example, I had seen "kirkylarky's" ad and didn't respond. He had no photos and no specific information about the pens beyond model number. It just seemed a little too cavalier. It wasn't how I would have listed pens if I wanted to trade them, so I steered clear.
Well put. Yes, in the end, it is a matter of judgement and attempting to assess the caliber of the other party. In your example, I too had seen this "kirkylarky" person post their "Hey, who wants to trade some pens..." stuff, and thought "Who on Earth would trust someone that sounds like a flippant high school kid?

Risk-and-reward, caveatis emptoritus and all that. I've had some good dealings, mostly purchase/sales, and a couple trades, but they were all with people that I had watched through their posts for a long time, or had a high degree of verifiable reputation. My entire point was that it seems like some people are waaaay too trusting.

Let me know when you sell some of those pens... ;)

snedwos
May 19th, 2013, 09:50 PM
I have had one experience through the classifieds, and though it all went well, it was personally uncomfortable for me.

I bought a great pen for what I think was a good price, but I was so freaked out waiting for the pen to arrive that I don't particularly want to try again...

I realised I had been really cavalier and careless, and had little to no reason to trust the seller because I had done no research. I also started to wonder if I had made a mistake in giving them my address. It was altogether a miserable experience.

Thankfully it was all made better when the pen arrived, and it's now a daily user! I was lucky that I put my blind trust in someone who turned out to be perfectly honest. But I'll be more careful next time. Blind trust is never the right way to do anything,

heraclitus682
May 26th, 2013, 07:20 AM
FYI, her address:

Honey Chen
11 Briarvale Cres.
Saskatoon, SK, Canada
S7V 0B2

heraclitus682
May 26th, 2013, 08:26 AM
Okay, I have gone back and have gotten screenshots of the entire conversation leading up to the trade. I found her email address in one of them. I have emailed her and notified her that if I don't hear back from her today I will contacting the authorities. I wonder if I will get a response?

AtomicLeo
May 26th, 2013, 08:52 AM
...
Lastly, I have to ask, and I do it as a general thing, for others to mull over: why would you send pens to a person you don't know, with no recourse in place? Everyone knows about caveat emptor, and I guess that goes for trading as well as buying. I wish you the best in any efforts you make on behalf of your pens, but this looks like it was an accident waiting to happen. I simply do not understand all these people that trade pens, sight-unseen, with people they have never met nor done business with.

...

Your point is well taken. However, I have to say that I rather like the idea of pen trades in the FP community. Yes, we all know that there is risk (caveat emptor) in trades, especially with someone you don't know well, and that there may well be no recourse. In the case of loss due to a bad faith deal, posting a warning to others in the community is pretty fair (and is appreciated).

Cheers,

Ken

I'd also like to followup Ken's excellent remark that some of us do not have access to any other markets or pen clubs but FPN, Ebay and here. I buy and trade sight unseen, because groups like this are the only places I 'meet' other fountain pen addicts.

Marsilius
May 26th, 2013, 09:05 AM
Maybe the IT mavens here can find her IP address. (Is that the right term?)
Chen is a might common name, but hmmm, Chen, Canada, fountain pen trades . . . Conspiracy theories, anyone? (And I was one who argued for caution on drawing conclusions.)

Pendragon
May 26th, 2013, 04:33 PM
Maybe the IT mavens here can find her IP address. (Is that the right term?)

Assuming the snail mail address posted was correct, why would the individual's IP address be necessary?


Chen is a might common name, but hmmm, Chen, Canada, fountain pen trades . . . Conspiracy theories, anyone? (And I was one who argued for caution on drawing conclusions.)

Encouraging paranoia is probably counterproductive, and unlikely to deter fraud. The same goes for blind trust.

In case it helps, these are included in the tips from the FBI Internet Fraud website (http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/internet_fraud):


Make sure you are purchasing merchandise from a reputable source.
Do your homework on the individual or company to ensure that they are legitimate.
Obtain a physical address rather than simply a post office box and a telephone number, and call the seller to see if the telephone number is correct and working.
Send an e-mail to the seller to make sure the e-mail address is active, and be wary of those that utilize free e-mail services where a credit card wasn’t required to open the account.
Consider not purchasing from sellers who won’t provide you with this type of information.
Check out other websites regarding this person/company.
Be cautious when dealing with individuals/companies from outside your own country.
Inquire about returns and warranties.
Consider using an escrow or alternate payment service.


The escrow payment services sounds like a particularly good idea for purchases.

Marsilius
May 26th, 2013, 05:32 PM
Assuming the snail mail address posted was correct, why would the individual's IP address be necessary?


Chen is a might common name, but hmmm, Chen, Canada, fountain pen trades . . . Conspiracy theories, anyone? (And I was one who argued for caution on drawing conclusions.)

Encouraging paranoia is probably counterproductive, and unlikely to deter fraud. The same goes for blind trust.

In case it helps, these are included in the tips from the FBI Internet Fraud website (http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/internet_fraud):


Make sure you are purchasing merchandise from a reputable source.
Do your homework on the individual or company to ensure that they are legitimate.
Obtain a physical address rather than simply a post office box and a telephone number, and call the seller to see if the telephone number is correct and working.
Send an e-mail to the seller to make sure the e-mail address is active, and be wary of those that utilize free e-mail services where a credit card wasn’t required to open the account.
Consider not purchasing from sellers who won’t provide you with this type of information.
Check out other websites regarding this person/company.
Be cautious when dealing with individuals/companies from outside your own country.
Inquire about returns and warranties.
Consider using an escrow or alternate payment service.


The escrow payment services sounds like a particularly good idea for purchases.

I wasn't intending to encourage paranoia, but referring specifically to a case in another post here in which different names were linked to the same IP, or internet origins. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Your list of tips is useful.

One more thing that intrigues me: we are saying hello recently to several new members who seem to be bots, or at least names known for signing to gazillions of forums almost simultaneously. What are the implications of those . . . If any?

jor412
May 26th, 2013, 07:13 PM
Really? Have I been saying hello to bots? Man that sucks.

Laura N
May 26th, 2013, 07:20 PM
...One more thing that intrigues me: we are saying hello recently to several new members who seem to be bots, or at least names known for signing to gazillions of forums almost simultaneously. What are the implications of those . . . If any?

I suppose if you are aware of that, maybe you could post that in the applicable thread? And maybe also alert the administrators?

Dunno. I'm not a computer person.

Marsilius
May 26th, 2013, 07:56 PM
I suppose if you are aware of that, maybe you could post that in the applicable thread? And maybe also alert the administrators?

Dunno. I'm not a computer person.

Nor am I. I guess I would go ahead and put a note like that in Market watch? Or make a thread here?

(Admins notified.)

snedwos
May 27th, 2013, 07:49 AM
When I spot a bot I tend to report the thread.

Marsilius
May 27th, 2013, 09:12 AM
When I spot a bot I tend to report the thread.

Thank you. Report made. I am new to this concept, despite years on the net. My email gets fished at school fairly often, and I change my password a lot, but recent threads on the lounge here about scammers brought this into relief, so . . .

A couple of questions:

1. I don't know the implications of bots. Can a bot steal passwords, identities, etc.? Or does it just sit and hope someone will get friendly and fall into some scam?

2. People tend to gleefully welcome and and all members, with what seem like automatic email messages. Is there any potential harm for the "real" member, or is this just standard "small talk" on a forum? (There is even a potential irony when, after someone identifies a bot, members keep sending their own automatic? greeting messages.)

Thanks for any insights.

Update: Ooof! Now I realize that I should just report these things as spam with that little exclamation mark on the bottom left? Or not? Still learning.

snedwos
May 27th, 2013, 09:44 AM
When I spot a bot I tend to report the thread.

Thank you. Report made. I am new to this concept, despite years on the net. My email gets fished at school fairly often, and I change my password a lot, but recent threads on the lounge here about scammers brought this into relief, so . . .

A couple of questions:

1. I don't know the implications of bots. Can a bot steal passwords, identities, etc.? Or does it just sit and hope someone will get friendly and fall into some scam?

2. People tend to gleefully welcome and and all members, with what seem like automatic email messages. Is there any potential harm for the "real" member, or is this just standard "small talk" on a forum? (There is even a potential irony when, after someone identifies a bot, members keep sending their own automatic? greeting messages.)

Thanks for any insights.

Update: Ooof! Now I realize that I should just report these things as spam with that little exclamation mark on the bottom left? Or not? Still learning.

I think they're just fishing for site hits. You'll notice they often have links in their posts, which will probably be fairly harmless. But the site will generate advertising revenue if you click on the link. Of course it could hide something more sinister. Just ingnoring them will keep you safe, I think. But they're annoying.

Frank
May 27th, 2013, 10:01 AM
[QUOTE=Pendragon;31807]

One more thing that intrigues me: we are saying hello recently to several new members who seem to be bots, or at least names known for signing to gazillions of forums almost simultaneously. What are the implications of those . . . If any?

From a member standpoint- none really, but bots can slow a forum down, as well as track info such traffic, keywords for spam, etc...

Mods/admins can do a "check", and get rid of these "members". I have gotten rid of more than 200 of these myself over the years on my board. It is a "quality over quantity" thing, and mods on bigger boards may or may not have the time.

However, There are ways to deal with this-

There is a the registration process, in which you can offer the "challenge" of asking for email, and the "CAPTCHA" option of making people put in the "code" (you know, the confusing set of letters/numbers you enter to confirm). This proves that you are a human being entering data!

I am always getting mail about members "joining", but the challenge prevents bots from actually completing registration!

Regards,
Frank

ethernautrix
May 28th, 2013, 04:22 PM
I suppose the lesson from all of these spam threads is that we must know the risk and assess whether the risk is something we are willing to take. The risk threshhold will vary amongst us.


ETA: But I do like these heads-up.

david i
May 28th, 2013, 04:56 PM
[QUOTE=Pendragon;31807]

One more thing that intrigues me: we are saying hello recently to several new members who seem to be bots, or at least names known for signing to gazillions of forums almost simultaneously. What are the implications of those . . . If any?

From a member standpoint- none really, but bots can slow a forum down, as well as track info such traffic, keywords for spam, etc...

Mods/admins can do a "check", and get rid of these "members". I have gotten rid of more than 200 of these myself over the years on my board. It is a "quality over quantity" thing, and mods on bigger boards may or may not have the time.

However, There are ways to deal with this-

There is a the registration process, in which you can offer the "challenge" of asking for email, and the "CAPTCHA" option of making people put in the "code" (you know, the confusing set of letters/numbers you enter to confirm). This proves that you are a human being entering data!

I am always getting mail about members "joining", but the challenge prevents bots from actually completing registration!

Regards,
Frank

Hi Frank,

CAPTCHA has been cracked by the 'bots.

regards

david

OakIris
May 29th, 2013, 09:15 AM
Did you get any response from Honey Chen or keepitfresh or flymetoanywhere, or....whatever name she goes by, Brian? It had to be upsetting to see "your" pens posted on Instagram with a claim that they were obtained through a trade, while you've been waiting for 5 months to receive your end of the bargain - it would seem pretty brazen of her to make such a claim, but I imagine she didn't expect you to ever see it. :( The fact that she didn't respond to your PMs is worrying, but could this just be a case of miscommunication? (That explanation does seem unlikely, given the length of time that has passed, but I am being optimistic for you!)

I successfully traded my Lamy Artus Demonstrator for a Parker DuoVac last year, and I traded with someone who lives in Belgium - nothing but PMs, forum posts and post count to go by. I trusted my gut, as did he, and all was well. Perhaps we were lucky - our trust in each others' integrity was well-founded in this case. I would definitely trade with him again, but threads like this one do remind me to be wary.

Trading pens is always a bit scary, as is buying things on eBay or even from classified ads like those posted here on FPG or FPN. You never know what you will run into, but aren't all transactions a matter of trust? And as Laura said, this can be equally scary for the seller - there are plenty of bad buyers out there as well. I have been sent gifts of pens from people on FPN that I don't know other than from their posts on the forums; not the same as trading, and perhaps this is foolish, but I think somehow that engenders a feeling of trust in the folks there, but of course, scammers are everywhere, so, indeed, caveat emptor and caveat mercator.

For those who don't live near pen shops or pen shows, trust is all we have, really. A heads-up on potentially "bad" sellers, buyers or traders is always appreciated; you can then make your own decision as to whether or not you want to risk a possible loss by dealing with the individual.

Holly

I like mango pudding
May 29th, 2013, 11:58 AM
There's trading, and then there's buying. With trading, it's who trusts whom? They may have the same apprehensions as you do. With buying, there is a bit of protection via PayPal and through Ebay. Not sure on here, but with most forums, there is a buyer/seller feedback and those with good transactions are duly posted by each party. I've read stories where the seller sent a bag of rocks in one, a used dirty T shirt in another, and gawd who knows what else.

I did do some transactions through purchases and trades. Some I had second thoughts about after I completed the transaction, but I always did whatever research I could before the transaction.

Daisy
June 2nd, 2013, 02:31 PM
In case it helps, these are included in the tips from the FBI Internet Fraud website (http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/internet_fraud):


Make sure you are purchasing merchandise from a reputable source.
Do your homework on the individual or company to ensure that they are legitimate.
Obtain a physical address rather than simply a post office box and a telephone number, and call the seller to see if the telephone number is correct and working.
Send an e-mail to the seller to make sure the e-mail address is active, and be wary of those that utilize free e-mail services where a credit card wasn’t required to open the account.
Consider not purchasing from sellers who won’t provide you with this type of information.
Check out other websites regarding this person/company.
Be cautious when dealing with individuals/companies from outside your own country.
Inquire about returns and warranties.
Consider using an escrow or alternate payment service.


You know, several of these suggestions would exclude the honest pen hobbyist from ever making a sale. The average hobbyist doesn't have a trade reputation the same way an established seller would, so no amount of "homework" beyond checking for feedback on their user name would do much for you one way or the other. They won't be listed on websites, either, because they're just hobby sellers -- and of course dishonest sellers can have a website too. Dishonest sellers do have working phone numbers and email addresses; it's only AFTER the fraud that they no longer work. MANY (most?) people have at least one free email account; I sure do. So though the intention is good, most of the above can't effectively apply to informal pen sales.


The escrow payment services sounds like a particularly good idea for purchases.

Indeed! I couldn't agree more. And beware the seller who wants you to Paypal them the money as payment to a friend as opposed to paying a seller; I got taken that way once.

And as a result of my own experiences, I'd far sooner trust someone who actually participates in the forums and has real posts than someone who is just on a board to sell pens.

That, and I guess I'm old enough to know that my best defense is to be aware of my own greed. :D

But above all, like Laura said, trust your gut.

I'm really glad folks like the OP post when someone has cheated them -- reasonable and ethical self-policing makes any place a better one, I think. :D

AndyLa
June 3rd, 2013, 11:05 AM
Guess I've been a little bit out of the loop. But wow. Kirkylarky tried to trade me for my lamy and my gut certainly told me it was not a good idea. In the end, I ultimately told that person that they were really pushy and that I didn't trust them. I'm sure glad I passed. I've traded many times but now I must say this is making me more reluctant in the future. I always check up on who I am trading with, check out their posts and such.
I think having threads like this is a good idea!

subramaniyam
June 8th, 2013, 11:28 PM
Er... Forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but has there been any indication from her that she has sent it? Maybe it could be lost in transit (God I hope not!!!).

Regards,
Sub

I like mango pudding
June 9th, 2013, 02:02 AM
Er... Forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but has there been any indication from her that she has sent it? Maybe it could be lost in transit (God I hope not!!!).

Regards,
Sub

If that is the case, then she should have responded on FB instead of blocking the OP's messages, or responded to this thread here.

heraclitus682
June 9th, 2013, 07:27 AM
Not a stupid question. No. Once early on she has said that she would send the pen but she has not responded to any emails since then. What really bothers me is that she was a fairly regular trader at FPN. I wonder why she decided to "go bad" on this particular trade?

Flounder
February 12th, 2015, 05:27 PM
Did her conscience ever prick enough to send the Duofold? She looks to be well enough enamoured with your Montblanc (http://instagram.com/p/yLo0boN9rp/?modal=true).

heraclitus682
February 12th, 2015, 09:20 PM
Nope, won't respond to an email. I often wonder if she is still on the fountain pen forums under another user name.

mmahany
February 13th, 2015, 09:41 AM
Disclaimer: Never assume the worst in these kinds of situations. Sometimes people have legitimate excuses (health, family, etc) for being unable to contact.

I include that disclaimer to explain that what I'm about to share is meant in good faith. It's to help provide additional channels to reach the other party.

I googled the address mentioned previously. It's a residence, but it's also the address listed on DCZS Intelligent Systems INC.
http://www.datalog.co.uk/browse/detail.php/CompanyNumber/CA8975736/CompanyName/DCZS+INTELLIGENT+SYSTEMS+INC.

That led me to a Candian Government website that provided information about the owners of DCZS Systems.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=8975736

As you can see, one of the directors has the same address and last name as the person in question.

I googled that person's name and found out they are a respected Researcher for a well-known university (I will not include links at this point as the person may or may not be aware of this pen transaction and likely has done nothing wrong).

From that point, I was able to find his direct office number and email address.

Again, I cannot stress the fact that this information is meant in good faith and should not be used inappropriately. Everything I've shared was sourced through basic Google searches (in a matter of 5-10 minutes).

If it were me, I would contact the person (researcher) mentioned above and ask them how they know Honey Chen.

I would explain the situation and ask for advice on how to contact her.

Of note: Several years ago, I encountered a similar situation when a buyer could not be contacted. I was forced to find additional channels to reach that person (again through Google). In my case, I had to resort to contacting the seller's manager at his place of work and explain the situation. The situation ended favorably for me in the end.

Flounder
February 13th, 2015, 11:49 AM
Going by her recent Instagram posts (3 days ago (http://instagram.com/p/y7qa_nt9iI/?modal=true), in January (http://instagram.com/p/x71wXVt9tY/?modal=true), etc. (http://instagram.com/p/xS8tY5N9lh/?modal=true) etc (http://instagram.com/p/x2fgUIt9iP/?modal=true).) I'm struggling to visualise things being terribly shit-shaped in the excuse department.

Chrissy
February 13th, 2015, 03:58 PM
I realised this was a resurrected thread after reading most of it.

I have taken part in a couple of trades on the other place, and *touches wood* they both worked out fine. My last trading partner sent me a picture of the box, all taped up with my address on it ready to ship, and it was the exact box I received.

I think you can usually tell if someone is honest, after being in contact for a while, and knowing how they post on here, and on the other place. It may be gut instinct coupled with not taking a more expensive risk than you can afford to lose.

mmahany
February 13th, 2015, 04:34 PM
I realised this was a resurrected thread after reading most of it.

I have taken part in a couple of trades on the other place, and *touches wood* they both worked out fine. My last trading partner sent me a picture of the box, all taped up with my address on it ready to ship, and it was the exact box I received.

I think you can usually tell if someone is honest, after being in contact for a while, and knowing how they post on here, and on the other place. It may be gut instinct coupled with not taking a more expensive risk than you can afford to lose.
I probably wouldn't say that to Bernie Madoff’s former clients, and some of them trusted him with millions of dollars.

It takes about 2 minutes to put a label on a box and take a picture. It’s a nice gesture, but it doesn’t exactly give me any piece of mind.

Maybe I’m cynical, but people can’t earn my trust by typing a few sentences and sending me a picture.

Before I do business with anyone, I do a Google search of their name. I specifically check their LinkedIN profile, see what kind of neighborhood they live in, and make sure everything matches up.

In addition, I’m also willing to do the same for SOME people. There have been several times I have sent people pictures of my business card after they have earned my trust so I can, in turn, earn theirs.

It may seem excessive, but that's what I feel needs to be done in order to protect myself from thieves. I've engaged in close to 1000 transactions with individual buyers/sells via the internet and only had one that did not end favorably (for me).

tandaina
February 13th, 2015, 05:52 PM
I'm on a FB group in which there were some trading issues and the suggested way to handle it was this:

Paypal. Say you are going to trade a twisbi with someone who's got a Parker 51 worth about the same. ($50 to make this easy).

You pay me $50 on Paypal, and I pay you $50 (both as purchases, not gifts to friends.)

Yes you are out a couple bucks for the fee, which is dumb on something like $50, but for HUNDREDS of dollars like we have here would be worth it. That way, if *your* side of the trade never arrives you open a Paypal dispute and you get your money back. Then the scammer will have paid for the pens you sent fair and square. (Obviously send things insured and delivery confirmation, enter that info in Paypal.)

There are folks on this board with sterling reps. People I absolutely trust and I wouldn't bother with this with them. But it takes a lot of risk out of trades. If you are doing a high value trade through the mail? Pay one another through Paypal.

I like mango pudding
February 13th, 2015, 07:45 PM
You do realize that Chen is the most common Chinese last name and in fact is the most common last name in the world? Maybe a coincidence or maybe this is a lead.

mmahany
February 16th, 2015, 08:05 AM
You do realize that Chen is the most common Chinese last name and in fact is the most common last name in the world? Maybe a coincidence or maybe this is a lead.

I think it's simply a coincidence. Look at my previous post on the second page.

I will put it this way: if it were me in this situation I would have already made several phone calls and emails to the (likely) associated party with a request for help. There is a high likelihood the two people are related in some way. I would also already have some sort of resolution, whether it be my pens, financial compensation, or some sort of legal action against what was committed againt me. While the money is insignificant, it is the principle of the matter. I am the kind of person that does not appreciate being taken advantage of and will use my available resources to avoid and correct these sort of acts against me.

My theory is that this person (Honey Chen) is either a child or young adult. They may not understand the consequences of stealing (because that's what it is) from someone. The pictures on Instagram support this behavior as no intelligent criminal would publicly display what they've stolen.

Flounder
February 16th, 2015, 02:21 PM
The photos she posts are fairly commensurate with her claim to be 19, I feel. The comment I left on her everydaycarry post suggesting the MB be returned to its owner has been deleted, and I'm blocked from following her etc.

heraclitus682
February 18th, 2015, 10:05 PM
Hey all. I didn't realize this thread was still getting new posts. I've tried to contact her through her instagram account some time ago to only be blocked. I never really started this thread to get my pens back, she took them, I don't expect her to return them. I just wanted to warn others and I feel her information is certainly out there now and since there are no new reports of any pen related activity from her I'm thinking she got the pen she wanted and left these forums.

piscov
March 3rd, 2015, 12:45 AM
I'm on a FB group in which there were some trading issues and the suggested way to handle it was this:

Paypal. Say you are going to trade a twisbi with someone who's got a Parker 51 worth about the same. ($50 to make this easy).

You pay me $50 on Paypal, and I pay you $50 (both as purchases, not gifts to friends.)

Yes you are out a couple bucks for the fee, which is dumb on something like $50, but for HUNDREDS of dollars like we have here would be worth it. That way, if *your* side of the trade never arrives you open a Paypal dispute and you get your money back. Then the scammer will have paid for the pens you sent fair and square. (Obviously send things insured and delivery confirmation, enter that info in Paypal.)

There are folks on this board with sterling reps. People I absolutely trust and I wouldn't bother with this with them. But it takes a lot of risk out of trades. If you are doing a high value trade through the mail? Pay one another through Paypal.

This is a very good idea, but not 100% sure!! At the end of the successfully trade you can do a full refund to the counterpart and there are actually no fees to be paid at all. Off course that with paypal you can also be tricked. I once sold a pen on ebay ( 2 or 3 feedback client) was paid, took the payment to my bank account and the next day I was contacted by Paypal and informed the payments was being analysed due to the fact the credit card had been reported stolen. Paypal placed my balance account negative in the amount of what I was paid for but luckily I had not sent the pen yet. Final outcome, I kept the pen, my balance remained negative till the next payment received. The ebay ID left Ebay, Paypal returned the money to the credit card owner. Luckily I did not run to the post office to post the parcel the morning after!!

I believe the credit card was from the actual Ebay ID guy that tried to scam me reporting his credit card stolen.

There are honest and dishonest people everywhere and the later have huge imagination for finding new scams, but I must say am really happy that in our hobby this situations are the odd ones out and we do have a safe forum environment! Between ebay and Forum IMHO the forum is safer if you deal with long time members. I believe ebay does not offer any protection, the protection is offered by Paypal so in the forum if you pay by paypal you have s similer protection as in Ebay

Empty_of_Clouds
March 3rd, 2015, 03:07 AM
I don't know. I bought a pen from a fellow enthusiast and it has never arrived. I had already paid via PayPal. When I contacted the seller they seemed quite concerned but they also seemed perfectly happy to let me take the entire loss. I did suggest that I would write it off as a bad experience (which I couldn't afford at all - I was trying to be decent) but I didn't expect the other party to not at least make noises about meeting me half way on the expense. As it is they have the money and I have neither the pen nor the money. Seems unfair to me. I guess some people are just like that. Won't be doing business with them in the future, very disappointed.

rpsyed
March 7th, 2015, 08:27 PM
I don't know. I bought a pen from a fellow enthusiast and it has never arrived. I had already paid via PayPal. When I contacted the seller they seemed quite concerned but they also seemed perfectly happy to let me take the entire loss. I did suggest that I would write it off as a bad experience (which I couldn't afford at all - I was trying to be decent) but I didn't expect the other party to not at least make noises about meeting me half way on the expense. As it is they have the money and I have neither the pen nor the money. Seems unfair to me. I guess some people are just like that. Won't be doing business with them in the future, very disappointed.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you are able to either get the pen you paid for or your money back. I've so far only bought from retailers and manufactures and those purchases have all ended positively, thankfully, but my understanding is that PayPal will get you your money back in that sort of circumstance?

Empty_of_Clouds
March 7th, 2015, 09:41 PM
I could approach PayPal but all that would do would shift the burden from me to the seller. That seems equally unfair. I took the fair play high ground in this and, more fool me, I am paying for it.

piscov
March 8th, 2015, 12:21 AM
I don't know. I bought a pen from a fellow enthusiast and it has never arrived. I had already paid via PayPal. When I contacted the seller they seemed quite concerned but they also seemed perfectly happy to let me take the entire loss. I did suggest that I would write it off as a bad experience (which I couldn't afford at all - I was trying to be decent) but I didn't expect the other party to not at least make noises about meeting me half way on the expense. As it is they have the money and I have neither the pen nor the money. Seems unfair to me. I guess some people are just like that. Won't be doing business with them in the future, very disappointed.

If you pay with paypal as a merchandising not has sending money to a friend or family you have 45days to open a claim and the seller has to prove that he sent you the item and that it was delivered to your address. That is why all shipping should be done registered with tracking number and signed for.
If you are still inside that period you just need to open a " not received item" case on paypal and they will make the seller provide them with conclusive evudence that the item was sent to you and that it was delivered, so I believe are 100% sure ti get your money back. Try to contacte Paypal if that's the case

Woody
March 12th, 2015, 12:28 PM
Well I'm one to befriend fellow Canadians on this board, and the address is in my neck of the woods. The City of Saskatoon which I visit very often. About a year ago I remember a conversation thru PM's - mentioned my daughter was a teacher at a school in Saskatoon and mentioned the name of the school. Keepitfresh indicated she went to that school. I happened to have my daughter check the school roster and the individual did not show up. That's when I decided not to trade a Sailor 1911 for a VP. Sometimes you just never know. I believe there's quite a discussion about it over on FPN.

Flounder
March 12th, 2015, 01:50 PM
Disturbing that she's still at it. Do you have a link to the FPN thread, I must have missed it?

mhosea
March 12th, 2015, 04:59 PM
Disturbing that she's still at it. Do you have a link to the FPN thread, I must have missed it?

Her profile says she hasn't been active since January 27, 2013, at least under the keepitfresh account. Couldn't find anything with Google searches of the site.