Parker 51 availability

[Empty_of_Clouds]

After searching fruitlessly on eBay (because there is no other option) for a 51 in dark blue with gold cap, I was just about to give up on ever finding a 51 that I might enjoy. Then this popped up on the classifieds:

https://i.imgur.com/iMsQstal.jpg

Now that is a model I could accommodate in my literal handful of pens...


… alas, this also seems almost impossible to find in this condition and at this price (it was $115).


So, in today's market, and ignoring the price-inflators that populate eBay, what are the frequencies of the various 51 models that can still be found at sensible price?*





*not talking about super rare things here.

[penwash]

I think one of the most puzzling part of appraising a Parker 51 is the lack of clear explanation on what makes some of them expensive and the other ones not.

If I can put it simply, it depends on these:

1. Nib
Some rare nibs like gold factory stub (beautiful rare creatures) will justifiably drive the price up. There are also octanium steel alloy factory stub nib (I have one) which is not as rare as the gold one, but still can hike the price up significantly. Most Parker 51 on ebay have F or at best M nibs. These alone shouldn't increase the price of the pen.

2. Cap
There is a website dedicated to the classification of rareness of the Parker 51 cap (just search "Parker 51 cap"). So there is no reason for us not to be able to see if the pen we're buying has one of the rare caps or not. If yes, high price, if not, regular price.

3. Color (of the barrel)
Some colors are more uncommon than the other. The elusive "plum" color will fetch higher price than others. I personally love the Dove Grey, Cordovan, and one of the many blues that I can't remember the name at this moment. So you can expect to pay the premium for a nice plum Parker 51 compared to a black one. Slightly related to the barrel, some of the earlier ones have a "jewel" at the end of the barrel. These are uncommon and looks cool, and can affect the pricing of the pen.

4. Size
This one is easy, the bigger, the more expensive. Although in usage, the Demi Parker 51 is often perfect, not to mention cute.

5. Condition
This affects all the above. A superb condition, plum Parker 51, with a rare cap, and gold factory stub will be at one side of the spectrum (read: Very Expensive), and the black Parker 51 with F nib with ordinary steel cap on the other end. Both could write equally well, but the price difference could be incredible.

Another related aspect that may or may not affect the price is the filling system. Some people including myself much, much, much prefer the vacumatic filler because they are cool. Some prefer the aeromatic filler because they are convenient and familiar. I also love the vacumatic filler because their cap is (to me) a lot more handsome than that of the aeromatic filler. So it's subjective but could affect how much you are willing to pay.

Hopefully this helps demystify some of the haze around Parker 51 pricing.

[AzJon]

As a survey of P51s, I can find no rhyme or reason to their pricing structure. I sold one recently that I thought was at the top of a possible price for the pen (had a few dings in the cap and was definitely user grade), but was told what a "reasonable" price it was to sell a black P51 with no bells or whistles for $75.

P51 is one of those pens that I find is all over the place regarding pricing and has enough hype around it that high prices aren't a deterrent for many.

*I* wouldn't buy one for more than $60-$70 and it had better be in really nice condition, but other folks...

Scouring ebay and such does come up with good deals from time to time but even then: it takes time.

[Bzzer]

I saw a new 51 on the other place for $300, not sure why I would buy it because after the first fill it would be worth $100. I like a 51 that looks like it has lived a little, there are so many around that there is a 51 for all tastes.

[Farmboy]

One can find 51s in all flavors at a pen show. Not uncommon to find restored pens with nothing special in the 75-125 range in quantities sufficient that you could not significantly change the supply and demand equilibrium.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Thanks, penwash, AzJon. I do kinda get the idea regarding certain hard to find models. Unfortunately, as has been seen, on eBay the prices vary wildly among the easy to find models too. Ah well, no matter.

[Paul-H]

Hi

Due to the lack of pens in all my local SH shops and grossly overpriced often junk in my local Antique shops, I have to buy most of my pens on eBay, and find that their is no rhyme or reason behind the prices pens sell for, an example being, I was watch two almost identical Parker 51 Vacumatics, same colour, same cap, same condition. One ended at £20, the other ended at £120.

I collect 51's and never paid more than £30 For Any of them.

One thing you have to watch with eBay is that there are loads listed with a high BIN price, these have been on there for years and almost never sell, but it does give the impression to the uninitiated that they are worth far more than they are. Remember they made millions of them with are large percentage of those pens still in circulation so they are by no means rare.

Some colour or caps are more desirable and those prices reflect their desirability only.

Paul

[Deb]

Of course the prices for 51s in eBay vary. That's the nature of the beast but it's an opportunity, not a problem. Learn eBay skills and you can find some terrific bargains. That's where I source more than half of my stock and I search for good quality, low priced pens so that I can pass low prices on to my customers.

Because there are so many of them out there, the Parker 51 is one of the easiest pens to get what you want at a good price.

[azkid]

Yeah prices on ebay are insane. I count myself very fortunate to have found a 51 custom in an antique mall in repairable condition for under $50. All the other pens there were wildly overpriced, broken, and/or junk.

If you check ebay listings every few days for a month or two—or use saved search and notifications on your phone app—chances are you will find a reasonable deal.

Also, for those that don't know, the sacs in aerometric 51s are pretty long-lived so unrestored pens with good nibs probably just need a flush and maybe light buffing.

PS: also filter for "buy it now" sales and sort by newly listed and save that search as well. I have gotten a deal or two thus way also.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That's the thing. I do check my saved searches very regularly. Part of the issue is I don't really have a way to assess accurately from pictures/descriptions (perhaps inevitable), another part is that I don't have a lot (or indeed any) faith in sellers that I don't know - and let's face it, I don't know any sellers really. As a general statement I am beginning to feel that given my remoteness from anything other than eBay, all vintage pens should be off limits.

[catbert]

Should be possible to see a good number of 51s at the SF pen show (assuming you're still going). Esterbrook barrels too, maybe? :)

[Chrissy]

I hardly ever buy from a seller that I "know," but what I do know is that on ebay "I get the item I paid for or my money back" and if the seller didn't describe it properly, he has to provide a shipping label and pays for me to return it.

[Deb]

That's the thing. I do check my saved searches very regularly. Part of the issue is I don't really have a way to assess accurately from pictures/descriptions (perhaps inevitable), another part is that I don't have a lot (or indeed any) faith in sellers that I don't know - and let's face it, I don't know any sellers really. As a general statement I am beginning to feel that given my remoteness from anything other than eBay, all vintage pens should be off limits.

I know few or none of the sellers I buy from. It isn't a matter of having faith in them. As Chrissy says, if the item is not as described the seller must refund you and a return label will be provided. Your geographical location isn't relevant.

[AzJon]

That's the thing. I do check my saved searches very regularly. Part of the issue is I don't really have a way to assess accurately from pictures/descriptions (perhaps inevitable), another part is that I don't have a lot (or indeed any) faith in sellers that I don't know - and let's face it, I don't know any sellers really. As a general statement I am beginning to feel that given my remoteness from anything other than eBay, all vintage pens should be off limits.

On the flip side, I've managed to grab some nice pens because the price was low, the pictures were garbage, but the gamble payed off. That doesn't always work, mind you, but that landed me an old-style Pelikan M600 and, most recently and appropriately, a first year P51 with a solid sterling cap.

Sometimes, its not the quality of the pen you buy outright, but the joy of finding an restoring a pen to function. A simple Sheaffer Admiral is one of my favorite pens, not because its in great condition (definitely user grade), but because it was the first pen I ever restored. It costing $13 didn't hurt either.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That's the thing. I do check my saved searches very regularly. Part of the issue is I don't really have a way to assess accurately from pictures/descriptions (perhaps inevitable), another part is that I don't have a lot (or indeed any) faith in sellers that I don't know - and let's face it, I don't know any sellers really. As a general statement I am beginning to feel that given my remoteness from anything other than eBay, all vintage pens should be off limits.

I know few or none of the sellers I buy from. It isn't a matter of having faith in them. As Chrissy says, if the item is not as described the seller must refund you and a return label will be provided. Your geographical location isn't relevant.

I understand what you are saying but geography does play a part here; it often takes two weeks or more to send something here (at the cheapest postal rate). That coupled with the irritation of receiving a pen that has been misrepresented by the seller, the additional time spent lodging a refund request and waiting for it to be agreed by the seller (or having to escalate to eBay resolution centre), the time taken to repackage the item and return to the post office. These are things that potentially sour every speculative transaction.


Because there are so many of them out there, the Parker 51 is one of the easiest pens to get what you want at a good price.

Apparently this rule doesn't seem to work for me. Don't know why, but what I can say is I have rarely seen a model that I really like that is also at a reasonable price. Again, I'm not looking at rare models.



Should be possible to see a good number of 51s at the SF pen show (assuming you're still going). Esterbrook barrels too, maybe?

While it is likely that I will be able to get to the show for a few hours, I haven't planned on it being a buying expedition, and I don't expect that to change.

[catbert]

Should be possible to see a good number of 51s at the SF pen show (assuming you're still going). Esterbrook barrels too, maybe?

While it is likely that I will be able to get to the show for a few hours, I haven't planned on it being a buying expedition, and I don't expect that to change.

Fair enough. A pen show seems like an opportunity free from most of the impediments you've cited is all. A good chance to see what's available at least.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

A reasonable assumption. My main excuse for going to the show is to get a feel for some of the modern pens, take notes on sizes and fit to hand, and then make a decision (if I want to) back home. Modern pens are at least easily available online, and are of course brand new. So basically just going for the try before you buy idea really.

[calamus]

I live in a somewhat remote area and have to buy a lot of stuff online. I often buy on eBay. I just accept that it might take a couple of weeks, and that once in a while (quite rarely, really) I'll have to arrange a return because something wasn't as described. Not only will eBay stand behind me, but PayPal will too, or if I use a credit card (generally I don't because I prefer PayPal), my credit card company will also stand behind me. I always pay attention to the feedback rating of the seller and read the feedback, and carefully read the descriptions and look at all the photos, enlarged if available. I'll also ask the seller a question or two if it's necessary. I've been buying and selling on eBay for 20 years or more, and very rarely have had a problem.

[Chrissy]

the additional time spent lodging a refund request and waiting for it to be agreed by the seller (or having to escalate to eBay resolution centre), the time taken to repackage the item and return to the post office.
This suggests some misunderstanding of how ebay now works. As soon as you receive an item that you wish to return, you select "I want to return the item" in the replies on the "contact seller" form. It automatically opens a case with ebay. No choice there at all. The seller has to agree to accept the return and, if the item isn't as described, must issue a label within 7 days or ebay step in and issue it. ebay actually tells the seller that he will be marked down on his dashboard if ebay have to step in to deal with it.
I've never had a problem with repackaging such a small item like a pen and sticking the return label on there. It's certainly much better than being stuck with something that isn't what you paid for.
If you live somewhere where ebay might be an important resource, then there are times when you have to use it even though you should use it as wisely as you can. Either that or miss out on the items you want.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Hmm, didn't know about this change. Certainly reduces the turnaround time to a minimum of 5 weeks (still a lot of time though). Not sure that this change makes much difference to how I feel about dealing with eBay sellers. The options appear to be: go with a well-known player and pay a highly inflated price, or go for the cheaper priced items and risk getting a lemon (I've had more lemons than good pens, so my confidence is through the floor in this respect).

Ah well. It's not that important I guess.

note: I would have been tempted by the one in the OP except the seller has a postal policy that hammers the overseas buyer.

[Deb]

Looking back over this thread I am reminded of the quote, "Positive people find a solution for every problem. Negative people find a problem for every solution."

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That's a rather unkind remark.

I've been looking for a non-eBay solution here. All I'm getting is advice to use the website (eBay) that I've clearly expressed I have issues with. Obviously my objections to using that site are well rooted, and my reaction to advice to use eBay will be repetitive.

Does anyone have any non-eBay and non-pen show related advice for people who live far from the usual markets?

[Farmboy]

That's a rather unkind remark.

I've been looking for a non-eBay solution here. All I'm getting is advice to use the website (eBay) that I've clearly expressed I have issues with. Obviously my objections to using that site are well rooted, and my reaction to advice to use eBay will be repetitive.

Does anyone have any non-eBay and non-pen show related advice for people who live far from the usual markets?

I source most of my pens from the wild but it takes a lot of looking. eBay has its pitfalls but I've done well there. Pen Shows are a great place to find 51s but they require travel.

From any source, with vintage pens, you are limited to what pens are on hand in terms of color, cap style, nib, etc.

Have you considered an online retailer such as Peyton Street Pens? I know Teri and her crew and they do a good job.

Of course with retail sites you do pay a bit more.

[Deb]

[QUOTE=Empty_of_Clouds;260231]That's a rather unkind remark.
/QUOTE]

You may choose to regard it as unkind. However, you might consider that it reflects your response to perceived difficulty, not just in this thread but more generally in this forum. If you were able to deal with that, you might get greater enjoyment from your interest in fountain pens.

[catbert]

That's a rather unkind remark.

I've been looking for a non-eBay solution here. All I'm getting is advice to use the website (eBay) that I've clearly expressed I have issues with. Obviously my objections to using that site are well rooted, and my reaction to advice to use eBay will be repetitive.

Does anyone have any non-eBay and non-pen show related advice for people who live far from the usual markets?

Wouldn't have recommended a pen show if you weren't already attending one.

But failing that, another endorsement for Peyton Street: I've had several nice Parkers from Teri, including a 51 quite similar to the one in the OP.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

[QUOTE=Empty_of_Clouds;260231]That's a rather unkind remark.
/QUOTE]

You may choose to regard it as unkind. However, you might consider that it reflects your response to perceived difficulty, not just in this thread but more generally in this forum. If you were able to deal with that, you might get greater enjoyment from your interest in fountain pens.

And yet if it wasn't for people like me there would be considerably less content generation on this website. :) A paradox perhaps.

[Sandy]

Here are two British shops I've used. They recondition their pens - and the prices are higher than e-bay, but you will get a pen that works.

https://www.vintagefountainpens.co.uk/ourshop/

https://www.penhome.co.uk/

[calamus]

Here's another, but with prices that are often better than eBay: https://www.goodwriterssales.com/

[AzJon]

Here's another, but with prices that are often better than eBay: https://www.goodwriterssales.com/

That is Deb's website, in case you were unaware. :)

[junglejim]

Here's another, but with prices that are often better than eBay: https://www.goodwriterssales.com/

That is Deb's website, in case you were unaware. :)

She also does a great job on her blog. Nice resource on vintage pens from the UK.

All the Best.

[calamus]

And she has Parkers, and Empty_of_Clouds can buy online from a dealer he knows that's not eBay! Problem solved!

[Farmboy]

But no 51s
And she has Parkers, and Empty_of_Clouds can buy online from a dealer he knows that's not eBay! Problem solved!

[catbert]

A theoretical solution for a thought experiment.

[calamus]

But no 51s
And she has Parkers, and Empty_of_Clouds can buy online from a dealer he knows that's not eBay! Problem solved!

At the moment.

[Deb]

Nope. No 51s at the moment. You never know when one might appear, though...

[penwash]

Nope. No 51s at the moment. You never know when one might appear, though...

That is so true. The nature of inventory like yours and mine is quite fickle :)

[heraclitus682]

EOC, what exactly are you looking for in a 51? Color, nib, filling type etc...

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Nothing overly specific. Are the differences between filling systems really that significant? I mean the vacumatics may require servicing every few years, but is that the only difference?

Colours: the combination in the OP is nice. I had a midnight blue 51 once, though it had a lustraloy cap when a gold cap would have looked nicer. The 51 DJ I sold had the cap that I really like, but it is not a cap found on aeros or single jewel vacs.

Really when it comes to colours it is easier to say what I don't like: very pale grey (?dove grey), brown, mustard, green, and teal (on the fence).

Nib: fine or extra fine.

Overall though I am not looking for a beat up pen.

It's an idle search, not one that I am pursuing with any real enthusiasm.

[penwash]

I mean the vacumatics may require servicing every few years, but is that the only difference?

Where do you hear this from?
Unless you regularly store the pen in a 40 degrees Celcius attic, a vacumatic filler restored with a brand new rubber diaphragm should last you a decade or maybe two.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

This forum, other forums and websites. When I say 'every few years' I am only referring to the stuff I've read that says that it does need servicing, whereas the aeros generally do not (apparently). But hey, I know nothing about pens, so take it with a pinch of salt.

[Amos]

Paul you are a lucky man. I have been collecting 51 for over 30 years. The price seems to be about £130 at the moment. Was at the London Pen Show last weekend and there were some at £200+. I must admit I have so many, about 500 that I chop and change nibs, or like last weekend buy nibs. (£30-£40) As an accountant I usually use fine, but with a very short name now have a collection of broads to sign. I prefer the vacumatic over the aeromatic purely for heavier flow. Had about 6 made by Mr Kullock in bright colours, and one in silver
regards

[pajaro]

I mean the vacumatics may require servicing every few years, but is that the only difference?

Where do you hear this from?
Unless you regularly store the pen in a 40 degrees Celcius attic, a vacumatic filler restored with a brand new rubber diaphragm should last you a decade or maybe two.

I have repeatedly had about ten to twelve years from Vac 51s before resac is needed. If you like the way the pen works, that shouldn't be a show stopper. It is an older design and it has its charm.

[pajaro]

If you like the aerometric 51 but like the Vac cap, get a Vac cap and use it with an aero. You often find 51s with parts that weren't original, and I have bought aero models on ebay that came with a Vac cap.

Vac filler cool? I never was confident I had enough ink in the pen. It always seemed that I had to press the filler as many as 43,647,323 times, and even then no idea if it were full.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Today I bid on this one:

https://i.imgur.com/KJLdoQAm.jpg


A perfect example of what I want: that type, that colour, that cap. I bid $110 and it went for about $140. That gives an idea of what I was prepared to pay. The question is whether that is an unrealistic price in general for a pen of this condition/type - and that the winning bid was just overenthusiastic.

[Sailor Kenshin]

If you have sixteen or so bucks, and aren't at all particular, you might buy a Wing Sung 601 'vac' filler. I don't even know if it is an actual vac filler, but it has an ink window. And comes in all sorts of colors. What more could you want?

I know, I know....

[calamus]

If you have sixteen or so bucks, and aren't at all particular, you might buy a Wing Sung 601 'vac' filler. I don't even know if it is an actual vac filler, but it has an ink window. And comes in all sorts of colors. What more could you want?

I know, I know....

There are Montblanc clones too...

[Farmboy]

I think the correct question is "How many bucks are in an 'or so'?"

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Nope, I'm (hopefully) going to get one decent 51 before I kark it, and the one in the picture is about as close to ideal as I can find. Just have to find another one (cos that one is sold). Could take a while with only the cesspit of the internet auction sites to go by.



Edit: a little help would be appreciated.

[pajaro]

Today I bid on this one:

https://i.imgur.com/KJLdoQAm.jpg


A perfect example of what I want: that type, that colour, that cap. I bid $110 and it went for about $140. That gives an idea of what I was prepared to pay. The question is whether that is an unrealistic price in general for a pen of this condition/type - and that the winning bid was just overenthusiastic.

So, you are looking for a Cedar Blue 51 Vac with the blue diamond cap. Shouldn't be that hard to find. Prices have gone up, but the people who like Vac 51s, and who must like resacs every few years, seem to be driving this. I think it is really nostalgia. You could get a 51 Midnight Blue aero and get a spare Blue Diamond to use with it. I sometimes use a Blue Diamond cap on one of my Midnight Blue aeros because my Cedar Blue Vac 51 needs a resac.

I have a Wing Sung 601 Vac filler. This feels better than a 51 Vac, but the nib is different. It's no less smooth than a Vac 51, but it is not the same in feel. It appears to be a very well finished pen. I am waiting to see if the sac lasts longer than a 51 Vac's sac (oops, diaphragm). I would like to get rid of my 51Vacs, but I don't feel like doing the resacs.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Haven't seen another one like this yet, though I am looking at a dark grey version (same cap). The cedar blue vac in the picture is my ideal 51.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

hah! Got the dark grey one. Not as nice as the cedar blue but people without pen-related friends can't be choosers.

[pajaro]

Dark gray? Would that be a Navy Gray aerometric filler? The Vacumatic gray is a light gray.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

This one. I guess it's the Navy grey? Although under $100 I probably overpaid, but other options were slim to non-existent.

https://i.imgur.com/mFwbcUdl.jpg

[pajaro]

I think you did well. That is a beautiful pen.

[azkid]

Seems like a good find and reasonable price from what I have seen them go for the last 6 months.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

As long as it writes. The cap I like, the colour of the pen is acceptable rather than preferred though. The price? As noted elsewhere, I have no idea what is a fair price for 51s, as Bay prices are all over the place.

[Scrawler]

I would be delighted with that pen at that price, in that apparent condition, if it is working. You seem to favour the vacs. I do too. My daughter has a cedar blue aerometric in pristine condition which she received as a birthday gift. It is a beautiful colour and still going strong.

[pajaro]

The pen above in navy gray is aerometric. The Vac gray is a lighter shade, dove gray. Cedar Blue is a Vac color. The aerometric dark blue is Midnight blue. Confusing. Maybe they should have used the same names and colors. That might have been confusing too.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The pen above in navy grey is actually a vacumatic. Thus:

https://i.imgur.com/EbneEMxl.jpg

[Farmboy]

What is the date code and which imprint is on the barrel?

[Empty_of_Clouds]

No idea, I don't have the pen yet. Looking at the listing photos there are no imprints to be seen. It's probably non-original knowing my luck with 51s, but if it works it will have to do.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Update>

The 51 has arrived. There are no imprints on the barrel, so I guess I've just been suckered again?

[Jon Szanto]

Don't always assume the worst, ok?

Double- and triple-check your pen. I just pulled out one 51 that I swore would have been an example like yours. Under good loupe magnification and putting the pen in a variety of lighting, I can finally see the very lightest of imprints, with all the information there. You'll find it just below the clutch ring, circling the pen. I have read that even fresh from the factory the imprints could be very lightly stamped, and sometimes in restoration they simply get polished away.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I think that when Todd asks a question there is always a reason for it. The intimation is that this could be a replacement barrel, and that lack of an imprint would suggest this. However, I do take your point, but given my track record of being fragged by eBay sellers I hope you will understand why am inclined to negativity in this case.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

The pen is also nowhere near as dark as it looks in the photo, but on the other hand doesn't not look as light as pictures of dove grey.

[Farmboy]

Without an imprint. This is what I anticipated with the Navy Grey color. The replacement barrels in Navy were not imprinted. You may well have one of the hard to find SJ Vac 51 colors.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I have my doubts, but it's not that important really. Here is a badly lighted image against a standard grey card to try to show the colour. Hard to capture with a desk lamp. I've never seen a dove grey example so cannot compare.

https://i.imgur.com/gzkCfjBh.jpg


Edit: looking around on eBay reveals an incredible variation in grey 51 colour. Now this may be due to poor photography (of which I am an exponent!), or there really are lots of different shades of grey (heh). Some of the navy versions look to be more greenish, and some of the dove ones look to be very pale grey. Mine is somewhat in between, so I suspect it is the bog-standard dove grey and not anything more interesting.

Time to search around for a nicer pen colour to go with this cap.