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PoolBoy
July 20th, 2019, 11:26 AM
For any of you who might be interested, Jason (jjm5812) is back.

Apparently he was successful in registering here and elsewhere using a different user name.
He is currently selling pens here using the name CaseSensitive. He has an identical post over on Pentrace using the name Casey.

Check it out. The dots are ridiculously easy to connect.
Just FYI folks.

SIR
July 20th, 2019, 11:49 AM
Would be good to know how you worked out 'CaseSensitive'/'Casey' is Jason Mei aka jjm5812

PoolBoy
July 20th, 2019, 11:58 AM
Would be good to know how you worked out 'CaseSensitive'/'Casey' is Jason Mei aka jjm5812

I want to be very careful that I do not violate any of the sub-forum rules. Feel free to PM your e-mail address to me, if you wish. We can discuss on our private e-mails.
Thanks!

Deb
July 20th, 2019, 02:42 PM
If you make a public announcement like that, you should present your evidence publicly too.

Jon Szanto
July 20th, 2019, 03:39 PM
If you make a public announcement like that, you should present your evidence publicly too.

Not to mention the OP is a new account as well. I don't mind warnings, but I don't like unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations.

SIR
July 20th, 2019, 05:43 PM
I want to be very careful that I do not violate any of the sub-forum rules. Feel free to PM your e-mail address to me, if you wish. We can discuss on our private e-mails.
Thanks!

As others have already stated, the details are important to verify the veracity of the concerns, as well as inform the community on what warning signs to watch out for.

PoolBoy
July 20th, 2019, 05:48 PM
Thank you Deb & Jon. I completely understand your points and I want to do my best to explain what I have done and why I have done it in the way you’ve seen. FPG has never been short of differences of opinion and, if we disagree, I hope we can do so in a collegial manner.

First, I would be happy to communicate further with either of you or any member including CaseSensitive via PM. Some have already chosen to do so and we have had some very good exchanges. I believe every one I have communicated with thus far had already come to the same conclusion or did so as a result of our messages back and forth.

I am not doing this in secret or behind CaseSensitive’s back. He is welcome to make a post disavowing that he is jjm5812. For me to present my evidence that CaseSensitive, & Casey (used on Pentrace) and jjim5812 (Jason J Mei) are all one and the same person might require the disclosure of information which some would say are personal details. And that, I think, is against the rules of this sub-forum, isn’t it Deb??

I am not saying anything disparaging or offensive about anyone. I am just sharing evidence driven information which, I believe, some members might find insightful. Enough said………

Honestly, anyone on this Forum could spend about 5-10 minutes of their time doing the same due diligence as me and they would come to the same conclusion. The dots are incredibly easy to connect.

Yes, I am a new account. But, that does not mean I am new here. Only that I have finally found something I thought worthy of a post. And, you have to register to post. Maybe now that I am registered I will post more. I don’t know. But, if my new registration makes me less creditable there is nothing I can do about it other than hope that one of the regulars will corroborate my findings.

Finally, I am not here to break rules; it is to share information. If the Moderator has any concern about my post(s), I will gladly delete them.

Thank you.

Deb
July 20th, 2019, 06:21 PM
I don't see that explaining how you have come to your conclusion breaks any rule. The point of the market feedback sub-forum is to enlighten the membership and I don't understand why that should be done in email rather than here.

Jon Szanto
July 20th, 2019, 07:11 PM
I don't see that explaining how you have come to your conclusion breaks any rule. The point of the market feedback sub-forum is to enlighten the membership and I don't understand why that should be done in email rather than here.

Precisely. If you are treating this as a public forum where you can call out a party and impune their reputation, you owe it to that same public forum to reveal that information to all in the same manner. I left passing notes in class back in high school, and that is what all that back-channel stuff is.

FredRydr
July 20th, 2019, 08:06 PM
Based upon my view of images of pens listed on FPGeeks by jjm5812 (top photo) and pens listed on Pentrace by CaseCensitive or Casey (bottom photo), the background fabric under the pens appears to be the same, perhaps on the same dark wood laminate.

I do not use Pentrace, and I don't understand how Casey and CaseSensitive edit one another's posts (as indicated).

https://i.imgur.com/UvNOPLo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ifl2rOx.jpg

SIR
July 20th, 2019, 08:24 PM
Based upon my view of images of pens listed on FPGeeks by jjm5812 (top photo) and pens listed on Pentrace by CaseCensitive or Casey (bottom photo), the background fabric under the pens appears to be the same, perhaps on the same dark wood laminate.


Same style of presentation too - definitely more than circumstantial evidence.

Would one be right in guessing there's a lot of similarity in the accompanying text of the adverts?

Bisquitlips
July 20th, 2019, 09:39 PM
Makes me go hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

dfo
July 21st, 2019, 07:24 PM
hhmmmmmmmmmmmm

Scrawler
July 22nd, 2019, 04:38 PM
Well, isn't this amusing.

Chrissy
July 23rd, 2019, 12:37 AM
As of this morning, this seems to prove at least that "CaseSensitive" and "Casey" on pentrace PenMarket are the same person:

48646

Jon Szanto
July 23rd, 2019, 12:39 AM
As of this morning, this seems to prove at least that "CaseSensitive" and "Casey" on pentrace PenMarket are the same person:

I think someone should let Len P. know about this.

Chrissy
July 23rd, 2019, 02:04 AM
As of this morning, this seems to prove at least that "CaseSensitive" and "Casey" on pentrace PenMarket are the same person:

I think someone should let Len P. know about this.
I'm not a member on pentrace and I'm afraid I don't know Len P. :(

PoolBoy
July 23rd, 2019, 07:00 AM
As of this morning, this seems to prove at least that "CaseSensitive" and "Casey" on pentrace PenMarket are the same person:

I think someone should let Len P. know about this.
I'm not a member on pentrace and I'm afraid I don't know Len P. :(

Besides "CaseSensitive" and "Casey," Jason Mei has also used the following screen names on Pentrace:
"Chris," "pen2find," "J.M." & "Jay."

Chrissy
July 23rd, 2019, 08:44 AM
He's also changed the background to his pens on Imgur

Jon Szanto
July 23rd, 2019, 09:59 AM
As of this morning, this seems to prove at least that "CaseSensitive" and "Casey" on pentrace PenMarket are the same person:

I think someone should let Len P. know about this.
I'm not a member on pentrace and I'm afraid I don't know Len P. :(

Ok, I'll drop him a note. I hate to point to the "he said, she said" threads but I don't know any other way.

PoolBoy
July 23rd, 2019, 10:52 AM
Ok, I'll drop him a note. I hate to point to the "he said, she said" threads but I don't know any other way.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Jon Szanto. I completely understood where you were coming from when you were irritated that I did not post any more "proof" but, as seen by what he has done with the Imgur photos, he will change, morph and alter whatever he can so that he is able to keep his predatory scamming schemes alive and well. I think we are foolish to post the ways by which we have become wise to his games here, where he can read them. Like a termite that runs into a steel foundation, he'll just back up and go in another direction.

If you would feel better knowing more specifics about how you can become 100% convinced beyond "he said, she said," feel free to PM me. Yes, it's like passing notes in grade school but, if it can help us to keep this creep contained I think it is worth it.

Thanks for listening to my point of view and for alerting LenP of Pentrace.

PoolBoy
July 23rd, 2019, 05:47 PM
For "SIR."

Hello. Thanks for reaching out to me. I have tried to reply to your PM but I get an auto response which says your PM In Box is full and my message cannot be delivered.
Please let me know when you are able to receive PMs and I'll resend mine to you.

Thanks-

SIR
July 24th, 2019, 10:16 AM
Sorry! didn't realise i had a full inbox... made space now though ;).

PoolBoy
July 26th, 2019, 08:05 AM
My thanks to one of the FPG "elders" who was thoughtful enough to forward this link to me this morning.

http://members3.boardhost.com/PenMarket/msg/1564112707.html

Apparently, someone here alerted PenTrace's Moderator (LenP) to the Kudzu saga and my post from a few days ago. IMO, he or she did the pen community a real favor by spreading the word to our sister pen forum. Hopefully Fountain Pen Network was alerted as well.........

Chrissy
July 26th, 2019, 09:07 AM
I tried to send a message to the PenTrace admin via their Contact page, but I wasn't sure it had worked, as it then gave me an error to a different web-site. In the message I included the link to this thread.

Jon Szanto
July 26th, 2019, 09:44 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I'm a Pentrace member and contacted Len. He is a good steward of their forum and took all of this into consideration. All I did was supply the info.

Chrissy
July 26th, 2019, 10:14 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I'm a Pentrace member and contacted Len. He is a good steward of their forum and took all of this into consideration. All I did was supply the info.

Good job. :thumb:

gloucesterman-18
July 31st, 2019, 06:03 PM
Thanks to all the people who have contributed to this and the above referenced threads. Although I probably would not have purchased the any of the pens advertised (for various reasons) I VERY much appreciate what others have done here. AND what I have learned.

Again, THANK YOU!

Pendragon
August 4th, 2019, 06:50 PM
Who is Jason Mei? I sense that he is not getting much love here.

Farmboy
August 4th, 2019, 08:46 PM
He sold the same pen to multiple buyers then sent a $5 pen to one of the buyer of the $850 pen.

Pendragon
August 4th, 2019, 11:21 PM
I have to admit I laughed when I read that. What a little punk. That dude has the cojones of a brass monkey. I'll bet more than a few credit card charges got reversed when that happened. And now a thoroughly annoyed pen buyer has his mailing address.

mhosea
August 5th, 2019, 12:09 AM
I have to admit I laughed when I read that. What a little punk. That dude has the cojones of a brass monkey. I'll bet more than a few credit card charges got reversed when that happened. And now a thoroughly annoyed pen buyer has his mailing address.


https://youtu.be/_cJO7pkx2jQ

Chrissy
August 5th, 2019, 03:08 AM
I have to admit I laughed when I read that. What a little punk. That dude has the cojones of a brass monkey. I'll bet more than a few credit card charges got reversed when that happened. And now a thoroughly annoyed pen buyer has his mailing address.

Just in case you never read this thread (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/28109-Beware-seller-jjm5812-Jason-Mei), it might be worth a look. :)

The buyer who paid $850 for an Omas Arco pen from Jason Mei, and instead only received a cheap pen, has just recently managed to get Google to give her her money back, after a tough fight. It's currently believed "That dude" still has that money and in all likelihood he still has that pen. :(

Plenty of people probably have his mailing address, including the authorities. :)

Pendragon
August 5th, 2019, 04:48 PM
Just in case you never read this thread (http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/28109-Beware-seller-jjm5812-Jason-Mei), it might be worth a look. :)
I started, but only got to the third sentence, which read:

"Jason then asked me to use either Cash Pay app or Google Pay instead because he didn’t want to pay PayPal’s fees and he was concerned about a hold on the funds because he hadn’t used his PayPal account for a while"

That alone raises a sea of red flags. Run don't walk to the nearest exit! When there are irregularities in payment methods or shipping delays, along with a litany of excuses, that is virtually always trouble in spades.


The buyer who paid $850 for an Omas Arco pen from Jason Mei, and instead only received a cheap pen, has just recently managed to get Google to give her her money back, after a tough fight. It's currently believed "That dude" still has that money and in all likelihood he still has that pen. :(
That is assuming he ever had the pen in the first place. It could be a photo he got somewhere on the Internet. Sure, it really sucks that the buyer had to put up a tough fight to get her money back, but the important thing is that she did get her money back.


Plenty of people probably have his mailing address, including the authorities. :)
Plenty of people? If he has done this before, then how did he get away with doing it again? That is not a rhetorical question, I am simply curious as to how he was able to get away with it multiple times.

If filing police reports does not do the trick, then perhaps "plenty of people" can send a joint letter or email with evidence to the District Attorney (or equivalent in his area). The wheels that squeak the loudest get oiled. Since he has been doxed, that also means lawsuits can be filed to recover lost funds. Stealing from people who have one's address is incredibly dumb.

Anyways, thanks for cluing me into who Jason Mei is. I hope nobody else gets scammed by one of the bad apples!

Pendragon
August 5th, 2019, 05:06 PM
I have to admit I laughed when I read that. What a little punk. That dude has the cojones of a brass monkey. I'll bet more than a few credit card charges got reversed when that happened. And now a thoroughly annoyed pen buyer has his mailing address.


https://youtu.be/_cJO7pkx2jQ
Rude and insensitive how? I poked fun at the scammer, not the scammees. It sounds like El Brasso will be in Sing Sing soon enough anyways. Kind of sad, as it did not have to be that way.

Jon Szanto
August 5th, 2019, 05:12 PM
Rude and insensitive how?

I think Mike's post was tongue-in-cheek.

mhosea
August 5th, 2019, 06:04 PM
Half-joke. Meant to be amusing to all, but extolling a criminal's bravery in the presence of his victims is uncouth.

Pendragon
August 5th, 2019, 06:25 PM
Point taken. My humble apologies if I offended anyone.

Bravery? I would call it foolishness.

SIR
August 6th, 2019, 01:09 AM
I'm thinking maybe there is at least a half chance that his mailing address is a spoof or belongs to someone who can maintain plausible deniability.

silverlifter
August 6th, 2019, 10:15 AM
Why assume that he is some sort of criminal mastermind when the reality is he can't even manage two usernames on the same board?

He is more like a pathetic junky, delusionally hoping that somehow these crappy cons won't come back to bite him. The guy is a loser in every sense of the word.

SIR
August 6th, 2019, 05:21 PM
Why assume that he is some sort of criminal mastermind

i'm certainly not implying any particular genius is at work, rather that certain behaviours simply and naturally complement and accompany each other.

PoolBoy
August 6th, 2019, 07:20 PM
Why assume that he is some sort of criminal mastermind

i'm certainly not implying any particular genius is at work, rather that certain behaviours simply and naturally complement and accompany each other.

Correct.
Jason Mei is a sociopath.

Here is one of many references; see what you think............
https://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Pendragon
August 7th, 2019, 03:46 PM
"Jason Mei" might be a con artist, plain and simple. One or more of psychopath, Machiavellian and narcissist. @SIR is right.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/04/harvard-grad-studies-cons-and-how-to-avoid-them/

Did anyone raise the alert on Reddit r/fountainpens? That place has pretty good reach and might provide additional info. At the very least, it would likely prevent others from falling victim to the scam.

PoolBoy
August 7th, 2019, 06:25 PM
"Did anyone raise the alert on Reddit r/fountainpens? That place has pretty good reach and might provide additional info. At the very least, it would likely prevent others from falling victim to the scam.

A FPG member contacted the Moderator of Pentrace (LenP) who, after doing his own due diligence, left a warning for Pentrace readers.

Another FPG member tried to contact the Moderator and Administrator of Fountain Pen Network (FPN), several times, but they did not reply. This same FPG member made a post on FPN suggesting that FPN members review the information posted here and at Pentrace..... but that post was taken down almost immediately.

I do not know if anyone has tried to alert the Moderator on Reddit.

Jon Szanto
August 7th, 2019, 08:00 PM
I do not know if anyone has tried to alert the Moderator on Reddit.

If anyone does anything with reddit, it would need to be addressed to the mods on r/Pen_Swap. There wouldn't be any sense in posting to the main r/fountainpens.

Pendragon
August 8th, 2019, 01:36 AM
A FPG member contacted the Moderator of Pentrace (LenP) who, after doing his own due diligence, left a warning for Pentrace readers.

Another FPG member tried to contact the Moderator and Administrator of Fountain Pen Network (FPN), several times, but they did not reply. This same FPG member made a post on FPN suggesting that FPN members review the information posted here and at Pentrace..... but that post was taken down almost immediately.
Maybe Jason upgraded his membership there? ;) Seriously, that is a really bad attitude on FPN's part and puts their members at risk. At least Len and Pentrace took action. That's good work.

SIR
August 8th, 2019, 05:42 AM
Another FPG member tried to contact the Moderator and Administrator of Fountain Pen Network (FPN), several times, but they did not reply. This same FPG member made a post on FPN suggesting that FPN members review the information posted here and at Pentrace..... but that post was taken down almost immediately.
Maybe Jason upgraded his membership there? ;) Seriously, that is a really bad attitude on FPN's part and puts their members at risk

Fairly typical behaviour from FPN mods - they have also been implicated in alleged pen selling scams before;

https://kamiyu910.tumblr.com/post/163733677098

rubendh
August 8th, 2019, 06:21 AM
Maybe Jason upgraded his membership there? ;)

I got scammed by Jason a while back for a Stipula Etruria and his account (on FPN) on which he listed the pens, has sent messages and everything got deleted.
Since it just says 'deleted profile' I'm not sure wether he got banned or if he deleted his account himself to escape the heat

PoolBoy
August 8th, 2019, 06:48 AM
When I heard that the Moderator / Administrators of FPN were not responding to PMs & e-mails alerting them to the scam, I was not surprised by that fairly typical behaviour.

The FPG member who contacted them and got no response subsequently put up a post on FPN...... which was immediately deleted. I saw a draft of the post. It simply alerted FPN members to the presence of an active scam and referred them to Pentrace & FPG for further information. No names, links, etc. Should have been a "legal" post.

Makes one wonder...........

Sailor Kenshin
August 8th, 2019, 09:13 AM
But who are these FPN people allegedly taking part in scams? 'Ray' and 'Andrea' could be anyone. And who is the accuser?

penwash
August 8th, 2019, 09:44 AM
I do not know if anyone has tried to alert the Moderator on Reddit.

If anyone does anything with reddit, it would need to be addressed to the mods on r/Pen_Swap. There wouldn't be any sense in posting to the main r/fountainpens.

Spot on, Jon.

I have alerted one of the mods for r/Pen_Swap, who is also a member here. He may join this conversation soon.

Jon Szanto
August 8th, 2019, 10:20 AM
When I heard that the Moderator / Administrators of FPN were not responding to PMs & e-mails alerting them to the scam, I was not surprised by that fairly typical behaviour.

I'm just going to throw this out there. If anyone knows my history, they know I'm not an FPN apologist in any way, shape or form.

The fact that there has been no response may mean precisely nothing. Before people go off on conspiracy theories and accusations of collusion in pen scams, take into account the following: I've recently seen a thread on PT whereby a person simply wanted to have their email acknowledged so they could *join* FPN, and they had been waiting for a simple response for over 2 weeks. Another person, who was a sub-forum mod, replied that there was only one person who dealt with membership requests and that they had been dealing with personal/family issues and had not been able to deal with mod stuff.

So this big honking pen forum has precisely ONE person to deal with that stuff and no backup and people have to wait. It is entirely within reason to consider that a note sent to them about some seller being an ass is getting the same treatment.

Not everything is what it seems. Perspective is important.

Pendragon
August 8th, 2019, 11:53 AM
Fairly typical behaviour from FPN mods - they have also been implicated in alleged pen selling scams before;

https://kamiyu910.tumblr.com/post/163733677098The FPN in that link is on Facebook. It is not part of, and is not controlled by, the FPN forum. Just to be clear, I was being facetious about the paid membership levels, and don't believe for a second that fraud would be tolerated at FPN. As Jon correctly notes, a lack of response by itself does not imply inaction or that the communication was discarded unread. I still think deleting the post was a bad idea, though. Regardless, any communication to any forum regarding scams should include supporting evidence. It is about preventing more fraud from occurring, not an placating an angry mob online.

The "evidence" at that link consists primarily of heavily redacted arguing, sarcasm, long-winded whining, and allegations. It looks to me like two people getting into a pissing contest, not hard evidence. Again, the solution is to buy from known good sellers whenever possible, and to never use payment methods unless they have effective dispute resolution mechanisms (i.e. you can quickly and easily get your money back in case of fraud). Pen buyers' last line of protection, and the one most effective, is between their ears.

People buying pens online might now know what to look for, what payment methods are the best to use, and what to do in case of fraud. Has anybody ever considered writing a best pen buying and selling practices document? Making it a group effort would divide the effort, and also allow multiple people to proofread the work of the others. Submit the final draft to some very experienced pen collectors for final approval, just to make sure everything is golden. Information on pen selling is just as important as for pen buying. None of us want to get ripped off, regardless of whether we are buying or selling a pen. The final document could be put into PDF format, and then linked to on multiple forums and otherwise widely distributed.

Just a thought, but maybe this would help? It would be nice to have all the information in a single place. The various pen clubs might also be willing to help out.

SIR
August 8th, 2019, 12:08 PM
Not being funny, but... given the various FPN moderators' reputations - i can only compare their collective behaviour to the catholic church and the lack of action in the multitude of child abuse cases.

Empty_of_Clouds
August 8th, 2019, 05:31 PM
As a former moderator on FPN I can say that I "saw" some very questionable actions and attitudes from other moderators. My disquiet over this, and the voicing of it, ultimately led to me being completely banned from the site. Despite that, I do support what Jon has said upthread. Too many unknowns.

Pendragon
August 8th, 2019, 07:54 PM
When I was on FPN, I eventually got angry at all the bs every time I logged in, and so left for good. Hopefully, others won't let one bad place diminish their enthusiasm for pens. Life is too short.


Not being funny, but... given the various FPN moderators' reputations - i can only compare their collective behaviour to the catholic church and the lack of action in the multitude of child abuse cases.


As a former moderator on FPN I can say that I "saw" some very questionable actions and attitudes from other moderators. My disquiet over this, and the voicing of it, ultimately led to me being completely banned from the site. Despite that, I do support what Jon has said upthread. Too many unknowns.

That kind of ties in with the thread https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php/28477-Apathy-Sunset, and is why Reddit r/fountainpens is drawing people away from FPN. In the end, we can let antipathy for FPN pollute and partially define the fountain pen hobby, or we can just let those bad vibes go. IMHO, we should not let its influence reach out here, derailing threads and otherwise darkening the sky.

If anybody is still upset with FPN, then read The Drunken Lord's hilarious posts (https://www.google.com/search?q="the+drunken+lord"+fpn). That way you will get a laugh instead of being bummed out.

Chrissy
August 8th, 2019, 10:55 PM
@Empty_of _Clouds - No need for double posts here on FPG. Unlike FPN we have a delete option. :) Just click on Edit Post, then check Delete Post at the top of the page then check the box on the right.

Empty_of_Clouds
August 8th, 2019, 11:03 PM
Never noticed that option. Done!

top pen
August 9th, 2019, 05:00 AM
Anyone else thought this was a slightly odd Welcome thread before reading it?

Jason me is back...

Pendragon
August 9th, 2019, 02:20 PM
Anyone else thought this was a slightly odd Welcome thread before reading it?

Jason me is back...

What was a slightly odd Welcome? The 8,535 spam messages in New Members? It is hard to even find the new member posts in there.

If he is back, Jason must enjoy watching everybody bouncing off the walls