Nib collar?

[penmainiac]

So I figured out my 149’s nib collar is missing, is it okay without it?


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[KBeezie]

So I figured out my 149’s nib collar is missing, is it okay without it?



... how is the pen even held together?

Without the collar, the section can't be held onto the pen, and the nib and feed can't be held onto the pen.

https://i.imgur.com/DYk49oM.png

[KBeezie]

PS: If you're talking about a vintage 149 before they did the 2-section barrel (ie: a Single unit barrel) where the grip stays on the barrel, and the nib unit just comes out the front. You still need a nib collar for the nib and feed to be properly set into the section, unless someone did a frakenpen job on it and glued or hacked it in. The nib can't be held properly to the feed without the collar.

[Chrissy]

So I figured out my 149’s nib collar is missing, is it okay without it?


If you mean the flared collar at the end of the section, no it isn't okay without it. That's what is holding the nib unit in and keeping the nib and feed together properly. The pen has to be returned to Montblanc to be fixed. It will cost a level one service charge which is around $80.

Having been careful and seen many pictures and waited over a year to buy a 149 how did you manage to buy one without a collar on it? Can you return it to the seller and get your money back?

[Barry B. Gabay]

Maybe our young pen maniac purchased a 149 from before 1983/84, when the two-piece barrel and flared collar was introduced. Per KBeezie's observation, the maniac may have an older 149 with a recessed collar. If it is an inoperable 149 without a collar, Chrissy's advice is right on target.

So, young man, please post some photos of your 149. All of us here are eager to see it, having advised you through two anticipations of the LA shows. Hope you enjoyed yourself there. How is your semester going?

[penmainiac]

Here are some pictures, as requested, and I have no clue how the pen is being held together, but I suspect some sealant involved, as the pen isn’t leaking or anything, and it writes superbly. i believe the pen is from perhaps the 1980s, as there is a split ebonite feed, might this have anything to do with this mystery? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/35788cf2b6a7fa4eeddd0bb320150191.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/f16fe36529b835d9750ae5670d882ec4.jpg


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[Barry B. Gabay]

Thank you for the photos. The split ebonite feed was used in 1981-82 with the last of the single-piece barrel 149s with their recessed collars. It was used with the two-piece barrel 149s from 1983-84 (with 14C nibs and flared collars) and 1985-90/91 (with 14K nibs and flared collars). So your pen dates within that range, assuming all parts are original. If it's not too much trouble, please send a photo of the nib and of the pen in profile, so we can see if the collar is recessed or missing. Those photos will allow a more specific dating of your 149. If the nib and feed are stable and the pen writes well, likely you have a 149 with a single-piece barrel and recessed collar.

ON THE WAY OUT FOR THE DAY AND RUSHING WITH THIS POST. SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT MY MEMORY IF ABOVE DATES ARE WRONG. ZADDICK, WHERE ARE YOU?

[Chrissy]

It's very difficult to see from those pictures but it doesn't look like a one piece barrel and recessed collar from the first picture. :(

[penmainiac]

Thank you for the photos. The split ebonite feed was used in 1981-82 with the last of the single-piece barrel 149s with their recessed collars. It was used with the two-piece barrel 149s from 1983-84 (with 14C nibs and flared collars) and 1985-90/91 (with 14K nibs and flared collars). So your pen dates within that range, assuming all parts are original. If it's not too much trouble, please send a photo of the nib and of the pen in profile, so we can see if the collar is recessed or missing. Those photos will allow a more specific dating of your 149. If the nib and feed are stable and the pen writes well, likely you have a 149 with a single-piece barrel and recessed collar.

ON THE WAY OUT FOR THE DAY AND RUSHING WITH THIS POST. SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT MY MEMORY IF ABOVE DATES ARE WRONG. ZADDICK, WHERE ARE YOU?

Here is the profile picture.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/a2dfce78b437e80cd50dd31ca6952b4f.jpg


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[penmainiac]

It's very difficult to see from those pictures but it doesn't look like a one piece barrel and recessed collar from the first picture. :(

What specifically is a recessed collar?


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[KBeezie]

It's very difficult to see from those pictures but it doesn't look like a one piece barrel and recessed collar from the first picture. :(

What specifically is a recessed collar?


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If you look at the last picture in this tool ad : https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1950-85-montblanc-meistertuck-149-nib-494596247

The collar sits deeper inside of the grip of a single-unit configuration, and there would be two little notches for the tool to grab it and unscrew it. With the recessed it sits out of view from the section lip.
It does look like what you have, it's there, it's just recessed.

PS: Far as taking pictures (in general) with the phone I assume. Try placing the pen further away from the camera. A focused picture of a smaller view is still much clearer than a close-up that's not in focus.

[penmainiac]

It's very difficult to see from those pictures but it doesn't look like a one piece barrel and recessed collar from the first picture. :(

What specifically is a recessed collar?


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If you look at the last picture in this tool ad : https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1950-85-montblanc-meistertuck-149-nib-494596247

The collar sits deeper inside of the grip of a single-unit configuration, and there would be two little notches for the tool to grab it and unscrew it. With the recessed it sits out of view from the section lip.
It does look like what you have, it's there, it's just recessed.

PS: Far as taking pictures (in general) with the phone I assume. Try placing the pen further away from the camera. A focused picture of a smaller view is still much clearer than a close-up that's not in focus.

Does the recessed collar have anything to do with there being no flare on the grip?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/58da477d88566eecb91ace4e545af66f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/dba0dbdaa5e1fbfaaef6b3613162e232.jpg


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[KBeezie]

Does the recessed collar have anything to do with there being no flare on the grip?

If by flare you mean a metal/gold trim, or other adornments, then you'll notice that even on the modern 149 there is no trim/etc as it's a screw cap (and there's no gold ring under the grip like there is on the 146).

If instead you mean how the section expands/bevels outward shortly at the next of the grip, then yes, the recessed version of the collar, is recessed inside of the grip, so the end of the grip is just straight, as opposed to like the newer 2-section where the plastic trim/bevel on the collar is intended to hold the section to the barrel (like shown in my 1990 149 at the top).

Personally I would prefer the recessed collar as it means there's less likely to get much of a pool of ink on my finger if I hold too close to the nib (though in the newer 149, the trim being wider helps prevent that, compared to other pens), but at the same time, it's more likely that ink can get trapped between the collar and the grip (where as in the newer design, unless you dip past the trim, there's little chance of ink getting between the collar and the grip).

Long story short, it's normal, and you got a little piece of history there. It's also going to be lighter than most current 149s (since from the 90s onward they used brass threaded pistons, making them a tad heavier).

[penmainiac]

Does the recessed collar have anything to do with there being no flare on the grip?

If by flare you mean a metal/gold trim, or other adornments, then you'll notice that even on the modern 149 there is no trim/etc as it's a screw cap (and there's no gold ring under the grip like there is on the 146).

If instead you mean how the section expands/bevels outward shortly at the next of the grip, then yes, the recessed version of the collar, is recessed inside of the grip, so the end of the grip is just straight, as opposed to like the newer 2-section where the plastic trim/bevel on the collar is intended to hold the section to the barrel (like shown in my 1990 149 at the top).

Personally I would prefer the recessed collar as it means there's less likely to get much of a pool of ink on my finger if I hold too close to the nib (though in the newer 149, the trim being wider helps prevent that, compared to other pens), but at the same time, it's more likely that ink can get trapped between the collar and the grip (where as in the newer design, unless you dip past the trim, there's little chance of ink getting between the collar and the grip).

Long story short, it's normal, and you got a little piece of history there. It's also going to be lighter than most current 149s (since from the 90s onward they used brass threaded pistons, making them a tad heavier).

Thank you so much! I am elated as I thought have to order a new collar, $40s worth, and I love this pen. It writes superbly and is amazing. However there seems to be no bezel or anything at all at the end of the section, was this what you meant by straight grips?

[Barry B. Gabay]

That is a very nice fountain pen. The two-tone 14C nib with split-ebonite feed and single piece barrel dates your 149 to a very specific time period. Those features appeared together only in 1981-82. Treat this pen well, and it will last forever. Lubricate the piston if it becomes a bit stiff, and that is the only service it will need, other than flushing with cool water when changing ink colors. Oh yes, do NOT take it to school with you. At the moment, I have four or five 149s with the same components as yours, meaning the same age. All fill & write perfectly. Congratulations on acquiring such a fine model.

KBeezie has given you a good education, and is far more patient than I am.

[FredRydr]

...At the moment, I have four or five 149s with the same components....
<gasp!> Barry, are any coming to Baltimore?

[penmainiac]

That is a very nice fountain pen. The two-tone 14C nib with split-ebonite feed and single piece barrel dates your 149 to a very specific time period. Those features appeared together only in 1981-82. Treat this pen well, and it will last forever. Lubricate the piston if it becomes a bit stiff, and that is the only service it will need, other than flushing with cool water when changing ink colors. Oh yes, do NOT take it to school with you. At the moment, I have four or five 149s with the same components as yours, meaning the same age. All fill & write perfectly. Congratulations on acquiring such a fine model.

KBeezie has given you a good education, and is far more patient than I am.

Thank you, I definitely do not plan taking it to school with me, that would be ludicrous.The pen has some scratches and scuffs (I do not mind the micro scratches) and Mr.FredRydr recommended some 3 stage polish on amazon, would I be safe polishing it?


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[FredRydr]

...Mr.FredRydr recommended some 3 stage polish on amazon, would I be safe polishing it?....
I cannot recall that. I'll have to do a search for my old post - I did and cannot find it. I have recommended a two-stage polish made and sold by Mark Hoover (http://www.lbepen.com) online and at pen shows, but I use it for smooth hard rubber (especially mottled!) and celluloid, which are softer than the hard injection-molded plastic resins of modern Montblanc pens. There is another thread developing here on FPGeeks about polishing Montblanc resin pens.

[penmainiac]

Would you have advice about polishing the nib? The beauty has some scars to it unfortunately.


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[FredRydr]

Would you have advice about polishing the nib?
Use a polishing cloth, not liquid or paste. One of many examples:

http://www.mainstreetpens.com/stuff/sunshine.jpg

[penmainiac]

Would you have advice about polishing the nib?
Use a polishing cloth, not liquid or paste. One of many examples:

http://www.mainstreetpens.com/stuff/sunshine.jpg

Would it harm the engravings on the nib?


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[KBeezie]

Just avoid getting the sunshine cloth too close to the tipping. But yea the sunshine cloth works great for gold, silver, and filled material, but I wouldn't recommend it on any thin plating, and be gentle with it, as the silver colored plating of 2 and 3 tone nibs can come off from the sunshine cloth if it's been worn down a while, but it's certainly a much safer route than trying to use any polishing compounds on it.

The 'safer' way in theory would be a non-abrasive method of using an ultrasonic cleaner (which may not do as well if the tarnish is set in hard), but that would also require getting the nib out of the pen which I do not recommend in this case.

The company that makes sunshine cloth also makes a softer version in a blue color. https://sunshinepolishingcloth.com/store_blue.html

PS: I love the sunshine cloth stuff and I use it for pretty much all my gold/silver/etc polishing needs.

[penmainiac]

Just avoid getting the sunshine cloth too close to the tipping. But yea the sunshine cloth works great for gold, silver, and filled material, but I wouldn't recommend it on any thin plating, and be gentle with it, as the silver colored plating of 2 and 3 tone nibs can come off from the sunshine cloth if it's been worn down a while, but it's certainly a much safer route than trying to use any polishing compounds on it.

The 'safer' way in theory would be a non-abrasive method of using an ultrasonic cleaner (which may not do as well if the tarnish is set in hard), but that would also require getting the nib out of the pen which I do not recommend in this case.

The company that makes sunshine cloth also makes a softer version in a blue color. https://sunshinepolishingcloth.com/store_blue.html

PS: I love the sunshine cloth stuff and I use it for pretty much all my gold/silver/etc polishing needs.

I don’t think it is tarnish on the nib, but rather scratches.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200211/ba0400c21f53c6e68cbf48c8089da40a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200211/0dce7740b29dd70a5982222f63a7831c.jpg


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[KBeezie]

A very light rubbing with it might help, but honestly, I wouldn't get obsessed over it as it is honestly 35+ years old.

But based on the look of some of my nibs that had a light treatment from the sunshine cloth, it did not harm the engravings.

This 1968 14K Falcon nib on my Pilot Super 250 for example is 52 years old, the sunshine cloth does a good job of making it shine, but as you can see it's going to have the micro-scratches (gold is a soft material afterall). Trying to polish every microscratch out over time will course not only wear down the engraving, but it will wear down the silver coloring before that point (which your bi-color nib has), and I already see evidence of that happening on my 2-tone 14K nib of my Sheaffer snorkel from the 50s.

https://i.imgur.com/3Rby6eV.jpg

So for micro-scratches on the gold, I say live with it, it shows it's character of age. But far as shining it up with the sunshine cloth, go for it, just don't try to rub it so much in attempt to get rid of micro-scratches.

[KBeezie]

Far as what the sunshine cloth can do, here's a before-and-after of what I did on a broken Eversharp Skyline from the 40s, the cap being gold-filled, and the nib being 14K gold.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/eversharp/skyline/brown_goldfilled/disassembled_before.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/eversharp/skyline/brown_goldfilled/goldfilled_pair.jpg

(I used other stuff for the plastic polishing).

[penmainiac]

Far as what the sunshine cloth can do, here's a before-and-after of what I did on a broken Eversharp Skyline from the 40s, the cap being gold-filled, and the nib being 14K gold.

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/eversharp/skyline/brown_goldfilled/disassembled_before.jpg

http://static.karlblessing.com/pens/eversharp/skyline/brown_goldfilled/goldfilled_pair.jpg

(I used other stuff for the plastic polishing).

Thanks, this has given me peace of mind and I honestly am starting to think it gives it a bit of character, almost like a battle scar[emoji28]


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[KBeezie]

Thanks, this has given me peace of mind and I honestly am starting to think it gives it a bit of character, almost like a battle scar[emoji28]


Yea almost anyone can get a modern "boring" (lol no offense to half the people here) 149 with the standard nail-like 18K nib, just being a matter of money.

But not everyone is going to have a 35+ year old 149 with a classic 14C nib, and superior feed material (ebonite vs plastic). So if anyone going to start talking smack about light marks, just remind them that it survived the test of time, and not everyone has one like yours. A little visual Wabi Sabi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi) never hurt anything, and sets you apart from all the rest in 'perfect' condition.

All of my pens have 'light marks', some more noticeable than others, and that's just a trait of used pens that are used (rather than sitting as mantelpieces).

https://i.imgur.com/S734gfQ.jpg

[penmainiac]

Thanks, this has given me peace of mind and I honestly am starting to think it gives it a bit of character, almost like a battle scar[emoji28]


Yea almost anyone can get a modern "boring" (lol no offense to half the people here) 149 with the standard nail-like 18K nib, just being a matter of money.

But not everyone is going to have a 35+ year old 149 with a classic 14C nib, and superior feed material (ebonite vs plastic). So if anyone going to start talking smack about light marks, just remind them that it survived the test of time, and not everyone has one like yours. A little visual Wabi Sabi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi) never hurt anything, and sets you apart from all the rest in 'perfect' condition.

All of my pens have 'light marks', some more noticeable than others, and that's just a trait of used pens that are used (rather than sitting as mantelpieces).

https://i.imgur.com/S734gfQ.jpg

Thanks for giving me this assurance.


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[Barry B. Gabay]

Fred: Yes, I'll bring a couple to the Bal'mer Pen Show in just two and a half wks. I thought you had forsaken these giants for your beloved 146s.

Penmaniac: Good call, sir. Leave the 149 at home. Take an inexpensive cartridge-filler to school with you. The superficial scratches from age don't interfere with the pen's performance, but polishing will brighten things up considerably. I agree with the sage Fred Ryder about polishing the nib--cloth only. Some jeweler's pastes can remove the platinum mask, something I learned the hard way years ago.

[penmainiac]

Fred: Yes, I'll bring a couple to the Bal'mer Pen Show in just two and a half wks. I thought you had forsaken these giants for your beloved 146s.

Penmaniac: Good call, sir. Leave the 149 at home. Take an inexpensive cartridge-filler to school with you. The superficial scratches from age don't interfere with the pen's performance, but polishing will brighten things up considerably. I agree with the sage Fred Ryder about polishing the nib--cloth only. Some jeweler's pastes can remove the platinum mask, something I learned the hard way years ago.

I’ve been using my 51 for school, it’s reliable and a vac filler.


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